EPTThe Reaper Issue - Page 3
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Evopanda
United States21 Posts
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MaestroSC
United States2073 Posts
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Aesir.logon
United States7 Posts
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G4MR
United States371 Posts
Pylon 8/10 Gate Pylon Gas Pylon Cyber Gas Robo Gate Twilight Robo Bay Didn't really do a full time build just scouted early right after that first pylon and did a 2 probe build after each building (To save money for the buildings) Now I've won against people who never done a reaper rush. With colossus + stalker combo with a few immortals. (Got Immortals first) Now my new build to tweak it for a fast stalker build is: Pylon 8/10 Gas (As soon as I get 75 after 2 probes) Gate Cyber Pylon Gas Robo Gate Twilight Robo Bay (Colossus upgrades) With this tweaked do you think I'd have a good chance against early reapers? I'd edit it where fit after doing scout (if they go early gas). | ||
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-orb-
United States5770 Posts
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chocoed
United States398 Posts
edit: i do not think they are that OP, but a slight nerf to their demolition attack seems appropriate. | ||
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Haemonculus
United States6980 Posts
On February 23 2010 03:24 -orb- wrote: I tend to think that reapers need to have damage to buildings reduced a bit. You can bring about 8 reapers into a base and kill a nexus in just a couple volleys. It essentially makes it so you can never leave your base with your army even into lategame or you will lose your nexus/all your buildings instantly. I'm torn on that subject. If reaper's damage vs buildings was nerfed too much, they would become obsolete very quickly, probably by mid-game. An easier fix in my opinion would simply be to make their D8 charges require a research. Early game they can still be effective harassers and slaughter workers, but will not be able to 1shot cannons or sunkens. This way you can defend against reaper harasses much in the way you defend against vulture harass. Then later in the game, with those bombs researched, they can perform the role of base raiders, hopping in and killing key structures. Right now they are simply too good of harassers right from the get-go. | ||
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iSiN
United States1075 Posts
 They always seemed like a mineral line harassing unit not a 6 minute game winner. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12027 Posts
On February 24 2010 01:38 iSiN wrote: I feel the 40 damage to buildings is the worst part of them(Too High). If the terran can build up 8 or so reapers they can b line for your base and sac them for a building basically of their choosing They always seemed like a mineral line harassing unit not a 6 minute game winner. Yeah. But 8 reapers for 1 building is a loss for the Terran right? Reapers die so quickly. I don't understand why people are having trouble defending against them. Couldn't if you knew it was coming. Couldn't you just keep a few units back to intercept them before they can get close to your buildings? | ||
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MonkeyMania
United States3 Posts
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Feefee
Canada556 Posts
Also they're not really effective as "worker killers". Again, 8 reapers leave you with nothing at your base, and terrans cannot hold the toss back if he decides to go for a counter. If you take away the threat of losing your base faster than the terran (because reapers kill buildings) you make the reaper 100% obsolete. Not saying it's not OP, just saying they aren't effective for a worker harrass.. 3 stalkers in a mineral line and those 8 reapers are toast. | ||
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FieryBalrog
United States1381 Posts
On February 24 2010 01:42 Qikz wrote: Yeah. But 8 reapers for 1 building is a loss for the Terran right? Not if its your Nexus. | ||
Excalibur_Z
United States12240 Posts
On February 24 2010 04:26 Feefee wrote: Any game that I've seen people go reapers required them to leave their base completely undefended. And stalkers most certainly do not "get raped" by reapers^^;. Against units reapers are just marines (putting aside the fact that they can run away faster). Also they're not really effective as "worker killers". Again, 8 reapers leave you with nothing at your base, and terrans cannot hold the toss back if he decides to go for a counter. If you take away the threat of losing your base faster than the terran (because reapers kill buildings) you make the reaper 100% obsolete. Not saying it's not OP, just saying they aren't effective for a worker harrass.. 3 stalkers in a mineral line and those 8 reapers are toast. Typically when I go for Reapers I'll only build 3 and bring them in. 3 Reapers kills a Probe in a single volley (like 2 vults in BW) and the principle is the same: run to avoid enemy units and focus fire Probes while you do. I find it odd that you say they aren't effective for worker harassment... that's pretty much their designed role, just as it was for Vultures, and nobody would ever say those were bad for worker raids. | ||
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251
United States1401 Posts
On February 24 2010 01:16 Haemonculus wrote: I'm torn on that subject. If reaper's damage vs buildings was nerfed too much, they would become obsolete very quickly, probably by mid-game. An easier fix in my opinion would simply be to make their D8 charges require a research. Early game they can still be effective harassers and slaughter workers, but will not be able to 1shot cannons or sunkens. This way you can defend against reaper harasses much in the way you defend against vulture harass. Then later in the game, with those bombs researched, they can perform the role of base raiders, hopping in and killing key structures. Right now they are simply too good of harassers right from the get-go. I like and agree with this. A research requirement means if you're aiming to do massive structural damage you must invest and time it properly, keeps it a bit delayed from the early game while not rendering them useless from late. If you research and the raid is an utter failure it puts Terran way behind given what they must invest. However given how gas acquisition in SC2 is, I'm wondering how viable it is to start say a 150/150 upgrade and still build 50/50 reapers off 1 base. At that point, it pushes it toward being almost all-inish. Maybe upgrade could be 100/100, but that seems like too much of a bargain...Still more fair than the low low current price of $free.99.  | ||
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brn4meplz
Canada98 Posts
If the 40 dmg vs buildings was with the speed upgrade or even a different upgrade at least you would know the Terran players intentions to continue using reapers at other stages of the game. You wouldn't make the investment into reaper tech unless you had a plan to keep using them | ||
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Feefee
Canada556 Posts
On February 25 2010 01:30 Excalibur_Z wrote: Typically when I go for Reapers I'll only build 3 and bring them in. 3 Reapers kills a Probe in a single volley (like 2 vults in BW) and the principle is the same: run to avoid enemy units and focus fire Probes while you do. I find it odd that you say they aren't effective for worker harassment... that's pretty much their designed role, just as it was for Vultures, and nobody would ever say those were bad for worker raids. Well maybe I just haven't seen it pulled off well enough yet. How many probes do you actually manage to kill against anyone competent? 3-4? Cause without an expansion, and with mineral gathering dying off drastically after the 16th probe I'd say 150minerals + 150gas + speed upgrade for reapers isn't really worth it for killing 3-4 probes. Especially when the only use for reapers becomes killing those initial probes. Late game you can easily cannon up, and if reapers were to do no damage to those cannons they'd become utterly useless. Your vulture analogy stands I admit, but vultures don't cost gas (and gas is even more sparse in SC2 than in SC1) and vultures have mines. | ||
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
On February 24 2010 01:16 Haemonculus wrote: I'm torn on that subject. If reaper's damage vs buildings was nerfed too much, they would become obsolete very quickly, probably by mid-game. An easier fix in my opinion would simply be to make their D8 charges require a research. Early game they can still be effective harassers and slaughter workers, but will not be able to 1shot cannons or sunkens. This way you can defend against reaper harasses much in the way you defend against vulture harass. Then later in the game, with those bombs researched, they can perform the role of base raiders, hopping in and killing key structures. Right now they are simply too good of harassers right from the get-go. Or, make the weapons upgrade increase their damage vs buildings by a significant amount. That way, if you keep up with your upgrades, they can still be good into mid-game (and even into late-game) | ||
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