What did you guys think of day one? Please post all your comments here, whether they are praise, or criticism, we'd really like to hear what you have to say about our first broadcast so that we can deliver an even better broadcast for you in the future.
Commentators too loud? Enjoy the intro? Have trouble watching the streams? Let us know!
Hope you all enjoyed the first broadcast. See you all tomorrow!
Edit: A note from Kennigit Hey Guys. Thanks for all the support today i hope you enjoyed the cast. Just a word on the streams going down a couple times. We discovered a specific technical issue with the encoding software AS WE WERE LIVE lol. So i dropped the ball a few times with allowing the error to occur. Luckily it only happened out of matches so the VODs are all good to go - shouldn't happen tomorrow. Anyways, another day tomorrow so let us know what you liked and didn't
I just registered to tell how much I enjoy watching tsl (and your previous work)
The broadcast was fine most of the time, when lag did occur it´s been mostly between the games/replays. The Commentators where great. Manifesto7 mixing up names or races pretty often, but that is not too bad. Maybe a better arrangement between the commentator could improve it even more.
What i did miss, have been some explanations about the format and progress of the tournament ( e.g. why talk about groupplay if there are single elimination brackets? )
Another point that could be improved, the focus on the players and this touch of korean could be even extended.
absolutely amazing! Great job with the videos, the overlay etc.. its all sick. If there was 1 complaint it would be that 3 commentators is awkward and distracting imo. The golden 2 has been around for a reason.
But it's not like its "bad" just not as great as it could be imo Just the opinion of me! Great job guys!
I am having trouble seeing anything, I am streaming from the razer sponsored site, but I have no video. Is this normal? Please help me, I would like to watch this last match between idra and white-ra asaply!!!
On May 11 2008 08:57 Jaskwith wrote: I am having trouble seeing anything, I am streaming from the razer sponsored site, but I have no video. Is this normal? Please help me, I would like to watch this last match between idra and white-ra asaply!!!
I had the same problem, but it worked fine in winamp
On May 11 2008 08:53 {88}iNcontroL wrote: absolutely amazing! Great job with the videos, the overlay etc.. its all sick. If there was 1 complaint it would be that 3 commentators is awkward and distracting imo. The golden 2 has been around for a reason.
But it's not like its "bad" just not as great as it could be imo Just the opinion of me! Great job guys!
Don't they use three commentators in professional Korean broadcasting?
The intros were just awesome but the music of the intros was too loud compared to the commentators. And I'd personally prefer photos of the players over these paintings (although they are very good). Your graphics team is insane. And overall it was better than I expected. Good job TL staff.
Luckily I got reading week and my internet has been fixed so I was able to tune in and appreciate it.
GREAT GREAT GREAT! Just go on like THIS! Quality of "live" game is simply UNBEALIAVABLE!
Only one thing, sometime the guy who is following the game (Carnac?), should maybe pay more attention on where the action is, but he is doing a great job like the other guys.
A little fuzzy with the interruptions between each commentators. Would like the volumes and small static to even out between them.
Also I think the guy with the camera missed a few moments in the game, like how he didn't spot the muta attacks/lurker drop in the Kr game quick enough and I kind of felt missed out of the action there.
Great stuff, it will get better with time no doubt.
On May 11 2008 08:57 Jaskwith wrote: I am having trouble seeing anything, I am streaming from the razer sponsored site, but I have no video. Is this normal? Please help me, I would like to watch this last match between idra and white-ra asaply!!!
Nevermind, I have it working now in my zoom player. Thank you very much. Very nice very nice.
This is fucking awesome! Just kick back, drink some brews, smoke some smokes and watch some excellent SC! Amazing, simply amazing.
Very cool. I would like more speaking time for artosis. He really gives a lot of insight. At least in the first games he didn't speak too much. The intro is very cool, but its a very loud compare to the cast imo. I had to turn down the volume every time, in order to not wake up the whole house. :D
Seemed like instead of talking about the games all it was in the irc was nothing but people having problems watching the stream (damn noobs). Was a awesome set of games, THANK YOU TL.NET AND RAZER.
graphics are excellent, transitions are excellent, games are excellent, commentating is excellent
things i can think of: - make the embedded chat link to #teamliquid on quakenet, the main tl chat. don't really see a reason for it to go elsewhere - slight volume issues, like the intro being a wee bit louder than everything else - somehow find a way to fix lag issues and make the casting completely live for that 10% extra oomph in your head
- Voice levels of each caster not even. In the first few games mani's volume was lower than the other two, and in the latter games artosis' volume was lower than the other two.
- Some 'delays' after the game loads for casters to start talking, but this looked like it got smoother in the latter parts of the broadcast.
- Intro video volume was MUCH higher than the casters' voices and I had to turn down the volume each time the video was about to come up.
- Some glitches in the Min/Gas/Supply tool, such as in the Kr vs Paranoid game 1, 17 minutes in Paranoid's unit count is stuck at 109 while the top right shows him at around 130. The problem is fixed though after about 1 minute. Beginning of one of Draco's games, the tool didn't catch his numbers for a bit.
- about 5 or 6 times, I found the stream would cut out, and would have to reload it. Considering it was a 4 hour cast, I think that ratio was pretty good though - just pointing it out (I watched on the razer page).
