|
Keep our forum clean! PLEASE post your WIP melee maps in this thread for initial feedback. -Barrin |
On July 26 2013 13:35 reps)squishy wrote: I notice there are insane amount of 2 player maps few 4 player maps what about good ole 3 player maps like tau cross...
Well I made this not that much more than a week or so back.
+ Show Spoiler +
I don't feel like its finished though, but lack of playtests.
|
Here is my new map;
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tbQUMOh.jpg) (textures for clarity only)
the playable bounds are 158x124
tell me what ya think
|
your Country52797 Posts
main-to-main path is too long unless you break the center rocks, and the side paths are so far from the center it makes only one path to the opponent's base viable with a 2 base push, the rocks just slow it down. The center third is really close to the edge of a threatening cliff meaning that air/drops are powerful there and the other third is really easy to harass because it's so close to the natural by air but so far by ground, even when the other rocks are broken. The mains are too small also. just my two cents.
|
ok, thanks. here is the updated version:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2q0pTSd.jpg) i moved third number one away from the gap, changed the middle path, increased the size of the main, and shrunk third number 2 and made it easier to move from it to the nat.
|
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/YK5dpEZ.jpg)
Looking for some opinions on the layout before I do aesthetic work. Too open? Too many chokes? I was trying to make a contrast between very choke-heavy areas and very open areas, so that certain races are always trying to force fights at certain locations. Pretty new at this, so general tips would also be nice.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/e1cACqo.png)
Oh, and I'm planning to place collapsible rocks here for a Ravage-esque sort of way to deny bouncing between the ramps at the third. One problem, I can't figure out how to place them, because whenever I choose collapsible rock towers in the destructibles tab nothing shows up when I click. If someone could explain to me how to place those rock towers, that'd be awesome :D
|
On July 28 2013 16:10 skdeimos wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Looking for some opinions on the layout before I do aesthetic work. Too open? Too many chokes? I was trying to make a contrast between very choke-heavy areas and very open areas, so that certain races are always trying to force fights at certain locations. Pretty new at this, so general tips would also be nice. + Show Spoiler +Oh, and I'm planning to place collapsible rocks here for a Ravage-esque sort of way to deny bouncing between the ramps at the third. One problem, I can't figure out how to place them, because whenever I choose collapsible rock towers in the destructibles tab nothing shows up when I click. If someone could explain to me how to place those rock towers, that'd be awesome :D
I see two problems, The major one: Mains are too small, terran will have a hard time building anything on this map.
The minor one: Some of the patches in the natural seem to be siegable from the third, but not too sure.
|
On July 28 2013 16:35 HaRuHi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 16:10 skdeimos wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Looking for some opinions on the layout before I do aesthetic work. Too open? Too many chokes? I was trying to make a contrast between very choke-heavy areas and very open areas, so that certain races are always trying to force fights at certain locations. Pretty new at this, so general tips would also be nice. + Show Spoiler +Oh, and I'm planning to place collapsible rocks here for a Ravage-esque sort of way to deny bouncing between the ramps at the third. One problem, I can't figure out how to place them, because whenever I choose collapsible rock towers in the destructibles tab nothing shows up when I click. If someone could explain to me how to place those rock towers, that'd be awesome :D I see two problems, The major one: Mains are too small, terran will have a hard time building anything on this map. The minor one: Some of the patches in the natural seem to be siegable from the third, but not too sure.
Hm. I can definitely shift around the main's mineral line orientation and move the third away from the main a bit so as to extend the main horizontally. As for the tanks, I just tested it, and yes they can hit the natural's mineral line. I'll fix that asap, thanks for the input
|
On July 23 2013 07:07 And G wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I don't think I'll be making any more significant changes to the layout. It looks reasonably balanced to me now.
Actually I thought about this some more, and I feel the main/nat/third layout makes more sense on a bigger map, so I made the center wider and added a few more bases:
+ Show Spoiler +
New playable size is 184x128. I think there is now a good mix of open spaces and chokes, and I'm also happier with the distances, especially nat2nat. There are no towers since I didn't feel they were necessary. Also, it is possible to wall off completely on the bottom of the ramp with two 3x3 buildings or with pylon+gateway+zealot. The narrow lanes along the edge of the map can be blocked with a 3x3 building at their diagonal sections, but not with a forcefield.
Comments?
|
On July 28 2013 19:18 And G wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 07:07 And G wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I don't think I'll be making any more significant changes to the layout. It looks reasonably balanced to me now. Actually I thought about this some more, and I feel the main/nat/third layout makes more sense on a bigger map, so I made the center wider and added a few more bases: + Show Spoiler +New playable size is 184x128. I think there is now a good mix of open spaces and chokes, and I'm also happier with the distances, especially nat2nat. There are no towers since I didn't feel they were necessary. Also, it is possible to wall off completely on the bottom of the ramp with two 3x3 buildings or with pylon+gateway+zealot. The narrow lanes along the edge of the map can be blocked with a 3x3 building at their diagonal sections, but not with a forcefield. Comments?
