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Don´t worry, I will not change anything about Zerg yet. We are merely discussioning wheter or not the current larva spawn rate is good or not. (In terms of mathematics)
@Roblin
so, I guess there are 4 ways of trying to fix the problem:
20 seconds
16 seconds, queen spawns 2 per 50
13 seconds, queen spawns 2 per 40 or 3 per 60
slightly lower than 20 (perhaps 18) seconds, queen spawns slightly more than 2 per 60 or stays the same
Out of those option I think the last alternative would be best. Simply because it is not a huge change. Personally I think it would be healthy to make larvas spawn 10% faster and inject work 10% faster. But I will not change that yet.
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How is Z supposed to be balanced in terms of army? Is Z supposed to need more units than its opponent to fight effectively and therefore needs bigger economy or cheaper units, or is Z supposed to be more like T and P eco and army strength?
Right now it feels like the latter in terms of eco.
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Zerg is called Zerg for a reason. Zerg is quantity over quality, Protoss is quality over quantity and Terran is the middle of both. Zerg has always relied on strength in numbers
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Two replays.
ZvT Danko vs Puccini http://drop.sc/255532 (This one is the better game)
ZvT Danko vs Gossen http://drop.sc/255531
Feel free to analyze the games, the Zerg economic acceleration compared to the opponent, macro, the players decisions etc.
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On September 20 2012 05:05 Kabel wrote:Two replays. ZvT Danko vs Puccini http://drop.sc/255532ZvT Danko vs Gossen http://drop.sc/255531Feel free to analyze the games, the Zerg economic acceleration compared to the opponent, macro, the players decisions etc.
a fairly quick look confirms our suspicions:
the first game I watched (don't know which one that was) the zerg fell behind in workercount pretty fast (at one point zerg had 21 workers (+1 killed worker) and the terran had 30), in the second game I watched zerg did fine (both players were fairly even at all times of the early and mid game, zerg were even ahead most of the time).
the difference? a macro hatchery very soon after building the natural expansion.
zerg should be fine as long as we re-learn how to play zerg early-game, for now no change is needed, but if people feel that the way it is is too slow and should be changed for the sake of design then it wouldn't be impossible to change. also if an imbalance is found then there are multiple ways of fixing such things. with or without a larvae change.
that's my thoughts.
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I had to learn this the hard way.
You simply NEED a macro hatch. Now the question is, at what time is it optimal to get it.
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Hello! Here is a list! ^_^
Bugs I have noticed: Vultures do not currently count towards army value in the replay/observer user interface. I imagine this is also the case for some of the other units not normally in SC2, but I will update this post or post again to mention which others I have checked for sure. It might be faster for Kabel/whoever else to check in the editor though, but I'll try to pay attention to it anyway.
When Lurkers have their completely appropriate, cool, much appreciated upgrade (with the incorrect roach regeneration tooltip), their armour, which correctly gains the +2 bonus, does not list 2 more armour. So whereas Ultralisks with +1 carapace and Chitinous Plating have a total of 4 armour, which displays with a "3" for number of upgrades, Lurkers with +1 carapace and their Organic Carapace upgrade display "1" for the bonus armour. I realise though that it only applies while underground, which is why you don't allow it to show up?
There are various attack rate/other unit statistic changes that seem close to the Brood War or SCII stats but are not identical to either, but I won't go into that right now (with maybe a couple of exceptions I am more curious about) because I think most of them are your balance decisions. I still miss BW zerglings though. :'(
Should Science Vessels be Psionic or am I just getting mixed up by thinking that all casters are meant to be? At least in this game, Feedback still works on them so long as they have energy, correct?
I just want to check, you made Stim double the rate of fire and kept the SCII +50% move speed for balance reasons?
In SCII the attack rate bonus is 50% rather than 100% (-.2866) and in BW, the rates were +40% movement (like 2.25 to 3.15, but lurkers and speed zealots also reached these speeds) and +62.5% attack rate.
Funky, odd, changing creep bonuses for Hydralisks. :S (lowering with the speed upgrade)
Swarm Guardians do not use any supply. This this not intentional, is it?
When I want to change some hotkeys in maps (or at least on Breaking Point), some options aren't available to change. You have reavers there, some of the added upgrades, but Lurkers and the Lurker Den aren't there.
No Nydus Network? You don't even need Nydus Worms, but you could include Nydus Networks as high hit point Nydus Canals, unable to spawn Nydus Worms and ideally costing more minerals than gas, I'd have thought, more similar to Nydus Canals.
