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[A] Starcraft 2 Brood War - Page 231

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
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MavercK
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia2181 Posts
February 06 2014 11:17 GMT
#4601
did an update to US/CN/KR/SEA to fix those.
EU is down or something?

only one i didn't change was marine attack speed
as i understand it in BW marines had an attack cooldown of 15 frames, 7.5 with stim.
15 / 14.93 * 0.8783 = 0.88
7.5 / 14.93 * 0.8783 = 0.44

check if you can if the numbers are close to that. if not it's probably a dependency thing and i need to dig deeper.
Brood War Remake - SC2BW - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=145316
jebi86
Profile Joined January 2011
Korea (South)133 Posts
February 06 2014 17:08 GMT
#4602

(recorded in US Server)

some brood war video. marine's attack speed is definitely faster than SC2BW marine.
marine's attack cool is 0.86 according to the tooltip, but actual speed is... just like the video.
LaLuSh
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden2358 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-06 19:48:11
February 06 2014 19:47 GMT
#4603
On February 07 2014 02:08 jebi86 wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2fX9qHa3Zs
(recorded in US Server)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X49b2bqb-TM
some brood war video. marine's attack speed is definitely faster than SC2BW marine.
marine's attack cool is 0.86 according to the tooltip, but actual speed is... just like the video.


Man jebi86, you give awesome feedback.

I spied some on your comment history. Lots of feedback on this mod
LaLuSh
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden2358 Posts
February 06 2014 19:51 GMT
#4604
I had some random freeze lag playing SC2BW. Seems like jebi also has it in his 3v3 teamplay videos.

Something is eating more performance than it should?
decemberscalm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1353 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-06 21:06:45
February 06 2014 21:03 GMT
#4605
On February 06 2014 20:17 MavercK wrote:
did an update to US/CN/KR/SEA to fix those.
EU is down or something?

only one i didn't change was marine attack speed
as i understand it in BW marines had an attack cooldown of 15 frames, 7.5 with stim.
15 / 14.93 * 0.8783 = 0.88
7.5 / 14.93 * 0.8783 = 0.44

check if you can if the numbers are close to that. if not it's probably a dependency thing and i need to dig deeper.

I use these calculations for BW numbers to SC2.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnWGs9ZSfPbxdFBGOXRXSmQ3YVotdHMxMDRDLUU3NEE&usp=drive_web#gid=0
CD being cooldown, the different tabs for switching races are at the bottom.

From the side by side tests I did, marines killing a tiny bit faster than sc2 seems more to do with different random delays than actual attack speed discrepancies.

Stim in BW is 20 seconds long on normal. Setting it to 17.5 matched it spot on.

The actual stim strength I had to set to 1.6 multiplier to get it close to matching BW. BW still barely kills a tank faster on average than a sc2 marine. Again, gonna chalk this up to the built in random delay being different between the two games.

With attack speed .88 and stim 17.5 duriation multiplier 1.6 I have a really close marine to BW using the actual converted BW numbers for attack speed.

Also, I did a vod to highlight some differences on how miss chance and siege fire works. Most importantly, lurker doesn't miss shooting up highground, and siege tanks could still hurt things under the dark swarm depending on where they are shooting.
+ Show Spoiler +
MavercK
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia2181 Posts
February 06 2014 21:10 GMT
#4606
On February 07 2014 04:51 LaLuSh wrote:
I had some random freeze lag playing SC2BW. Seems like jebi also has it in his 3v3 teamplay videos.

Something is eating more performance than it should?


is it with large numbers of units or something?
will do some testing tonight.
Brood War Remake - SC2BW - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=145316
MavercK
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia2181 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-06 22:38:56
February 06 2014 21:12 GMT
#4607
On February 07 2014 06:03 decemberscalm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 06 2014 20:17 MavercK wrote:
did an update to US/CN/KR/SEA to fix those.
EU is down or something?

only one i didn't change was marine attack speed
as i understand it in BW marines had an attack cooldown of 15 frames, 7.5 with stim.
15 / 14.93 * 0.8783 = 0.88
7.5 / 14.93 * 0.8783 = 0.44

check if you can if the numbers are close to that. if not it's probably a dependency thing and i need to dig deeper.

I use these calculations for BW numbers to SC2.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnWGs9ZSfPbxdFBGOXRXSmQ3YVotdHMxMDRDLUU3NEE&usp=drive_web#gid=0
CD being cooldown, the different tabs for switching races are at the bottom.

From the side by side tests I did, marines killing a tiny bit faster than sc2 seems more to do with different random delays than actual attack speed discrepancies.

Stim in BW is 20 seconds long on normal. Setting it to 17.5 matched it spot on.

The actual stim strength I had to set to 1.6 multiplier to get it close to matching BW. BW still barely kills a tank faster on average than a sc2 marine. Again, gonna chalk this up to the built in random delay being different between the two games.

With attack speed .88 and stim 17.5 duriation multiplier 1.6 I have a really close marine to BW using the actual converted BW numbers for attack speed.

