• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:03
CEST 07:03
KST 14:03
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments0[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence10Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups4WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments1SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia8Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues29LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments3
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy SpeCial on The Tasteless Podcast Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around
Brood War
General
[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence BW General Discussion ASL20 General Discussion Diplomacy, Cosmonarchy Edition BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group D [ASL20] Ro16 Group C [Megathread] Daily Proleagues SC4ALL $1,500 Open Bracket LAN
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Borderlands 3
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Big Programming Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Personality of a Spender…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1118 users

[D] map size, compared to BW - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
neobowman
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3324 Posts
September 14 2010 00:17 GMT
#21
A big problem I had when making my Python remake was getting both the islands and the mains to be untankable. I changed the map size to 144x144 but it was still pretty difficult since i didn't spread the map all the way to the edges. Python might be a bad example though since the middle is so big.

My Grand Line remake is also 144x144 but I used almost the full map size. The whole thing felt REALLY big. It shouldn't be a problem in that map but any bigger and I think it tends to get uncomfortable.
CounteR
Profile Joined August 2010
New Zealand103 Posts
September 14 2010 01:41 GMT
#22
Yeah this is a great thread and I agree with the map sizes .. Maps just feel to small in SC2..
GG GL HF
butter
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States785 Posts
September 14 2010 08:29 GMT
#23
There are so many distance references available, and of course they are all out of proportion relative to BW. Especially if you talk about travel times, you need to pick a time scale as well. For example, consider the distance that a probe moves across the map in the time that it takes a barracks to build, or the distance an overlord moves in the time it takes a zealot to build, etc. If (Wiki)Blood Bath is too short, is (Wiki)Desert Oasis too long? How would we know?

Another difficulty in porting BW maps is the mismatch between the pseudo-isometric 27° angled ramps (and bridges!) in BW and the 0/90/45° ramps in SC2. So for example, if you want to preserve the width of a ramp, you can end up unintentionally changing the area behind it, or vice versa. I suspect Blizzard did it this way because someone thought it would be cute to interpret the purely aesthetic isometric tiles as 3D (when really units move in screen space), but imagine if maps looked like this...

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
TL should have a minigame where you have to destroy some rocks before you can make a new post – DentalFloss
k10forgotten
Profile Joined September 2010
Brazil260 Posts
September 19 2010 06:41 GMT
#24
There's something that I noticed in the making of the Paranoid Android port: most of the buildings (Terran buildings, anyway) are 1 unit "taller" in SC2. For example, bunker is 3x2 (X axis,Y axis) in BW, but it is 3x3 in SC2. But that's not just one building, there are a lot of buildings that changed (but some remained with the same size, as pylon and missile turret). Most notable: the main buildings (CC, Nexus and Hatchery) - from 4x3 to 5x5. (That fucked up my first attempt, as I used CC to measure the area of construction...)

My point: making a port of a BW map to SC2 is a pain. You want the same area of construction, and the same safety from tanks... But those things changed, and in order to make it decently fair to the original area, the map should be taller. A square map, as Paranoid Android, is better ported with a tall-retangle map in with the same width but the height must be 1.5x the original's.

And when you think that it is over creating the same area of construction, then come the tanks... After the tanks, you want to see if the distances are equal (I used the SC2 Map Analyzer), if the map is near something balanced... Oh dear. D: That's when the real pain begins, because you don't want to change many things, to deform the map, but hardly it will not need serious changes. D:
I fear no enemy, for the Khala is my strength! I fear not death, for our strength is eternal.
Pistolfied
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada79 Posts
September 19 2010 09:06 GMT
#25
I agree that scaling in sc2 is just... off. I had a really hard time making my maps feel right and they still don't feel how I want them to. Another problem I've noticed is that any large map that is made is heavily protoss favoured. Why? Because protoss has warpgates which allows them to keep constant pressure on anywhere in the map whereas both zerg and terran have to reinforce from their bases. Protoss gains a gigantic mobility boost the large a map gets if they put up pylons everywhere they go...
Stop saying anywayS, it's anyway, not anyway>>S<<. Anyways is not a word!!!
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
September 19 2010 11:26 GMT
#26
On September 19 2010 18:06 Pistolfied wrote:
I agree that scaling in sc2 is just... off. I had a really hard time making my maps feel right and they still don't feel how I want them to. Another problem I've noticed is that any large map that is made is heavily protoss favoured. Why? Because protoss has warpgates which allows them to keep constant pressure on anywhere in the map whereas both zerg and terran have to reinforce from their bases. Protoss gains a gigantic mobility boost the large a map gets if they put up pylons everywhere they go...


I don't think this is true. Zerg benefit from a big map in different ways than Protoss; a larger map usually means longer rush distance, so Zerg can literally wait until the last second to raise an army in response to an attack. Also Nydus Worm gets more awesome with a bigger map, making it easier to expand all over and be able to defend it well.

We won't really know how big is too big until Blizzard makes a really huge map, or the community embraces more custom maps.
homeless_guy
Profile Joined June 2005
United States321 Posts
September 19 2010 14:19 GMT
#27
I definitely agree many of the current ladder maps are too small. The point about natural expansions pushing bases toward the middle of the map is also a good one. Stepps for example is so small. As T, by the time you take your natural it is a very quick walk to just siege up the entire middle of the map. I know most people hate Kulas (because it is tank on cliff nightmare?) but ont of the reasons I enjoy the map is because it is so large and there are different routes etc. Conversely, I played a few 3v3 matches where the map was confusingly large.

Any suggestions for great maps that are currently not in the ladder pool?

Also, Blizz is planning on adding new maps when they patch later this week?
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Monday
00:00
#49
Liquipedia
OSC
23:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #16
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft556
StarCraft: Brood War
Leta 533
Noble 51
ajuk12(nOOB) 43
Icarus 10
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm138
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K448
semphis_45
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King40
Other Games
summit1g4980
C9.Mang0320
XaKoH 150
ViBE142
SortOf52
Trikslyr34
trigger0
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick684
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• OhrlRock 91
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1125
• Rush1120
• Stunt434
Other Games
• Scarra1215
Upcoming Events
LiuLi Cup
5h 57m
OSC
13h 57m
RSL Revival
1d 4h
Maru vs Reynor
Cure vs TriGGeR
The PondCast
1d 7h
RSL Revival
2 days
Zoun vs Classic
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
4 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-10
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL World Championship of Poland 2025
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.