Brood Lord attack sprite is pretty wimpy and doesn't include an impact sound effect. 
That's all for now, wonderful job. I haven't really bothered with the BW remakes/take-offs before but my interest is increasing the more I play around with this. 
Oh, by the way, I haven't read much of the thread, so forgive me for any part that has been explained. I intend to read a lot more than I have, but just wanted to point out the bugs I'd noticed and make a few queries.
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@Fuchsteufelswild
How do you mean with army value in the observer user interface? Or rather, I find no such field in the map editor that indicates such a value for a unit?
The lurker +2 armor upgrade only effects burrowed lurkers. For some reason, and this is becoming a problem, lots of tooltips do not show up in the NA version. (I assume you play on NA) I don´t know what causes it or how it can be solved. Anyone knows?
Some stats on units are neither the same as in SC2 or BW, due to balance. This is something that might change once we dig deeper into the game and identifies balance problems.
Feedback works on all casters, as long as they have energy.
The current stimpack lasts 7 seconds, increases rate of fire by 100% and movement speed by 50%. I can´t say that the values are optimal. The reason I made it like this was to give Stim a more "explosive" effect. It is very strong but players gotta use it at the right moment to benefit from it, since it is so short. If you want to maximize your damage output, use it at the right moment in combat and not 5 seconds before you engage.
The Hydra speed and its bonus from the upgrade and creep is a hot topic in this thread. The reason I made the upgrade give a slight nerf to Hydras bonus on creep was because they could (almost) run as fast as corsairs and wraiths, which felt a little odd. Weak and fast air units should have the mobile advantage compared to stronger anti air ground units. But as with many other values in this MOD, nothing is set in stone or definitely.
My bad at the Swarm Guardian. Thanks for pointing it out ^^
It sounds strange that certain units hotkeys can´t be changed. Anyone knows how this can be adjusted?
I have left the Nydus out of the game for now. It will probably come back in one form or another. I haven´t decided the details around it yet.
I will check the Brood Lord attack and see if it can be pimped
Glad to hear you enjoy it
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Been sick the past couple of days, but I got a chance to post now. Lot of topics to cover!
@ Immortal in Gateway, Sentry Caster
I'll be honest, I primarily wanted to see this happen for lore reasons, and to help tie the Immortal more closely with the Dragoon for BW players. However, it was also meant to open up room in the Robo for the new caster. Sure we could have four Gateway units and five Robotics, but for some reason that feels more awkward than 5 in Gate, 4 in Robo, probably because the Robotics is a higher tech structure which you will have less of.
Since you said you're going to hold off until HotS before adding new units, I'll wait on this discussion for now. But I'll remember it when the time comes!
@ Void Shell, Phantom
Again, this was a reason to fit the Sentry in, so that the current Void Shell could be preserved on a more appropriate caster while making room for a new DArchon spell. But again, I'll wait until the HotS Starbow expansion to push for this further.
@ Matrix rename for High Templar
I'm working on this one, but I think the word Chrono should be in there since it is time-related. I like where the High Temp is going now though. Especially with FF removed.
@ Rift on Arbiter
40 energy is really wonky, since it is the only spell in the game that doesn't either cost continuous energy drain or a multiple of 25. However, if this is a thing that goes through, I would suggest we make some other spells cost 40 on other casters as well, so it doesn't feel like such an anomaly. I think Fungal Growth might make a good candidate if Infested Terran ever ends up getting removed in favor of something new, like Plague for example (I understand some people are still unsatisfied with the Infestor?).
Speaking of Fungal Growth... I'd still like to rename that Ensnare, to tie the Infestor more closely to the BW Queen and to more accurately suggest what the spell now does to players who are used to SC2 (i.e. no damage, no fungus eating at target). It's also simpler to say. I always thought Fungal Growth was a clumsy spell name on Blizzard's part.
@ Hydra Frenzy
Yeah it was kind of a radical idea, but I thought I would put it on the table. If that's out, then I would be in favor of simply moving the Hydralisk upgrades back to Hatchery tech.
However I don't like the inconsistency of Hydralisks having a different speed bonus on creep than other Zerg units (yes it shares that with the Queen, but that's more of a bigger off-creep penalty than the inverse, and fits that particular unit's flavor).
I think the solution is to make the Hydra speed upgrade simply give them the same bonus off-creep as on. In other words, they would generate their own creep trail while moving off-creep (as I said before, resize and recolor the Infestor's slime trail effect purple and voila! Visual indicators for upgrades are also nice to see). While it might feel like it lessens the importance of creep spreading, it is only affecting one unit. You still have numerous reasons to spread creep, including vision, ease of Queen mobilization, and units like Banelings, Infestors and Ultralisks.