Kudos
- Absolutely great intro, and I loved, LOVED the 3D probe
- There wasn't much to complain about at all from the content of the casting I think, aside from minor name mix-ups. Good stuff
I enjoyed it very much. The pictures fit better IMO over real pictures, and the cast was nice. The stream dc'd quite a few times between matches, rarely between.
i enjoyed this a lot. i think it was the most professional broadcast of anything esports related outside of korea. the graphics were professional and the info overlay covering the replay field was great. it was large and easy to read, much better than the ones koreans tried to implement.
there were some issues. i may get banned for saying this: manifesto was the worst of the three commentators. he was awkward and had trouble speaking in anything but a monotone for the majority of the cast. i think the problem with the commentating, like incontrol mentioned, wasn't that there was 3 commentators, it was that artosis didn't get enough air time. manifesto should switch slots with artosis and let him lead commentating.
On May 11 2008 09:15 nitram wrote: can u release the reps now? i missed the video for the first 3 series because i didnt know i had to fullscreen my media player to be able to watch it.
TSL broadcast was amazing!! It was very professional and extreamly entertaining. I woke up hungover not in the mood to play any games and it was perfect for my saturdays starcraft fix thx alot keep up the good work!!!
I just wanted to say, that the result of a game was known on gg.net actually hours before you streamed it: http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft/gosubet/31825 Look comments #39 and #45. You wanted to disqualify players who told the results to others... any consequences or was this just trash talk?
To the stream: It being a replay stream you did the best one could do. Really great stream, maybe one of the best sc streams ever! Pretty professional (although the stream went down a few times), great commentary (maybe Artosis could speak a little more) and great games! I really like those graphics and movies. :D
gj TSL!!
Ah, and btw: Please tune Manifesto's mic a bit louder!
I struggle following all of the Korean scene and am pretty much brand new to Starcraft so something like this is more or less a God send. The intro volume was the only thing I found to be even remotely distracting, and that's so small it's hardly even worth mentioning.
This kind of thing has really helped my interest in foreign Starcraft. Keep up the great work.
The introduction was incredible. Everything was incredible, really. I would, however, enjoy seeing a little bit more emotion from the commentators (even though they did a great job).
Admittedly, there were a few issues with the stream... but overall:
Just an amazing production. I was blown away by the quality of the games, the commentary, the intro (fucking amazing stuff... OGN and MBC should really be contracting out TL's art team) and everything else. Truly a broadcast equal to that of any Korean production.
On May 11 2008 09:20 Caladan wrote: I just wanted to say, that the result of a game was known on gg.net actually hours before you streamed it: http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft/gosubet/31825 Look comments #39 and #45. You wanted to disqualify players who told the results to others... any consequences or was this just trash talk?
As already mentioned most of it was sweet Thanks a lot for the stream and great games to watch.
Things you need to correct imo:
Volume - you need to level it up all around, especially the intro, it is to laud Obs - person that is following the games is missing a lot of actions going on, especially GOsia's games I think but not just them. Just watch the minimap or even listen to the comentators as they are talking about actions we cannot see...
The commentators could be a bit more enthusiastic, kinda like when tasteless says "sup guys, we have awesome games coming up! etc etc"
i dont like when a person says "im so excited" but his voice says "whatever -.-". i know its probly too much to ask, coz everyone's attitude/voice/behavior is different, but thats the only thing that i found a bit away from perfect.
On May 11 2008 08:53 {88}iNcontroL wrote: absolutely amazing! Great job with the videos, the overlay etc.. its all sick. If there was 1 complaint it would be that 3 commentators is awkward and distracting imo. The golden 2 has been around for a reason.
But it's not like its "bad" just not as great as it could be imo Just the opinion of me! Great job guys!
Don't they use three commentators in professional Korean broadcasting?
Hmm, i was thinking this too
I didn't think it sounded too cluttered, i thought they did a nice job taking turns talking and not getting too excited all at once over runninge achothers voices at climactic moments.
Broadcast was amazing. I've learned to expect quality from TL, but you guys seriously outdid yourselves here. The intro and transition screens were amazing, and combined with the in game graphic overlays for players, clock, and resources it really did look like an honest-to-god Starleague. Great commentary team - I was hoping to see Artosis playing in the TSL, but it's fortunate for the broadcast that he's not, as he's definitely in the top 2 of English casters worldwide.
I had very little problem with stream stability (watching in VLC) - it dropped 2 or 3 times, but always during a transition period, and I always got back in within 2 minutes. Ironically one of the times it dropped was when Mani was plugging R1CH for fixing problems before you knew about them. Considering this was the first attempt at a broadcast on this scale I honestly consider how stable it was pretty great though, especially never going down during a game.
The only minor quibble is that the audio seemed to cut out for a second or so when Kennigit switched between transition screens. It'd be cool if a workaround could be found for that, but seriously, when that's my biggest complaint with the broadcast... Amazing work guys. Thanks for everything you put into this.
Comentators sounded very professional, great intro (better than some TV shows out there). The presentation of the players was awesome with their stats and all , the images of the players themselves looked great altough a real picture would nt have hurt. The feed quality was really good, had a lil problem watching the embed video but putting the video in fullscreen seemed to fix that. Dunno why , definately something you can fix. Besides that, this looked like content I coulda been watching on my TV.
