UpMagic: UpMagic has done well, but within a 2 week span he played Jaedong, Bisu, and Sea. He got mangled by all three and bounced out of Power Rank. Looks like he kind of did revert back to ol' unreliable UpMagic, but we'll see if he can do it again and with more consistancy in the future.
Anytime: Good job, beat someone other than a nobody once in a while though.
Yarnc/Luxury: Still waiting for these guys to.. you know... DO something. They don't win often enough to place without some OSL/MSL results.
Really? I should have waited until the month was a third over before releasing the Power Rank? Are you fucking nuts?
Furthermore, the ranking doesn't change, regardless of what happens between Jaedong and Bisu. Jaedong losing to Bisu isn't something anyone should be surprised by, and considering EVERY zerg loses to Bisu, its not something that would put Bisu above Jaedong in the Power Rank. Not when Jaedong is as dominant against Zerg as Bisu is, and much better against Terran. On the other hand, if Jaedong wins, he's already got the top spot.
So no, I shouldn't have waited until after January 8th to post the Power Rank.
Great power rank, the only thing i would like to change is xellos over flash and light. I also feel that FBH is getting better (even though people hate him).
On January 03 2008 06:23 3 Lions wrote: if nada wins his group for ODT and MSL, he should be in top 10 for feb
Surely it takes more than that to qualify for Power Rank? Nostalgia aside, Nada hasn't exactly been a win factory lately, or even a source of impressive play.
Yes, he has posted results lately by placing 3rd in the OSL and 2nd in the MSL. No other player made the semis of either of those, and only savior made the Ro8 of both. However, judging by play during this month alone, Bisu looked completely outclassed by Stork and very sloppy over Up (except for game 1, I feel that Up played that series very poorly), and it leads me to believe that Bisu can't beat anybody but zergs in his current form (excluding the "nobodies" that Anytime beats consistently). He has to be able to play more matchups than just PvZ, and unfortunately, he stacked his MSL group to hide any weakness he has in other matchups (and I hope he gets raped by Jaedong and July for it too)
Other than that I'd put Anytime instead of Xellos as #10, but I don't feel terribly strong about that.
Everything else looks good (especially Jaedong at #1)
On January 03 2008 06:35 Sunyveil wrote: hmmm I have to disagree with Bisu at no. 2
Yes, he has posted results lately by placing 3rd in the OSL and 2nd in the MSL. No other player made the semis of either of those, and only savior made the Ro8 of both. However, judging by play during this month alone, Bisu looked completely outclassed by Stork and very sloppy over Up (except for game 1, I feel that Up played that series very poorly), and it leads me to believe that Bisu can't beat anybody but zergs in his current form (excluding the "nobodies" that Anytime beats consistently). He has to be able to play more matchups than just PvZ, and unfortunately, he stacked his MSL group to hide any weakness he has in other matchups (and I hope he gets raped by Jaedong and July for it too)
Other than that I'd put Anytime instead of Xellos as #10, but I don't feel terribly strong about that.
Everything else looks good (especially Jaedong at #1)
The thing to consider is that Bisu is more likely to repeat his strong performance in both leagues than anyone else. With the way Bisu plays we sort of have to wait for something to happen before he gets moved. Stork, on the other hand, is just useless PvZ, and didn't make MSL. If he'd made MSL and the series against Jaedong was a little less of a blowout, Bisu wouldn't be #2. He's fortunate Stork played like ass in the last half of december.
edit: as for Xellos and Anytime, look at Anytime's games list. Every strong opponent he's faced has handed him a loss. And hell, Xellos ran Anytime the fuck over in their OSC group stage game
Oh, right. I was watching his December games earlier and I didn't watch his ODT group. He 2-0'd it though, and I'd bet he could do that playing any which way.
On January 03 2008 06:35 Sunyveil wrote: hmmm I have to disagree with Bisu at no. 2
Yes, he has posted results lately by placing 3rd in the OSL and 2nd in the MSL. No other player made the semis of either of those, and only savior made the Ro8 of both. However, judging by play during this month alone, Bisu looked completely outclassed by Stork and very sloppy over Up (except for game 1, I feel that Up played that series very poorly), and it leads me to believe that Bisu can't beat anybody but zergs in his current form (excluding the "nobodies" that Anytime beats consistently). He has to be able to play more matchups than just PvZ, and unfortunately, he stacked his MSL group to hide any weakness he has in other matchups (and I hope he gets raped by Jaedong and July for it too)
Other than that I'd put Anytime instead of Xellos as #10, but I don't feel terribly strong about that.