@ Larvae spawn rate
I want to say hold off on making changes to something like this until more data becomes available. It could very easily be a metagame issue - I'm betting that players just need to get used to making more macro Hatches again like in BW. If that happens and Zerg still seems to be at a disadvantage, then changes can be made.
My only small issue is the fact that Inject Larvae still shows four eggs on the Hatchery while now only spawning two. If the effect could be modified to fit the new numbers that would be nice. Another possible solution is to double the time it takes for the larvae to Hatch but leave it at four... could cause problems though. 120 seconds is a long time to wait. Still, I sort of prefer the idea of Zerg hatching in large waves rather than small streams. It would also let players have more flexibility by choosing to stagger their Injects instead of blindly hitting them all at once like they do in SC2.
Edit: Damn, I knew I forgot a couple topics.
@ Medic Shield
I've said this before but I prefer the idea of giving D-Matrix back to the Medic in place of Energize. We could swap Energize over to the Science Vessel for now until a better spell can be designed for it, if needed. I feel like, in the long run, putting a spell like Energize on a cheap massable unit like the Medic could be a huge mistake when combined with powerful casters like Vessels and Ghosts. It also doesn't really feel medical.
I would support giving the Medic another spell however. In addition to Shield, I think we should bring back Restore from BW as someone else mentioned in a recent post. I would call it Sterilize (Restore was always kind of a boring generic name) and between that and Shield the Medic would have a nice set of abilities to work with.
@ Reaver
There was some discussion on the NA chat the other night about how this unit feels too weak in comparison to BW. I haven't played with or seen it used yet, personally, but Arkuss said he wasn't satisfied with it and wanted to see the Colossus returned to the game! If people are asking for that travesty back, there is an issue.
Some of the concerns brought up were:
- Projectile travel speed too slow.
- Splash radius too small (my greatest concern and probably the best candidate for a buff).
- Range possibly too short to effectively siege as well as it did in the slower environment that was Brood War.
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On September 20 2012 15:53 Kabel wrote:
@Fuchsteufelswild
How do you mean with army value in the observer user interface? Or rather, I find no such field in the map editor that indicates such a value for a unit?
Had same problem in freecraft, but fixed it year ago - you have to go to unit and there set score for production and for kill :D.
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On September 20 2012 01:32 decemberscalm wrote:Another note on PvZ. Corsair is kind of a dead unit from what we've experienced.
corsairs are very unusual in starbow due their attack being aoe but their lift being single target.
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Let me elaborate. It doesn't feel like a valid opener that it was in BW. Queens are already in play, usually 2 or even 3 by the time corsairs swing on by. Spores goes up really quickly. Creep gives bonus speed making reaction based hydras extremely good at warding corsairs off.
SC2 sky toss void ray attack should still be viable but I haven't seen anyone try it yet because people are more likely to have hydras out anyways.
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Void rays should be removed from existence. Carriers seem pretty strong though. Can't really spam queens so skytoss gets a slight buff from that. I dont think lift is the right spell for corsairs.
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@decemberscalm
It feels easier to wait until HoTS before adding new units. I somewhere must set the boundaries for this project. I will still continue to work with the unfinished casters and fill the empty holes. Especially the Zerg casters.
I agree with larva spawn rate. I will wait a while before I adjust anything about it. I do think there is something wrong with it now. But that is just a feeling and I have no data to prove it.
Medic.. I am considering to add Restoration (Sterilization) to Medics. I have not done so yet because the other casters are still unfinished and Ive put priority into their spells. I think if Energize is added to the Vessel, there are no viable targets to use it on. You want to give energy to the Vessel and Ghost, since they have the strong spells. Shield fitted very well on Medics, but if I let it remain there the Vessel will have no good starting spell. I have barely tried the new Vessel yet.
Old Terran caster line up of spells:
Medics - Heal, Energize and Shield
Ghost - Snipe, Lockdown, Cloak, Nuke
Vessel - Nerve Jammer, Irradiate and EMP
New line up:
Medics Heal and Energzie
Ghost -Snipe, EMP, Lockdown, Cloak, Nuke
Vessel - D-Matrix, Nerve Jammer and Irradiate
Reaver.. People often tell me to remove stuff from the game left and right. Banelings, Planetaries, Void Rays, Reavers, Scourge and Immortals. If a unit got a problem I try to identify it and solve it. If there is no possible solution to a unit, then it can be removed as a final solution. I agree that the Reaver is not so good right now. So I will have a look at it.
