|
ESV Golden Valleyv1.1Made by: Gfire Published on: [AM] [EU] [SEA] [KR]![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/kzaEk.jpg)
Introduction/Inspiration:
This is a sort of setup which has been developing in my head for a while now. The other day I sat down and built it.
This is my first 4p rotational map in... Very long time. It's not something I saw much benefit in pursuing, as they are harder to make but not really any better in my opinion. However, I realized that maps are often about good concepts, and not striving to make some optimal or ideal map, I decided to make so since I had a rotational map concept developing in my head.
The concept is about the ground third bases (a bit inspired by Whirlwind, I admit,) but they are only 6m1hyg bases, so you'll have to take a fourth pretty early. I paired it with a bridge from the area between the two third bases which lead up to a high ground pod players can control towards the center. I really liked this general layout, and it seemed to work quite well for a 4p rotational map, although the mains are a bit squished.
The watchtower placement came in later. I thought there was a lot of airspace and I decided to include something which I had been thinking about for a while, which was using Watchtowers to spot air space to see drops or other flying units on route to your base. I think there could be some interesting tactics around the watchtower as well.
Close Ups: Imgur Album
Data (Aesthetics):
- Texture Set:
- Agria Dirt
- Braxis Alpha Rust
- Braxis Alpha Rock
- Bel'Shir Grass Light
- Agria Grass Yellow
- Bel'Shir Bricks Small
- Aiur Tiles
- Aiur Small Bricks
- Cliff Type:
- Aiur Manmade Cliffs
- Braxis Alpha Organic Cliffs
Pictures (Gameplay):
+ Show Spoiler [Analyzer] +
+ Show Spoiler [Angled Overview] +
Data (Gameplay):
- Playable Bounds: 152x152
- Main Choke <-> Main Choke Distance(s): 41 (close) 54 (cross)
Change Log:
+ Show Spoiler +Update 1 - Updated Aesthetics, added LosB and critters, put a watchtower in the center and removed the other ones.
Update 2 - Updated the map for ESV Korean Weekly. Aesthetic and pathing improvements, minor bug fixes
Update 3 - Added a very small gap between the main and adjacent third.
|
This is awesome! Seriously, this is one of the best "standard-ish" maps I've seen. Great work on the center. The bridge works well too.
I'm not sure how well the thirds will work with the metagame, but it might actually improve ZvP so it isn't such a fast max. We'll see.
I think you can probably start working on some creative stuff like new map features. Definitely work some more on the aesthetics- these are alright, but I think it could use some more doodads like trees, rocks, brush, etc.
|
On May 06 2012 09:45 monitor wrote:
This is awesome! Seriously, this is one of the best "standard-ish" maps I've seen. Great work on the center. The bridge works well too.
I'm not sure how well the thirds will work with the metagame, but it might actually improve ZvP so it isn't such a fast max. We'll see.
I think you can probably start working on some creative stuff like new map features. Definitely work some more on the aesthetics- these are alright, but I think it could use some more doodads like trees, rocks, brush, etc.
Thanks. ^^ That means a lot coming from you.
I want to add more to the aesthetics... I kinda suck when it gets to this point, though.
|
Right now it looks a lot like dull green valley.
Try adding some of those yellow crystal things!
But otherwise very excellent and mechanically strong map.
|
|
|
On May 06 2012 11:24 Praetorial wrote:
Right now it looks a lot like dull green valley.
Try adding some of those yellow crystal things!
But otherwise very excellent and mechanically strong map.
Well I'm terrible at naming things.
On May 06 2012 11:38 Natespank wrote:
<3
<3
|
I think it is really similar to Whirlwind, as you admit. However, it does have a cool idea, the watchtowers being used to watch airspace. Obviously, having too much airspace in a map is bad(not saying that about this map at all, just a general thing), but placing watchtowers that specifically cover chunks of airspace can create an entirely new type of map feature, and metalopolis-style maps(maps with blobs of airspace between the mains) might become more well-balanced. At least, there certainly is the potential for something like that.
