EPT
PvT- EMP Round humiliation - Page 2
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SoleSteeler
Canada5447 Posts
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-orb-
United States5770 Posts
On March 03 2010 23:32 Hobbes.uhz wrote: By the time he has 3 ghosts, you can have 3 collosus. Then you win head to head vs a bio army, even with EMP. How the hell do you figure? 3 colossi are useless when they get oneshot by his army after the EMP. They'll get off one shot each which isn't nearly enough to decimate the terran army the way their EMP decimates the protoss army. Any good terran will target fire your colossi and if they are EMP'd they will drop like flies. | ||
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Volshok
United States349 Posts
On March 04 2010 00:40 Monokeros wrote: I would love to see a Terran that can get enough vikings that can kill the phoneix's and get to the collossus before their whole army melts. So far the only success I've had vs any toss is going banshees, but usually it's because the toss is doing some kind of silly void ray/templar tech and they dont have collossus anyways (so I would've probably won if I went standard EMP push) Sounds like you are waiting too long before you hit. You want Stim, +1/+1, Combat shield, a M&M mass, then 1-2 ghosts, medivacs, and Vikings. Download CowGoMoo's replay pack. It has numerous instances of this build against top tier players (Artosis, Louder are all I can think off off hand). | ||
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zazen
Brazil695 Posts
On March 03 2010 18:50 Odds wrote: If you can feedback his Ghosts You can't. Best bet seems to be to kill the T before ghosts are out. Tonight I'll be attempting storms in PvT and see how it goes... It was the main reason bio wasn't used in PvT play so it *has* to be at least slightly effective in SC2... | ||
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kasumimi
Greece460 Posts
On March 04 2010 04:00 zazen wrote: You can't. Best bet seems to be to kill the T before ghosts are out. Tonight I'll be attempting storms in PvT and see how it goes... It was the main reason bio wasn't used in PvT play so it *has* to be at least slightly effective in SC2... Storms are great and the completely negate Bio armies assuming your Templars avoid the emps. However a Terran can get Ghosts much much faster than a Toss can get Templars and therefore beat you much earlier with Bio. | ||
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iounas
409 Posts
On March 04 2010 01:09 Volshok wrote: Sounds like you are waiting too long before you hit. You want Stim, +1/+1, Combat shield, a M&M mass, then 1-2 ghosts, medivacs, and Vikings. Download CowGoMoo's replay pack. It has numerous instances of this build against top tier players (Artosis, Louder are all I can think off off hand). CowGoMoo is from blizzard. I just saw a vod talking about emp and feedback at the end.. I think emp is way too powerful.. You can get ghosts before templars.. Emp is aoe and can halve hp of entire protoss army and drain energy as a bonus. There is no way that anybody can pick out ghosts from mm army to do feedback faster than terran can emp.. | ||
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slained
Canada966 Posts
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MeruFM
United States167 Posts
High Templar: 50mineral 150 gas. storm does 80 to anything. The two attacks seem almost paralleled. Just makes both sides realize they can't bunch up their units onto a single hotkey. I mean didn't terran/zerg have this problem the entire time in starcraft 1? I'm sure everyone has seen storms take out entire 200/200 terran armies and massive groups of hydralisks. Now protoss players just have to deal with it as well at least against terran. | ||
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Ych9
Canada39 Posts
On March 07 2010 07:02 MeruFM wrote: I don't get how ghost emp is overpowered. 100mineral 200 gas. Emp does 100 damage to shields + drains all energy. High Templar: 50mineral 150 gas. storm does 80 to anything. The two attacks seem almost paralleled. Just makes both sides realize they can't bunch up their units onto a single hotkey. I mean didn't terran/zerg have this problem the entire time in starcraft 1? I'm sure everyone has seen storms take out entire 200/200 terran armies and massive groups of hydralisks. Now protoss players just have to deal with it as well at least against terran. I believe the problem with EMP is basically that it's undodgeable. Psi Storm, it gives you time to move your army away to minimize the damage. However, EMP is basically an instant AOE 100 damage to Protoss. | ||
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iounas
409 Posts
On March 07 2010 07:02 MeruFM wrote: I don't get how ghost emp is overpowered. 100mineral 200 gas. Emp does 100 damage to shields + drains all energy. High Templar: 50mineral 150 gas. storm does 80 to anything. The two attacks seem almost paralleled. Just makes both sides realize they can't bunch up their units onto a single hotkey. I mean didn't terran/zerg have this problem the entire time in starcraft 1? I'm sure everyone has seen storms take out entire 200/200 terran armies and massive groups of hydralisks. Now protoss players just have to deal with it as well at least against terran. Protoss army is more expensive so easily killing their army puts them in a bad position.. Look that vid 3.40 a group of mm take out a group of zeals, stalkers,immortals, collosus.. and draining energy from sentries and if protoss had ht-s they would also be useless.. basically it works too good and protoss cant counter it.. I have seen some TvP games with decent players using ghosts.. Its very hard to counter them and terran usually wins.. What do you do in that situation against mms.. collosus get raped by vikings.. stalkers suck as antiair, templars get drained, zealots get slowed down by marauders and killed by marines.. | ||
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kasumimi
Greece460 Posts
