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[A] Starbow - Page 271

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
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Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
May 09 2013 10:51 GMT
#5401
I like your snipe.

About air-mine. It might overlap with new viking, so I guess we'll have to think about having Ghost and / or viking to deal with mass muta...
aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
JohnnyZerg
Profile Joined July 2012
Italy378 Posts
May 09 2013 11:41 GMT
#5402
Nice your snipe and anti air mine. But at the anti air mines, I think that is necessary to add a duration of 30-40 sec.
Remember that it is always energy, abuse a ghost could fill the entire map with these mines.
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9448 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-09 12:19:11
May 09 2013 12:13 GMT
#5403
On May 09 2013 19:51 Xiphias wrote:
I like your snipe.

About air-mine. It might overlap with new viking, so I guess we'll have to think about having Ghost and / or viking to deal with mass muta...


Yes air-mine was as a replacement for viking. Ghost should receive a different ability if vikings stay in the game.

Nice your snipe and anti air mine. But at the anti air mines, I think that is necessary to add a duration of 30-40 sec.
Remember that it is always energy, abuse a ghost could fill the entire map with these mines


Thats a good point.
Sumadin
Profile Joined August 2011
Denmark588 Posts
May 09 2013 12:52 GMT
#5404
I think the snipe is too nuke-ish through. Infact it is very much the same. We should consider just adjusting the nuke first. Maybe have a second class of tactical strike that Ghost could call down, i don't know.

That mine would a stupidly high AOE to really have an effect. If it is stealthed like a widow mine then it might work, but any decent player would still be able to largely dodge them with Air micro. I like Mag-mines better.
The basic key to beating a priest is playing a deck that is terrible.
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9448 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-09 12:57:02
May 09 2013 12:56 GMT
#5405
On May 09 2013 21:52 Sumadin wrote:
I think the snipe is too nuke-ish through. Infact it is very much the same. We should consider just adjusting the nuke first. Maybe have a second class of tactical strike that Ghost could call down, i don't know.

That mine would a stupidly high AOE to really have an effect. If it is stealthed like a widow mine then it might work, but any decent player would still be able to largely dodge them with Air micro. I like Mag-mines better.


Nuke = Aoe. "Snipe" = single target. Nuke = 20 seconds or so before it hit. My suggestion willl probably have a delay of 1-1.5 seconds. Something like that. They are totally different.

You can't dodge the mine. But you minimize damage intaken by sending in one muta at a time into the mine(s). This means that it will be a lot more mechanically difficult to have a lot of mutalisks.
pornguy
Profile Joined May 2013
13 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-09 14:23:26
May 09 2013 14:20 GMT
#5406
On May 09 2013 13:02 NewSunshine wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2013 13:00 pornguy wrote:
I actually bought HotS to play this mod, but unfortunately everyone is in EU and I am in US server.

Buyers remorse =\

*facepalm*

You know that with HotS global play was introduced, right?


How can you do that?

EDIT: Nevermind, found it!
Chronopolis
Profile Joined April 2009
Canada1484 Posts
May 09 2013 20:05 GMT
#5407
On May 09 2013 16:51 Hider wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2013 14:35 Xiphias wrote:
On May 09 2013 13:00 pornguy wrote:
I actually bought HotS to play this mod, but unfortunately everyone is in EU and I am in US server.

Buyers remorse =\


There are players on US once in a while. I'll have decemberscalm get in touch with you when there are people online,

And, like stated above, ofc, you can play on EU as wall, but the time zones might make that difficult for you. Tune in on Saturday at 6 pm CET (11 am for most of USA) at:
twitch.tv/decemberscalm or just log on to EU and obs games to watch the tournament.

@Hider. About Ghost. You said you needed more dropships, 1-2 for harassment and 2-3 for army movement (mostly for mech?). What if having 1-2 ghosts could be a good alternative for the 2-3 dropships needed for army movement?


But ghosts doesn't make tvz early game more actionpacked. Cheaper dropships can.

Anyway, this would be my suggestion for the ghost.

Give snipe a new name and make it capable of attacking nonbiological units as this will make it usefull vs reavers as well.

Ability 1

Energy ghost: 25.
Damage = 70 (roughly).
New snipe attack is a somewhat slow projectile, where you target a location instead of a unit. If the unit is inside a radius of 0.5 (something like that) of the targetted location after the projectile has landed, it will take damage. However, it can only damage 1 unit per projectile, so if there are multiple units inside the small radius, it will target the unit that is closest to the middle.
The projectile can be avoided with good reaction as long as the targetted unit is somewhat fast. However, a reaver can't escape it without the use of a warp prism.

