On April 23 2010 22:53 wentelteef wrote:
TVP 6 proxirax, refinary, then 2 reapers, after 2 reapers you make marauders, p is forced into making stalkers, marauders>stalkers. Is there anything a P can do v this?

Last patch? Probably not.

This patch? Definitly not.

Rabbismitty

United States2 Posts

April 23 2010 17:59 GMT

#342

The only thing I can offer is this. The most effective use of reapers is as a harassment unit. Ergo they will most likely be targeting your supply line. An early forge with a few early photon cannons could save the day. I am not gold or plat, so I bow to your greater play. Just offering my humble opinion. As for other races, spine crawler for zerg and bunker for terran really helps fighting this strat as well, in my opinion. With all that being said the best way to counter reapers is with the terran themselves, again my opinion.

Just a quick edit but I think it goes without saying. You'll want to place the defense either around your supply, or in a place that would cut off their route into your base, remember reapers can't fly only jump up cliff sides.

PanzerDragoon

United States822 Posts

April 23 2010 18:54 GMT

#343

Whats the optimal reaper into Marauder build?

9rax, proxy, , 9 refinery, 11 depot, 2 reapers then transition into marauders, correct?

Aether

Canada123 Posts

April 23 2010 18:59 GMT

#344

There really doesn't seem to be any possible counter for Protoss timing-wise other than super early scouting + cannons which will probably put you way behind and make you super vulnerable to marauder marine transition, probably better to just lose some probes while waiting for the stalker. Obviously Zealots can't do anything against a reaper with the most basic micro and stalkers take too long. Hopefully they do something to delay reapers.

STS17

United States1817 Posts

April 23 2010 19:06 GMT

#345

I have found a slightly different Reaper -> marauder build to be effective.

9 Supply, 11 Rax, 11 gas, 13/14 OC/techlab (generally both go down as soon as rax is finished)

Get second gas while techlab is upgrading, when techlab is finished, begin Reaper Speed asap (begin first Reaper first). Get second Rax as soon as you have the minerals and a second supply as well. At this point you should be able to get 3 Reapers finished right as Reaper Speed is finishing. This allows you to pop workers/rines/lings in one volley and lots in 2 volleys - while having the speed to micro around stalkers and queens.

I can generally get quite a few kills this way while teching to 2 port banshees or getting more barracks for marauders. When executed perfectly it can land 3 marauders in their mineral line around the 6:15 mark while still giving you a decent enough way of defending yourself against most forms of cheese/early aggression.

Entropia

France103 Posts

April 23 2010 19:12 GMT

#346

I don't know if someone already proposed this:

make cliff jumping a research. Easy solution, it will increase the time for the reaper to get in your base and harder microing it.

Yeah I should work for Blizzard, I know :D

STS17

United States1817 Posts

April 23 2010 19:21 GMT

#347

On April 24 2010 04:12 Entropia wrote:
I don't know if someone already proposed this:

make cliff jumping a research. Easy solution, it will increase the time for the reaper to get in your base and harder microing it.

Yeah I should work for Blizzard, I know :D

I hope this isn't a serious post. Without the ability to initially cliffjump, the timing window (i.e. the early game) where the Reaper is useful will be closed before that tech is available to them.

newbcake

United States57 Posts

April 23 2010 19:25 GMT

#348

why even build a reaper now? just build a marauder and kite zealots or kill stalkers. no reaper needed.

NightOne

Canada215 Posts

April 23 2010 19:28 GMT

#349

this thread just keeps coming back... i don't see one about 6 pool ling rush with 400 replies and a bump every 2 hours on it.. this "problem" is already solved with various different openings..

11 gate cyber chrono-zealot stalker, chase reaper around until stalker out
10 gate cyber chrono-stalker
9 gate cyber chrono-stalker
if you are really feeling paranoid 8-gate cyber chrono-stalker..
12 gate cyber chrono zealot chrono-stalker works pretty good too.. out of 7 or so games i've played vs this strat i've only lost one because i wasted chrono on probes instead of getting that stalker out...

Entropia

France103 Posts

April 23 2010 19:46 GMT

#350

On April 24 2010 04:21 STS17 wrote:

Show nested quote +

I hope this isn't a serious post. Without the ability to initially cliffjump, the timing window (i.e. the early game) where the Reaper is useful will be closed before that tech is available to them.

Yes it was serious.
I my vision of the game reaper were supposed to be a harass early game unit, not a cheese unit.