Here where I live (in canada) we have G4tech tv for computer game related shows. They even have pro halo matches sometimes. maybe you can try to aproach them , I would definately love to have SC matches on TV. Even if they fill you in at 4am lol. Just worth a try imo.
- make the embedded chat link to #teamliquid on quakenet, the main tl chat. don't really see a reason for it to go elsewhere
Yah, two channels where people were talking #tsl @ tl.net and #teamliquid @ qnet was frustrating. Qnet had more people (cause #tsl was full?) and was more active.
Just few remarks: 1. The probe-intro is made with a great sense, and it's very good that it was shown just few (2?) times, it's special... and i felt in love with it ^^ 2. I liked pretty much the rest of the show, pictures, drawings instead of photos, all of these resemble me korean professional tournaments 3. Three commentators where great, each of them presenting other attitudes and observations, the only thing is that there sometimes where kind of strange delays between them speaking, i guess it's technical reason, but still: they were great, i don't miss tastless alone 4. As someone said it before, the guy 'with camera' missed few important moments, fortunately comentators used to say more that we could see 5. Finally, i believe we all lack seeing 'gg'... but given the whole splendor who cares
On May 11 2008 09:18 thedeadhaji wrote: - Some glitches in the Min/Gas/Supply tool, such as in the Kr vs Paranoid game 1, 17 minutes in Paranoid's unit count is stuck at 109 while the top right shows him at around 130. The problem is fixed though after about 1 minute. Beginning of one of Draco's games, the tool didn't catch his numbers for a bit.
It only counts supply once a unit finishes (the ingame counter itself counts once a unit starts building as we all know), so it sometimes differs a bit.
Regarding the Draco game I believe Kennigit made a small mistake when working with the tool at the start of the game, which is only to be expected though, since he has so many things to handle
On May 11 2008 09:20 Caladan wrote: I just wanted to say, that the result of a game was known on gg.net actually hours before you streamed it: http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft/gosubet/31825 Look comments #39 and #45. You wanted to disqualify players who told the results to others... any consequences or was this just trash talk?
It was simply a lucky guess. There were a number of people saying they knew results (something in the area of 20) and all of them were wrong. This one just happened to be right score wise - he still got the details of game 3 wrong.
That was amazing. The talent and creativity of all the teams came together perfectly. You guys did a wonderful job and I couldn't really have expected anything more. Keep on keeping on ~
On May 11 2008 09:18 thedeadhaji wrote: - Some glitches in the Min/Gas/Supply tool, such as in the Kr vs Paranoid game 1, 17 minutes in Paranoid's unit count is stuck at 109 while the top right shows him at around 130. The problem is fixed though after about 1 minute. Beginning of one of Draco's games, the tool didn't catch his numbers for a bit.
It only counts supply once a unit finishes (the ingame counter itself counts once a unit starts building as we all know), so it sometimes differs a bit.
Regarding the Draco game I believe Kennigit made a small mistake when working with the tool at the start of the game, which is only to be expected though, since he has so many things to handle
ah, that makes sense then since he probably made like 8 ultras, and that would be 32 supply
i wrote a few times in the tsl live thread, but i'll say it here again!
really great job...it was just unbelievable and professional...the intro just rocked, the probe animation was awesome - really korean style.....it was unbelievable!
only one point of criticism...the camera and the commentary didn't fit from time to time and i sometimes felt that the camera is missing some action one could see on the minimap!
but everything else was just flawless - exceptional work, guys!!!
First I saw this probe and the Intro vid I had my mouth open. I guess such videos and the art would even make the crew of a big game tv channel proud. The whole presentation was imo pretty professional. For me there is not much to criticize. The only thing that I can mention is what others wrote about the volume differences between intros and the commentators. But didnt bother me much cause I have my volume regulator on the table close to me.
So big THX to TSL and Razer for making this possible.
Aesthetically, it would be nice to have some sort of slide transition when switching between the player info screens and map info screens. But the stream was nevertheless awesome
The one only other complaint I have is to synchronize the volume of both the intros and all the casters, but this was addressed by another poster already.
Also I would like a request to keep some sort of starcraft in game music. Whether it is unit sounds or just the terran/toss/zerg background music, it would be nice to hear something while listening to the casts.
This amazing, I'm glad that the TL staff and everyone involved could bring this shit together. Now that I think about it there are too many people to thank
Great cast, thanks a lot guys. Yeah, the intro was louder than the actual comments, so I had to lower the volume for each intro but that's OK. Looking forward to watching tomorrow evening as well
Simply amazing in my opinion. I got disconnected a couple times but nothing serious and I was able ot reconnect almost immediately. The art was amazing, the intros were great. Overall the entire thing is amazing considering it was the first broadcast.
Great job guys. Can't wait for tomorrow, gogo Nony.
On May 11 2008 09:49 Chill wrote: We did sync the levels. Guess we sucked at it =[
No worries The caster's volumes were sync'ed (at least to me), it was just the intro's volume were waay too loud. I had to lower the volume each time it came up. But its no big deal though, I would still watch the stream even if you ignore the syncing. Its lots better than other streams, such as the OSL/MSL ones where lag spikes happen every few seconds if you were lucky enough to even get the stream working.
Good: -I like that all commentators each have their special roles. I don't know how much is practiced or arranged beforehand, but it worked out pretty well. -Nice work putting together the intro, the player portraits, the special website, the probe thingie. -Website didn't crash due to overload. -Stream had a relatively good quality. -Entertaining games.
