|
On February 20 2010 04:40 Catch]22 wrote:
People are still too invested in thinking about Terran like in brood war, now a terran contains you early with reapers, and you're like: ZOMG UNPOSSIBLE, MUST BE IMBA.
I'm not saying they are balanced, I'm just saying people jump to the IMBA conclusion waaay too fast.
no, not just contain, DESTROY. Half a control group of reapers is all the terran needs to destroy protoss opponents. They are a combination(I feel) of a sieged tank, a vulture, and a DT. The reaper may become like the vulture in TvP. The new fire vulture units may end up being used less because of how powerful the reaper is. Besides, very few called it imba. Its just unfair since they cost so little and can deal 400 damage seriously fast.
|
Talking about damage, how much do they deal against Buildings?
Edit: nvm, check sc2armory, it's 40, wow. And at the same attack speed that normal fire?
|
Just got rushed by 6 reapers and it cost me the game. any good counters/ways to prepare in TvT?
|
On February 20 2010 06:42 CynanMachae wrote:
Talking about damage, how much do they deal against Buildings?
Edit: nvm, check sc2armory, it's 40, wow. And at the same attack speed that normal fire?
No, attack speed is like half or maybe 1/3
|
On February 20 2010 07:02 zeox wrote:
Just got rushed by 6 reapers and it cost me the game. any good counters/ways to prepare in TvT?
Copy his build until you get stopped, then copy their build, surefire way to improve.
|
Ya, i just got raped PvT by about 12ish reapers myself. Sentry's force field are no good since they can just jump your ramp, zealots get raped, stalkers get raped. I guess stalker with sentry shield bubble? It's definitely going to be finding counter.
|
I think the main problem with reapers might be that they're the only unit that can pass cliffs before tier 2. I don't think a unit should not have such a huge mobility advantage so early in the game.
|
United States24767 Posts
On February 20 2010 11:40 Talith wrote:
Ya, i just got raped PvT by about 12ish reapers myself. Sentry's force field are no good since they can just jump your ramp, zealots get raped, stalkers get raped. I guess stalker with sentry shield bubble? It's definitely going to be finding counter.
I don't think stalkers get raped by them to be honest...
|
I'm so happy to see people thinking the way they did, i mean they don't only said this unit or that hability is OP but instead they said we must find a counter to it. :D
As protoss, i deal with 2 canon for keep them busy for let my stalker get to them and in mid game charge zlot a pretty strong to stop the harras
|
Thinking like SC1, where cannons raped infantry, couldn't you just open up with forge -> nexus vs terran (expand that is) and have 2-3 cannons at each base? it sounds like reapers are quite an investment in tech so if you have cannons (no army) to stop him..? as don't reapers attack bonus vs building need an upgrade? or no?
|
United States24767 Posts
On February 20 2010 14:31 FabledIntegral wrote:
Thinking like SC1, where cannons raped infantry, couldn't you just open up with forge -> nexus vs terran (expand that is) and have 2-3 cannons at each base? it sounds like reapers are quite an investment in tech so if you have cannons (no army) to stop him..? as don't reapers attack bonus vs building need an upgrade? or no?
A strong protoss opened forge cannon cannon at the choke outside their nat and then took a nexus... by the time I got 1 reaper there they had a couple of stalkers...
|
Sweden33719 Posts
On February 19 2010 12:01 zatic wrote:
Reapers are terrible against Zerg. It's almost impossible to hide them and if the Zerg knows they are coming it's no problem at all. Simple speedlings deflect that and after that the Terran sits there with a dead end tech, lots of gas spend and no expansion.
Here is my standard build all against Terran which absolutely rapes reapers:
10 ovi
13 pool
13 gas
15 ovi
15 queen
17 zergling
Kill scout, get zergling speed at 100/100.
You can get away with another round of drones if he is going reapers, they will take a while.
At 100 gas get lair.
When speed is about to finish make like 10-12 zerglings. Keep them hidden so he runs his reapers into your main. Surround, a-move, done.
Get hydra den, expo, and make only hydra and drones. Free win from here, T won't be able to take his nat against the hydra. To attack make a lot of Zerglings again, he might use the addons for marauders.