This means that the snipe ability will be good in these scenarios:
1) Vs big armies (as you always will hit a unit. Maybe not the unit you intended to target, however then you will kill something else).
2) Vs slow immobile units (siege tank as exceptions I guess as snipe range is too low vs the 13 range of siege tanks).
3) You can manipulate your opponent into moving in a certain direction through a couple of "snipes". Some times this can be beneficial if you have units flanking him/spider mines or siege tanks in that location.
4) Your opponent has bad micro.

Ability 2:
Anti air mine. I guess it is somewhat similar to widow mine, however there are some big differences.
2) Its not moveable.
3) It has no primary target. It deals the same amount of damage to all units inside an area of X.
4) Larger activation range than widow mines and higher Aoe.
5) Roughly 40-50 damage.
6) Energy cost = 25

That means the ghost will have no lockdown and "normal" snipe. But I think these two abilities will make the ghost very valueable when going bio, but also usefull with mech. At the same time these two abilities will probably warrant a ghost price increase from 50/100 to 100/100 and a supply increase from 2 to 3.
The ability will obviously mostly be used vs mass mutalisks, but it could have other uses as well (to soften the HP of dropships, banshees, if the opponent has his carriers/guardians tightly packed etc.).


I like these abilities. Both of them are useful and have broad interactions with other units. Perhaps the first will allow for some dropship-ghost micro, by dropping the ghost and sniping, picking up. Maybe make it instacast (projectile is fired instantly, with a 1.5 - 2 second cooldown. It might give mm+ghost drops a bit more potential punch against an inattentive opponent.

About the mine ability, I'm most interested in it's ability to allow the terran to harrass even with protoss or zerg anti air out. Imagine 2 ghosts throwing up a wall of mines before getting in a dropship or fleeing. Imagine a few cloaked ghosts in the middle of the map laying air mines, making "safe" path for medivacs to go forward and back. The zerg can clear the mines out with overlords, or with single mutas. Maybe corrupters can out range the mine (6>5), so the zerg can sweep, but only at the speed of an overseer.
Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
May 09 2013 20:30 GMT
#5408
Is the defenders advantage too strong? I am thinking of doing 40% miss chance instead of 50% Any thoughts?
aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
Chronopolis
Profile Joined April 2009
Canada1484 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-09 20:44:00
May 09 2013 20:43 GMT
#5409
On May 10 2013 05:30 Xiphias wrote:
Is the defenders advantage too strong? I am thinking of doing 40% miss chance instead of 50% Any thoughts?

Pretty sure 50% is too strong. Any attacking up wide ramps is inadvisable.
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9448 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-09 22:10:05
May 09 2013 22:01 GMT
#5410
On May 10 2013 05:43 Chronopolis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2013 05:30 Xiphias wrote:
Is the defenders advantage too strong? I am thinking of doing 40% miss chance instead of 50% Any thoughts?

Pretty sure 50% is too strong. Any attacking up wide ramps is inadvisable.


I think its fine tbh. Strong defenders should incentivize more dropplay/nydus which I would like to see. I still think players are nowhere near experienced or good enough before we can say whether the defenders advantage is too strong to create too passive games.
If anything though I would like to see ventral sachs reduced from 150/150 to 100/100. I feel like zerg players (unlike in sc2) doesn't have that many units, and therefore it seems difficult for them to afford spending a lot of ressorces on drop tech. Reducing the cost wouldn't hurt I think.

Maybe make it instacast (projectile is fired instantly, with a 1.5 - 2 second cooldown. It might give mm+ghost drops a bit more potential punch against an inattentive opponent.


I like the projectile idea because it means that the opponent can react to it after it has been casted. It needs to be a bit slower than the HOTS-fungal projectile as even the fastest players out there can't react to the projectile after it has been casted. As this makes the ability micro-dependent the damage output can be increased signifciantly (from 25+20 vs light to 70 or something like that). This will make snipe less of a spam ability (at least I hope), but even more usefull (in all matchups) in the hands of a great player.

If the snipe is too easy too dodge/too difficult to hit with, we can adjust the radius of it, thus I think (with a bit of work) we can make this work as I intend/hope.

About the mine ability, I'm most interested in it's ability to allow the terran to harrass even with protoss or zerg anti air out. Imagine 2 ghosts throwing up a wall of mines before getting in a dropship or fleeing. Imagine a few cloaked ghosts in the middle of the map laying air mines, making "safe" path for medivacs to go forward and back. The zerg can clear the mines out with overlords, or with single mutas. Maybe corrupters can out range the mine (6>5), so the zerg can sweep, but only at the speed of an overseer.


Great thoughts there. Makes me really wanna see the idea as I feel like it could have much more strategical depht than any kind of Viking/valkyrie.
Danko__
Profile Joined January 2012
Poland429 Posts
May 10 2013 05:15 GMT
#5411
Every new spell we create requires exactly the samereaction. Moving your units away out of aoe. Can't we be more creative? Would be cool to have different spells requiring different responses.

