• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:28
CET 07:28
KST 15:28
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
2026 KongFu Cup Announcement0BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled10Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains12Weekly Cups (March 2-8): ByuN overcomes PvT block4GSL CK - New online series18
StarCraft 2
General
BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT Terran AddOns placement Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains
Tourneys
2026 KongFu Cup Announcement [GSL CK] Team Maru vs. Team herO StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) WardiTV Team League Season 10 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 516 Specter of Death Mutation # 515 Together Forever Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL21 General Discussion BW General Discussion Gypsy to Korea Are you ready for ASL 21? Hype VIDEO
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL22] Open Qualifiers & Ladder Tours IPSL Spring 2026 is here! ASL Season 21 Qualifiers March 7-8
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Fighting Spirit mining rates Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread No Man's Sky (PS4 and PC)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Mexico's Drug War Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread NASA and the Private Sector
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread General nutrition recommendations Cricket [SPORT] TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Gaming-Related Deaths
TrAiDoS
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1759 users

[M] (2) ESV Guardian - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
Timetwister22
Profile Joined March 2011
United States538 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-05 20:08:38
January 05 2012 19:52 GMT
#21
The low ground third is pretty much immune to 2 base pushes. Sure toss and terran could go down there, but it puts them so far out of position it really wouldn't be worth it. Much like a zerg taking a 5 on metal or shattered. If any 2 base play were to come for you, it would probably hit at your natural.
Former ESV Mapmaker | @Timetwister22
Antares777
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1971 Posts
January 05 2012 20:12 GMT
#22
I'd like to add onto what I said earlier.

Besides the main and natural, all of the expansions are third bases, either for you or your opponent. There are no expansions that aren't considered a possible third. This limits splits to the exact same way every game. The order at which they will expand to these areas can be different, but a horizontal line through the middle will pretty much be the dividing line in all of the games.

This is actually a bad thing in my opinion. It eliminates the possibility of having future expansions covering existing ones. This means that as you continue to expand, you continue to get more and more vulnerable, much more than on other maps. This is especially bad for Protoss because they are the least mobile. I think in the future, putting collapsable rocks on this map would be a good idea. Protoss will not be able to defend past 3 bases and it will be difficult for them to defend past the natural, but certainly not impossible.

The lack of towers on this map I think makes this situation even worse, because having more attack paths towards late game than on most maps with the absence of towers being able to spot a moving army will make this map a more aggressive oriented map.

I feel that a good way to improve this map would be to scrap its current middle and stretch the map vertically and add one or two expansions that do not function as alternate thirds, but more like the fourth or fifth expansion. Having them cover certain paths and cover preexisting expansions would be a good idea.

With that said, I strongly feel that one of the smarter things that you have done with this map is put the ramp into the safe thirds in the middle of the map. This makes it so that attacking the third there is more of a commitment and adds to the importance of destroying the rocks for the defending player. I commend you on this decision, it was really smart, and how the third on Xel'naga Caverns should have been created.
Timetwister22
Profile Joined March 2011
United States538 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-05 21:01:02
January 05 2012 20:34 GMT
#23
On January 06 2012 05:12 Antares777 wrote:
I'd like to add onto what I said earlier.

Besides the main and natural, all of the expansions are third bases, either for you or your opponent. There are no expansions that aren't considered a possible third. This limits splits to the exact same way every game. The order at which they will expand to these areas can be different, but a horizontal line through the middle will pretty much be the dividing line in all of the games.

This is actually a bad thing in my opinion. It eliminates the possibility of having future expansions covering existing ones. This means that as you continue to expand, you continue to get more and more vulnerable, much more than on other maps. This is especially bad for Protoss because they are the least mobile. I think in the future, putting collapsable rocks on this map would be a good idea. Protoss will not be able to defend past 3 bases and it will be difficult for them to defend past the natural, but certainly not impossible.

The lack of towers on this map I think makes this situation even worse, because having more attack paths towards late game than on most maps with the absence of towers being able to spot a moving army will make this map a more aggressive oriented map.

I feel that a good way to improve this map would be to scrap its current middle and stretch the map vertically and add one or two expansions that do not function as alternate thirds, but more like the fourth or fifth expansion. Having them cover certain paths and cover preexisting expansions would be a good idea.

With that said, I strongly feel that one of the smarter things that you have done with this map is put the ramp into the safe thirds in the middle of the map. This makes it so that attacking the third there is more of a commitment and adds to the importance of destroying the rocks for the defending player. I commend you on this decision, it was really smart, and how the third on Xel'naga Caverns should have been created.


I fear adding more expansions will cause circle syndrome. I'm currently looking at how I can add more without giving the map circle syndrome. As of right now, Protoss can get 4 bases quite nicely, it's the fifth that's difficult and rightly so in my opinion.

EDIT: No guarantee I will add bases. The map has been playing fine so far.

Also, updated map for Version 0.6
Former ESV Mapmaker | @Timetwister22
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
Code For Giants Cup #28
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 132
ProTech131
SortOf 59
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 30148
ToSsGirL 98
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm189
resolut1ontv 184
LuMiX0
League of Legends
JimRising 664
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K602
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King95
Other Games
summit1g8822
C9.Mang0607
WinterStarcraft418
RuFF_SC244
Liquid`Ken15
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1193
ComeBackTV 96
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• practicex 31
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo2393
• Stunt498
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
3h 33m
RSL Revival
3h 33m
MaxPax vs Rogue
Clem vs Bunny
WardiTV Team League
5h 33m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
10h 33m
BSL
13h 33m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 3h
RSL Revival
1d 3h
ByuN vs SHIN
Maru vs Krystianer
WardiTV Team League
1d 5h
Patches Events
1d 10h
BSL
1d 13h
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
1d 17h
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
OSC
2 days
WardiTV Team League
3 days
GSL
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
WardiTV Team League
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
WardiTV Team League
6 days
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-13
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
BSL Season 22
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

CSL Elite League 2026
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
2026 Changsha Offline CUP
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
CSLAN 4
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
NationLESS Cup
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.