EPT[A] Starbow - Page 208
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
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Meerel
Germany713 Posts
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Meerel
Germany713 Posts
maybe add the mineral only back in just with 6 patches? | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
1. The advantage of having the tournament during a evening, or during a weekend, is that it can be used to attract more viewers. Maybe the TL admins can add info about it at the front page or something. Like "Starbow tournanent February 16... 6 o clock... Stream here: " Maybe someone can host a stream and send some games live. (Xiphias, December, Vrum, John Madden, MNDakota, Ulose?) For example, lets say there are 16 players in the tournament. (I just take a number) Everyone joins the Starbow chat channel, including observers, at 6 o clock on saturday evening. People play the games parallell to each other. After 1 hour, when all results have been reported in, its time for the next round.. Maybe the whole tournament can be played in the same evening. Or the final is played the day after.. Personally I would be able to do that. But it might be hard to pull through, due to all difficulties it might contain. 2. I have no economy but I can throw in 5 euro or something in a price pool anyway. If the price pool becomes a decent size, and we host a thread about it in the SC2 Tourneys sub-forum, then higher level players would probably be more interested in trying this. I mean, it can be an easy way to win some cash and a good motivation to attract more high level players.. | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
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Danko__
Poland429 Posts
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AmericanUmlaut
Germany2590 Posts
I'd be happy to pitch in for a prize pool. | ||
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
Lovely casts, great synergy between you two, good games <3 <3 <3 Regarding some of the things you mention: @Destination and Hard Grid I keep Destination and Hard Grid in the map pool on EU now temporarily. (I will send updated versions to NA on sunday, need to do some additional adjustments) I plan to only keep one of them since they are almost identical. I think Destination is better. But I it feels so lame if I only use BW maps in the map pool. : / @The glowing observer animation I want players to be able to spot the observer on the battlefield - both Protoss and the enemy player. If P attack into Lurkers, I want it to be possible for Zerg to Neural parsite or snipe the Observer in any way. It is usally very very hard to see the observer since it blends into the army.. (At least for me and I play on lowest settings.) Heck. I can´t even find my own observers when Terran drop vultures into my base! >.< The animation is created by XiA since he creates much of the content in the editor. (He is so much better than me at it) Personally I like his solution - the red pulsating observer! But if anyone have any concerns about it, feel free to share them ^^ @Blue storm Both games casted on Blue storm are old versions of the map. The latest version is so new that it makes the future feel old. Trolololol @Can Terran push vs Protoss in midgame? I hope so! I don´t want TvP to only be a game where Terran must reach a critical amount of units and THEN move out. Like its their only good option. | ||
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
>>>>> Nullifier <<<<<<< Yea yea I know that the unit is not a stroke of genius in terms of design. And I am not satisfied with it. But I was hoping no one would notice how useless it is so I do not have to care about it ^^ It is a unit that can be built quite early, without any tech requirements, but all three spells are very narrow. - Nullify drains all energy from target unit and converts that amount of energy into AoE - damage. It turns every spell caster into a potential bomb. The problem is that this spell is only useful once the enemy get spell casters! - Void Shell is weird but fun and very rarely actually good. I have seen players doing some nice micro attempts. It is still quite a bad and narrow spell mostly useful vs enemy siege tank lines. Compare it to Matrix that Medics have, which really is useful in lots of ways! - Vortex is the only spell that requires an upgrade. I imagine that this spell can be strong, mainly vs Zerg, since it only sucks in NON-armored units. Vs Terran it only sucks in Vultures, BIO and Vikings. Vs Protoss is only sucks in Zealots, HT, DT, Corsair, Scouts... Again, we have a very narrow spell that has a main purpose versus something specific. Most of the time the Nullifier is just a fat Jabba the Hut robot unit that hovers in the air. When I have them in the game I always think "What am I suppose to do with this?" I throw the question out here: What can be done with the unit to make it have a role in the Protoss army? Some possible things: - Make Nullify also be useful on other units that do NOT have energy. Stun them? Prevent them from attacking? Heal them? Slow them? Nullify them? Snipe them? Stun or disable buildings? - Buff the stats of Void Shell, Maybe make them last longer, cheaper to cast or something else.. - Vortex have the potential to be good. Its just rare to see the Nullifier in play since the starting spells are kinda useless. - Add some kind of Nullifier attack. The earlier version had an attack that could disable target unit so it could not attack. (But barely did any damage) It might be useful. The only problem is that it would overlap with Corsairs Anti Gravity beam thing. The pupose of it is to disable target ground unit! >.< | ||