Bad: -Volume on intro is a little higher than everything else. -Chill uses the word "clinic" a little too often (but is otherwise doing very well). -The chatroom applet on the website doesn't fit together with the video stream on the screen, so I wouldn't have been able to chat while watching unless I went on IRC manually with a different program. -I would have prefered shorter breaks between the games.
the cast was pretty good. i don't think having only a replay cast hurt it much, except for the fact that we don't get to see the ggs. it somewhat benefits us being able to see the players' queues and upgrades.
probe intro was uber sexy. so was the player intro. i do agree with some of the other posters in that real pictures of the players might've been better (not for the intro, but for when you're displaying player info).
excitement level of the commentators could be a little higher. it's probably pretty hard to do, but the commentating right now doesn't compare to the koreans yelling at all; there's just no energy to it.
also a minor point with the commentating. at the end of the last idra vs white-ra game, someone (not sure who) was saying that idra has held off the attack but is in a bad position, but when in fact, the attack was obviously not held off and that idra was going to have to gg pretty soon. it made me feel weirded out watching idra obviously losing but hearing the commentary telling me that it's all right.
On May 11 2008 09:40 b(O.o)p wrote: i wrote a few times in the tsl live thread, but i'll say it here again!
really great job...it was just unbelievable and professional...the intro just rocked, the probe animation was awesome - really korean style.....it was unbelievable!
only one point of criticism...the camera and the commentary didn't fit from time to time and i sometimes felt that the camera is missing some action one could see on the minimap!
but everything else was just flawless - exceptional work, guys!!!
I'm pretty sure it's b/c all 4 guys are watching different parts of the game, since they aren't commenting to the stream, but are rather commenting to the replay (not sure if I'm making myself entirely clear)
I didn't think it was that big a deal, you just had to focus a little more to process both what the voice is explaining, and what the observer is showing you (which may be two different things, but they should both be pertinent to the game).
Well I liked the cast. I think the only flaw overall was that obession with food limit the casters had. I think you should focus more on the other stuff and not point out the food limit too much or you will draw part of the interest in the tactics away. Besides that I think I've never enjoyed watching bw games live more than tonight so thanks for this and keep up the good job.
There were moments when the commentators were discussing something and Kennigit was off doing his own thing in some deserted corner of the map. And others when the minimap was showing a huge clash of forces (this happened several times on Kr vs Gosia game 1) and Kennigit is showing us gateways or something. I don't mind vods over replays normally but it seems like the retired progamer who observes progames professionally and has done thousands of them is better at it than Kennigit. And that's like totally unacceptable. Seriously though, it was awesome. Just those moments where a wall of one colour hits a wall of another on the minimap and I'm like "dear god i wish I could see the storms most likely being cast right now". <3
I thought it was very well done on a whole, just a couple minor issues imo. I thought the intro music volume needed to be turned down just a little, I ended up adjusting my volume every time it came on just because it was at a different level from everything else. Other than that though I thought the commentary was excellent, the intro was very professional, and the graphics were great. I really enjoyed day one, I can't wait for tomorrow!
I'm really impressed by how professionally you guys pulled it off. I was expecting something along the lines of TL attack (not to say TL attack is bad) but it was close in quality to pro Korean matches. The commentary was really smooth. Did you guys practice alot? All it's missing is Tasteless and fangirls hiding their faces =)
Overall: It was fantastic! Great job! I was really surprised at how good the commentary was, actually. Not that I didn't expect you guys to put on a great show, but you exceeded my expectations as far as analysis goes. There was a lack of anyone sounding very excited or energetic, but I guess when you are with a group of friends that particular void is easy to fill.
I was pleased the stream it ran so smoothly. I never once had buffering issues and the resolution and sound quality were great. When I saw someone say in the IRC room that there were over 1k viewers I was sure the stream would crash, but it held tight.
Now for my major complain: Volume normalization. This was a huge problem IMO and the only thing that really made the cast seem somewhat amateurish. At the start of the broadcast each caster's voice was at a different volume level (it seems like everyone somehow converged as time went on). The intro was consistently about 40% higher. Finally, the total lack of volume from the observer (starcraft sound effects) was kind of disappointing. Watching a silent SC game is not as fun as hearing the tanks and reavers and storms.
I really hope this issue can be resolved before the next broadcast. We were watching with a laptop hooked up to a 40" HDTV and had to keep using the remote to adjust the volume up and down and up and down, in a range between 40-80 (arbitrary TV range, but take my word this is a pretty large range for adjustment on this TV).
Like I said earlier though, everything else impressed the hell out of me. Great cast, great presentation, great games. Just fix the sound issue and this will be one slick professional star league! :D
All the pros and cons have been added already I think, so I'll just join on the praises (I really was surprised at the quality of some things, and I didn't expect this SMALL number of errors at all).
And the cons have mostly all been said, I'll just add my own personal one here, namely that I believe the time counter could really have gone somewhere else, like the top left, or a separate one in the top right. Other than that, nothing more to add
- The volume level of the intro was much higher than the game/caster volume, so I kept having to adjust at the start of games. - Aftergame stream hiccups, but that was explained, so...
