• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 23:44
CET 05:44
KST 13:44
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !8Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15
StarCraft 2
General
When will we find out if there are more tournament ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump
Tourneys
Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1: Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress
Brood War
General
How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle screp: Command line app to parse SC rep files [BSL21] RO8 Bracket & Prediction Contest
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] WB SEMIFINALS - Saturday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO8 - Day 2 - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Mechabellum Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
The (Hidden) Drug Problem in…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2011 users

[D] map size, compared to BW - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
neobowman
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3324 Posts
September 14 2010 00:17 GMT
#21
A big problem I had when making my Python remake was getting both the islands and the mains to be untankable. I changed the map size to 144x144 but it was still pretty difficult since i didn't spread the map all the way to the edges. Python might be a bad example though since the middle is so big.

My Grand Line remake is also 144x144 but I used almost the full map size. The whole thing felt REALLY big. It shouldn't be a problem in that map but any bigger and I think it tends to get uncomfortable.
CounteR
Profile Joined August 2010
New Zealand103 Posts
September 14 2010 01:41 GMT
#22
Yeah this is a great thread and I agree with the map sizes .. Maps just feel to small in SC2..
GG GL HF
butter
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States785 Posts
September 14 2010 08:29 GMT
#23
There are so many distance references available, and of course they are all out of proportion relative to BW. Especially if you talk about travel times, you need to pick a time scale as well. For example, consider the distance that a probe moves across the map in the time that it takes a barracks to build, or the distance an overlord moves in the time it takes a zealot to build, etc. If (Wiki)Blood Bath is too short, is (Wiki)Desert Oasis too long? How would we know?

Another difficulty in porting BW maps is the mismatch between the pseudo-isometric 27° angled ramps (and bridges!) in BW and the 0/90/45° ramps in SC2. So for example, if you want to preserve the width of a ramp, you can end up unintentionally changing the area behind it, or vice versa. I suspect Blizzard did it this way because someone thought it would be cute to interpret the purely aesthetic isometric tiles as 3D (when really units move in screen space), but imagine if maps looked like this...

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
TL should have a minigame where you have to destroy some rocks before you can make a new post – DentalFloss
k10forgotten
Profile Joined September 2010
Brazil260 Posts
September 19 2010 06:41 GMT
#24
There's something that I noticed in the making of the Paranoid Android port: most of the buildings (Terran buildings, anyway) are 1 unit "taller" in SC2. For example, bunker is 3x2 (X axis,Y axis) in BW, but it is 3x3 in SC2. But that's not just one building, there are a lot of buildings that changed (but some remained with the same size, as pylon and missile turret). Most notable: the main buildings (CC, Nexus and Hatchery) - from 4x3 to 5x5. (That fucked up my first attempt, as I used CC to measure the area of construction...)

My point: making a port of a BW map to SC2 is a pain. You want the same area of construction, and the same safety from tanks... But those things changed, and in order to make it decently fair to the original area, the map should be taller. A square map, as Paranoid Android, is better ported with a tall-retangle map in with the same width but the height must be 1.5x the original's.

And when you think that it is over creating the same area of construction, then come the tanks... After the tanks, you want to see if the distances are equal (I used the SC2 Map Analyzer), if the map is near something balanced... Oh dear. D: That's when the real pain begins, because you don't want to change many things, to deform the map, but hardly it will not need serious changes. D:
I fear no enemy, for the Khala is my strength! I fear not death, for our strength is eternal.
Pistolfied
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada79 Posts
September 19 2010 09:06 GMT
#25
I agree that scaling in sc2 is just... off. I had a really hard time making my maps feel right and they still don't feel how I want them to. Another problem I've noticed is that any large map that is made is heavily protoss favoured. Why? Because protoss has warpgates which allows them to keep constant pressure on anywhere in the map whereas both zerg and terran have to reinforce from their bases. Protoss gains a gigantic mobility boost the large a map gets if they put up pylons everywhere they go...
Stop saying anywayS, it's anyway, not anyway>>S<<. Anyways is not a word!!!
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
September 19 2010 11:26 GMT
#26
On September 19 2010 18:06 Pistolfied wrote:
I agree that scaling in sc2 is just... off. I had a really hard time making my maps feel right and they still don't feel how I want them to. Another problem I've noticed is that any large map that is made is heavily protoss favoured. Why? Because protoss has warpgates which allows them to keep constant pressure on anywhere in the map whereas both zerg and terran have to reinforce from their bases. Protoss gains a gigantic mobility boost the large a map gets if they put up pylons everywhere they go...


I don't think this is true. Zerg benefit from a big map in different ways than Protoss; a larger map usually means longer rush distance, so Zerg can literally wait until the last second to raise an army in response to an attack. Also Nydus Worm gets more awesome with a bigger map, making it easier to expand all over and be able to defend it well.

We won't really know how big is too big until Blizzard makes a really huge map, or the community embraces more custom maps.
homeless_guy
Profile Joined June 2005
United States321 Posts
September 19 2010 14:19 GMT
#27
I definitely agree many of the current ladder maps are too small. The point about natural expansions pushing bases toward the middle of the map is also a good one. Stepps for example is so small. As T, by the time you take your natural it is a very quick walk to just siege up the entire middle of the map. I know most people hate Kulas (because it is tank on cliff nightmare?) but ont of the reasons I enjoy the map is because it is so large and there are different routes etc. Conversely, I played a few 3v3 matches where the map was confusingly large.

Any suggestions for great maps that are currently not in the ladder pool?

Also, Blizz is planning on adding new maps when they patch later this week?
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5h 16m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiLiPiLi 47
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 822
Leta 330
ZergMaN 113
Hm[arnc] 21
Mong 20
Icarus 5
Dota 2
monkeys_forever392
LuMiX1
League of Legends
JimRising 557
Counter-Strike
summit1g8456
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox190
Other Games
Coldzera 993
WinterStarcraft343
ViBE149
C9.Mang0141
Trikslyr63
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1178
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• practicex 28
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki16
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22331
Other Games
• Scarra1592
• Shiphtur124
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
5h 16m
WardiTV 2025
6h 16m
Spirit vs Cure
Reynor vs MaxPax
SHIN vs TBD
Solar vs herO
Classic vs TBD
SC Evo League
7h 46m
Ladder Legends
14h 16m
BSL 21
15h 16m
Sziky vs Dewalt
eOnzErG vs Cross
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 5h
Ladder Legends
1d 12h
BSL 21
1d 15h
StRyKeR vs TBD
Bonyth vs TBD
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
ByuN vs Solar
Clem vs Classic
Cure vs herO
Reynor vs MaxPax
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Offline Finals
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 1
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.