On October 09 2012 17:49 JohnMadden wrote: I think this map has been suggested yesterday during one of the games: (2) Astro Haze, it looks and feels really good.
Also, as a [D/Q] part of the thread, I need ideas on how to make bio or bio/tank work against pure mech in TvT; so far I thought of presiege aggression and some neat usage of dropships/nerve jammers (so good!). Have you got any other ideas, drop them at me.
There's a couple ways you can go about crushing mech terran with bio but its very difficult without the marauder. First off you're going to have to abuse mech mobility. Mech armies are very immobile and rely on the siege line with vulture aggression . You're going to have to keep up the aggression on drop plays to force the mech army to love around the map to respond to your drops. Dual prong attacks would be ideal killing key tech (tech labs, armory) and economy. Secondly you will need some sort of mech of your own. Science vessels nerve jammed is a must to not get shredded by tank lines. Your own tanks will be of great use as well. Third, ghost has lockdown, use it pre engagement. Vs a mech terran your army is going to be a lot cheaper than your opponent so abuse that. Lockdown his tanks and combination or lockdown some and nerve some then stim in for the kill. Regardless what you decide to do you must exploit the mech immobility. Good luck
Really like this mod. Ok so there's going to be some confirmation bias in a thread about a mod that styles itself as the new sc2, but still. So far it hits a nice spot between BW-replica and new developments, minus the really stupid ones - medivacs, collo, hellions (replaced with vultures which are JUST BETTER) &c.
I can see how Blizzard just couldn't make BW 1.5 like this, but that's what mods are for. Keep up the good work Kabel.
Fighting Spirit will be really bad in starbow. In BW the bases didn't mine out so quickly. If you contain or you are vs Z you have no safe way to get a fourth.
edit: Matches with Capn America vs Freeze are pretty clear Z has a huge advantage because of not running dry since he already has extra bases to mine from.
Just sent out Fighting Spirit. Yeah, I know it's probably not going to be good for Starbow as it stands now, but I can change it around (i.e. easier 4th). I suppose I'll have to rename it then; it'll be like Lost Temple --> Shattered Temple haha.
I can't really cement my thoughts on Z, its so volatile. By all appearances though, it seems like its way easier to roll over people using Z, which most people agree upon, but against better players its an actual match (though it could have some problems).
I'll hopefully get some casting done tomorrow of some of our matches.
On October 10 2012 11:18 purakushi wrote: Just sent out Fighting Spirit. Yeah, I know it's probably not going to be good for Starbow as it stands now, but I can change it around (i.e. easier 4th). I suppose I'll have to rename it then; it'll be like Lost Temple --> Shattered Temple haha.
On October 10 2012 11:18 purakushi wrote: Just sent out Fighting Spirit. Yeah, I know it's probably not going to be good for Starbow as it stands now, but I can change it around (i.e. easier 4th). I suppose I'll have to rename it then; it'll be like Lost Temple --> Shattered Temple haha.
On October 10 2012 20:38 lefix wrote: I just noticed the plague ability also works on buildings and even destructible rocks :D not sure if that's intended
buildings maybe (it did in BW) but on rocks that's kinda funny and likely unintended, them rock got a coaled
On October 10 2012 20:38 lefix wrote: I just noticed the plague ability also works on buildings and even destructible rocks :D not sure if that's intended
buildings maybe (it did in BW) but on rocks that's kinda funny and likely unintended, them rock got a coaled
Fighting Spirit is a great map for this, just needs more time to adapt. It's a lot like Antiga Shipyard in the sense that after your fast 3 bases, where you decide to take your 4th determins how the late game will go. Not every map should have your 2-5 bases layed out in order , should require some thought on some maps and fighting spirit provides that. Only thing I don't like is that it's not forced cross spawns. All maps should be forced cross, just my opinion though.
On October 11 2012 01:27 ArkussSC2 wrote: Fighting Spirit is a great map for this, just needs more time to adapt. It's a lot like Antiga Shipyard in the sense that after your fast 3 bases, where you decide to take your 4th determins how the late game will go. Not every map should have your 2-5 bases layed out in order , should require some thought on some maps and fighting spirit provides that. Only thing I don't like is that it's not forced cross spawns. All maps should be forced cross, just my opinion though.
I like the map, and I agree with you, too. Though, I think it'd be better if each base had more resources, not sure where everyone stands on resources per base (now: 1000 and 3000).
Also, just wanted to note that, I forced cross spawns on that Fighting Spirit map. I know in BW they didn't, but decided it would be better for Starbow. Can change later, if necessary.
On October 11 2012 01:27 ArkussSC2 wrote: Fighting Spirit is a great map for this, just needs more time to adapt. It's a lot like Antiga Shipyard in the sense that after your fast 3 bases, where you decide to take your 4th determines how the late game will go. Not every map should have your 2-5 bases laid out in order , should require some thought on some maps and fighting spirit provides that. Only thing I don't like is that it's not forced cross spawns. All maps should be forced cross, just my opinion though.