That's my humble opinion.

refraxion

Canada88 Posts

April 23 2010 20:03 GMT

#351

Reapers would be dumb without the initial cliff jumping technique.

Erethorma

United States12 Posts

April 25 2010 15:41 GMT

#352

On April 03 2010 02:40 -orb- wrote:
EDIT: Please someone explain to me how to hold this off in this new replay: http://www.mediafire.com/?uzatmniw2nw

While this doesn't directly pertain to the issue at hand, anyone else getting problems trying to watch the newest replay? I can watch the older ones but this and a few recent ones don't seem to work. :I

fusionsdf

Canada15390 Posts

April 25 2010 17:20 GMT

#353

It seems there is no way to stop this unless you specifically select at the start to choose a build that counters it. For example, fast expanding as terran, with good micro/build I can defend and survive. Against reapers they just come 20 seconds too soon, and it doesnt seem right that I should make a bunch of extra marines (which reapers fucking rape anyways) just on the possiblity of that build.

Reapers would be fine if they were delayed 20 seconds.

Barth95

France18 Posts

April 25 2010 19:31 GMT

#354

Just my 2 cents:
When an early reaper jumps behind your mineral line, I always try to surround it with 5-6 probes before he goes on the "field" (I mean, you can surround him easier when he's close to a cliff). If I don't succeed, I take 4 probes and micro them as well as I can, making 2 of them chasing the reaper and 2 others anticipating his movement. Thus I can harm him, and make him run away to shoot my probes from a distance, which grants me time. I often lose 2, sometimes 3 probes to this early harass but that's not a great loss compared to the cost of the reaper.
The real problems are coming AFTER that (switch to marauders, pushing with 4 or 5 of them, then switching to banshees which my dead stalkers can't really counter).

Johnranger-123

United Kingdom341 Posts

April 25 2010 19:51 GMT

#355

Early reaper builds are easy to repel, just as long as you micro your probes away from his reaper and draw him to the middle of your mineral line you can surround and kill that reaper. chrono boosting your stalker, then getting robo to get immortal (chrono boosted as well) to repel any pressure from marauder.

B_w_S

United States28 Posts

April 25 2010 20:23 GMT

#356

On April 26 2010 04:51 Johnranger-123 wrote:
Early reaper builds are easy to repel, just as long as you micro your probes away from his reaper and draw him to the middle of your mineral line you can surround and kill that reaper. chrono boosting your stalker, then getting robo to get immortal (chrono boosted as well) to repel any pressure from marauder.

This only works if your opponent is either not paying attention or retarded. It would never happen that way in upper level games.

STS17

United States1817 Posts

April 25 2010 20:55 GMT

#357

On April 26 2010 02:20 fusionsdf wrote:Reapers would be fine if they were delayed 20 seconds.

You need to be very careful with statements such as this. The Reaper's strength lies almost solely in the fact that it can perform its harassment before an opponent can retaliate. If you "fix" the Reaper rush by delaying it until the point where your opponent can repel it easily then the unit becomes almost useless in upper level games.

WorkersOfTheWorld

United States619 Posts

April 25 2010 21:01 GMT

#358

On April 26 2010 05:55 STS17 wrote:
The Reaper's strength lies almost solely in the fact that it can perform its harassment before an opponent can retaliate. If you "fix" the Reaper rush by delaying it until the point where your opponent can repel it easily then the unit becomes almost useless in upper level games.

I think this is the short-sighted thinking that just isn't productive in beta. Reapers aren't useless after the 3 minute mark. They still demolish workers as well as structures in a heartbeat. Most players aren't going to load up on static defense if you don't open with reapers, so you are very easily capable of throwing a few reapers into his base while you attack him elsewhere. Not to mention they make exellent scouts and they can kite zealots and zerglings pre-speed upgrade.

Sure, 6supply reapers are scary, but 6 reapers in my base at any point is still scary. Regardless of wether or not i can make units to kill them: i have to actually kill them before they do major damage, and that's not easy when you aren't parked in your base.

refraxion

Canada88 Posts

April 25 2010 21:45 GMT

#359

Yeah reapers are pretty deadly. I've actually been thinking of throwing some into my mid-game to throw off an opponent and hope to pick off as many workers as possible.

Umbrella

Taiwan936 Posts

April 27 2010 04:10 GMT

#360

I have no idea how to stop early reapers in Terran vs. Random and they happen to get Terran. Should I simply start not walling off anymore vs. Random players at all? Help is appreciated.