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[A] Starbow - Page 209

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
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fietstas
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands43 Posts
February 09 2013 13:42 GMT
#4161
a game vs danko just now, i reccomend u watch it

http://drop.sc/303298
Danko__
Profile Joined January 2012
Poland429 Posts
February 09 2013 13:56 GMT
#4162
Not a single siege was given this day ^^.
Chronopolis
Profile Joined April 2009
Canada1484 Posts
February 09 2013 16:38 GMT
#4163
Count me in for the tournament:

I'll play PvT, TvZ, TvP if that's alright
Doominator10
Profile Joined August 2012
United States515 Posts
February 09 2013 17:45 GMT
#4164
I'm interested for the tourney :D Sign me up. (Though I can't guarantee that my schedule will be ok for it, which is saddening T_T). I'm RvX, all matches are ok :D.

Your DOOM has arrived,,,, and is handing out cookies
Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-09 18:14:07
February 09 2013 17:51 GMT
#4165
"This was suppose to be a secret tournament, one can hardly keep you two apart" - Lord Elrond

OK. I now have 9 players so I think I will do the following. I want to have the first round of games next Saturday (16th of Feb) at 6 pm CET (central European time) if possible. And if needed a second round the following Saturday. This means that the last chance to sign up will be Friday 15th of Feb. If less than 16 players sign up I'll still make a RO16 with some random players receiving a bye.

I'll edit the liquipedia page and see if I can post this in the tournament section to add more players.

I don't want to have too long time between people first signing up and the actual event. If this becomes small and insignificant, so be it. We can always organize more tournaments in the future.

Casting. I want to cast all the games, at least from RO8 and up, but I do not want to stream since I'll probably be busy with other aspects and my CPU can't really handle it that well. So if anyone has time to stream live next saturday from 6pm let me know.

Art. If anyone wants to make a fancy banner and even come up with a name for this tournament feel free to PM me with suggestions. I prefer if you PM about signing up so we don't fill up this forum with "I want to play" posts. If no name is suggested I will call this the "Casual Starbow tournament - season 1".

Feel free to post suggestions, I am relatively new in this task.
aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
vrumFondel
Profile Joined November 2012
Russian Federation42 Posts
February 09 2013 18:43 GMT
#4166
I think i can stream games from tournament (ofc if there wouldn't be too hard technical issues).
Doominator10
Profile Joined August 2012
United States515 Posts
February 09 2013 19:16 GMT
#4167
OK, so CET is... 6hours ahead of EST?

ARRG these time zones hurt my head T_T. We need a universal blizzard time.
Your DOOM has arrived,,,, and is handing out cookies
Roblin
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden948 Posts
February 09 2013 19:22 GMT
#4168
@Nullifier topic:

I have a couple ideas that I don't think are too drastic, it changes how a few spells work but not what they are intended to be used for, and opens up some new possibilities at the same time.

nullify: keep as is.

vortex: keep as is or remove.

void shell: affected units are not benign, instead they are invisible for the same or a slightly longer duration than right now.

merge nullifier with warp prism: i.e. either warp prism has the above abilities, or nullifier can carry units and deploy an energy field. whichever unit is not chosen to be used is removed.

that would:
1. make void shell a defensive spell that does essentially the same thing, but is ineffective if enemy has detection.
2. gives nullifier a purpose away from the army (as a dropship)

basicly, it would make the nullifier more of a utility role.

however, does the invisible units void shell overlap with arbiters cloaking field? maybe. but an obvious difference is the fact that void shell can send units away from the nullifier while they stay invisible, such as dropping/warping in a few units in a remote location of the map, proceed to void shell said units to break a contain from a weird angle or surprise the enemy by infiltrating territory.
the main difference would be that it ends up being more polarized, either the opponent can deal with it (has detection nearby) or not (has no detection nearby) as opposed to the benign void shell which can always be dealt with in some shape or form.

also, merging warp prism with nullifier would not do anything too weird with tech, they are both built from robo, though I'm not sure if nullifier requires further tech than warp prism does.

Just my thoughts
// Roblin
I'm better today than I was yesterday!
Doominator10
Profile Joined August 2012
United States515 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-09 20:34:56
February 09 2013 20:29 GMT
#4169
potential nullifier idea:

Void Trap: { (# = not final)
Nullifier puts a aura around a target unit. The next (2) seconds of shots on that unit are shared between the unit and the attackers for (25%) and (50%) damage respectively. If the unit dies while trapped, then the killer(s) are stunned for (1.5)seconds.

Sounds a little convoluted (just a tad I think.)