LOVED:
- The intros, both mrow probe and the OSL/MSL type. - All three casters input. - The player and map information/introduction screens. - Kennigits' observing being pretty spot on. - The helpful players -> colors guide at the top and the awesome min/gas/supply counters covering up the progress bar for the replays. - TSL being damned awesome in general.
Amazing. This would be perfect event to introduce people to Starcraft imo. Great shoutcasting great matches great analysis.
I only noticed once where the observer 'missed' some muta harrass, but the main armies were about to clash, and then the players pulled back for a second, so I think it just made it look like the observer was missing stuff, when I think he was just knowingly ignoring the harass for the main armies (which did fight just a moment later than expected).
Now that the streams issue has been explained, the casts were amazing. It's great to be able to watch close to pro level games with english commentators (and I loved the GSI for the same reason)
One wish that will probably never be fulfilled (I know it's expecting a lot). English subs
I would have liked post-match interviews, which would be hard to do... but still possible. even if it was just post-match comments transcribed and collected by the match observer when the game was originally played and passed onto the commentators after they casted.
On May 11 2008 12:10 Goosey wrote: Now for my major complain: Volume normalization. This was a huge problem IMO and the only thing that really made the cast seem somewhat amateurish. At the start of the broadcast each caster's voice was at a different volume level (it seems like everyone somehow converged as time went on). The intro was consistently about 40% higher. Finally, the total lack of volume from the observer (starcraft sound effects) was kind of disappointing. Watching a silent SC game is not as fun as hearing the tanks and reavers and storms.
I totally didnt notice, but now that you mention it, I do miss the sounds. I guess I was too preoccupied, but ya, obs sounds (no need for bw music) to be on (at a low volume of course)
A word on the commentators: The commentators got the overall gist of what they were supposed to do. They were enthusiastic and often were very observative in pointing out various features of the gameplay that we were witnessing. As for constructive criticism, mouse control for the observer could be practiced. I also think that they should practice commentating together before doing it on a big event like this out of the blue, it would help them work a lot of the kinks out. Also, maybe not for the typical viewer, but for someone who knows these players very well and knows the game very well it is slightly irritating when the commentator would say "ohh That was really great! or whoah did you see that, that was awesome!" when they weren't able to explain why they thought it was awesome, how they could do that would be possibly to point to previous games or point out mistakes on one of the player's part or etc. Overall though GJ.
I feel bad for idra's play though. Imo idra's best play would stomp ra without end, but I don't think he was in a good enough emotional condition to play. It seems hard having to adjust in korea all by hisself. I will watch for his future play though I believe, even though he played under his potential, that it was beneficial for him as a player to have this exposure, I expect the arrival of his reign of dominance as a matter of when, and not if.
really great job guys i just hope there is a terran/zerg themed intro ahead! haha
oh, and you guys need to upload the intro video and stuff to youtube to get it some more exposure!
also, i agree there needs to be the sc bg music going on during commentary. and i want to hear some emotion during key moments, like AHH STORM!!!! or whatever
On May 11 2008 10:22 Kwark wrote: There were moments when the commentators were discussing something and Kennigit was off doing his own thing in some deserted corner of the map. And others when the minimap was showing a huge clash of forces (this happened several times on Kr vs Gosia game 1) and Kennigit is showing us gateways or something. I don't mind vods over replays normally but it seems like the retired progamer who observes progames professionally and has done thousands of them is better at it than Kennigit. And that's like totally unacceptable. Seriously though, it was awesome. Just those moments where a wall of one colour hits a wall of another on the minimap and I'm like "dear god i wish I could see the storms most likely being cast right now". <3
word so w/e nothing new to add OH if u didnt see my comment before already during the cast
in draco vs strelok strelok's scouting scv was hiding in a corner of his base for so long i saw it on the screen but none of you commented on it it allowed strelok to scout the fast dts thus showing why he built his acad and ebay so fast
game might have ended even earlier if it wasn't for that scv / draco not remembering to kill it
On May 11 2008 16:19 LosingID8 wrote: really great job guys i just hope there is a terran/zerg themed intro ahead! haha
oh, and you guys need to upload the intro video and stuff to youtube to get it some more exposure!
also, i agree there needs to be the sc bg music going on during commentary. and i want to hear some emotion during key moments, like AHH STORM!!!! or whatever
i think there are actually SC sounds playing during the stream this is a point i would like to make actually i think it would be nice to make sc sounds louder it just makes the game more interesting being able to hear the game effects sounds
Besides the cast going down in-between games, the cast was great.
I had no video with Windows Media Player, and VLC didn't even start. I watched the show with GOM Player using the alternative link, but with mms:// instead of mmsh:// at the start.
I think the casting as it is is decent for us StarCraft fans. However, if we are trying to appeal to a more mainstream crowd, commentators simply must show more emotion / excitement. Another thing I noticed is that the commentators did not want to interrupt each other even when important events were going on that needed casting. I don't know if this was a lag issue or not, but I find abrupt interjections of commentators really draws my attention to the cast more, so stop being so polite! To truly emulate the Korean StarLeague feel, the commentating has to step it up a notch.
For a first time event on such a large scale, I think TL did superbly.
You guys have been doing a really good commentary, but sometimes it was a bit behind in time in relationship to the actions on the battlefield. It felt like every commentator wanted to finish his sentence and then another one picks up the situation on the battlefield. And a bit more excitement couldn't hurt either because the only time i can think of someone (Chill?) raised his voice was when Draco transferred his probes into a mine in the 2nd game.
