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On November 10 2011 02:37 Barrin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 02:30 Torte de Lini wrote:
Don't worry Barrin, I'll definitely play your map! Looks fun! woot woot ^^
I just wanted to put this here. Not really directed at anyone, and I know there are many great mapmakers who had no maps chosen as finalist. from: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=261867¤tpage=17#332Show nested quote +... there is this thing I like to call "mapmaking progression philosophy". I've been meaning to make a thread for it for a loong time, but it really is little more than this: I believe that more people should be focusing more on (strategy A) improving on your current mapmaking skills and less on (strategy B) taking what you do know and trying to shove it all into a single map in hopes you will win a competition or a large tournament will use your map. Interestingly enough this same concept can be (and is) applied to "player progression philosophy" as well. It is a well known theory that given a long enough timeframe, the player who chooses to focus on early aggression/cheesing almost every game (strategy b) is going to eventually be an overall worse player than the person who focuses on improving their late-game mechanics and surviving the early game (strategy A). + Show Spoiler +(disclaimer: at least in mapmaking, Strategy A and B are not mutually exclusive (indeed it makes sense to do B while doing A); it is the degrees of focus on either one that I am addressing.)
If you don't consider yourself very experienced in mapmaking (2+ years; yes, into the BW days), and if you're not learning a lot from almost every map you make, then you're probably doing it wrong (probably not receiving/comprehending enough feedback - put yourself out there - do not be afraid to be wrong, be afraid of being wrong and never realizing it).
you know barrin; between burning altar and twilight peak, they also satisfy my requirement of changing the army movement and general layout quite a bit. i dont know if the TL squad were aware of that but its good to see nevertheless. 
tell me about my maps plexaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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There are some cool maps here I'm excited to see which ones Blizz adopts into the ladder.
At first I was a little turned off from Haven's Lagoon because of the aesthetics, but thinking more and more about how it would play out leads me to believe it would be really fun to play on.
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Wow, didn't realize people took these kind of things so seriously. What happened to friendly competition? :p
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On November 10 2011 02:22 chuky500 wrote:
This contest feels like another iteration of the Motm contest : nothing new under the sun. Ever wondered why people are bored with the ladder maps ? Because they kind of all play the same. Then why pick maps in the same vein ? Blizzard asked Teamliquid to find new concepts and innovative gameplay, maps with insight. Instead TL just picked maps that look standard, which is what Blizzard could already do.
Making people vote for bland maps is useless, I don't think I'll take part in the vote. Or I'll just vote for Superouman because he's french.
What ? The rocks on Burning Altar showcase an approach to destructibles that is unexistant on ladder. The cliff/ramp layout on Cloud Kingdom is equally new, no map on ladder offers that many tactically different places to engage a fight. Haven's Lagon is, well, totally different from anything else. Sanctuarium is a 3p map, which Blizzard never makes (well they did Elysium...). Isn't that enough innovation ?
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havens lagoon looks the most interesting to me by far
daggoth crater has a totally useless mid i dont like that
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On November 10 2011 02:45 Barrin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 02:42 Thauleris wrote:
Wow, didn't realize people took these kind of things so seriously. What happened to friendly competition? :p Oh yes. It's not nearly as serious as progaming itself, but we are disproportionately starved for recognition. ^^
A well-informed person whispered me that a number of well-established mapmaking teams have begun a six-digit bidding war to enlist TimeTwister before the final results are published. For real.
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Haven's Lagoon looks super fun to play on. I love maps with a ton of elevations, Match point was always one of my favorites for that reason, it played out really fun. =)
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It would have been better if judges are people that everybody knows who they are. That there is a balance of judges: 2 accomplished Mapmakers, 2 Pros, 2 Commentaters. Then everyone of them talks a bit about every map. So the Mapmakers say something about the Layout + Aesthetics, Pros about how it actually plays out and Commentaters if it is fun to play and watch. Now it just looks like you took some guys you know to choose your favorite maps.
Nevertheless i do not think the chosen maps are bad. Every map is quite standard with the exception of Haven's Lagoon.
My personal favourite to make it into the Ladderpool though is Burning Altar.