Basically, this is a retribution style spell. Meaning that If enemies Z,Q, and F attacks my unit X, than unit X takes 25% of what he would have taken while enemy Z,Q, and F take 50% of what they individually would have dealt to unit X.

It is a single target cast that requires in-battle twitch reaction time, which is something I think is lacking to protoss outside of blink... maybe storm too. It's a bit more interesting than a straight overshield, and maybe a bit more consistent than void-shell. I've never used Vortex yet so I can't really say much about it.

}

Just tossing around ideas. Though to be honest I kinda feel like the nullifier is a decent stepping-stone caster to the other higher tech ones. Even if the spells are a tad bit redundant, you can get them earlier for a less expensive unit, at the cost of needing some more EPM to use effectively.

Your DOOM has arrived,,,, and is handing out cookies
PunchTheBag
Profile Joined October 2012
Russian Federation26 Posts
February 09 2013 21:35 GMT
#4170
Starbow group on a russian analog of facebook - http://vk.com/starbow
If Kabel want to join this group as an admin - please, write there. It was created to popularize this mod
The application "Crash Reporter" has quit unexpectedly
decemberscalm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1353 Posts
February 09 2013 22:35 GMT
#4171
On February 09 2013 21:49 JohnnyZerg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 05 2013 10:18 decemberscalm wrote:
I'm not sure damage reduction will work. It skews upgrades.

Damage reduction WILL work, if and ONLY if, the armor gets subtracted from the damage before the 50% or whatever percent reduction in damage.

Lets take a marine for example.
6 damage, minus 1 armor=5 damage. Over the course of 100 attacks this should average to 250 damage.
6 damage minus 1 armor first=5 damage. Then we apply 50 percent reduction: 5/2=2.5. Over 100 attacks, yet again, 250 damage.


What happens if we apply damage reduction first?
6/2=3. Minus the armor=3-1=2. Over a hundred attacks? Only 200 damage.

Why does this matter?

Because 1 point of armor skews the amount of attacks required to kill a unit by an incredible amount when used on the high ground. It also favors burst damage as opposed to faster attacks like that of a marine. You'd be nerfing the marines ability to attack up, but not the stalker as much. Why is this? The armor gets applied to every attack instead of only 50% of the time.


I'd be perfectly happy with a damage reduction, as long as armor is applied first. Unless I'm mistaken, using triggers this might not be possible.

Change reasoning, not reduce the damage inflicted but reduce the damage suffered by the unit. there is a difference.
When a unit takes damage is considered to be the armor, so that damage can be reduced in%.
I saw in the editor, I do not know if I say, but the activator unit must be unit that undergoes damaged and not the attacking unit.

In this way, the unit inflicts 100%, then the armor is calculated, and then the damage is reduced by the 50%.
.



I've been toying with various ways of doing damage reduction.

From what I can tell:
When you apply a behavior to a unit that reduces damage taken, the armor is still calculated first. That is extremely problematic.

A work around I've seen is based on gaining hp or shields for every point of damage taken. This is also problematic. You have a transition point between shields and hp. Behaviors work reactively so the hp will be healed after damage taken, so a fatal shot will never be reduced to a non fatal shot.

The actual trigger we use is SO close to working. Unfortunately it is limited to silly options like none, full, minimal (10 percent), double, or mega.



Anybody have any luck with this?
JohnnyZerg
Profile Joined July 2012
Italy378 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-10 13:53:05
February 10 2013 00:10 GMT
#4172
The actual trigger we use is SO close to working. Unfortunately it is limited to silly options like none, full, minimal (10 percent), double, or mega.


I know it, if you enter a fraction number example: 1/2 ,maybe could work.

Replay:

JohnnyZerg (Z) vs Moi (T)
http://drop.sc/303469
winner: + Show Spoiler +
JohnnyZerg. I used Spanishiwa (sc2 build), I got a great income and led me to victory.


Moi (T) vs pусского друга (Z)
http://drop.sc/303459
winner: + Show Spoiler +
My russian friend win. He won thanks to broodlord tech. Irradiation has been great, but corruptor kill vessels.
Fishgle
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States2174 Posts
February 10 2013 02:35 GMT
#4173
I say let's just leave it as %miss chance.

For nullifier, they need some kind of passive use, something that doesnt require energy, so that we can have a more active game. SciVessels have detection, Arbiters cloak, HT merge into archons, Swarm Guardians Devour, Queens can attack, Medics Heal, Ghosts are versatile as fuck with snipe and an attack and Nukes, Infestors... can't really do much without spells. But their spells are all extremely good, so I don't think it matters too much. If you look at BW, the least used casters were Queens, Ghosts, and Dark Archons, since they were mostly only useful for 1 purpose, and it required energy.