The difference is that with Antiga, the third is very easily defended by anything. A mech player, or a turtling player of any kind is able to secure it without needed a huge supply advantage. For Fighting Spirit, the third is very distant, and the ramp tiny. This promotes counter attacks and leaves the meching player without any option but to go for a 2 base all-in. This is especially pointed out by the silly 1000 mineral fields. ( I will go into detail below). So all in all, it would lead to a very all-innish map, and not played on nearly as much as Sacred Sands.
About 1000 mineral fields, and to an extent, 3000 gas geysers. As stated by Kabel in the first post on the front page, he feels that Terran should be one of those very "my territory" races. This leads to mobility decreased, and the power of siege tanks increasing. He is basically saying that mech and to an extent, biomech, is the ideal situation for Terran. I have no problem with this.
What 1000 mineral fields, and 3000 gas geysers as saying is; you have to expand. You have to or you will die. This means you have to be mobile. You have to be able to defend those bases. Zerg is able to do this, they have movement boosting creep spread, the have some of the fastest units in the game, and their entire army is based off mobility.
With the introduction of the non-splash planetary (Or the planetary that actually can't defend against anything past 1 zergling or a zealot) and making Terran unable to play mech, and unable to play bio. Terran just gets to do a ton of damage off two bases. They better hope that had practically won from there because past that they will be at a disadvantage.
If you do not agree with me, and are able to get on NA. I would prefer to discuss it over there as I don't frequent the forums here.
Also, as regard to the front page. A lot of the images need to be updated. The first one states that you get 7 workers, new players might think Starbow is bugged. The Protoss one has the HT spells wrong. The Zerg one has the Infestor spells wrong. The Terran one is fine.
I think it the older replays should be removed, and maybe something advising about the metagame? I know that would be hard, but a new player is completely unaware about what they should do. It can be quite bad for both the Veterans and the new player.
Look kabel m8 ... there is a problem... you have SC2 and BW protoss and zerg and Bw terran...
terran have problem vs zealots immortals and phoenix (crosair) as i can see from this few games..
there is no proper conter to them atm... i see maby goliath to be good vs crosair ? or immortals with his atc dont activate immortal shilds... for zealots you need to bring hellions (blue flame atc) + spider mines (hellion to have both)
i like to see unite to conter zealots good and immortals simply Spells cant fix gameplay it will brake it if you dont have proper unite conter...
its not good and cost efective to went from factory to baracs to be able to conter immortals made marines or corsair... that is problem in gameplay that i see... i think factory unites need to have that ability...without marines...(marines die fast combined with mech simply you dont have resorces to spend on mass medics to support then,,,
thx for reading hope i help you to see where is the problem...
On October 11 2012 09:37 bole wrote: Look kabel m8 ... there is a problem... you have SC2 and BW protoss and zerg and Bw terran...
terran have problem vs zealots immortals and phoenix (crosair) as i can see from this few games..
there is no proper conter to them atm... i see maby goliath to be good vs crosair ? or immortals with his atc dont activate immortal shilds... for zealots you need to bring hellions (blue flame atc) + spider mines (hellion to have both)
i like to see unite to conter zealots good and immortals simply Spells cant fix gameplay it will brake it if you dont have proper unite conter...
its not good and cost efective to went from factory to baracs to be able to conter immortals made marines or corsair... that is problem in gameplay that i see... i think factory unites need to have that ability...without marines...(marines die fast combined with mech simply you dont have resorces to spend on mass medics to support then,,,
thx for reading hope i help you to see where is the problem...
What server are you on? That could be a lot of the problems. Most of the problems your listing are just countered by the good ole' strategy of just making basic mech units and killing them.
On October 11 2012 09:37 bole wrote: Look kabel m8 ... there is a problem... you have SC2 and BW protoss and zerg and Bw terran...
terran have problem vs zealots immortals and phoenix (crosair) as i can see from this few games..
there is no proper conter to them atm... i see maby goliath to be good vs crosair ? or immortals with his atc dont activate immortal shilds... for zealots you need to bring hellions (blue flame atc) + spider mines (hellion to have both)
i like to see unite to conter zealots good and immortals simply Spells cant fix gameplay it will brake it if you dont have proper unite conter...
its not good and cost efective to went from factory to baracs to be able to conter immortals made marines or corsair... that is problem in gameplay that i see... i think factory unites need to have that ability...without marines...(marines die fast combined with mech simply you dont have resorces to spend on mass medics to support then,,,
thx for reading hope i help you to see where is the problem...
Mech can fight zealot immortal no problem.
For toss to succeed he has to flank, drop, and make absolutely sure his units are not spread out enough.
Vultures have mines, can kill zealots, take damage in place of the tanks, properly spread out siege tanks in conjunction with vulture is going to be extremely cost inefficient for the toss player to try to kill. You need a couple gol's and you are corsair safe. Its not about hard counters, its about positioning, flanking, and getting whatever edge you can be it drops, nerve jammer, etc.
edit:Lucky for you I've got four TvP's to let you see just how effective mech can be vs Toss even with Immortal.
Three matches between Freeze and Horus, I did another cast that's still uploading (fun base race between me and Freeze when he was still getting familiar with the match up).
EPT
