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On November 10 2011 01:37 Samro225am wrote:Dear Timetwister22, author of the playtesters' favourite Haven's Lagoon, if you are interested I would love to help you make your map better looking, either by giving you a visual design coaching via Skype or by working over your textures (and doodads) myself. Also it seems my teammates have a lot of energy and I hope their energy can be put into something usefull (hi team, i know you are up to it! you do not want to leave aesthetics to ESV  ) on another note: did you copy and rotate Ride of Valkyries? - Dear Judges, it is the third time I get in a "MotM" final and I am really happy that my simple, functional layout was chosen, although I misinterpret the rules and mixed a tileset for badassvisuals (; - Mereel, I understand your point and share your opinion (partly) regarding some map's visual design, but you can't accuse the judges of not presenting ''the very best that the community could offer.'' while you present yourself like an embittered looser. - Team ESV, congratulation beating us 3:2. Next time we will make more 2v2 maps for easy bonuspoints - Looking forward to the tournament and stream.This is were the really good playing and good looking maps shine 
+ 1 !
User was warned for this post
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On November 10 2011 01:47 dudecrush wrote:Calling it now: Burning Altar is gonna win because blizz loves destructible rocks... 
did you check the mapthread or play the map? do you understand how the rocks work?
I tried to find a concept to make rocks work in a way they do not destroy, but help gameplay. With advancing matches both sides (attacker, defender) want to break the rocks, some races more, some less, dependaning on playstyle and army composition.
rocks are not an instant win with blizz and should not be an instant loss for people caring for SC2. We jsut have to show blizz how to make better or at least different use of it.
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Also to all the people hating on Haven's Lagoon:
It is clearly one of the top maps of the group. Map making is not about creating this beautiful landscape to fight on. Top players do not pay attention to that shit. The best map is one that is most enjoyable to play. Which is something he created by coming up with a whole new way using a map to change the way SC2 is played.
On November 10 2011 01:29 Johanaz wrote:
Now that I´ve flipped a few tables I can understand the reasoning behind the selection.
Like trying to write a hit song; you can work really hard and do everything right, and still see people go for another tune.
Dedication, talent will only take you so far. A bit of luck and fun-factor is something you need but can´t control.
I see you are so full of yourself you still don't understand the reasoning of the selection. Dedication and talent is all you need to succeed. But you didn't have the 'talent' to come up with a concept like Haven's Lagoon. There was no luck involved. And fun-factor is something you can control - it requires a little imagination and happens to be the most important part in map making.
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Sam, dudecrush is just joking.
I think
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Sanctuary is the only map which looks I don't like all that much.
Fields of Strife should be made into a 1v1 map because it looks sick.
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I think Team Liquid should hold a weekend seminar in conjunction with Blizzard, we can call it the Dustin Browder 'Players Improving Maps Program' or Dustin Browder, P.I.M.P. for short.
It can be all about effectively implementing Destructible Rocks, with a primer for the release of Heart of the Swarm, after which there can be another seminar for the use of Collapsible Rocks.
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To people hating on Burning Altar because of the rocks : there are just as many destructible rocks on Cloud Kingdom (although not entirely blocking). And even more on Fields of Strife.
I understand that the first impression left by those rocks where on Blistering Sands, which certainly does not score positive points... But why the indsicriminate rage ? I personnally believe that rocks can add to gameplay value when put in sensible places.
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On November 10 2011 01:54 Barrin wrote:Congratulations to the winners! :D----- As happy I am for the winners, believe me I was as nervous waiting for announcement and thoroughly disappointed for losing as anyone else. But for me that is quickly replaced with a desire to become better and learn from my mistakes. This is my entry (Alysaar Deluge): + Show Spoiler +I understand that the judges were putting heavy emphasis on layout and gameplay. Even though I feel Alysaar Deluge does far better at this than most maps, I also understand it's problems and felt that it's greatest weakness as I was finishing it up. It's gameplay problems seem hardly worth discussing, it really only comes from experience and the important thing is that I understand them. But if this was a contest of overall execution this map probably should have been a finalist ^^ It's not really that this experience has left me "enlightened"... "refreshed" would be a better word. I have not really learned anything that I did not already know - only perhaps forgotten. Both in gameplay and aesthetics I get so bogged down in all the complex intricacies that I sometimes get carried away and forget fundamentals, spending so much time trying to revise it to the point where I should have just started over or got it right to begin with. Simplicity is the answer, everything else should be second-nature; this sensation is familiar to me. Lul, look at me babbling on. I guess all I'm saying is that something good will come of the motivation I gained from this. Grats again to winners 
Would you actually mind expounding upon what the gameplay issues are? This looks like a really awesome map, and I'd like to weigh in on it, after knowing what you already know. It's not too late to refine it for the IPL Map Contest! :D
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Gah, I just wish I could actually use the map editor without screwing everything up. I have so many ideas and (crude) sketches.
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Wow people are really pissed about this. I get it's never fun to lose, but there's no need to be agressive like that since it's their rules and they are the judges. They said they would choose the best playing maps acording to their skills and opinion. If you think the maps should be voted by the community or top players then you people shouldn't have applied.
The maps look great for me and i don't have any skill to say it otherwise(playing and map making) so they look good to me, i will try them if i can.