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@FreeToss
Thanks! Hi there, havent seen you in a while!
@ Corsairs
I see many PvZ where P uses them to great effect. Ive even seen P use it in PvT with good effect too! So I dont think they are too bad or underused right now. Or anyone has a replay to show?
@Scen
Please tell me your arguments why Void Rays should be removed, instead of just making statements like that.
Lift had more synergy with Phoenix, due to it making higher single target damage. You lifted up units to destroy them.
The damage Corsairs do is enough to destroy weaker targets, like workers etc, but not enough to destroy heavily armored targets as easily. Lift is now more of a spell that disables the enemy, rather than killing it for you. So the focus has been shifted a bit. I see players use it quite a lot and I think it fits. But if anyone has a better suggestion, feel free to post it here!
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Suggestion for Corsairs: Give them back an ability reminiscent of D-Web. Have it only affect ground-to-air attacks to prevent overlap with Nerve Jammer. Keep Graviton Beam! A shared energy pool for multiple spells on one unit leads to more tactical decision making - this is interesting gameplay. If balance becomes a concern, tweak energy cost/add research requirement/tweak research time/costs/prerequisites, or play with radius/duration of spell. These are all variables that can be used to balance it.
Also, Kabel, If Zerg casters are still being played around with, I'd like to bring back the idea of moving Dark Swarm over to the Queen and removing the Swarm Guardian in favor of something else *cough*Viper*cough*. I know you want to wait until HotS but we can use the current model as a placeholder. The spells really shouldn't be too difficult to code as the HotS Custom Mod already did it before the official Beta came out.
Hell most people only use the SG for Dark Swarm anyway, if you really want to hold off on adding new units we could just straight remove it (and the badly textured building model) and save its seat for the Viper later.
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@Kabel
If its literally impossible to hold certain Toss 2 base all ins, it might need some changing, but we don't know if that's the case yet.
I would absolutely love to see replays of Toss using corsairs at the beginning of the game.
Corsair solves the supposed problem Blizzard says exist for toss, being lack of a solid muta defense besides cannons and frantically scurrying around stalkers. Meanwhile we also get the sexy grav lift. I personally love the unit.
@SmileZerg
Don't you DARE touch my dark swarm on my flying defilers ya big meanie!!!!
You need a lot of them because they will be irradiated, and they will die. Inject is so critical. You don't want to share a energy pool with that.
Viper hasn't really convinced me yet. Its obviously a good unit, pulling tanks is extremely useful. But does it create interesting engagements with pull? Blinding cloud is really a weak dark swarm that isn't quite as interesting, visible, or amazing to see in game play.
With Dweb on corsair you could shut down air defense really easy and then proceed to lift units. Could be op or interesting.
I'm not gonna lie, immortal on warp in is just plain rude. Immortal drops are sick, they just kill whatever units you have in reserve that try to deal with it while taking down workers but also the actual mining base extremely quickly. In conjunction with proxy pylon and warp prism, that might just be a tad too much mobile firepower. 6 warp gates are a norm, 6 immortals dropped into someones base instantly is NOT.
Goon was gateway, but think, it was a much more mobile and light unit. Immortal looks like a walking tank. Just think lore wise, you'd need a robotics facility to actually produce such heavy machinery. Goons could fit through a gateway much like the stalker. Makes sense to me lore wise. Immortal looks more like something you'd need to produce much like the reaver. Just because it has a pilot doesn't make it gateway.
Another option is you could simply say, only gates can make immortal, not warp gates. Would force you to keep some transformed into gates if you want that really strong anti armor army. Feels really unnecessary to me.
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@Hydras
Imho, slow them down to 2(+0,4 from creep)/3(+0,6) with upgrade. Move speed upgrade to hatch tech, just make research take 110 sec/150min/150gas.
Slow hydras wont be ultimate defence anymore, but still good (they wont catch corsairs etc so easly). With (quite big) investment they gonna become treat for quite some time (as you can get upgrade quite early and delay lair), securing map and treatening opponent. Also, overal nerf to their speed (3,25speed right now) will make speedlots hydra fights possible for zealots to take.
@Corsairs
Leave them as they are right now. They are probably even too strong. They can really do serious damage killing precious workers,overlords, scouting and forcing zerg to be defensive.
