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On January 24 2013 08:11 iamcaustic wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 22:21 SiskosGoatee wrote:On January 23 2013 22:10 iamcaustic wrote:On January 23 2013 21:05 SiskosGoatee wrote:On January 23 2013 18:35 iamcaustic wrote:I simply have no idea how this map is going to turn out. There are parts in the layout I love and parts I really don't like. On January 21 2013 23:39 Sumadin wrote:On January 21 2013 21:58 algue wrote:I really think this map needs one more base below the third but I still like it  How did i miss that? Yea 4.5 bases per player is... a questionable decision. And even then 1 of the bases for each player is centered thus practically impossible to secure. Even on Ohana with 5 bases per player the low number of bases have been a frequent problem, even without centered bases. What are they thinking exactly? Suddenly i am not too sure about this map. Eh? The number of bases on Ohana isn't a problem at all. What on earth would give you this idea? It's personal, it is a problem to me. I don't like it, I often get mined out on Ohana. It's one of my least liked maps for a number of reasons, one being the amount of bases. Together with the extremely linear expansion progression. THis is what I liked more about Korhal Compound though I would not mind 2 centre half bases added to the map on the lowground. But his fifth could also be your fourth or even third. Same with Dual Sight, it wasn't clear which gold was whose, it adds something interesting when you can expand both ways. To put it like this, any map good for mech is a bad map in my opinion because it encourages turtly play and discourages multi pronged aggression and doesn't have a lot of bases, which is of course something that enables mech. The map is pretty basic and straightforward for sure, but most games don't even get to mining out 5 bases, if you're even lucky to reach 5 bases in the first place. Saying you often get mined out on Ohana is either an extreme exaggeration or your opponents never attack you for some reason. Maybe you mine out 3 bases and have a hard time taking a 4th/5th, but that's very different from mining out the map. 5 bases provide enough resources to get you hour-long games, it's just a matter of collecting all the resources. I beg to differ, I get mined out because I attack a lot and force a lot of engagements and thereby keep losing units. IT's nt an exaggeration, I'm very comfortable playing a 90 SCV or 110 probe/drone game and Ohana leaves me mined out. As far as progamers go, they adapt to Ohana, they tend t play styles that get mined out less quickly because you expand slower with it, mech and other related deathballish styles like BL/Infestor are quite popular there simply because the map doesn't give you the amount of bases for proper muta/ling/bane which requires you to expand more quickly and rely on the mobility of your army to defend. 5 Base Zerg is pretty much required for good muta/ling/bane ZvT. Personally, I think all those deathballish and passive playstyles are extremely boring to watch which is sort of what a low expo game forces. Forgive me, but I'm highly skeptical of your claims. Do you have a few replays you could share? I'm genuinely curious how someone could mine out Ohana on a consistent basis, namely the style of play involved that doesn't have their opponent tap out before that point. Anyway, if you're willing, just shoot me a PM as I don't wanna derail this thread any further. Well, since SC2Gears does not allow you to search for those things, I fo course cannot provide you. I also don't see this as being of topic at all with respect to this map, we are discussing if 5 bases per player is too few or not. Muta/ling/bane play very commonly sees Z take 5 bases. You also very rarely see it on Ohana because it's not that good there, in no small part because you need to take the map to take it work and there's not a lot of map to take on Ohana.
I'm sure there are a lot of people that don't find those kind of playstyles exciting, but I do and they require a high amount of bases to work, one of the reasons it is very popular on TDA. So in my [i]personal opinion[/í] 5 bases is not enough.
As far as my own play goes, like I said, I tend to go a bit bonkers on the worker count and I'm very comfortable playing at 100+ workers which also makes Ohana not fun on me to play. Which is a different issue from that I don't like the professional matches on them because it forces mech, BL/Infestor turtle etc.
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So if I understand correctly, despite the claim that this issue is common for you, you are unable to provide any example of this occurrence. All right then, I suppose there's nothing left to talk about there.