On March 07 2010 07:02 MeruFM wrote: I don't get how ghost emp is overpowered. 100mineral 200 gas. Emp does 100 damage to shields + drains all energy. High Templar: 50mineral 150 gas. storm does 80 to anything. The two attacks seem almost paralleled. Just makes both sides realize they can't bunch up their units onto a single hotkey. I mean didn't terran/zerg have this problem the entire time in starcraft 1? I'm sure everyone has seen storms take out entire 200/200 terran armies and massive groups of hydralisks. Now protoss players just have to deal with it as well at least against terran. Emp alone is not much overpowered. But the fact that it's, barracks --> ghost academy is too much imo. Being able to get the unit that counters the entire protoss army so early with no research is too match deciding. There was a reason the original Starcraft developers (who are long gone from Blizzard btw) had science vessel on such high tier on SC1 (racks -> factory -> starport -> facility -> reasearch). Similarly, templars are still gate -> core -> citadel -> archives -> research. Also emp is INSTANT and has wider radius than storm. I struggle to beat terrans anymore and if they know what they are doing I feel there's just no chance. I'm not a pro I was C tops on iccup but I lose to 30 apm people who do A-move and click emp from the action bar. | ||
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saritenite
Singapore1680 Posts
On March 07 2010 07:29 kasumimi wrote: Emp alone is not much overpowered. But the fact that it's, barracks --> ghost academy is too much imo. Being able to get the unit that counters the entire protoss army so early with no research is too match deciding. There was a reason the original Starcraft developers (who are long gone from Blizzard btw) had science vessel on such high tier on SC1 (racks -> factory -> starport -> facility -> reasearch). Similarly, templars are still gate -> core -> citadel -> archives -> research. Also emp is INSTANT and has wider radius than storm. I struggle to beat terrans anymore and if they know what they are doing I feel there's just no chance. I'm not a pro I was C tops on iccup but I lose to 30 apm people who do A-move and click emp from the action bar. You make a fair point. From the arguments above, it seems that removing the shields is really detrimental to the Protoss army, so that might be nerfed accordingly, increasing the energy cost or decreasing the amount of shields taken off (let's say to 20, that fair?) But leave the energy drain there, or any Terran will be fucked over by vortex and storm. Speaking as a Terran player, and from what I've seen on Brent's stream, Protoss is utterly difficult to play against because of the durability of their units. And Colossi and any storms that do go off simply tears through the Terran bio army. Go figure. | ||
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Badred
Canada129 Posts
On March 07 2010 07:02 MeruFM wrote: I don't get how ghost emp is overpowered. 100mineral 200 gas. Emp does 100 damage to shields + drains all energy. High Templar: 50mineral 150 gas. storm does 80 to anything. The two attacks seem almost paralleled. Just makes both sides realize they can't bunch up their units onto a single hotkey. I mean didn't terran/zerg have this problem the entire time in starcraft 1? I'm sure everyone has seen storms take out entire 200/200 terran armies and massive groups of hydralisks. Now protoss players just have to deal with it as well at least against terran. In addition to being instant and thus undodgeable as the poster above me mentioned, EMP is also much easier and faster to get than storm. EMP = Barracks (150/0, 60BT) - > Ghost Academy (150/50, 40BT) -> Ghost (100/200, 40BT) = 400/250 and only 150 seconds (2.5 minutes) before you have EMP once you start your barracks. Storm = Gateway (150/0, 65BT) -> Cyber Core (150/0, 50BT) -> Twilight Council (150/100, 50BT) -> Templar Archives (150/200, 50BT) -> Research Storm (200/200, 110BT) -> Templar (50/150, 55BT) = 860/650 and at minimum 325 seconds, or 6 and a half minutes (once you start a gateway), before you can get it. The fact that EMP drains all energy also means if a protoss gets a storm off on a ghost, it can (in addition to shrugging off the storm with 20hp left) shoot an EMP right back, whereas if the ghost gets the first shot off the Templar can't storm back (or do anything, for that matter). I think the obvious solution is to make the EMP field radius smaller, so it effects less units but can still be used to disable storm/clumps of templar/a small number of units. [Edit: Okay, I took so long to post this that "poster above me" is now 4 posts above me, and my whole point got sniped by a few of the folks up there too :p] | ||
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Teejing
Germany1360 Posts
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brocoli
Brazil264 Posts
Also, couldn't they make the archon's shields immune to EMP? SC1 lore stated that EMP works against protoss' shields because of cybernetic elements "start them up", but that isn't the case for archons. Edit: 2nd paragraph | ||
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Khadgars
United States38 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15723 Posts
On March 07 2010 09:19 Khadgars wrote: One thing you are all forgetting to mention is the fact that EMP is completely worthless against Zerg, while Psi storm is extremely effective against all races. The HT is a much more versatile unit, balancing out EMP This is totally irrelevant. Its not like Terran should be balanced around the idea that one skill is useless against one race but INSANELY good against another. A unit should be useful in some sort of situation, that is true. But a unit not being used in one match-up doesn't mean that it should be twice as effective against another race. You are just missing the entire point. The fact is, EMP is completely overpowered against Protoss. That needs to change. Anything about Zerg is irrelevant. | ||
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ooni
Australia1498 Posts
There is ways to counter EMPs now; it's called feedback. Not only that feedback is very useful against zerg casters too. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15723 Posts
On March 07 2010 09:29 ooni wrote: So ppl would like SC1 EMP back? have slight chance to dodge the projectile but removes all shields and energy? There is ways to counter EMPs now; it's called feedback. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4GYoerJVCM Not only that feedback is very useful against zerg casters too. Read the thread before you reply. | ||
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Mazer
Canada1086 Posts
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