@Ghosts
Well... I really prefered old concept of ghosts as ghosts. Striking hard from behind, when enemy is not protected.
Snipe/disable spells fits his concept perfectly imho. Snipe/nuke/cloak. Maybe just buff lockdown, so it can work well on its own as well? Castable on buildings stopping research/production? Aditionally to disabling removing units energy/shields? Unique units are cool. With emp its just gonna be another boring aoe dmg dealing caster with some aditional utility imho.
@Reavers
Its hard to find good balance between useless and overpowered with them. Right now their atacks always hits, they really cant get stuck like in bw, so they have to be weaker. They rewarded good control in bw, and punished lack of it (and especially with bad positioning). Right now they are working like static defence. You cant really drop micro them, cause they atack SOOOO late after droping. Its better to just put them on highground, like with tank drops. Scarabs passing cliffs was worst what happened for them imho.
@Larvae spawn rate
People have to relearn how to play zerg. Give it time.
@Immortal
Imho, remove from robo, dont add to gateway. Give +4-6 dmg vs armored to stalkers and lower their atkspeed. Problem solved. There are no roaches, no marauders and warpgate was nerfed by alot. Toss dont need that unit anymore.
@Sentry Caster
I always thought that if sentry was supposed to be in game then it should come out of robo. Overall, i dont like this unit, but imho robo is better place for it.
@Science Vessels
Anyone beside me have feeling they are VERY QUICK out on field? They required one more building in BW.
@Photon Cannons
I think they are OP. There are no marauders, no roaches, stalkers are weaker, and they can be chronoboosted. I think You should nerf their hps (like 125/125 or so). They were 100/100 in BW and they did fine witchout chronoboost.
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On September 21 2012 01:12 decemberscalm wrote:
@SmileZerg
Don't you DARE touch my dark swarm on my flying defilers ya big meanie!!!!
You need a lot of them because they will be irradiated, and they will die. Inject is so critical. You don't want to share a energy pool with that.
Inject is cheap on energy and easier to maintain in this Mod than in SC2, and the larvae spawn rates/mechanics are still being played with. As Dark Swarm is a late game spell, you should have a pretty decent number of bases and macro Hatches by the time it's seeing offensive use. The more Hatches you make the more Queens you can have AND the less Injects you need. It's a problem that solves itself.
Viper hasn't really convinced me yet. Its obviously a good unit, pulling tanks is extremely useful. But does it create interesting engagements with pull? Blinding cloud is really a weak dark swarm that isn't quite as interesting, visible, or amazing to see in game play.
I'm assuming we would remove Blinding Cloud due to overlap with both Dark Swarm and Nerve Jammer (possibly DWeb as well if that returns in some form like I just suggested) and replace it with something new. But Abduct looks fun as hell, and the Viper's model is like the sexiest thing to come out of Blizzard's art department since the new tank in siege mode.
With Dweb on corsair you could shut down air defense really easy and then proceed to lift units. Could be op or interesting.
Like I said, we have a huge range of variables to play with if DWeb turns out to be OP at first. Sounds like Corsairs need something though.
I'm not gonna lie, immortal on warp in is just plain rude. Immortal drops are sick, they just kill whatever units you have in reserve that try to deal with it while taking down workers but also the actual mining base extremely quickly. In conjunction with proxy pylon and warp prism, that might just be a tad too much mobile firepower. 6 warp gates are a norm, 6 immortals dropped into someones base instantly is NOT.
That's one of the reasons why I think we should make them Gateway only. After some consideration I realized that makes it more interesting in several ways, as well as more balanced.
Goon was gateway, but think, it was a much more mobile and light unit. Immortal looks like a walking tank. Just think lore wise, you'd need a robotics facility to actually produce such heavy machinery. Goons could fit through a gateway much like the stalker. Makes sense to me lore wise. Immortal looks more like something you'd need to produce much like the reaver. Just because it has a pilot doesn't make it gateway.
Protoss don't produce Immortals. They are warriors just like Zealots and Templar, and should be treated as such. Having a pilot does, in fact, mean that they do not make sense being constructed at a Robotics Facility. Also, though it might have been difficult to tell visually in BW, some of the background material suggests that Dragoons were the size of tanks. Don't forget that Immortals are LITERALLY Dragoons with some different gear strapped on. Hell I think Dragoons might have been BIGGER, given the positioning of the huge, extra-jointed legs mounted at the top instead of the bottom like the smaller ones of the Immortals.
Another option is you could simply say, only gates can make immortal, not warp gates. Would force you to keep some transformed into gates if you want that really strong anti armor army. Feels really unnecessary to me.