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United States10796 Posts
On November 10 2011 02:45 Barrin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 02:42 Thauleris wrote:
Wow, didn't realize people took these kind of things so seriously. What happened to friendly competition? :p Oh yes. It's not nearly as serious as progaming itself, but we are disproportionately starved for recognition. ^^
This. This contest is awesome and while amazing it's the very first tournament mappers have ever had (that matters, sorry MoTM) and losing this must be how everyone that did not win the first MLG last year felt.
I understand why mappers are upset, but let's remember there's lots of great things here. All 3 major teams (ESV, TPW, LoS) all have representation, a random non teamed mapper got in, and all in all this does nothing but help the map making community as a whole !
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On November 10 2011 02:42 Thauleris wrote:
Wow, didn't realize people took these kind of things so seriously. What happened to friendly competition? :p
You have to realize that the good mapmakers (mainly those who are in TPW, ESV or LoS, but also some others like Barrin) spend between 15 and 30 hours for each map (I just made that up, might be more) so we are REALLY disappointed each time our maps aren't picked in any competition. Cos not being picked basically means the map will never ever be played and all the effort is wasted , except of course that it makes you a better mapmaker in the end.
I'm -really- happy I made top7 seeing that I never was top5 in any MotM and only recently joined a team and became more involved in the mapmaking community!
Congrats to all the other mapmakers who made top7 and a big thank you for everyone else who makes good maps: You are such an inspiration, you make this community awesome and even if your maps weren't picked in this event, you still remain top top mapmakers and in future events I'm sure we will see your maps among the winners again (especially to funcmode, but also all the other TPW/ESV/LoS guys and Barrin).
Btw I contacted Timetwister22 about the aesthetics on Haven's Lagoon and one or more of the experienced mapmakers here will take care of redoing them to achieve an all around top quality map that can be used in tournaments/ladder.
Cos even tho layout is the most important part, there should be a certain standard for aesthetics. And Blizzard's map are the minimum!
Now all I can say is, I hope I get top5 : )
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On November 10 2011 02:45 Barrin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 02:42 Thauleris wrote:
Wow, didn't realize people took these kind of things so seriously. What happened to friendly competition? :p Oh yes. It's not nearly as serious as progaming itself, but we are disproportionately starved for recognition. ^^
It seems Plexa may as well have insulted your children.
"I'm sorry but little Johnny just doesn't have the charm we were looking for"
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On November 10 2011 02:53 Apoo wrote:
It would have been better if judges are people that everybody knows about who they are. That there is a balance of judges: 2 accomplished Mapmakers, 2 Pros, 2 Commentaters. Then everyone of them talks a bit about every map. So the Mapmakers say something about the Layout + Aesthetics, Pros about how it actually plays out and Commentaters if it is fun to play and watch. Now it just looks like you took some guys you know to choose your favorite maps.
Nevertheless i do not think the chosen maps are bad. Every map is quite standard with the exception of Haven's Lagoon.
My personal favourite to make it into the Ladderpool though is Burning Altar. Honestly I don't think that any recognized mapmaker would have accepted to be a judge for that contest, which would have automatically prevented him from participating. That would be like Huk saying he will organize the next MLG and watch from the front row who takes first place.
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United States10796 Posts
On November 10 2011 02:50 Apom wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 02:45 Barrin wrote:On November 10 2011 02:42 Thauleris wrote:
Wow, didn't realize people took these kind of things so seriously. What happened to friendly competition? :p Oh yes. It's not nearly as serious as progaming itself, but we are disproportionately starved for recognition. ^^ A well-informed person whispered me that a number of well-established mapmaking teams have begun a six-digit bidding war to enlist TimeTwister before the final results are published. For real.
I upped the ante. I offered him 40 trillion E-Sports dollars a month*!
Cash Value = 1/14,000 of 1¢
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I'm no map expert, but Havens Lagoon looks amazing! Would love to see more maps that utilize multiple terrain heights.
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:02 Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 02:50 Apom wrote:On November 10 2011 02:45 Barrin wrote:On November 10 2011 02:42 Thauleris wrote:
Wow, didn't realize people took these kind of things so seriously. What happened to friendly competition? :p Oh yes. It's not nearly as serious as progaming itself, but we are disproportionately starved for recognition. ^^ A well-informed person whispered me that a number of well-established mapmaking teams have begun a six-digit bidding war to enlist TimeTwister before the final results are published. For real. I upped the ante. I offered him 40 trillion E-Sports dollars a month*! Cash Value = 1/14,000 of 1¢
I'm calling you out Diamond!
