|
Keep our forum clean! PLEASE post your WIP melee maps in this thread for initial feedback. -Barrin |
On July 29 2013 13:45 skdeimos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 13:32 moskonia wrote:
@skedimos, the 3rds look pretty hard, and in that sense the map reminds a lot of Planet S, including the corner bases as well. The main difference between that map and your is the middle. The middle reminds a lot of Daybreak, although even only in the middle there are noticeable differences, although the core principle remains which is there are very strong choke points.
I think that Zerg will be pretty imbalanced here because of openness combined with the specific choke points, which makes me want to see one of the 3rd bases become easier while keeping the general form of the map the same. Either that or choke some areas a lot more. Hm. I agree that the third is probably too hard for PvZ. I have two potential options to change that. One is to put rocks on the back ramp to the third to choke it up more. The other is to extend the third platform farther towards the nat choke. I'll try doing both and see if that's too much, I think. Oh, and the area in front of the nat/vertical third needs to be choked up more. I'm looking into potentially redesigning the center to facilitate that. Thanks for the input! ^^
A couple more options:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/m2FnvZl.jpg)
|
your Country52797 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/KMRQmH3.jpg)
148x144
natural expansion is not quite the way I like it, as it seems too small, anything else?
|
The_Templar: Where is the main?
|
your Country52797 Posts
bottom left and top right corners
|
So i was thinking, but I have to ask, why have such weird main? backdoor + flat choke means aggression is so much stronger here than on a normal main. Besides the entrances you have such an enormous side to the main for blink.
I would just like to hear your reasoning for all of these weird features, do you believe blink all ins in every match-up won't be imbalanced? I think that having a ramp is a must because of at least PvP and to some extent ZvZ.
This is of course considering you have placed thought on the map instead of throwing features and seeing how they turn out. While the latter option is fine, feedback will be useless on it, that is why I assume the 1st option is the correct one.
|
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/cOnOS3T.jpg)
Been awhile.
Map size is 176 x 176. There are a few issues I have, specifically with the location of the bases I have marked.
Any and all feedback would be appreciated.
|
On July 29 2013 11:28 skdeimos wrote:![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/uw53BWd.jpg) Updated. Fixed the tankable natural and enlarged the main/moved resources in the main to open up space.
If you fix a few proportioning issues, this will be an excellent map.
|
On July 30 2013 13:31 Syphon8 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 11:28 skdeimos wrote:Updated. Fixed the tankable natural and enlarged the main/moved resources in the main to open up space. If you fix a few proportioning issues, this will be an excellent map.
Thanks!  Any advice for fixing said proportioning issues? Like I said, I'm new at this, it's my second attempt at a competitive 1v1 map.
Here's the current iteration, by the way:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zz4PMY5.jpg)
|
I like it! i think you can start the aesthetics now, just check the ground distance (normally it is measured by time it takes the worker to travel) to be normal and ur good to go.
|
Some areas are too chokey, others not chokey enough. I'd extend the ramps in the middle, and make the mains more concave. Also a bit more room behind the middle bases min lines for turrets, and the areas around the top left and bottom right just sort of feel unnatural.
|
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/CDvSdXg.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/y5QOAER.png)
Aesthetic change (still WIP) only, but some feedback on balance would be nice this time around. Thirds maybe too hard?
|
Current iteration:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/BSNnNnW.jpg)
I extended the center highground plateaus to try and choke off the area in front of the natural. This makes the 3/9 bases no longer viable as thirds for Z in ZvP, because that high ground will be an incredibly strong staging point for attacks on that base. I do, however, think that this makes it a much more interesting base lategame. They can be hit from the center highground plateaus but the attacker must fight down a 3-width ramp, or skirt around and attack from a side path down a 4-width ramp; however, the bounce distance is nonexistent for the defender and rather long for the attacker. I think this creates an interesting dynamic lategame and I want to explore it further with collapsible rocks if someone will tell me how to use them  I also rearranged the 5/11 lowgrounds because I felt that having that large open area was unnecessary.
Any further advice? I'm beginning to feel that I've finally started to hit upon the right execution for the multiple-unconnected-high ground plateaus idea that I was going for.
Feedback for Coppermantis: Third is too hard for Z, it'll require a lot of creep spread to get to the third. The center is pretty boring. I feel like you've narrowed off some of the paths across the center too much, as well.
|
your Country52797 Posts
|
@coppermantis: Really awkward middle that will be hard to play in with the doodad obstructions and chokiness. The 3rd is pretty difficult but I like the concept of it and the routes on the map. I would redesign the middle to avoid flat-and-open with something taking up space syndrome. You have another cliff level to use. Maybe integrate a low ground and some ramps into the center of the map. You could combine this with adjusting the distance/shape of the nat to 3rd pathway so that it keeps the concept but is less demanding. Right now it's so open to even get there, and then there are 3 entrances (one of which is quite big) so even if you secure that area you can't easily defend it which seems to defeat the purpose of the long indirect pathway with a narrow part.