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JohnnyZerg
Italy378 Posts
For me, the Nullifier is so good and it is. I think this unit has great potential. When I create Nullifier, I do it mainly to "void shell" on zea, split it and kill tank with cost efficient, or vs zerg (more efficient if zerg not has unit with make splash damage). Nullify i think is the secondary good speel: i can kill vessel and tanks under it, or corruptor and hydralisks under it. I have watch kabel kill 3 with 1 banshe nullify ^^ etc... I thought that you can kill drones near Queen. Vortex see it as a "stasis field" lighter, useful for temporarily remove some opposing units: lings / Hydras, bio / vulture. I think that this ability has its potential, however, you might consider an overlap with stasis field. I would not change anything about the Nullifier (now you know that a start of robotics saves you from banshee). Why didn't I think before? gl hf | ||
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Doominator10
United States515 Posts
Scouts are actually scouting XD rofl. Looking for mines and a little extra vision. (Also that rounded triforce looks awesome.) With those arbiters, I was actually trying to find a way past those missle turrets @ chrono's natural to recall in his main for a while. Hi-Sec missle turrets ftw. Then I got mad... I'm gonna be doing that overseer spine trick whenever I random as zerg from now :D. That is pretty neat. @Kabel , I feel like the nullifier kinda has a similar problem with the WoL Raven. It's spells seem like they can be really good... but the main spell (void shell) only comes when you wait about a minute or so after being built (100 nrg). The raven's seeker missle has/had an energy cost of 125. That's waiting 50 energy after building it before you get to its main useful spell. Personally, I think it would be enough to give a starting energy upgrade (+25 ok?) @ robotics bay. The ability to cast a nullify (really a niche spell) upon being built and then a void shell sooner rather than later after would be really nice. Right now, when I build a nullifier, I can't DO anything with it, and I'm not sure the spells are powerful enough to warrant the wait. BUT, since they aren't used a lot to begin with, I'm not sure if its ok to start trying to buff the individual spells themselves for balancing. Let's make it more appealing to use more often, and THEN buff / adjust the spells to see if there are any glaring weaknesses. (Or, barring that I would think that giving or void shell a guaranteed miss if it is focus fired off of the unit. As in the unit would lose its void shell, but take no damage from the attack that knocked it off. Benefits from having fast firing units focus void shelled units instead of slower units. Better???) | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
http://drop.sc/303255 For further nullifier analysis. (Especially the use of vortix). I have to say that I just went for the wrong tech though. Templars are so much stronger vs that kind of zerg style. PS: We need at least 3 (Edit:2) more players to host a tourament, who's in? | ||
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vrumFondel
Russian Federation42 Posts
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
I first and foremost want to check if enough people are INTERESTED in joining a potential tournament. I understand that some of the people who are signed up might not be able to play the actual tournament if it is set on a time and a day that is not good for them. So feel free to sign up even if you might not be available at the actual time of the tournament (a time which is unknown atm). Once we have enough people interested we will start to discuss time and place and maybe format. - Xiphias | ||
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serojja
Ukraine90 Posts
 Here is another thing: I don`t know how you did it, but I really really have a feeling that this is the only true successor for BW. SC2BW, for example, is a cool mod, but it gives me the feeling of the movie double... you know what I mean? It looks like original actor, same height, same clothing, he even tries to behave exactly like original one, but still... he is just a double, a mod... Sometimes people call Starbow a "mod" or a "map" but I just can`t call it this way... it feels very "independent" and "complete" to be called a map. Like a new game. PS: I am going to change my id in battle.net and tl.net to "serojja" since the old one was way too difficult for everyone to pronounce... even for me Hail Starbow! | ||
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