I enjoyed every second of it. Didnt have absolutely no problems with the stream. It stopped only once for about a minute between the games. Commentaries were absolutely great. I think Artosis is born for commentating starcraft. Cant wait for tonight games.
If I was to voice a recommendation it would be echoing that of LosingID8 and encourage the casters to show more emotion during the key moments of a game (reaver drops/storms/vulture raids/etc). It creates agood atmosphere and makes watching the game more intense.
I thoroughly enjoyed it. I am proud to be a part of the TSL team, and glad to be able to contribute what little talents I have to the success of this league ^^;
Let's keep it up, guys!
Any criticisms I have would be simply re-hashings of what's been previously said.
Great job guys! One TINY thing I have to add: The pronouncement of the Clan ToT is "Toat" and not "tod" like you said it. Its originally a german clan as u know and in German "tot" means "dead". Im sure when the clan was founded, this was intended. I guess you could say that I just wanna hear ToT pronounced the way that Mr.ToT himself, Mondi, would pronounce it.
the only things to cross my mind to criticise are a bit loud intro, and the obs guy (kennigt?) missing the action due to watching the buildings for 5 sec, I know protoss buildings are nice and they shine, but the fights are of the essence! great job! :D
loved the MEOW MEOW probe and everything, players descriptiones were very nice, some facts mixed in with humour, great stuff. and the graphics <3.
comentators are nice, mani with his manly voice, artorisis with funny comments and chill with a bit of blunt "look at this noob" attitude; perfect mix! :D
the irc channel was on fire all the time, the cheerfuls and reactiones - insane! anyone got some transcriptiones of some funny moments in irc? I remember there were quite a few! then I got banned (with a reason xD sry, I was excited).
A tip to kennigit, cuase I believe it is his screen we are looking at. Try not to scroll the screen as much. Imo it's better to click a few, fewer times in the minimap to see a unit walk, than to follow it by scrolling after it. It makes me sea-sick.
In movies i would be: pick a few scenes to describe an action, instead of prolonging one scene.
This because SC cant scroll smooth, and if you are not the one in control, it makes you seasick.
Try to avoid taking sides. While "who do I think will win" is fine, you guys overdid it a bit during Idra's and Cloud's games (perhaps you weren't even serious, in that case my bad).
The commentary was awesome, not flawless, but still one of the best I've heard so far. The intro's were great, especially "The Probe" Showing a bit more emotion would be great, too, and you guys missed a couple of key moments, too. But I'm sure it'll improve over time .
The whole thing is just amazing. Would never have expected such professionalism out of korea. Incredibly good job. Thx so much.
Only criticism I can think of is maybe a little lack of emotion in the casting. I remember one game when some awesome psi storms went off on Streloks tanks and you guys didn't even get excited. Think Tasteless! And freak out a bit :D
Also its a tiny bit strange that all of you obviously watch the replays at the same time and therefore every caster has its own game to look at, while the viewer only sees one observerview who sometimes misses things now and then. So the casters are talking about stuff that the viewer didn't see. This takes some getting used to
I've only seen the first 2 sets because I had to leave after that. It was amazing, very professional.
The biggest plus was ofcourse Mani's incredibly sexy voice, he sounded as manly as Reach! There were some flaws with the tools of the observer that showed the current score and the mineral count, but you will have probably noted that yourself.
Perhaps it changed later on, but I would have liked a bit more speaking time for Artosis, I really like his insight and his commentating, but that is just personal preference ofcourse. Can't wait till tonight.
Kennigit has to show more action. You can show what buildings are made after the battle is over.
I'd like to hear more Artosis and maybe Chill too. I don't mind the lack of emotion at all. I actually prefer this way but I did hear other people comment/complain on it.
In my opinion the biggest weakness of the presentation was the commentating
Everything was so professional and so incredibly well done that I think it made the commentary appear amateurish in comparison.
When you've put together such a credible and professional package as this that rivals even the korean starleagues in presentation, I think it's a little remiss to have the commentators be TL staff instead of proven quality commentators. Or, if it's an absolute necessity that one is an admin (and it's understandable if that's the case) then they should probably take a back seat to Artosis.
Everyone has their preference with commentators but I believe he's proven himself to be among the best with a combination of excitement and strategic insight that I think is rivaled by none.
i think that if you want something to appeal to a larger crowd than people who are already huge fans of the administration here, that the commentating should be someone who is exciting and fun to listen to. It's for no other reason that I have to say Manifesto and to a lesser extent Chill aren't particularly amazing for the job. One can't discount the work they've done to put this whole thing together, it's absolutely commendable, but it's doubtful someone would want to listen to a bad singer, people probably don't want to listen to someone who doesn't have a phenomenal radio voice.
There were some glaring examples, albeit in the first set so maybe it's just the announcer rust, where manifesto was talking rather drone like over a pivotal moment where strelok lost his army. While he had some great things to say, his ability to commentate on immediate play was poor. Where Artosis would have been all over the events that were unfolding if Manifesto had taken a step back from the mic from time to time.