I propose giving the Nullifier a guardian shield (like the sc2 sentry) as a passive ability, giving you reasons to have one around, even if it has no energy yet. And then you can have Nullify + ??? as its active spells. That way, it won't matter how niche the Nullifier's spells are, the Unit itself will still be useful.
aka ChillyGonzalo / GnozL
Doominator10
Profile Joined August 2012
United States515 Posts
February 10 2013 02:46 GMT
#4174
How about making the nullifier a mobile shield battery?

Give it a channel that restores shields to target friendly unit. (Uses energy? Maybe maybe not.)
Your DOOM has arrived,,,, and is handing out cookies
decemberscalm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1353 Posts
February 10 2013 03:35 GMT
#4175
On February 10 2013 09:10 JohnnyZerg wrote:
Show nested quote +
The actual trigger we use is SO close to working. Unfortunately it is limited to silly options like none, full, minimal (10 percent), double, or mega.


I know it, if you enter a fraction number example: 1/2 ,maybe could work.

Replay:

JohnnyZerg (Z) vs Moi (T)
http://drop.sc/303469
winner: JohnnyZerg. + Show Spoiler +
I used Spanishiwa (sc2 build), I got a great income and led me to victory.


Moi (T) vs pусского друга (Z)
http://drop.sc/303459
winner: + Show Spoiler +
My russian friend win. He won thanks to broodlord tech. Irradiation has been great, but corruptor kill vessels.

That's the problem. It doesn't let you specify a number. Instead you are limited to set choices.
Chronopolis
Profile Joined April 2009
Canada1484 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-10 08:29:09
February 10 2013 08:23 GMT
#4176
Nullifier produces a field around a point. All enemies in that field do not regen hp naturaully, can not be healed. Units, including spell casters within the field cannot use their abilities. Any upgrades such as attack or defense upgrades for units and buildings, are rendered null for the duration of the field. (check current upgrade levels and debuff the armor accordingly?). Detectors do not detect while under this field.

Take any 2 of these 4 ideas and you got something. It's something that makes protoss able to stand up, especially in the lategame, without using aoe splash.

Active buffs applied on units before they enter the field probably should remain unaffected, or at the very most suppressed.

Think about it, nullfie around a PF, that removes repair capabilities, and PF armor + the building armor. That lets a force of say 14 supply of gateway take out the pf, given some time.

Danko__
Profile Joined January 2012
Poland429 Posts
February 10 2013 14:49 GMT
#4177
Give nulifier Force field. Long duration but targetable with hps. Flying unit + Force field with hps= force field +entomb at once. Can be used with army and to harras :D
Kabel
Profile Joined September 2009
Sweden1746 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-10 16:24:59
February 10 2013 16:24 GMT
#4178
EU updated.


Biggest change is that the Nullifier has been removed. The Nullifiy ability has been renamed and moved to the Scout.


I know some of you have come with nice ideas to save the Nullifier. But at this stage I do not really feel like messing around even more with the unit and its spells. I really just wanna get on to polish the balance and make the MOD enjoyable. Like as good as I am capable of. HoTS will be released in 2 months. If anyone (including me) still care about Starbow during that time, I can add new units then. After all, the spells Vortex and Void Shell are still in the file and can be found in the editor. So they can maybe be ressurected in the future.
Creator of Starbow
Traceback
Profile Joined October 2010
United States469 Posts
February 10 2013 18:06 GMT
#4179
Maybe we can shift to some discussion about how zerg lategame seems so much stronger than terran late game. Is it because of a meta issue, map issue, or balance issue?

In short, ultras tear up bio. Broodlord corruptor does really good vs mech and isn't beat by irradiate + anti-air as you would expect (though still possible). Additionally, zerg can switch between the two compositions much faster than terran can drastically adjust theirs.

Is this a problem?
PunchTheBag
Profile Joined October 2012
Russian Federation26 Posts
February 10 2013 18:57 GMT
#4180
Maybe we can shift to some discussion about how zerg lategame seems so much stronger than terran late game.+ Show Spoiler +
Is it because of a meta issue, map issue, or balance issue?

In short, ultras tear up bio. Broodlord corruptor does really good vs mech and isn't beat by irradiate + anti-air as you would expect (though still possible). Additionally, zerg can switch between the two compositions much faster than terran can drastically adjust theirs.

Is this a problem?

Yesterday i thought zerg is more powerful in late game than terran, but after this game i understood - vessels are extremly good against zerg tier3. Watch it please.
Of course, this map is terran-oriented in late, and on oter maps it was harder, but with good emount of vessels and good army composition terran can win lategame
http://drop.sc/303716
The application "Crash Reporter" has quit unexpectedly
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