Right yes, as I said above, I would like this a lot actually. It only feels unnecessary because people are used to the crappy system Blizzard settled with when they couldn't reconcile Immortals with their stupid Warp Gate mechanics (which Starbow has improved upon). In the Alpha of WoL Immortals were originally Gateway units.
However, this is obviously something that Kabel thinks should wait until the HotStarbow expansion, when bigger changes will be more easily accepted and a new caster unit can take the Immortal's place in the Robo. I will be there to fight for it at that time!
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On September 21 2012 01:37 Danko__ wrote:
@Hydras
Imho, slow them down to 2(+0,4 from creep)/3(+0,6) with upgrade. Move speed upgrade to hatch tech, just make research take 110 sec/150min/150gas.
Slow hydras wont be ultimate defence anymore, but still good (they wont catch corsairs etc so easly). With (quite big) investment they gonna become treat for quite some time (as you can get upgrade quite early and delay lair), securing map and treatening opponent. Also, overal nerf to their speed (3,25speed right now) will make speedlots hydra fights possible for zealots to take.
Hydras before speed upgrade slower than Zealots and Marines? That doesn't feel even remotely Zergy.
Early game they should be managable. Lategame they should be FAST. Zerg is all about raw mobility.
@Corsairs
Leave them as they are right now. They are probably even too strong. They can really do serious damage killing precious workers,overlords, scouting and forcing zerg to be defensive.
Okay, this is different than what I was hearing from others. But I still haven't seen Corsairs used...
@Ghosts
Well... I really prefered old concept of ghosts as ghosts. Striking hard from behind, when enemy is not protected.
Snipe/disable spells fits his concept perfectly imho. Snipe/nuke/cloak. Maybe just buff lockdown, so it can work well on its own as well? Castable on buildings stopping research/production? Aditionally to disabling removing units energy/shields? Unique units are cool. With emp its just gonna be another boring aoe dmg dealing caster with some aditional utility imho.
I like the way you think, this is how I felt too. I also considered suggesting Lockdown mess with building production, but I thought better of it to leave the option open for Contaminate to make a return which feels really Zergy. EMP doesn't deal damage though, except versus shields, so I wouldn't necessarily consider them boring. But time will tell.
@Reavers
Its hard to find good balance between useless and overpowered with them. Right now their atacks always hits, they really cant get stuck like in bw, so they have to be weaker. They rewarded good control in bw, and punished lack of it (and especially with bad positioning). Right now they are working like static defence. You cant really drop micro them, cause they atack SOOOO late after droping. Its better to just put them on highground, like with tank drops. Scarabs passing cliffs was worst what happened for them imho.
Yeah I think the ideal thing would be to find someone who can program us workable, BW scarabs. But we still can't even replicate spider mines, so I guess we need to find a way to work around that for now... 
@Larvae spawn rate
People have to relearn how to play zerg. Give it time.
This is also the way I'm leaning on the issue.
@Immortal
Imho, remove from robo, dont add to gateway. Give +4-6 dmg vs armored to stalkers and lower their atkspeed. Problem solved. There are no roaches, no marauders and warpgate was nerfed by alot. Toss dont need that unit anymore.
I love the new Stalkers without the armored bonus and with faster attack speed. I would rather keep the Immortal and let people mess around with the stats to make it feel more interesting.
@Sentry Caster
I always thought that if sentry was supposed to be in game then it should come out of robo. Overall, i dont like this unit, but imho robo is better place for it.
What is it you don't like about the unit? If it's the old spell line-up (yuck, Force Field) then I wouldn't be concerned, the plan was to give it some brand new spells.
@Science Vessels
Anyone beside me have feeling they are VERY QUICK out on field? They required one more building in BW.
Actually this is a good point. I knew something felt off about how quickly I was seeing so many of these on the field sometimes.
There should be plenty of buildings from WoL Campaign that could stand in as a Science Facility if necessary. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
@Photon Cannons
I think they are OP. There are no marauders, no roaches, stalkers are weaker, and they can be chronoboosted. I think You should nerf their hps (like 125/125 or so). They were 100/100 in BW and they did fine witchout chronoboost.
Well, a strong defender's advantage is a major design goal of Starbow. But I forgot cannons used to be weaker in BW... maybe they could do with a health reduction, especially with Chrono Boost and lack of early anti-armor now (which I don't think is a problem in itself, btw, I like the fact that less bonus damage to Armored is flying around now).
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EPT
