About the tournament. I've done several updates on the liquipedia page (I will try to get it out of "userspace"). Check out my proposed tournament rules and feel free to disagree or add something if it's missing:

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/User:Xiphias/Starbow_1

There are 30€ at the moment in price money that has been vaguely promised by some of you. I will try to get this into to SC2 tournament section and more donations may come.

ONLY 4 slots left!!!!

Edit: I hope PunchTheBag meets KickTheNoob. That will be so fun to cast

BTW I will only cast from round 2.... so many games. If we can only get through round 1 throgh round 3 on saturday then more than halfed the games are played.

Traceback

United States469 Posts

February 10 2013 20:22 GMT

#4182

On February 11 2013 03:57 PunchTheBag wrote:
Yesterday i thought zerg is more powerful in late game than terran, but after this game i understood - vessels are extremly good against zerg tier3. Watch it please.
Of course, this map is terran-oriented in late, and on oter maps it was harder, but with good emount of vessels and good army composition terran can win lategame
http://drop.sc/303716

In that game you went almost pure hydra mid game vs tank heavy mech... Then you made no corruptors for your first pushes.

Why did you go hydra heavy instead of ling + dark swarm? Why no corruptors? Mech is suppose to crush mass hydra.

PunchTheBag

Russian Federation26 Posts

February 10 2013 21:15 GMT

#4183

ling requires upgrades, or they will damage almost nothing vs +3 armor mech. Maybe i need to made tripple upgrades to be able to switch, but i dont think that it will be OP.
Corruptors does not counter vessels, beecause die from irridate as well. And are expensive enough to make irridate cost-effficient. And T has goliaths.

I think hydra-bl is the best desision vs mech army. I will test other combinations to better research late tvz. Anyways, it is too early to say that late TvZ is imbalanced.

PunchTheBag

Russian Federation26 Posts

February 10 2013 21:16 GMT

#4184

But, tbh, i played terran not enough and can not be impartial.

JohnnyZerg

Italy378 Posts

February 10 2013 21:17 GMT

#4185

This is revelation ability, watch at 0:50

Big J

Austria16289 Posts

February 10 2013 21:28 GMT

#4186

Hi PunchTheBag, I'm Jay, so the Mech player from the replay.
Just a few things about that game:
-) you nearly always attacked uphill into what is basically my whole army (though overly spread out)
-) though I had quite some turrets to prevent exactly that, I believe that doomdroping into my main/natural area could have destroyed me
-) I think some corruptors with broodlords might have helped - I basically always had uncontested aircontrol in battles
-) you nearly broke me like one or two times... I believe there were moments when better reinforcing or just better/luckier combat results would have won you the game.

Sure all of that is easy to say after the game, but I just want to enforce that my gameplan absolutly was to "sit it out" after I saw the amounts of hydras you were building. If you hadn't attacked, I'm not sure if I would have been able to do so either. In the end a big factor on this map is simply that lategame is about 5base vs 5base with only very few direct ways to attack - something that I believe Terran is very comfortable with in direct combat, no matter of the actual zerg composition.

Xiphias

Norway2223 Posts

February 11 2013 09:31 GMT

#4187

Updated map-pool for the tournament. Requeim has been removed sinc it was a bit buggy. See http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/User:Xiphias/Starbow_1 for a complete map pool details for each round.

Kabel

Sweden1746 Posts

February 11 2013 11:08 GMT

#4188

Either today, tonight or tomorrow the last update before the tournament will be uploaded on EU. I will send it to NA and Korea as well. No more things with Starbow will be adjusted until the tournament is over. I will shrink the map pool so it only consists of the tournament maps.

JohnnyZerg

Italy378 Posts

February 11 2013 12:45 GMT

#4189

I edited requem symmetry and published it called Requem high main test. Try it and tell me what you think.
Upcoming changes:
the natural feel too close to the opponent's natural, i want move they.
make 3rd more accessible, there is only one way to go in 3rd, this route is very long and difficult to access for the opponent.
I want to maintain this and add 2 more shorter routes, unlockable through destructible rocks and minerals regenerative.
I want to add a ramp between the natural and the 3rd, I want to put in this ramp, regenerative mineral.
The other way is outside the natural, in a corner. I want to add a ramp largest with destructible rocks.
The player must decide how to defend 3rd:
Encircling putting the army out of the natural and the other part in 3rd;
Defend off the ramp of the natatural and 3rd;
Exploit a mass concentration of units in 3rd.
The advantages of the defender is the short distance there from the 3rd to the natural.
The advantages of the opponent are the big ramp down to the 3rd.

Thx for read.

Azelja

Japan762 Posts

February 11 2013 15:44 GMT

#4190

26 minute PvP, pretty interesting stuff here and there even though I played really fucking badly http://drop.sc/303949

Xiphias

Norway2223 Posts

February 11 2013 16:03 GMT

#4191

Something I forgot to post: What is your opinion? Should random players be forced to tell their race in the beginning of the match? None of us has practiced vs random when we do not know the race we play vs. I might edit in a poll if there are much disputations among you.

Kabel

Sweden1746 Posts

February 11 2013 16:51 GMT

#4192

The map pool has now been slimmed down to only contain the four tournament maps choosen by Xiphias:

Destination
Match Point
Blue Storm
The Shortest Straw

After the tournament the map pool will be rotated in some way. No further patches will be uploaded until the tournament is over. So if you happen to find any huuuuge imbalance, well.. no one can stop you from exploiting it ^^

@Playing random

Playing random is generally a disadvantage, since it is much harder to be able to master all different match ups, compared to a player who plays a main race. (Which of course can be hard too.) So I think the element of suprise and information is a small advantage for a random player. The opponent will not know for the first 2 minutes of the game... Unless the random player is a gentlemen and reveals his race

Azelja

Japan762 Posts

February 11 2013 17:15 GMT

#4193

I'd say revealing the race makes more sense, otherwise it might just turn into BO wins/losses due to random all-ins or extra greedy play that exploit certain "standard" builds. Plus it's just annoying to play a sub-optimal build due to having to play "safe against kinda everything but really bad in the long run" builds. FFE for example would then be pretty much not an option and I don't know if that is something that should be the case (?).

But that's just my opinion :p

Danko__

Poland429 Posts

February 11 2013 17:22 GMT

#4194

I think that there are much lower disproportions of skill with each race right now than typically in sc2, due to much less experience players have. So advantages of playing random are currently bigger (opponent not knowing what to expect), than disadvantages (having to learn how to play each race). But even so i think tournament should be as professional as possible. Everyone should do his best and abuse shit out it ^^. Imho: No for telling your race.

PunchTheBag

Russian Federation26 Posts

February 11 2013 17:22 GMT

#4195

Being a zerg, i can play vs random opponents without race revealing as well. But it is very hard to protoss players who needs make a decision between main play and FFE. So, my oppinion is revealing random race is more fair.

Traceback

United States469 Posts

February 11 2013 17:43 GMT

#4196

Why is match point there... It a nightmare for TvP because of the natural set up and blink or warp prism allins...

Xiphias

Norway2223 Posts

February 11 2013 17:52 GMT

#4197

Well Requiem was thought to be a nightmare as well.... we need more than 3 maps and hard grid is too similar as destination. We'll get a better map pool for next tournament

I am leaning towards on letting the random players stay quite about their race. It is the usual tournament custom if random is allowed. So start practicing vs random where they are not so gentleman-like