[A] Starbow - Page 259

On April 28 2013 22:29 decemberscalm wrote:
Not necessarily.

Wraith=high single target damage, excellent for sniping capital ships and and other targets

Banshee=excellent at taking out single targets on the ground

It would align more with the banshee role if it was given a weak anti air but a strong anti ground.

Historically the banshee had both a ground and air attack, so its basically up to us for which model we'd use. I can see either way being fine.

What do you mean by delay?

On April 28 2013 23:32 Hider wrote:


Okay, I am fine with that.



Its the same thing I talked about earlier. When you have a group of units and you tell them to from to retreat for instance, then the units in the back has to move before the units can move as well. So there is a delay between when you order a command till the "front-units" move.

Its the same thing I talked about earlier. When you have a group of units and you tell them to from to retreat for instance, then the units in the back has to move before the units can move as well. So there is a delay between when you order a command till the "front-units" move.

and giving exactly the same option to terran is gonna be lame.

@Danko
That is just blizzards built in latency, nothing to do with the triggers. Try a normal game against AI, then try Starbow against an AI. See if you can actually tell the difference.

As for the wraith, if the damage is good enough you'd only need 1-3 wraiths to actually harass. Not the insane 13 mutas at a time that Z pops. I'm primarily looking at the difference between BW's style 2 port wraith (which was sillier gimmick due to the number of wraith required to one shot drones) and the very bland sort of stutter step the banshee has.Sure, it flies more like a mutalisk but the mutalisk flies the same way as every other fast air unit

In terms of harass, more agile and combat oriented is a lot more exciting than relying on cloak and a little bit of stutter stepping.
The skill cap of the unit is also waaaaaaay higher.

I cant agree with that one. I would prefer to see 2 banshees atacking at 2 places simultaneously than mutas... i mean wraiths poking and poking again.

On April 29 2013 03:46 Danko__ wrote:


Havent been playing anything else than starbow for a while so i will check it.



My point is: You cant make it enough effective in low numbers without making it overpowered with decent ground dps, AA attacks and cloak. Why is that AA really that necessary?

Yet we never see that as banshees due to their low movement speed and limited micro potential just aren't that good.

If Wraiths actually can become a viable mid/late game harass unit then it willl just add another element to the game (even if you just have 3-5 Wraiths in one grup).

You can still have your main army (which you further can split into various groups), a couple of dropships, reapers and w/e to incentivize further multitasking (besides just harassing with wraiths). So it is imo not really neccesary to reward terrans for splitting up their individual wraiths as they already have a lot of multitask-options.

I agree, the anti air might be too much, against zerg, forcing overlords off the map. If you take away the aa, and give some way for wraith/speed banshees to function even when mutas/corsairs on the field, then I think that would be good.

No aa attack, ~16 damage to ground, speed on par with a mutalisk or corsair, cannot fire when cloaked, gains +1 speed while cloaked. Now, to argue why this unit doesn't smash face en-mass. It certainly is useful in small numbers.

In starbow. But you do in Sc2. Why is that so? Lower level of games (this one for sure) or banshees are just less viable?

Lategame has quite a lot of options for multitasking, but why limit them if we have option to not do so?

But banshees can funtion on map even when they are slower than mutas/sairs. They only need to be faster than overseers/observers.

Can I ask you how much sc2 you have watched? Banshees are never seen in HOTS anymore, and at the highlight of their career they were used in 1/1/1 builds and hellion/banshee early game harass vs zerg.
There never existed such a thing as using 3-4 banshees to harass your opponent in various places in the mid/late game at pro level.

On April 28 2013 21:43 decemberscalm wrote:
@Wraith vs Banshee
A wraith with a buffed attack (not on par with banshee) that is more maneuverable and fun to use would be amazing. My concern as Danko noted is the ability to cloak combined with an air attack, even if its weak (observers from my experience are not very good at taking rockets to the face). I know someone has already suggested, too lazy to go find out who (pretty sure Johnny ^^), nerfed cloak.

A wraith could have a an attack that is somewhere between bw wraith and sc2 banshee so it is actually viable off 1 port, better manuverability, but a cloak that only works in 1 short lived burst.

You could use this cloak to get away. This would be a hell of a lot more interesting than the "banshee in base, no detection, mineral line dead" effect that goes on.
Or we could just make that the banshee, since historically the banshee is the unit that is good at harassing ground units. It would just have an added weak air attack.

On April 29 2013 05:30 Danko__ wrote:


I have seen like 3 HOTS games at total i guess. I have stoped watching any sc2 games probably over one and half year ago. Back then they were used.

I agree on buffing their speed but wraiths with banshees dps (or anything close) are gonna be just broken (especially if you will allow terran to produce them at rate zerg can get units).

On April 29 2013 03:43 decemberscalm wrote:
What do you guys think of reverting to WoL? There is plenty of players who simply don't want to buy HOTS (no interest in playing vanilla hots SC2 melee), but would still play Starbow.

All we'd need to do is swap the viper model back, use a different model for the tempest (void ray perhaps), and make sure the map pool doesn't include HOTS material. I'd much rather have it more accessible meaning more players for the sake of two models.