@skdeimos: I like the newest version a lot. The middle bases are really interesting now, and the 3rd is much more reasonable. Still hard, but lots of opportunities for good defense with walls/positioning.
@templar: #1 too big and open. could be 75% the size. #2 same.
#3 bases are too clustered. really easy 4 bases. then a bunch of big open areas between the two sides. this is a pattern with you. I would work on connecting the sides of the map with routes instead of installing landforms on top of flat ground.
#4 better! The main is a little big and far from natural (creep). I fear the 3rd bases might be too close for push distance and there isn't a good alternate. (Might be hard ZvT.) Should add another set of ramps to the middle I think. Corner 4th is kind of huge and open. I think you can take some of that space and add another base to the map. The 6/12 bases are awkwardly close to opponent or quite awkward 4th. But some adjustments and I really like where this map is going.
#5 double entrance open natural like it's 1999. never gonna work. too open in the early game, then chokey and compact for bases 4 and 5. If the whole thing was redistributed into the bottom half more, it'd be alright. Still, just another mirror 2p, I wouldn't pursue this.
|
|
|
On August 02 2013 03:12 EatThePath wrote:![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/BgcbLHD.jpg)
How long is the main ramp>>backdoor and do you have a chance to scout a 6pool and still block it, even with your workers? I do like the idea that when you block it you put the gold expantion further away from you.
|
On August 02 2013 03:16 TheFlexN wrote:How long is the main ramp>>backdoor and do you have a chance to scout a 6pool and still block it, even with your workers? I do like the idea that when you block it you put the gold expantion further away from you.
About 140, comparable to most maps. Main2main is 170ish, but that's the CC spot.
|
Coppermantis:
I like the theme a lot. Blink all ins are potent, but defendable as far as I can tell. Natural might be a bit too easy to hold, as the ramp is tight and is very close to the command structure (photon overcharge and SCV pulls might be just too much). Additional expansions are a bit tough to get, but attacking forces have significantly longer bounce distance than the defender. Middle might be a bit too choky. I like multiple attack and counter attack routes.
Skadeimos:
Very good layout. My only concern is that corner bases can be harassed and sieged from the high ground. Other than that, it's a good job.
The_Templar:
1: There is a reason why backdoors to main bases are gone. It is too crucial to hold them. Also, that high ground over the main makes blink stalkers too strong, as they can have high ground advantage over the defender while denying mining. The low ground third\fourth can be harassed and sieged from the adjacent high ground. The middle is very open and boring. Island expansions are very Terran favored, too.
2: Blink stalkers can blink from every direction into the main. Low ground third and fourth is very open. High ground fourth can be sieged very very easily. Middle is very choky while the area between it and the 8\2 o'clock bases is very open.
3:Three points that need to be walled of and a huuuuge backdoor to the natural.Also, a lot of blink space. The middle is somewhat good, though. Fourth is too easy. I would remove the ramp leading straight to it from the natural and put destuctible rocks at that way from main\nat to the potential third.
4. Two very small chokes to the natural seem excessive. One medium one is a standard. Also, the third is very easy to defend from normal attacks, but is also very very easy to harass from the low ground.
EatThePath:
Starting with an open backdoor to your main is just no. No. Both thirds, the normal one and the mineral wall one, can be easily sieged from the high ground , meaning there is very little defenders advantage. Additional bases are night impossible to hold, both becouse of the distance and how important the high grounds are on this map. Securing one of the high grounds leaves your other bases wide open for drops and counters. This would be a neat BW map AFAIK, as zone control units were much better in there.
My need for feedback:
+ Show Spoiler +
I just don't have afflatus for 3\9 o'clock sides of the map. Seeking advices.
|
your Country52797 Posts
I can't tell what's going on in that map Lt_Hargrove, but it looks like a lot of the map will be too open.
|
So I decided to go full retard and combine concepts from Korhal Floating Island, ATTx's Colosseum, and the BW map Waiting to Panic in one giant mash-up of imbaness.
Spawns are in the corners. Since your nat is going to get harassed a lot, I tried to compensate by increasing the resources in the main to 1.5 times their normal value. But then, it was more convenient to use 9 minerals rather than 8 to block the passages at the nat, so then I moved one mineral from the main to the nat. Plus, I wanted the nats to mine out faster so the center passages could be used.
The end result: 11m3g mains with the standard 1500 minerals per patch, and 9m2g nats with only 1000 minerals per patch. (The thirds, surprisingly, are normal.)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/cA8uK8i.jpg)
Even more stupidly imba version with center high ground - the one advantage of this is that P can't warp units across the minerals into the center:
+ Show Spoiler +
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/XnqUOIG.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/GE2UhJW.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/PgOIk04.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/sf1KRVB.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tns87qL.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://s1184.photobucket.com/user/Lt_Hargrove/media/Remnants%20of%20Antiga/Layout_incomplete.png.html)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/WjJAHoI.jpg)