You think lings are good vs Reapers? :o I've had a loooot more trouble vs zergs who get Roaches if I Reaper rush - I mean vs lings you can actually micro and not take damage. Roaches? You do little damage and get raped in seconds >_<
On February 20 2010 14:31 FabledIntegral wrote:
Thinking like SC1, where cannons raped infantry, couldn't you just open up with forge -> nexus vs terran (expand that is) and have 2-3 cannons at each base? it sounds like reapers are quite an investment in tech so if you have cannons (no army) to stop him..? as don't reapers attack bonus vs building need an upgrade? or no?
Mm, I don't see why you'd even want cannons vs that, unless your plan is to cannon your expo AND your main. Reapers can just jump up cliffs and bypass the cannons at your nat completely otherwise.
White-ra (assuming it's the real one) tried to no gate expo vs me on Desert Oasis and I think it could have worked if he'd had a spotter @ each path to my base, so he could have prepared himself better when he saw my marine/marauder rush coming.
Anyway, I haven't played with reapers much vs protoss or terran really, mostly just vs Zerg.
|
On February 20 2010 15:02 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2010 12:01 zatic wrote:
Reapers are terrible against Zerg. It's almost impossible to hide them and if the Zerg knows they are coming it's no problem at all. Simple speedlings deflect that and after that the Terran sits there with a dead end tech, lots of gas spend and no expansion.
Here is my standard build all against Terran which absolutely rapes reapers:
10 ovi
13 pool
13 gas
15 ovi
15 queen
17 zergling
Kill scout, get zergling speed at 100/100.
You can get away with another round of drones if he is going reapers, they will take a while.
At 100 gas get lair.
When speed is about to finish make like 10-12 zerglings. Keep them hidden so he runs his reapers into your main. Surround, a-move, done.
Get hydra den, expo, and make only hydra and drones. Free win from here, T won't be able to take his nat against the hydra. To attack make a lot of Zerglings again, he might use the addons for marauders. You think lings are good vs Reapers? :o I've had a loooot more trouble vs zergs who get Roaches if I Reaper rush - I mean vs lings you can actually micro and not take damage. Roaches? You do little damage and get raped in seconds >_< Show nested quote +On February 20 2010 14:31 FabledIntegral wrote:
Thinking like SC1, where cannons raped infantry, couldn't you just open up with forge -> nexus vs terran (expand that is) and have 2-3 cannons at each base? it sounds like reapers are quite an investment in tech so if you have cannons (no army) to stop him..? as don't reapers attack bonus vs building need an upgrade? or no? Mm, I don't see why you'd even want cannons vs that, unless your plan is to cannon your expo AND your main. Reapers can just jump up cliffs and bypass the cannons at your nat completely otherwise. White-ra (assuming it's the real one) tried to no gate expo vs me on Desert Oasis and I think it could have worked if he'd had a spotter @ each path to my base, so he could have prepared himself better when he saw my marine/marauder rush coming. Anyway, I haven't played with reapers much vs protoss or terran really, mostly just vs Zerg.
Indeed I was referring to cannon both. This might be a green light for the Terran to expand without hesitation, but it sounded like to me if they are actually GOING reapers (aka they're getting the tech before you cannon), then it's wasted tech due to the static defense. I'd assume very early on you'd only need like 1 cannon at each base vs the first 3-4 reapers? then add a second as they are getting 5-6, and then despite you having 4 cannons you should have some form of units soon after, correct? Keep in mind I don't even have the beta, I was just bored reading this.
|
Sweden33719 Posts
I dunno how good cannons are vs reapers tho... Reapers are EXTREMELY fragile, but they deal 40 damage to buildings... So that's like 1 volley if you have even just a few reapers in your force :S
|
(I am doing a reaper opening every game at the moment and here's what I prevents me from the insta-win early game)
PvT:
Just get stalkers (skip the zealot) and make sure everything you have is powered by more than one pylon (a T can kill a pylon before the first stalker warps in if they feel like sacrificing a reaper). Keep the stalkers at any likely cliff jumping points (AKA mineral line) and just play a tight defense. Then tech up to w/e or do a timing attack, it's pretty much an even game from there on if you can prevent the reapers from doing any damage (which it is possible).
Edit: responding to previous posts: cannons alone are very weak vs reapers. 3-4 reapers can destroy the cannons w/o dying and just move into w/e opening you've left. Microed reapers should not die at all to cannons and will just come back later with full life after the medivacs come in.