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Of course I can't provide a replay if SC2Gears doesn't allow me to search on it, you expect me to go through every game I played on Ohana on 8x to see if it's mined out?
I'm sure it's a common occurence for you to get a flock of phoenices chain fungalled above a Zerg third on Daybreak, could you provide me a replay of that?
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On January 24 2013 13:34 SiskosGoatee wrote:
Of course I can't provide a replay if SC2Gears doesn't allow me to search on it, you expect me to go through every game I played on Ohana on 8x to see if it's mined out?
I'm sure it's a common occurence for you to get a flock of phoenices chain fungalled above a Zerg third on Daybreak, could you provide me a replay of that?
You said it happened often. Just take a quick look at the game length of 5 to 10 Ohana replays and you should be able to find at least one (should be at least 40 mins or more in a mined out game). Or are you now saying it's not as common as you claimed before?
I mean, if you're just bullshitting everyone again like you usually do then that's fine; just say so. No hard feelings man, you have no obligation to appease me.
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On January 24 2013 14:19 iamcaustic wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 13:34 SiskosGoatee wrote:
Of course I can't provide a replay if SC2Gears doesn't allow me to search on it, you expect me to go through every game I played on Ohana on 8x to see if it's mined out?
I'm sure it's a common occurence for you to get a flock of phoenices chain fungalled above a Zerg third on Daybreak, could you provide me a replay of that? You said it happened often. Just take a quick look at the game length of 5 to 10 Ohana replays and you should be able to find at least one (should be at least 40 mins or more in a mined out game). Or are you now saying it's not as common as you claimed before? Okay, let's say this happens in 1/10 games for me on OHana, which is actually quite close to the truth. You cannot expect me to 8x 10 Ohana 40 minute replays on average to find this one replay. It takes 5 minutes to 8x a 40 minute replay, that's 50 minutes of time for 10, ignoring startup and load time of replays. That's just too much time.
I mean, if you're just bullshitting everyone again like you usually do then that's fine; just say so. No hard feelings man, you have no obligation to appease me. Again, I'm sure it's quite common for you to get your phoenices fungalled over the third on daybreak, find me a replay of that. It''s also quite common for me and I can't produce a replay of that, it's too much work.
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On January 24 2013 14:29 SiskosGoatee wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 14:19 iamcaustic wrote:On January 24 2013 13:34 SiskosGoatee wrote:
Of course I can't provide a replay if SC2Gears doesn't allow me to search on it, you expect me to go through every game I played on Ohana on 8x to see if it's mined out?
I'm sure it's a common occurence for you to get a flock of phoenices chain fungalled above a Zerg third on Daybreak, could you provide me a replay of that? You said it happened often. Just take a quick look at the game length of 5 to 10 Ohana replays and you should be able to find at least one (should be at least 40 mins or more in a mined out game). Or are you now saying it's not as common as you claimed before? Okay, let's say this happens in 1/10 games for me on OHana, which is actually quite close to the truth. You cannot expect me to 8x 10 Ohana 40 minute replays on average to find this one replay. It takes 5 minutes to 8x a 40 minute replay, that's 50 minutes of time for 10, ignoring startup and load time of replays. That's just too much time. Show nested quote +I mean, if you're just bullshitting everyone again like you usually do then that's fine; just say so. No hard feelings man, you have no obligation to appease me. Again, I'm sure it's quite common for you to get your phoenices fungalled over the third on daybreak, find me a replay of that. It''s also quite common for me and I can't produce a replay of that, it's too much work.
You have really weird logic. I only said to look at 5 to 10 replays to find one that was over 40 minutes. I'd be surprised if you could offer 5 to 10 of your replays on Ohana that moved past the 40 minute mark. If you can find that many, send them my way and I'll do the sifting for you. No time or effort on your part.