Good morning. Here is the easy solution: The really only useful and unique spell the Nullifier has is.. Nullify! (Aka Feedback) It is the only spell for Protoss that can snipe and destroy target unit. It is unique. Which can not be said about Void Shell and Vortex... Void Shell and Hallucinations do roughly the same thing - make Protoss able to attack into the enemy army. Vortex and Stasis Field do almost the same thing - disable units in an area. Protoss can already do what Void Shell and Vortex can do! The easy way would be to scrap the Nullifier completely. Instead Nullify is added to the Scout. This would further strentghen the use of that unit - it would be a strong anti-armored-air unit AND it will be able to deal with enemy spell casters. More reasons for players to build it. (Probably the spell can be renamed and get a new projectile model so it fits with the Scout) IF and when "Heart of the Starbow" is released, Protoss can get a new caster unit at that time. If so, it will be a unit that is actually useful for Protoss and fit what they might need. Maybe there are ideas from HoTS that can be added into a potential new unit. When I forced the Nullifier into the game I was certain that Starbow Protoss would feel empty, naked and lame with only two major casters - High Templar and Arbiter. But I think Protoss is doing fine with only them! Its still a fun race to play, and from what I have heard, not many have complained about Protoss being boring. The only negative thing is that I would mess up Xiphias promo-video in the opening post. He shows the Nullifier and it would no longer be in the game, which might cause some confusion. : / Is there no alternative? We must save the Nullifier! Well, the Nullifier really needs a huge improvement or redesign. Here is the crucial concern: Even if Void Shell and Nullify were free to cast, Protoss would barely have anything to do with the Nullifer. Again, Nullify is maybe useful in mid or lategame at rare occasions. Yes, Void Shell is cool and fun. But it is not an important spell. Compare it to other protection spells in the game - Matrix and Dark Swarm. Those are really strong, worth to invest resources in and worth to spend APM on! In most scenarios, Protoss can just attack into any enemy position no matter if they use Void Shell or not. (They can just use Stasis Field, Warp Prism drops, Hallucination or Archons to soak up damage.. ) The Nullifier has no life. It is a unit that hovers above the death ball. It can not do anything on its own, there is no reason to fly anywhere with it, except above the army. It has no spells that can really change the game! Compare it to High Templar, Arbiter, Infestor, Swarm Guardian, Vessel and even Ghost! All of their spells have the potential to do amazingly effective things in the game. Most importantly, these casters are always useful. If anyone has any ideas on how to improve the Nullifier, please share them. Otherwise it will probably face it¨s doom in the coming days... @serojananda Glad to have you back! | ||
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JohnnyZerg
Italy378 Posts
On February 05 2013 10:18 decemberscalm wrote: I'm not sure damage reduction will work. It skews upgrades. Damage reduction WILL work, if and ONLY if, the armor gets subtracted from the damage before the 50% or whatever percent reduction in damage. Lets take a marine for example. 6 damage, minus 1 armor=5 damage. Over the course of 100 attacks this should average to 250 damage. 6 damage minus 1 armor first=5 damage. Then we apply 50 percent reduction: 5/2=2.5. Over 100 attacks, yet again, 250 damage. What happens if we apply damage reduction first? 6/2=3. Minus the armor=3-1=2. Over a hundred attacks? Only 200 damage. Why does this matter? Because 1 point of armor skews the amount of attacks required to kill a unit by an incredible amount when used on the high ground. It also favors burst damage as opposed to faster attacks like that of a marine. You'd be nerfing the marines ability to attack up, but not the stalker as much. Why is this? The armor gets applied to every attack instead of only 50% of the time. I'd be perfectly happy with a damage reduction, as long as armor is applied first. Unless I'm mistaken, using triggers this might not be possible. Change reasoning, not reduce the damage inflicted but reduce the damage suffered by the unit. there is a difference. When a unit takes damage is considered to be the armor, so that damage can be reduced in%. I saw in the editor, I do not know if I say, but the activator unit must be unit that undergoes damaged and not the attacking unit. In this way, the unit inflicts 100%, then the armor is calculated, and then the damage is reduced by the 50%. @Nullifier Remove unit, is reduce the number of strategies, even if they are not very effective. I'm always opposed to remove unit. Especially now that I know how to counter banshee with an opening robo. Nullify on scout does not work, because scouts can destroy fly caster, and when accompanied by a corsair, can kill some ground caster away from the army. I have yet to try to kill drones, using nullify on queen. The Nullifier is a unit to discover, and does not cost much. there is nothing to be gained, if you remove it, but we can only lose. gl hf Edit: suggestion for replace vortex cost 100: cast range 10 radius effect:2.5 work only on not armored enemy units (work on fly units ). work only on 10 units. Description: units are targeted teleported and stunned for 5 seconds, you have feet of Nullifier. Consider it as Abduct splash of viper. I know it not is a nice ability, but it could create interesting situations, and counteract the escape of enemy units. | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
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