Chill on the other hand I feel commentates from his strategy forum pedestal. I just don't want to hear how bad this or that is, or what a lesser player would do. He just seems to have this mentality of pointing out everything wrong, and when nothing is wrong he will tell us how a lesser player would do x or y wrong. It's just unnecessary to be honest.
On another note, I get the feeling you guys watched a lot of UFC events together, I hear a lot of Goldbergisms, everything pays dividends and puts on clinics. A lot of people mentioned this. It's really not a big deal and my most nitpicky point.
All in all, I just feel like Artosis is the greatest asset from a commentary point of view and he is being drown out a lot. I'd love to hear it be about 60% Artosis and 40% the other commentators. This isn't for any reason other than I think Artosis is the stronger commentator, and that a bigger presence will lead to overall a better quality production. Thank you for reading my internet friends.
It was amazing, I really liked EVERYTHING. I think the only thing is Manifesto's mic has some static but hardly noticeable. I think you guys are doing an awesome job. GOGO TSL!!
I didn't read any other posts, and I hope you guys read this, but let me say that I would feel wrong pointing out any problems, as what I experienced last night was really awesome and to complain would be pointless. The quality was great, the commentary was great, the games were great, the filler between games was great. I hope you get the cheerfuls working soon!
I really have no suggestions. You motherfuckers know what you're doing already.
Loved the intro, loved the commentary, loved the games. I do think that what the observer focuses on could be improved, though. A few times I noticed that a fairly large battle was taking place, while the focus was still on one of the player's bases. Overall, it was great though. I enjoyed it a lot more than most professional matches.
I must say, I just watched my first game (damn my slow internet), and I loved the commentary. I don't think any commentator was specifically dominant, and no commentator made better points. Everyone pointed out interesting things on their turns, and all in all I enjoyed the cast. I loved mani's commentary, but I also loved Artosis when he mentioned things. And Chill does a perfect job of pointing out things not everyone would notice. Seriously, I thought the commentary balance was brilliant.
the broadcast lacks sponsor's ads... it's not a joke...
i think someone should take care of it, actually the sponsor should take care about itself, however, it seems that razer does not realize about what is the scale of the event, right now it does not provide any serious ads in the broadcast, does not even drop a single word about tsl on its main page, i think someone should straightly explain (i do believe it was already done, but is seems that it need to be emphasized more) to razer representatives what is the recent scale of the event, so that razer would take more out of it, sincerely the tournament LACKS PR, it is known only to narrow range of people: tl, gg, icc (although, on icc there isn't even a single word about ro16 and broadcast), even the sponsor does not say any word, well, i believe future is still ahead, but i also believe that it should be tried to inform more people, especially from esport environments, about the tsl, there is really great number of inactive starcraft players, who would enjoy watching such a tournament, but does not even heard about it, or it is to far for them to go to tl.net page, if they had it on their own esport/other sites, they will surelly attend broadcasts more willingly
we all smell that this tournament has great potential...
Yes, he is right. Ads = more potential customers = more potential revenue = potentially greater prize pool (and coverage, technology, etc) for future events
On May 12 2008 00:37 pms wrote: the broadcast lacks sponsor's ads... it's not a joke...
i think someone should take care of it, actually the sponsor should take care about itself, however, it seems that razer does not realize about what is the scale of the event, right now it does not provide any serious ads in the broadcast, does not even drop a single word about tsl on its main page, i think someone should straightly explain (i do believe it was already done, but is seems that it need to be emphasized more) to razer representatives what is the recent scale of the event, so that razer would take more out of it, sincerely the tournament LACKS PR, it is known only to narrow range of people: tl, gg, icc (although, on icc there isn't even a single word about ro16 and broadcast), even the sponsor does not say any word, well, i believe future is still ahead, but i also believe that it should be tried to inform more people, especially from esport environments, about the tsl, there is really great number of inactive starcraft players, who would enjoy watching such a tournament, but does not even heard about it, or it is to far for them to go to tl.net page, if they had it on their own esport/other sites, they will surelly attend broadcasts more willingly
we all smell that this tournament has great potential...
I agree actually... use some of the dead time in between sets to air maybe an ad or two from Razer. That would make it seem even more professional and show Razer how great of a decision it was to sponser the TSL.
Was really good, pretty professional. My only complain is to whoever was controlling the camera, he seemed to be confused at times what to be looking at.
For example, he sometimes missed critical tech, expansions or whatever for a long time, he also switched to looking at the players tech when there was a fight going on. He also has to improve his mouse accuracy haha, try to use drag boxes less often.
On May 12 2008 02:24 iG.ClouD wrote: I think the screen guy did a pretty cool job actually o,o
Yeah i hear he's a baller
xD
Yeah, I thought you did a great job. You don't have to show everything because it keeps the viewer in suspense. The Korean commentators intentionally focus on major battles so that when new units pop up, they have reason to scream.
As I've already pointed out to mani in another thread, there was a lack of excitement and loudness from the commentators when the appropriate exciting situations rose in-games. I think it's really important to have that excitement coming from the commentators. I like how the MSL guys do it now..they have a couple commentators both yelling at the same time.. often just yelling out a unit/building name like "ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh SCVEEEeeeeeeeeeee SCVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!"
