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LuDwig-
Italy1143 Posts
On March 03 2010 18:57 Plexa wrote: I think a replay would be very useful in this situation. i don't think so. the op put a very situational condition...why you need replay? ..emp is a big issue for all p, not only for him  | ||
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Sohma
France10 Posts
Feedback on ghost, why not?The problem is that the ghost doesn't stand much in an MMM army xD (hard to spot them right away, unlike templars who are obvious).Of course u get obs on his army to do so and it's unusual for the ran to go raven, but still.... And i'm not too sure of the feedback range compared to the emp range... | ||
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lol_WomensRights
52 Posts
cant possibly imagine how blizzard is going to buff mech to make it viable vs toss (no mines, immortals, no anti air...) and they way its now with bio when slow minded Tosses just learned to actualy abuse their race is unplayable. | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
The only way EMP is imbalanced is if it makes PvT impossible for Protoss. This is actually the opposite of truth. Maybe you meant EMP is boring and the whole matchup revolves around it? That's barely the case either. You still need a nice unit mix to go with your ghosts who are gas heavy and make up only a small portion of the army. It's strong yes; just like storm is strong in BW. In BW Protoss would always include storm in their army against Zerg and it could win the game single handedly. That doesn't mean it's overpowered. All it does is introduce some nice micro and a lot excitement into the match up. AAAAAAHHH EEEMMMPPPP!!! You know it's gonna happen. | ||
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Squallcloud
France466 Posts
http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=jSYAIkrwTJY&feature=related You can see that a bio force with ghost is destroyed by storm. Also the protoss player protected his templar with war prism or just kept them in the back. Both player were pretty evenly matched. So if you ask me EMP isn't overpowered at all. | ||
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willeesmalls
United States477 Posts
On March 17 2010 20:44 Squallcloud wrote: Just saw a PvT on youtube Jump/Predy vs FirstandLast. http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=jSYAIkrwTJY&feature=related You can see that a bio force with ghost is destroyed by storm. Also the protoss player protected his templar with war prism or just kept them in the back. Both player were pretty evenly matched. So if you ask me EMP isn't overpowered at all. I just saw that replay too. Let's keep in mind that the terran (Jump) was a much faster player than FirstandLast. While both are terrific players, I saw terran snipe emp on HT's prior to fights while protoss never snipe feedbacked any ghosts. I think if the players were evenly matched, there would be more ghost kills prior to starting fights. With that aside, I think the match also shows how ridiculous EMP is lategame. Even if you're as good as this toss player, if you mess up once you're almost guaranteed to lose. he had 4 HT's emp'd by a ghost (the terran scanned and found the HT's) and lost his richmineral expo despite having a greater resource army. Terran doesn't need EMP to be this strong, since they CAN fight with infantry army, even vs collosus due to how strong infantry is with stim marauders. EMP is an instant cast, AOE, 75 energy spell that completely negates all spellcasters. The only reason EMP is not useful against zerg is because zerg has no powerful spellcasters. Even if you separated your casters, terran can still drain them all because the spell only costs 75. Solution: if the EMP is going to be AOE and instant cast, make it drain energy of only the targetted unit. You can still negate storm, it would just require more work on the terran's part. 2 full mana ghosts can make 4 full mana HT's useless. It wouldn't just be 2 well placed emp's (extremely easy to do) and protoss army is screwed. | ||
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Sasajoe
Bulgaria46 Posts
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
Stuff like Collossi that rip apart Bio doesn't require any skill and even with extremely well micro, it's hard to win against them. Also, rushing with Warpgates isn't very skilled either. I just wanna say that don't balling up your Units so that 90% of your Army gets hit by one EMP shouldn't be that hard to do. I mean: Send an Observer in front of your Units, don't attack the Terran through small chokes and just snipe the Ghost in advance. ppl just tend to see the effect of a well-placed and poorly avoided EMP but forget that you need a Tech-lab (costs 50/50), a Ghost-Academy (costs 150/50) for one Ghost (that costs 100/200) and then the ghost needs enough energy and you have to place the EMP right and after the EMP is fired, the Ghost is pretty much useless for the amount of ressources you had to spend on him. Also, if Toss just retreats after the EMP is fired, the shields regenerate ridiculously fast and the Spellcasters... well: I don't see many Spellcasters being used against T and jsut don't ball them so hard. Spellcaster are supposed to be strong but fragile; thats why you had to snipe Templars with Mutas, EMP Arbiters/Temlpars or Irradiate Defilers before the big fight or "hide" casters in Shuttles and just drop them directly before casting etc. Stuff like that can be dealt with easily just by playing better, but try to win with Bio against Collos or against a P that reinforces stuff into your base as fast as if you were in HIS base. -.-° | ||
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brocoli
Brazil264 Posts
Sure, you could build a colossus with that robo facility instead of a prism, but the prism increases the effectiveness of colossi (their attack is not cancelled when you pick up a colossus after he starts it), and later it helps the HTs and Immortals. Not to mention it can be used to reinforce your troops in place, making it less necessary to retreat. | ||
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
On March 18 2010 00:52 brocoli wrote: The problem is that I don't see P using warp prisms nearly enough. Sure, you could build a colossus with that robo facility instead of a prism, but the prism increases the effectiveness of colossi (their attack is not cancelled when you pick up a colossus after he starts it), and later it helps the HTs and Immortals. Not to mention it can be used to reinforce your troops in place, making it less necessary to retreat. prism-micro? - that'd be cool! | ||