You should change the name to Brown Valley. It fits better, and will make people laugh. :D
|
I dig the center. may be a BIT too easy for toss or terran to sit on 4 bases though... and a terran attack on the 3rd base would be pretty brutal with the watchtowers the way they are. but hey i play z so it's in my blood to complain. real nice aesthetics though... and i dont even like warm colors..
|
This is inverse carl sagan + whirlwind. In other words, sweet. I really like the aesthetics vibe. The only thing that could go wrong with this map is the narrow chokes on the push between adjacent bases. Mech TvZ could get ugly, not sure. But the towers help immensely with early pushes and have that perfect balance of slightly out of the way to control, and also possible to avoid for longer route. On top of that they cover air space as a novelty feature. Cool. 
|
Put the watch towers in the middle. The middle just looks boring and serves no real purpose unless it's cross-spawn. I also disagree with watch towers revealing 2 bases each.
|
So the only way to get a third base with 2 geysers is by expanding to the other side of the map (and non at all if you play this map 2v2). I miss at least a third base with 2 geysers since it is hard to play a macro-oriented game with so few geysers.
I would consider blocking the entrance to a 'third' with rocks and add a geyser to the less safe 'fourth' (I am talking about the at the moment equally hard to defend third and fourth bases.
That way you kind-of solve the geyser issue and still leave a viable choice for some players who wish to take the safer base whose ramp is defended by a rock wall but has less gas.
|
Really nice map 
|
The layout is just... so cool. Death to all turtle games! \o/ The highgrounds should provide great strategical games on all spawns.
The middle seems a little empty. Could you spice it up a little?
|
On May 06 2012 11:47 NewSunshine wrote:
I think it is really similar to Whirlwind, as you admit. However, it does have a cool idea, the watchtowers being used to watch airspace. Obviously, having too much airspace in a map is bad(not saying that about this map at all, just a general thing), but placing watchtowers that specifically cover chunks of airspace can create an entirely new type of map feature, and metalopolis-style maps(maps with blobs of airspace between the mains) might become more well-balanced. At least, there certainly is the potential for something like that.
You should change the name to Brown Valley. It fits better, and will make people laugh. :D
Yup. We'll see how well it works, I guess.
On May 06 2012 13:41 TremendO wrote:
I dig the center. may be a BIT too easy for toss or terran to sit on 4 bases though... and a terran attack on the 3rd base would be pretty brutal with the watchtowers the way they are. but hey i play z so it's in my blood to complain. real nice aesthetics though... and i dont even like warm colors..
Yeah, my biggest concern here would be a Terran expanding towards a Zerg in close positions and locking down the watchtower.
On May 06 2012 14:27 EatThePath wrote:This is inverse carl sagan + whirlwind. In other words, sweet. I really like the aesthetics vibe. The only thing that could go wrong with this map is the narrow chokes on the push between adjacent bases. Mech TvZ could get ugly, not sure. But the towers help immensely with early pushes and have that perfect balance of slightly out of the way to control, and also possible to avoid for longer route. On top of that they cover air space as a novelty feature. Cool.
Yeah, TvZ mech is definitely a concern. Hopefully not too bad since the Zerg can expand away from the Terran and there's lots of space for counterattacks and such, but we'll see.
On May 06 2012 17:07 IronManSC wrote:
Put the watch towers in the middle. The middle just looks boring and serves no real purpose unless it's cross-spawn. I also disagree with watch towers revealing 2 bases each.
Yeah, I was already considering that. I'm not quite as conservative a mapper as you, and I put the watchtowers where they are although I knew they might cause problems.
On May 06 2012 18:58 Callynn wrote:
So the only way to get a third base with 2 geysers is by expanding to the other side of the map (and non at all if you play this map 2v2). I miss at least a third base with 2 geysers since it is hard to play a macro-oriented game with so few geysers.
I would consider blocking the entrance to a 'third' with rocks and add a geyser to the less safe 'fourth' (I am talking about the at the moment equally hard to defend third and fourth bases.
That way you kind-of solve the geyser issue and still leave a viable choice for some players who wish to take the safer base whose ramp is defended by a rock wall but has less gas.
They are high yield geysers, btw, so it's only a small amount less gas. The entire point of doing this is so that players have some incentive for taking fourth even before their main mines out.