Also, I did a vod to highlight some differences on how miss chance and siege fire works. Most importantly, lurker doesn't miss shooting up highground, and siege tanks could still hurt things under the dark swarm depending on where they are shooting.
+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvnSDmeL-sQ&list=UUhnRvWJRXAYYO5XqoA-iHww&feature=c4-overview


Yea. All a miss is in BW is it offsets the impact point to the side. So a siege tanks splash will still hit things around that point. But a marine shot wont do anything as it needs a target to apply damage to.
I've recreated all of that in SC2BW.
Will look more into marine attack speed tho, thanks,
Brood War Remake - SC2BW - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=145316
MavercK
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia2181 Posts
February 07 2014 08:24 GMT
#4608
Stuttering is probably because of how often i check pathing, it's probably way too high and scales poorly with many players.
I also have a pretty hefty machine so i might not be affected by the strain it puts on the players computer.

So i've lessened how often pathing is checked from / 16 times a second to twice a second.

I'm also updating EU this time.
Brood War Remake - SC2BW - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=145316
jebi86
Profile Joined January 2011
Korea (South)133 Posts
February 07 2014 08:39 GMT
#4609
On February 07 2014 04:47 LaLuSh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 07 2014 02:08 jebi86 wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2fX9qHa3Zs
(recorded in US Server)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X49b2bqb-TM
some brood war video. marine's attack speed is definitely faster than SC2BW marine.
marine's attack cool is 0.86 according to the tooltip, but actual speed is... just like the video.


Man jebi86, you give awesome feedback.

I spied some on your comment history. Lots of feedback on this mod


lol thx i'm just a korean starcraft addict XD
jebi86
Profile Joined January 2011
Korea (South)133 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-08 14:42:13
February 07 2014 16:56 GMT
#4610
hello again
i found some detailed feedback that is not very critical in gameplay. please fix it when you want to handle.
bold part is feedback affecting gameplay.
+ Show Spoiler +

-terran

bunker : still has 400 HP. should be 350.

academy : icon - wireframe - actual model, each things are different. it looks not clean, so it need to arranged.

firebat : has no team color. how about using this fixed model?
http://www.sc2mapster.com/assets/ghostnovas-mods/files/66-firebat-fixes/

medic : In current version, restoration can casted to anyone that does not have bad status.
and, it needs some effect.


ghost : 1.nuclear strike hotkey is wrong(current L → should N), overlapped with lockdown's hotkey.
2.ghost is smallist unit in BW. current version is bigger than marine.
3."NUCLEAR LAUNCH DETECTED" is not announced to anyone in current version.


goliath : it has viking's portrait. need to be changed.

covert ops : needs new wireframe.

physics lab : how about using 'tech lab' model instead of fusion core? it looks similar.


-zerg

spawning pool : metabolic boost hotkey is wrong (R → M)

sunken colony : icon, wireframe need to be arranged. and i recommend bw sound effect.

hydralisk : attack effect is great, but originally hydra has "instant type" range attack like marine.
shooting time=hitting time.


lurker : sound effect is slightly wrong. add hydra launching sound with current sound.

queen :parasite need to sound effect.
ensnare is originally projectile-type spell like EMP.
ensnare should not harm caster herself.
ensnare's effect range is way too big in current version.
screenshot of bw for reference

+ Show Spoiler +

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/374x717q90/534/ps5h.jpg
just slightly bigger than the stasis field.
psi storm<stasis<ensnare


defiler : similar problem as ensnare.
plague's effect range is way too big like ensnare.
plague should not harm caster itself.
(in bw, plague's range is same as ensnare. so ensnare and plague are needed to be resized as same range.)


guardian, devourer : icon, wireframe, portrait need to be arranged. and i recommend bw sound effect.

-protoss

nexus : should 750/750 hp instead of 1000/1000.

shield battery : same problem as academy. icon - wireframe - actual model, each things are different.
recharge should be available with RMB click on units.
recharge should be available on out-of-ranged units. in bw, click recharge button on out-of-ranged units makes units autometically move to battery itself. even that click makes nearby shield-damaged units autometically move to battery.


observatory : same problem as academy. icon - wireframe - actual model, each things are different.

arbiter tribunal : same problem as academy. icon - wireframe - actual model, each things are different.

-scout : saying phoneix's quotes in current version.

arbiter : same portrait as carrier. how about using preserver portrait or something?
stasis field need its casting effect and sound effect.

reaver : same portrait as probe. recommend this portrait.
http://www.sc2mapster.com/assets/dark-protoss/files/73-reaver-portrait/

dark archon : has same problem as firebat. he does not have team color. recommend this model.
http://www.sc2mapster.com/assets/ghostnovas-mods/files/58-archon-and-dark-archon/

mind control needs its sprite effect and sound effect.
maelstorm needs its sound effect.