My suggestion: Ghost lashes targeted unit to the ground. If unit will move too far away leash will explode dealing aoe damage around targeted unit.

Mines are another example of how we got stuck with all similar spells. Do we really need 4-5 (mine, snapshot, aerial mine, one suggested for toss, bane mines)exactly same spells with different aoes, different targets and different damage?

JohnnyZerg
Profile Joined July 2012
Italy378 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-10 12:14:26
May 10 2013 12:01 GMT
#5412
I think that vulture with 20 damage, kill to fast drones. Even if I put 2 spine crawels, 2 vulture can to kill at least 2 drones. The only way is to make a wall, but that becomes useless when the terran starts to drops.

Guardian is currently useless, die from all anti air units, (i propose to add a secondary effect).

Please adjusted neural, If you do not want it to work while burrow, given at infestor the opportunity to move while using neural on an unit. If Infestor move too distant, loses control unit. The unit captured, can not attack / use spell, not have a time duration. (Opponent must kill infestor, or zerg player must give up control).
This parasite can serve, not only to disable an enemy unit, but you can force the enemy unit, to move into your army and destroy it (an example is vessel / tank).

Thx for read. Gl hf

Edit: proving the Infestor on the unit test map, I found a bug of the neural, the targeted unit dies (after 2 sec) after losing control of the neural. Get ready for the tournament, JohnnyZerg will don't scruple to use this. bhuahah
Danko__
Profile Joined January 2012
Poland429 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-10 14:59:13
May 10 2013 12:48 GMT
#5413
Johnny, 2 vultures kill drones slower now than before. They still need 3 shots and are attacking slower.

Damage buff and atack speed was nerf vs zerg and buff vs toss. What really changed in tvz is quantity of vults.
JohnnyZerg
Profile Joined July 2012
Italy378 Posts
May 10 2013 13:39 GMT
#5414
For the tournament, i'm available from 20:00 CET. Sorry...
Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
May 10 2013 13:55 GMT
#5415
We are thinking of bringing back burrow neural but range to cast while burrowed will be shorter than unburrowed. The benign thing would then be removed.

@Mines everywhere. I don't think the nullfier spell will feel like a "mine" too much (I hope), but I am a bit concerned that all abilities will "be the same" in how they feel (not how they actually play out). We'll discuss this more before deciding, but all suggestions and ideas so far has been productive, even if they won't all make the next patch.

There will be some changes and some of them will be "let's just try this and see if it works". Don't be too put off by that, as all changes in Starbow are easily revertible if they turn out to be crap. Sometimes the best way to check if something works is just trying it out for a short period.
aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
SmileZerg
Profile Joined March 2012
United States543 Posts
May 10 2013 17:22 GMT
#5416
The answer is not to put a freaking mine ability on the Ghost. They are Sniper themed, we already have Reapers as a bio unit with some sort of explosive charges. Keep Lockdown as is, modify Snipe as necessary. The Ghost is not a utility caster or a crowd control unit (except where defensive nukes are concerned), it's a stealth assassin and should be treated as such. Ghosts are the DT's/Dark Archons of Terran, but with much better range.
"Show me your teeth."
Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-10 17:46:29
May 10 2013 17:30 GMT
#5417
List of players and league

I would like to have a list of active players and their respective league in the Opening post (OP) for new players so they can know whom to contact for a game. It will be a rough league division:
Diamond / Master
Plat / Gold
Silver / Bronze

Maybe even just: Master/diamond/plat and Gold/Silver/Bronze

(I think Zlomani has even been a GM at one point )

Please PM me with this info if you feel you fall under the category "active player" (play usually once a week or more?)

Tournament

All players must read the rules (not many) at:

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/User:Xiphias/Starbow_2
aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
JohnnyZerg
Profile Joined July 2012
Italy378 Posts
May 10 2013 18:08 GMT
#5418
This is a game (bad game because play i), where i use shamelessly the neural parasite bug.

http://drop.sc/333241 whinner and thought: + Show Spoiler +
obviously loses JohnnyZerg, despite having used illegal tricks. At the end I just wanted to do damage, so I have not defended, if I want lose, I wanted to bring with me 2 planetary fortresses

Thought for bug: The bug I liked it even though heavily biased. However, this bug could give interesting insights for other skills.
Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
May 11 2013 06:26 GMT
#5419
We are one player short for the tournament. Someone must step up! (or chornopolise gets a free win. No one wants that!)

Info here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409742

and here: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/User:Xiphias/Starbow_2

PM me if you can play.
aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
May 11 2013 07:22 GMT
#5420
Small patch btw:

+ Show Spoiler +

- Neural bug fixed. (We might change neural later, but this si just a small fix so there is no IMBA stuff in the tournamnet)
- Corsair friendly splash dmg fixed.
- Interceptors are no longer free.
- Xiphias Pass removed from the map pool for now
aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
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