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On November 10 2011 01:54 Barrin wrote:Congratulations to the winners! :D----- As happy I am for the winners, believe me I was as nervous waiting for announcement and thoroughly disappointed for losing as anyone else. But for me that is quickly replaced with a desire to become better and learn from my mistakes. This is my entry (Alysaar Deluge): + Show Spoiler +I understand that the judges were putting heavy emphasis on layout and gameplay. Even though I feel Alysaar Deluge does far better at this than most maps, I also understand it's problems and felt that it's greatest weakness as I was finishing it up. It's gameplay problems seem hardly worth discussing, it really only comes from experience and the important thing is that I understand them. But if this was a contest of overall execution this map probably should have been a finalist ^^ It's not really that this experience has left me "enlightened"... "refreshed" would be a better word. I have not really learned anything that I did not already know - only perhaps forgotten. Both in gameplay and aesthetics I get so bogged down in all the complex intricacies that I sometimes get carried away and forget fundamentals, spending so much time trying to revise it to the point where I should have just started over or got it right to begin with. Simplicity is the answer, everything else should be second-nature; this sensation is familiar to me. Lul, look at me babbling on. I guess all I'm saying is that something good will come of the motivation I gained from this. Grats again to winners
Well, I personnaly don't really like your map (the distances feel weird and I really hate standard rocks). But well, its only my opinion at first sight, didnt play it or anything.
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Cloud Kingdom and Haven's lagoon are my favourites here. Being a daily spectator I could see right away these will show some new ways to play, and in my opinion is exactly what is needed to keep the interest up.
And what's up with people going apeshit over the aesthetics? That can easily be fixed later if it is to be used in something like the GSL.
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On November 10 2011 01:53 Snijjer wrote:
I see you are so full of yourself you still don't understand the reasoning of the selection. Dedication and talent is all you need to succeed. But you didn't have the 'talent' to come up with a concept like Haven's Lagoon. There was no luck involved. And fun-factor is something you can control - it requires a little imagination and happens to be the most important part in map making.
Before you get into a personal attack you should make sure you understood correctly what was being said.
Clearly you didn´t!
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On November 10 2011 01:53 Snijjer wrote:Also to all the people hating on Haven's Lagoon: It is clearly one of the top maps of the group. Map making is not about creating this beautiful landscape to fight on. Top players do not pay attention to that shit. The best map is one that is most enjoyable to play. Which is something he created by coming up with a whole new way using a map to change the way SC2 is played. Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 01:29 Johanaz wrote:
Now that I´ve flipped a few tables I can understand the reasoning behind the selection.
Like trying to write a hit song; you can work really hard and do everything right, and still see people go for another tune.
Dedication, talent will only take you so far. A bit of luck and fun-factor is something you need but can´t control. I see you are so full of yourself you still don't understand the reasoning of the selection. Dedication and talent is all you need to succeed. But you didn't have the 'talent' to come up with a concept like Haven's Lagoon. There was no luck involved. And fun-factor is something you can control - it requires a little imagination and happens to be the most important part in map making.
At this point I would like to interject that some players on the lower end of the skill scale care a lot about aesthetics. I have a friend in gold league who made me play ten games in a row on Bel'Shir Beach after I showed him the map being played on GSL, and he just laughs at me whenever I say that a map is imbalanced because so and so.
I do not intend to criticize or disrespect Timetwister at all ; quite the contrary, I think highly of his map. But, Blizzard has to care for an entire spectrum of players and their varying priorities, and I certainly hope that Timetwister accepts one of the proposals he has received for improving the technical aspects of his map (even if it's just coaching if he wants to retain credit as sole author, which I would understand).
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YEAAAA ESV tearing it up!
Gratz to everyone, and I am so glad a non-teamed mapper got in the finals, it's good for all the aspiring mappers!
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I love the maps. Pretty awesome.
Im lookling forward to play Haven. Sounds very interesting. + props for all the intelligent mapfeatures ppl send in :>
grats to everyone
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On November 10 2011 02:08 Johanaz wrote:
Before you get into a personal attack you should make sure you understood correctly what was being said.
Clearly you didn´t!
That post wasn't aimed directly at you though I did quote you, it was more to everyone who was flabbergasted that a noob map like Haven got picked. But...
I thought this statement was pretty clear allusion to Haven's Lagoon.
"Dedication, talent will only take you so far. A bit of luck and fun-factor is something you need but can´t control."
Which is totally dismissing the map creators talent for making fun maps as something no one can control or luck. Am I missing something?
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
Alright, would like to share 2 of my submissions with the correspondig feedback so everyone see how and what they judged.
One Must Fall
pic: http://i.imgur.com/tOvHZ.jpg (large)
Feedback:
One Must Fall had the problem of isolating too many bases in easily defendable positions - except for the low mineral base in the center (which would have had to be changed anyway ). Essentially you are able to zone out lots of these bases with minimal units. Things like PFs, mass cannons/sentry etc become a lot stronger in these situations. Further, while the multiple paths was a good idea, personally I think they could be emphasized more - for me there isn't too much reason to kill the rocks since (in most cases) I can get around without doing so just fine.
Map Thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=192107
Lunar Station
pic: http://i.imgur.com/aAYXN.jpg (large)
Feedback: Lunar Station is a very good map. The first issue was the gold, where it's located makes it similar (in a way) to XNC i.e. planting a PF there is very very good for a Terran - more so than on XNC. The expansion layout, otherwise, was very well done. The split down the middle in addition to forcing you to expand outwards we felt would lead too much towards a counter attacking/base racey type game. That was basically the reason we didn't take it. But like I said, it did very well.
So i would assume Layout >>> rest. That's why this Lagoon map everyone is complaing about is in
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/YHjNM.jpg)