I'm also not sure why you keep on bringing up phoenixes and getting them fungalled over the third on Daybreak. Nobody's trying to prove that it's a common occurrence -- well, I guess you are in this case, but that means you'd have to provide the replays to make the case, not me. This is a very basic principle of logic known as burden of proof, but given your overall disdain for basic logic thus far I'm not overly surprised you're having a hard time with the concept.
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By the way everybody,  HuK vs  Sniper in a few hours, opening on Icarus in Code S. Can't wait!
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On January 24 2013 15:06 EatThePath wrote:By the way everybody, HuK vs Sniper in a few hours, opening on Icarus in Code S. Can't wait!
That's gonna be a sick game. I'm really curious to see how more games on Icarus play out.
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Well, this map already brings interesting new openers.
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The map seems to generate some really interesting games in the GSL thus far and players do seem to pick it a lot even though it's unique. Good map I feel, too early to talk about balance but it does spice the game up.
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i love this map! such awesome games
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Nestea picking it without ever playing it was the saddest thing ever... Wish he would have advanced.
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On January 31 2013 19:48 SiskosGoatee wrote:
The map seems to generate some really interesting games in the GSL thus far and players do seem to pick it a lot even though it's unique. Good map I feel, too early to talk about balance but it does spice the game up.
Pretty much all the games on it have been retarded. This is not where maps should go.
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On February 01 2013 00:29 lorestarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 19:48 SiskosGoatee wrote:
The map seems to generate some really interesting games in the GSL thus far and players do seem to pick it a lot even though it's unique. Good map I feel, too early to talk about balance but it does spice the game up. Pretty much all the games on it have been retarded. This is not where maps should go.
I havn't really been able to follow GSL lately, could you give me an Update? What are the issues in the games?
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United Kingdom12024 Posts
On February 01 2013 00:29 lorestarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 19:48 SiskosGoatee wrote:
The map seems to generate some really interesting games in the GSL thus far and players do seem to pick it a lot even though it's unique. Good map I feel, too early to talk about balance but it does spice the game up. Pretty much all the games on it have been retarded. This is not where maps should go.
The one today was fine.
The issue with the games is as players are seeing this as a gimmick mmap, they don't seem to be bothered to practice on it as it forces them to play differently to the other maps. It makes the game look bad so once again interesting maps get bad mouthed by the community, just because the map is slightly different.
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I don't see how they wouldn't have practiced on it, you're seeing some highly specific strats that only work on this map and are clearly practiced.
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United Kingdom12024 Posts
Sorry, that was a bad choice of wording on my part. I apologise for that.
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On February 02 2013 04:32 Barrin wrote:double bad choice of wording This map is on the fringe... it could hardly be more different. It's actually barely on the fringe, I'd call it wonky tbh. It does give interesting maps a bad name.. we're supposed to get there slowly. Adding this map to the GSL at this point in time is what I would do if I wanted to encourage shunning of "different" maps in the future. Like a kid tentative to learn to swim, dipping his feet in the pool for an hour or two... and then doing a dive bomb in the deep end. If he almost drowns, who can blame him for not wanting to be anywhere near a pool of water for a while?
I whole-heartedly agree with this statement.
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On February 02 2013 04:32 Barrin wrote:double bad choice of wording This map is on the fringe... it could hardly be more different. It's actually barely on the fringe, I'd call it wonky tbh Ehh, I'd refer that stuff to things like Arkanoid, this is still fairly good.
It does give interesting maps a bad name.. we're supposed to get there slowly. Why? It's a good map, it's been readily picked already by players of all 3 races. How often does that happen? That otherwise only seems to happen with Daybreak, CK and Antiga. And well, apparently Bogus likes Whirlwind in TvZ, bogus man.
Adding this map to the GSL at this point in time is what I would do if I wanted to encourage shunning of "different" maps in the future.
Like a kid tentative to learn to swim, dipping his feet in the pool for an hour or two... and then doing a dive bomb in the deep end. If he almost drowns, who can blame him for not wanting to be anywhere near a pool of water for a while? I'd add two of these, this has been the best thing happening to the GSL map pool in a looooong time.
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EPT