On May 06 2012 20:09 Samcai wrote:Really nice map
Thanks ^^
On May 06 2012 20:44 Aunvilgod wrote:
The layout is just... so cool. Death to all turtle games! \o/ The highgrounds should provide great strategical games on all spawns.
The middle seems a little empty. Could you spice it up a little?
The middle is a bit empty... I don't want it to be any less open than this, but visually it is a bit boring. I'm planning on working on the visual side a little more. It's also possible that I would put a watchtower in the middle if the current ones don't work out.
|
You can just throw down some trees to make it look nicer ^^ Also generate foliage!
I agree with Superouman that the middle is a bit boring and could use a tower. The side towers are alright, but I don't think they're necessary. Drop spotting should be more about skill than just sitting at a tower imo.
|
I did generate foliage... Should it be thicker?
I'm more heavily considering removing these watchtowers after the comments. Thought a think it's "worth a try" it's not as if people are going to do intensive playtesting to figure out if it's worth it. Good players won't play a map a lot unless it's in a tournament, and a tournament won't include an untested map, especially if it has a weird, untested feature like this, which could be broken. It's the map pool paradox. For this reason, it's good to be conservative with maps if you want them to be accepted. That's hard for me because I like to push the limits, but it's probably the major thing holding me back from success as a mapper (second only to my refusal to use pathable water  .)
So I'll likely take the watchtowers out. Maybe I'll add a poll for that.
I'm not sure what's wrong with the center though... Does it really need a watchtower to make it less boring? Is there not enough focus on the center? Does it need to have more weight to it? I would fear that a watchtower would remove from some positional play and map control, so I'm hesitant. Although it's probably preferable to the current setup of the watchtowers.
You say that drop spotting should be more about skill than just sitting at a tower, and I agree, but I also feel that way about push scouting.
I'll add some polls about it.
|
Very nice work Gfire, I love the idea of lowering the resource counts on the bases beyond the natural.
I'm torn when it comes to the watchtowers - I like the idea of putting them on the sides of the map, but I worry that they will erode defender's advantage too much for whomever is not holding the towers.
For the aesthetics in the middle, I would suggest lots of scattered plants, jungle and wasteland, Brambles, and TempleBricks, Birds, Bush, maybe Tumbleweeds, Vines, Rock Small are all good for adding tiny details without worrying about footprints, and are less random than generated foliage.
|
Yeah, I've added some trees in some areas and will continue to, and I'm also going to add vines and other details around as well. But since the map is in such a near-complete state as it is, there's not too much motivation to put a lot of time into it. I might work more on other projects than I have on this map for the few days before publishing, but I'll definitely continue to work on the aesthetics.
|
On May 07 2012 03:15 monitor wrote:
You can just throw down some trees to make it look nicer ^^ Also generate foliage!
I agree with Superouman that the middle is a bit boring and could use a tower. The side towers are alright, but I don't think they're necessary. Drop spotting should be more about skill than just sitting at a tower imo.
Having a tower that allows drop spotting makes it a strategic asset with gravity on the map, distinct from other assets we've seen before. Whether or not this should exist essentially on the main push path, the chokiest path, the shortest path, and in a choky pocket, that is plenty questionable, and I lean towards probably not, but worth a shot.
The general concept though is not skill reducing like you suggest. If terran wants to send out drops, they need to shoo overlords with a viking or just hope they dodge. That is still the case here, except they also need to push out to the tower to get their drop through. Is there one ling? Your single stim marine just cleared your drop path. Is there creep at the tower? How much do you commit with then? Do they have a baneling trap on the ramp or choke? A flank waiting or a zergling group waiting to grab a marine squad? I think it creates much more depth than the usual "fly around the outside derp". And the dynamics change a lot in all matchups.
The middle is plenty useful and interesting once people have expanded away from each other to the half 4th of a far corner. A tower there would make the middle too choky / deathball favoured imo, as well as boring.
|
United States10539 Posts
i think what you are forcing the players to do is double expand so they get the full amount of gas after the natural. dont know if this will be a problem or not.
but this is a great map. i really like it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2E0ZH.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ag7va.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6z2pC.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/37kmx.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3xNbq.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6COIL.jpg)