That's still about $700k a month 
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On November 10 2011 03:07 Hassybaby wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 03:02 Diamond wrote:On November 10 2011 02:50 Apom wrote:On November 10 2011 02:45 Barrin wrote:On November 10 2011 02:42 Thauleris wrote:
Wow, didn't realize people took these kind of things so seriously. What happened to friendly competition? :p Oh yes. It's not nearly as serious as progaming itself, but we are disproportionately starved for recognition. ^^ A well-informed person whispered me that a number of well-established mapmaking teams have begun a six-digit bidding war to enlist TimeTwister before the final results are published. For real. I upped the ante. I offered him 40 trillion E-Sports dollars a month*! Cash Value = 1/14,000 of 1¢ I'm calling you out Diamond! That's still about $700k a month
Didn't you see the special South Park did on it?
That's still only 700k Theoretical e-Dollars
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United States10796 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:08 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 03:07 Hassybaby wrote:On November 10 2011 03:02 Diamond wrote:On November 10 2011 02:50 Apom wrote:On November 10 2011 02:45 Barrin wrote:On November 10 2011 02:42 Thauleris wrote:
Wow, didn't realize people took these kind of things so seriously. What happened to friendly competition? :p Oh yes. It's not nearly as serious as progaming itself, but we are disproportionately starved for recognition. ^^ A well-informed person whispered me that a number of well-established mapmaking teams have begun a six-digit bidding war to enlist TimeTwister before the final results are published. For real. I upped the ante. I offered him 40 trillion E-Sports dollars a month*! Cash Value = 1/14,000 of 1¢ I'm calling you out Diamond! That's still about $700k a month Didn't you see the special South Park did on it? That's still only 700k Theoretical e-Dollars
Nope, no clue about that.
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On November 10 2011 00:44 Mereel wrote:i dont know...im pretty speechless now. ''the very best that the community could offer.'' that is like the worst statement ever and doesnt show what the mapmaking community is capable off doing. + Show Spoiler + i really thought u would use some pro players to test the maps. tl has his own team, is it really that hard to ask them for something important like that.
burning altar, ohana, cloud kingdom and twilight peaks are totally ok. i still would have choose others though
what i dont get is first of daggoth crater had a beautiful korhal texture before, why would u ever want to change that in something shitty like that, and present it like that. thats horrible for the community, same goes for sanctuary.
there are so much jokes about the belshir tileset in the community for a good reason. it looks boring as fuck! especially on sanctuary...no effort put into it at all. i dont want to look at it, i dont want to play on it, i dont want to see it on a stream because im gonna fall at sleep when i do.
ok last map havens lagoon, actually i dont know what to say really. first of, there is a reason that there are mapmaking teams. to get help from other talented mapmakers to make our maps better, learn from each other, get better testing.
so i cant understand why a random person that i never heard about ever get into the top7. and im in the mapmaking com since the beta so i know what im talking about.
the layout is propably done in half an hour and and never put much thought into it. the aesthetics are the worst i ever seen, border design non existent and all the small things at the layout that makes it look bad and 'feel' bad.
i can say with all my experience this map should never be here, you have to make maps for a long while to get really good at it, and this guy is not. no excuses here.
give it to some experiened mapmaker to reshape and retexture and redoodad it before u showcase it in a tournament. i dont want to be a part of that community if that map is one of our best to offer. that just a huge fucking joke or a bad dream. i dont understand it.
propably more later FUCK OFF
Look I know some of the people that tested the map. You've just insulted and put them down without even knowing them! What the hell! Sorry if TLOpen contestants are good enough for you. Next time I'm sure TL will get MC, MVP and Nestea to have FFAs on all the maps just to test them! -_-;;
Personally I think these maps are AWESOME and want to personally thank every single contestant, regardless of who was chosen, for producing such amazing maps and showing how kick ass our map making community is!
You guys rock!
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EPT