-in addition : for completeness

- all of ingame tooltips are not arranged. need to be rewrited. (or deleted like original bw. there is no tooltip lol)

- each race's adjutant sounds, building respond sounds are not arranged(bw and sc2 voices are mixed). it would be better if all sounds are unified to bw sound.

-thrikodisa and ghostnova's assets. some of them are already being used, but i think it is a good idea to use a few more good models.(it is your choice )
http://www.sc2mapster.com/assets/dark-protoss/files/
http://www.sc2mapster.com/assets/ghostnovas-mods/files/



*EDIT : a few more. almost done
+ Show Spoiler +


vulture : default armor is 1 → 0
is it correct accleration speed? i feel slightly slower than original bw(especially after speed upgrade).

siege tank : HP 160 → 150

ghost : ghost is smallist unit, i mean "collision size" is smaller than marine. ghost can through almost all structure wall.

dropship : need to check acceleration speed. i feel too slow.

battlecrusier : need to check acceleration speed and moving speed. i feel a little fast.


overlord: need to check default speed and upgraded speed. definitely faster than original bw.

defiler : plague hotkey is P → G, add patrol button.

queen, guardian, devourer : need to resize the model size. queen/guardian looks bigger, devourer looks smaller than original bw.

devourer : acid spore level(1~9) is not displayed. and acid spore should not applied to player/allied forces.


nexus : current version has 1000/750 hp. weird...

robotics facility : menu needs arranged to "SHUTTLE - REAVER - OBSERVER". confusing thing for bw users.

stargate :
menu needs arranged to
"SCOUT - CARRIER - ARBITER
CORSAIR "


dark archon : malestorm range is too big. it should same size as psi storm.

arbiter : recall range is too big. it should be slightly small size as ensnare.


MavercK
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia2181 Posts
February 08 2014 03:08 GMT
#4611
doing an update now

below is what i've fixed.
+ Show Spoiler +

bunker : still has 400 HP. should be 350.
ghost : 1.nuclear strike hotkey is wrong(current L → should N), overlapped with lockdown's hotkey.
2.ghost is smallist unit in BW. current version is bigger than marine.
3."NUCLEAR LAUNCH DETECTED" is not announced to anyone in current version.
spawning pool : metabolic boost hotkey is wrong (R → M)

ensnare is originally projectile-type spell like EMP.
ensnare should not harm caster herself.
ensnare's effect range is way too big in current version.

defiler : similar problem as ensnare.
plague's effect range is way too big like ensnare.
plague should not harm caster itself.
(in bw, plague's range is same as ensnare. so ensnare and plague are needed to be resized as same range.)

nexus : should 750/750 hp instead of 1000/1000.


most other things will have to wait until i have more time.
Brood War Remake - SC2BW - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=145316
jebi86
Profile Joined January 2011
Korea (South)133 Posts
February 08 2014 05:23 GMT
#4612
thx for your effort!
Master of DalK
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
Canada1801 Posts
February 08 2014 05:31 GMT
#4613
jebi you're awesome.

you too maverck.
@MasterDalK | Maelstrom Entertainment | Streaming Every Esport Under the Sun
jebi86
Profile Joined January 2011
Korea (South)133 Posts
February 08 2014 14:44 GMT
#4614
i found a few more feedbacks . writing on upper post.
jebi86
Profile Joined January 2011
Korea (South)133 Posts
February 08 2014 16:39 GMT
#4615
this is just my suggestion.
playing sc2bw extension mod with sc2 map destroys balance, because all sc2 map's base and expansion basically has 2 vespen geyser.

my suggestion is :
when starting the game, delete 1 geyser of all base and expansion using the trigger or something
change all vespen amount to 2500 → 5000 (if it's not 2500, then just leave it. because problem can be occur in "fastest" map)

how about this?
Master of DalK
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
Canada1801 Posts
February 08 2014 18:52 GMT
#4616
When you play with the extension mod, on the left side where the speed settings and privacy settings are, scroll down and go to Fix Bases. Set that to on, because it does just that :D
@MasterDalK | Maelstrom Entertainment | Streaming Every Esport Under the Sun
jebi86
Profile Joined January 2011
Korea (South)133 Posts
February 09 2014 05:08 GMT
#4617
Oh, i didn't know that function...sorry T.T
jebi86
Profile Joined January 2011
Korea (South)133 Posts
February 09 2014 14:46 GMT
#4618
found a issue of fix bases option.

+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]

screenshot 1, 2 in (8)megaton
3 on custom map (8)the hunters

fix bases option works well generally, but that weird glitch occurs in some maps.

MavercK
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia2181 Posts
February 09 2014 21:09 GMT
#4619
yea unfortunately doesn't always work, which map is that? hunters i take it?
Brood War Remake - SC2BW - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=145316
jebi86
Profile Joined January 2011
Korea (South)133 Posts
February 10 2014 05:38 GMT
#4620
upper 2 screenshot is in (8)megaton
bottom is in custom map (8)the hunters.
this glitch occurs very unpredictably. i can't estimate which map makes the issue.
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