TvT: Marauder as fast as possible. The slow will make it so the reapers would have to suicide to actually do anything (which is in your advantage). Also don't bother walling off, it spreads out your base too much making supply depots easy targets and it doesn't prevent the reapers from getting in on the current maps. Then just tech up and you should be at the advantage.
ZvT: Keep your queen near your mineral line, but ready to move out if the reapers are attacking any buildings like your roach warren. A spine crawler or two definitely helps too. Do not bother chasing with lings as you're just going to throw them away and its better to save them until you get speed.
|
Wow I feel like reaper dmg vs building should be a research ability/upgrade (aka reaper bonus dmg vs buildings +25) and have the standard at like 15. But I'll wait to play the game myself first haha..
|
I dont think its a problem with the reaper. Reapers can't do anything if you react fast enough and I think a good fix would be to put the probe lines in the middle of terrain instead of right beside the damn cliff. On the map with 4 spawns and forest terrain, they moved from one cliff on the right side to the one on the topleft faster(circling around) than i did with marauders and marines travelling straight =_=
|
i feel like buildings die faster than units lol.
|
On February 20 2010 16:09 TorcH wrote:
(I am doing a reaper opening every game at the moment and here's what I prevents me from the insta-win early game)
PvT:
Just get stalkers (skip the zealot) and make sure everything you have is powered by more than one pylon (a T can kill a pylon before the first stalker warps in if they feel like sacrificing a reaper). Keep the stalkers at any likely cliff jumping points (AKA mineral line) and just play a tight defense. Then tech up to w/e or do a timing attack, it's pretty much an even game from there on if you can prevent the reapers from doing any damage (which it is possible).
Edit: responding to previous posts: cannons alone are very weak vs reapers. 3-4 reapers can destroy the cannons w/o dying and just move into w/e opening you've left. Microed reapers should not die at all to cannons and will just come back later with full life after the medivacs come in.
TvT: Marauder as fast as possible. The slow will make it so the reapers would have to suicide to actually do anything (which is in your advantage). Also don't bother walling off, it spreads out your base too much making supply depots easy targets and it doesn't prevent the reapers from getting in on the current maps. Then just tech up and you should be at the advantage.
ZvT: Keep your queen near your mineral line, but ready to move out if the reapers are attacking any buildings like your roach warren. A spine crawler or two definitely helps too. Do not bother chasing with lings as you're just going to throw them away and its better to save them until you get speed.
Thanks going to work a build around this. I'm going to try double gate, fast gas stalker build with fast blink upgrade.
|
On February 22 2010 14:13 G4MR wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2010 16:09 TorcH wrote:
(I am doing a reaper opening every game at the moment and here's what I prevents me from the insta-win early game)
PvT:
Just get stalkers (skip the zealot) and make sure everything you have is powered by more than one pylon (a T can kill a pylon before the first stalker warps in if they feel like sacrificing a reaper). Keep the stalkers at any likely cliff jumping points (AKA mineral line) and just play a tight defense. Then tech up to w/e or do a timing attack, it's pretty much an even game from there on if you can prevent the reapers from doing any damage (which it is possible).
Edit: responding to previous posts: cannons alone are very weak vs reapers. 3-4 reapers can destroy the cannons w/o dying and just move into w/e opening you've left. Microed reapers should not die at all to cannons and will just come back later with full life after the medivacs come in.
TvT: Marauder as fast as possible. The slow will make it so the reapers would have to suicide to actually do anything (which is in your advantage). Also don't bother walling off, it spreads out your base too much making supply depots easy targets and it doesn't prevent the reapers from getting in on the current maps. Then just tech up and you should be at the advantage.
ZvT: Keep your queen near your mineral line, but ready to move out if the reapers are attacking any buildings like your roach warren. A spine crawler or two definitely helps too. Do not bother chasing with lings as you're just going to throw them away and its better to save them until you get speed. Thanks going to work a build around this. I'm going to try double gate, fast gas stalker build with fast blink upgrade.
Torch is not quite accurate. If you do a proper 1 gate cyber your pylon will not die before that stalker is out. Also you really don't need to 2 gate stalkers with blink (which is not very useful early on). I strongly suggest at least getting a robo over the twilight unless you're planning on moving into DTs.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