NonY
8751 Posts
On March 17 2010 04:38 Floophead_III wrote: Never actually played vs it for some reason. I get immortal rushed all day though. If you want to try it vs a couple of my openings we can see how that works out. Actually I have tried it a bit already and feel that it does quite well. But my opponents have not had a chance to adapt to it yet so I am not sure if adaptation is possible. It might be that fast obs is simply a good counter so long as the protoss knows how to follow up | ||
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willeesmalls
United States477 Posts
On March 18 2010 00:52 brocoli wrote: The problem is that I don't see P using warp prisms nearly enough. Sure, you could build a colossus with that robo facility instead of a prism, but the prism increases the effectiveness of colossi (their attack is not cancelled when you pick up a colossus after he starts it), and later it helps the HTs and Immortals. Not to mention it can be used to reinforce your troops in place, making it less necessary to retreat. You can pick up colossi with warp prism? Can you pick up units of massive type? that's insane. Never even tried. | ||
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chocoed
United States398 Posts
On March 18 2010 09:55 willeesmalls wrote: You can pick up colossi with warp prism? Can you pick up units of massive type? that's insane. Never even tried. Yeah. Only one though but still pretty cool. Even the Medivac can pickup Thors. Amazes me how such a small ship can carry a gigantic hunk of metal. | ||
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
On March 18 2010 02:52 Liquid`NonY wrote: Actually I have tried it a bit already and feel that it does quite well. But my opponents have not had a chance to adapt to it yet so I am not sure if adaptation is possible. It might be that fast obs is simply a good counter so long as the protoss knows how to follow up I'm a fan of using marines to snipe that first obs with a scan (or turrets if you're hanging in sight range but out of range.) But I don't believe that's reliable at all. I often don't even notice an obs shimmering around in my base. The thing is... stalkers vs marines/tanks is pretty much like dragoons vs marines/tanks. The difference is you can just blink and snipe tanks, but tanks/marines are more cost effective vs you. I donno how it'd work out but I'd definitely want to investigate it further. I actually noticed a weakness in my openings vs a midgame immortal/sentry/stalker/zealot push that's really heavy on the immortals. It comes just as my econ is kicking in and I think I can survive it with good placement and fast ghosts, but I'm not 100% sure how it'll work out. That's something I'd want to investigate more too. | ||
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morimacil
France921 Posts
A ghost with EMP can remove the shields from an army, effectively bringing the army to half life. A high templar, can storm, effectively killing or bringing a bio army to 10% life. Both are really powerful, but it is hard to say that one is OP, and the other is just fine. About spotting ghosts: Turning on the lifebars make them much easier to spot, if you dont want to turn them on all the time, turn them on using alt. The infantry units with energy are the ghosts  | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
Does anyone know the exact range of the Ghosts EMP and the Vessel? I'm sure the ghost has less range and the ghost is alot more squishy than the vessel ever was. I'm sure if you just keep a close eye on your templar like the terran has to with his ghosts you'll be fine, if you can get a storm off on top of where the ghosts are, that's pretty much a dead ghost and feedback is quite nice for taking them down too. Maybe it just leads to the added flanking effect, if you can hide your templar around the side or to the back, the terran without scouting won't be able to effectively use his ghosts. Just seperate your army up a bit and I think it should be fine. | ||
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Angra
United States2652 Posts
Maybe if they had it slowly drain the shields at the same rate as psi storm drains health? Idk. On March 20 2010 08:15 Qikz wrote: Hm, After playing the past few days, I can't see how EMP would be any different to how it used to be. It's the exact same situation with losing shields but you're only losing it to a man rather than a vessel. Does anyone know the exact range of the Ghosts EMP and the Vessel? I'm sure the ghost has less range and the ghost is alot more squishy than the vessel ever was. I'm sure if you just keep a close eye on your templar like the terran has to with his ghosts you'll be fine, if you can get a storm off on top of where the ghosts are, that's pretty much a dead ghost and feedback is quite nice for taking them down too. Maybe it just leads to the added flanking effect, if you can hide your templar around the side or to the back, the terran without scouting won't be able to effectively use his ghosts. Just seperate your army up a bit and I think it should be fine. EMP is way lower on the tech tree, the unit is cheaper, and it has a lower energy cost to cast in SC2. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
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checo
Mexico1364 Posts
On March 17 2010 23:04 Sasajoe wrote: willeesmalls is completely right either emp should be made avoidable, destroys only one casters energy or feedback should be buffed as an aoe or even both + Huter-seeker missiles should be rodone completely LOL... buff feed back??? it already can kill a ghost on one shot thats 100/200 +build time man come on buff that???? if something make feed back just take 50 energy-75 top so it doesn't cost 300resourses to the T.... | ||
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morimacil
France921 Posts
Here is what I would do to change the situation a bit around: Nerf EMP (more energy, later tech, effect over time, ...) Buff Mech units (making helions more useful past the first few minutes, reducing tank gas cost, making thors good, getting decent AA in mech, ...) Nerf immortal by giving them an upgrade (so they dont destroy mech builds with going immortals right away) - Immortals would be same as now after upgrade, upgrade could be so you get the shield that stops all dmg past 10, or dmg upgrade to armored, or speed upgrade, or range, ... Tah-dah! EMP gets nerfed, but its ok, because terran can do something else than going bio, and so doesnt get destroyed as much by storm, and so doesnt have to rely on emp so much. | ||
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