Interesting layout, but you can't do any real pushes as the chokes are tighter than those of red city
|
On July 27 2013 09:21 Dellron wrote:ok, thanks. here is the updated version: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2q0pTSd.jpg) i moved third number one away from the gap, changed the middle path, increased the size of the main, and shrunk third number 2 and made it easier to move from it to the nat. i don't get it, is my map really that bad? no one has anything to say about it?
|
On July 29 2013 01:22 Dellron wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 09:21 Dellron wrote:ok, thanks. here is the updated version: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2q0pTSd.jpg) i moved third number one away from the gap, changed the middle path, increased the size of the main, and shrunk third number 2 and made it easier to move from it to the nat. i don't get it, is my map really that bad? no one has anything to say about it?
not really, theres just a lack of feedback per posts in this thread usualy. as for your map, the natural choke looks wide, aswell as the rocks. then theres the rush distance, I think the map is a little to small. and the chokes in the middle are a little to small to ever engage a defensive position in lategame.
|
skdeimos: Good layout overall, but the space between the natural and 3rd is too open - it'll be too hard for P to secure the 3rd vs Z. Either narrow this gap or add an obstacle in the middle of that area.
Dellron: I like the contrast between open areas and chokes here, but it needs some refining. The 3rd is too open for P, and I don't think there's a quick fix here - you'll have to just adjust all the surrounding terrain to create some good wallable/FF-able chokes. On the other hand, the bridges in the center are so narrow that Z will probably never want to attack through them in the late game. The natural ramp looks like a width 4 ramp, which is too wide - 3 is standard and 2 might even be better here, due to the large backdoor. And the pairs of bases in top left/bottom right are way too close - you basically have 2 bases in one, and if you lose one you're going to lose the other.
Latest update:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TC7C0JW.jpg)
-Added rocks on 3rd ramps -Shrunk 3rd backdoors slightly -Shrunk side ramps to high ground pods to 1 width - these can't really be used for full army movement anymore (I might still remove the ramps completely) -Added a few more little gaps around the main - blinking in is still possible but you have to control the stalkers well to ensure they don't get stuck outside -Added LoS blockers to (sort of) replace the original BW version's high ground ridges
I might increase the width of the bridges in front of the nats if the map turns out too turtly in the late game.
|
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/emEo2Kf.jpg) 132x135
Air harass maybe too strong?
|
On July 29 2013 07:42 -NegativeZero- wrote: skdeimos: Good layout overall, but the space between the natural and 3rd is too open - it'll be too hard for P to secure the 3rd vs Z. Either narrow this gap or add an obstacle in the middle of that area.
Actually, that's not intended to be the third base for P. I made that base open so it's a potential third for Z, but I expect P to take the the base that is horizontally adjacent to the main as a third.
|
That's the base I was referring to. It's quite a bit more closed off than the other one but there's still a big gap (probably 8-9 FF) between the nat and 3rd, which is too wide.
|
What's stopping P from just FFing at the ramp? No reason to FF at the choke between the nat and third when you can FF the ramp at the third pointing toward the nat. The area between the nat and third was left open deliberately so that Z can engage instead of instantly dying to a soul train.
Again, I'm willing to change it, but I'm just curious as to the rationale of closing off that choke when the ramp is perfectly FFable.
|
On July 29 2013 06:02 19Meavis93 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 01:22 Dellron wrote:On July 27 2013 09:21 Dellron wrote:ok, thanks. here is the updated version: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2q0pTSd.jpg) i moved third number one away from the gap, changed the middle path, increased the size of the main, and shrunk third number 2 and made it easier to move from it to the nat. i don't get it, is my map really that bad? no one has anything to say about it? not really, theres just a lack of feedback per posts in this thread usualy. as for your map, the natural choke looks wide, aswell as the rocks. then theres the rush distance, I think the map is a little to small. and the chokes in the middle are a little to small to ever engage a defensive position in lategame. ok, update #2.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NXDqaaq.jpg) i made it a bit less chokey around the middle and decreased the size of the natural ramps. The natural to natural distance is 37 seconds i am a little worried about it being too open now though.
|
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/uw53BWd.jpg)
Updated. Fixed the tankable natural and enlarged the main/moved resources in the main to open up space.
|
@skedimos, the 3rds look pretty hard, and in that sense the map reminds a lot of Planet S, including the corner bases as well. The main difference between that map and your is the middle. The middle reminds a lot of Daybreak, although even only in the middle there are noticeable differences, although the core principle remains which is there are very strong choke points.
I think that Zerg will be pretty imbalanced here because of openness combined with the specific choke points, which makes me want to see one of the 3rd bases become easier while keeping the general form of the map the same. Either that or choke some areas a lot more.
|
On July 29 2013 13:32 moskonia wrote: @skedimos, the 3rds look pretty hard, and in that sense the map reminds a lot of Planet S, including the corner bases as well. The main difference between that map and your is the middle. The middle reminds a lot of Daybreak, although even only in the middle there are noticeable differences, although the core principle remains which is there are very strong choke points.
I think that Zerg will be pretty imbalanced here because of openness combined with the specific choke points, which makes me want to see one of the 3rd bases become easier while keeping the general form of the map the same. Either that or choke some areas a lot more.
Hm. I agree that the third is probably too hard for PvZ.
I have two potential options to change that. One is to put rocks on the back ramp to the third to choke it up more. The other is to extend the third platform farther towards the nat choke. I'll try doing both and see if that's too much, I think.
Oh, and the area in front of the nat/vertical third needs to be choked up more. I'm looking into potentially redesigning the center to facilitate that.
Thanks for the input! ^^
|
|
|
|