The perfect example is from 12:15 to 12:40 in the recent MSL Group F match:
haha i really liked the scream at 12:37
If you guys could pull something like this off then I think your commentary would be just about perfect...plus the hundreds of viewers watching would just die in happiness
and oh ya I was overall very impressed by yesterday's cast..you can really tell how much work has gone into this by so many people. amazing for your first ever live cast like this
x make it visible, make extra links! It's a pain, especially for newcomers who should be one of the main target groups to dig for the information. Make a *fixed*, easy visible extra link, from which the necessary information can be obtained. You should *NOT* have to search for it! Easy to find is not good enough. Idiot-proof (for guys like me) is the word...
x FAQ! especially for technical problems ("Why do i only hear audio?")
x to keep the money coming: some Ads from the main sponsor are nice, if it does not crowd the presentation
x Razor Embed-Presentation Webpage: Possibility to kill the channel notifications would be nice - it tends to crowd the chat
On May 12 2008 01:42 Midnight)Sun wrote: Ads = more potential customers = more potential revenue = potentially greater prize pool (and coverage, technology, etc) for future events
This what i exactly mean. Our strategic resource is our sponsor. If we don't take care of ours resource spot, we'll lose the whole tournament...
I loved the commentary. I don't think they need to ape the Korean commentators by screaming like girls whenever there's a battle or someone pulls a cheese.
If only Tasteless had someone like Artosis with better game sense for actual analysis on _his_ casts.
Great stuff guys. The commentators did really good job. I dont know why, but i find Artosis's comments and the way he is commentating really funny - keep it up please :-).
Few things i'd like to mention:
- Like it was said, you really need to add more excitement. For example in Cloud vs. JianFei when cloud denied JFs scouting probe with his single zealot, i mean it really deserved some attention and excitement while it was happening. - I dont know if it was just this one thing or if it happened more often, but during idra/white ra second MU(Othello), you didnt give any attention to the fact, that Idra had built an academy and thus was able to defend against white ra's DTs. I dont know if he scouted that templar archives or just anticipated it, but imho it should be mentioned.
But overall 11/10 for this event! GL in the future.
As for me the whole coverage is working pretty good, there are just some minor problems/things to be done.
Instead there's one much bigger question, it's the question of HOW TO BRING TSL TO THE WORLD, it's matter of how many people will watch the broadcast, and how well advertised would it be, we have to seek for people outside ours communities (of tl, icc, gg) who would be interested in watching the broadcast, we need to show that we are able to gather the number of spectators which will sound interesting to potential sponsors, without sponsors&their money we will never get to the level shown be koreans, and of course we will never have such shows as they do have.
Because of this reason now we should focus on advertising the TSL among the different sites/peple rather than focusing on improving the lesser important things. There should be some PR CAMPAIGN planned and conducted, without it chances of TSL survival will be reduced.
Not to being groundless: I have actually started to tell about broadcast to all my old sc friends and written about it on my university's gaming newsgroup. ANYONE OF US SHOULD DO ANYTHING HE IS ABLE TO IN ORDER TO MAKE TSL FAMOUS.
I was very impressed and happy to see some non Korean starcraft action! I loved it! The intros owned but the only thing I would change is to get the video to play above the chatbox. I had to go fullscreen to see it, but to chat, Id have to exit then I miss action. But except for that, awesome!
On May 12 2008 04:08 HaiVan wrote: I would like it if there was more korean style shouting and exciting from the casters. Don't say it, scream it Otherwise you're doing a great job!
Agreed. I'd say learn from Tasteless a bit in this regard. No one has to go all out like he does in his latest casts (which I really enjoy), but even just halfway and adding a little bit of shouting would make an already great commentary even better.
Really good work guys! I especially liked the thorough commentary for the JF vs Cloud games. I can't but to be impressed the overall professional-like skill of the broadcasting. You don't even shout over each other no matter how excited you are
TSL is not getting enough attention.. i wish there would be more advertising around various gaming sites, i tried to adv. some on some swedish gaming sites, but didn't get alot of response.
wow, to be honest, I haven't been following sc or havent played it in 3 years, I just still visit TL for dota and knowing the new internet fads ;-), but two days ago, I started following the streams and wow, TSL is great! First of all congratulations on this whole organisation, it looks so professional, the casters are really great, stream is going flawless for me and games have been really good so far. Second of all, HOW GREAT A GAME IS STARCRAFT? wow, i completely forgot how much I loved this game, I really feel like playing again, too bad they dont sell it anymore in Belgium, I'm going to look on e-bay right now :-)
PLEASE start the stream earlier. It's 1:30 AM here right now and the last bo3 didn't even start yet. That *REALLY* limits the number of people from Europe + Asia watching the live stream. 22:30 cet pretty much only works for Americans.
To all those asking for more SCOURGEEEE and PLAGUUUU, it's better that they don't do it then if they do it and it sounds fake. If they really wanted that kind of stuff, they could get another commentator who only does play by play commentating and has a majestic singing voice. I can't think of anyone like that though other then tastleless and he's a little busy.
Amazing work, I don't watch as much Starcraft as I used to, but this is must-see: - quality games - professional-looking VODs with very nice game presentations, intros and in-game stats - great commentary (with special props to Chill)
I was truly blown away, thank you so much guys for making this happen.
If I had to point something that could maybe be improved on a little bit, it would be the clicking of the obs, I can remember quite a lot of times where something I noticed on the minimap (such as a drop) was never shown.
EPT
Just the opinion of me! Great job guys!
Looking forward to next cast!