Everything else looks good (especially Jaedong at #1)
The thing to consider is that Bisu is more likely to repeat his strong performance in both leagues than anyone else. With the way Bisu plays we sort of have to wait for something to happen before he gets moved. Stork, on the other hand, is just useless PvZ, and didn't make MSL. If he'd made MSL and the series against Jaedong was a little less of a blowout, Bisu wouldn't be #2. He's fortunate Stork played like ass in the last half of december.
ah so I think what you're saying is that it's more of a comparative thing than an absolute thing, and that nobody else is "better" let alone "good enough"
On January 03 2008 06:23 3 Lions wrote: if nada wins his group for ODT and MSL, he should be in top 10 for feb
Surely it takes more than that to qualify for Power Rank? Nostalgia aside, Nada hasn't exactly been a win factory lately, or even a source of impressive play.
But, nada's group for ODT is a group of death, he will face yarnc and probably savior too if he wins both games, then he has just beat the #7 and some other guy in the top 15
Oh, right. I was watching his December games earlier and I didn't watch his ODT group. He 2-0'd it though, and I'd bet he could do that playing any which way.
Well, the first game luxury fucking 4 pooled him and lux played the other game like shit too. But won vs Shudder is what it seems it could be the worst game of 2008 already. Getting past his ODT group is not an accomplishment when shitty players and cheeses the only real contender, UpMagic.
On January 03 2008 06:19 triangle wrote: I think you should have waited until the Bisu-Jaedong game.
He's right because, in December at least, Jaedong did a lot better than Bisu. I can't wait until they play though, except I'm kind of disappointed the game is happening on Blue Storm.
I was realy sad when Bisu lost to Stork, I knew that n00b would lose to Jaedong bigtime, only bisu can stop him now, hes got the magic Stork so desperately needs.
I'm glad Upmagic dropped off the PR. I wasn't too sure why he was on it to begin with and this last month he showed massive weakness. I'm a gigantic Savior fan, so I wouldn't have dropped him as far as 7th, but I gotta admit, he deserved a big drop. Savior's play on Katrina in particular has been abysmal, and his other games in December didn't look too good either. Beating Hwasin was about all Savior did in December. I hope he bounces back.
On January 03 2008 06:35 Sunyveil wrote: hmmm I have to disagree with Bisu at no. 2
Yes, he has posted results lately by placing 3rd in the OSL and 2nd in the MSL. No other player made the semis of either of those, and only savior made the Ro8 of both. However, judging by play during this month alone, Bisu looked completely outclassed by Stork and very sloppy over Up (except for game 1, I feel that Up played that series very poorly), and it leads me to believe that Bisu can\'t beat anybody but zergs in his current form (excluding the \"nobodies\" that Anytime beats consistently). He has to be able to play more matchups than just PvZ, and unfortunately, he stacked his MSL group to hide any weakness he has in other matchups (and I hope he gets raped by Jaedong and July for it too)
Other than that I\'d put Anytime instead of Xellos as #10, but I don\'t feel terribly strong about that.
Everything else looks good (especially Jaedong at #1)
The thing to consider is that Bisu is more likely to repeat his strong performance in both leagues than anyone else. With the way Bisu plays we sort of have to wait for something to happen before he gets moved. Stork, on the other hand, is just useless PvZ, and didn\'t make MSL. If he\'d made MSL and the series against Jaedong was a little less of a blowout, Bisu wouldn\'t be #2. He\'s fortunate Stork played like ass in the last half of december.
ah so I think what you\'re saying is that it\'s more of a comparative thing than an absolute thing, and that nobody else is \"better\" let alone \"good enough\"
Well you're saying Bisu didn't look great, but great compared to what? Stork? Losing a PvP series, given the nature of the matchup, isn't the end of the world. Stork crashed and burned against Jaedong and sucked every dick he could find in Survivor. That definitely puts him below Bisu, and everything Stork and Bisu have done put them above everyone else (except for Jaedong, of course). That makes it Jaedong 1, Bisu 2, Stork 3.
Yes! Jaedong on top, I knew he'd be #1. It's sad to see Savior drop so much, but he's been playing pretty poorly lately, so I won't argue about rankings. Overall, pretty nice power rank.
I absolutely love the new dominating Xellos we are seeing these days. He's shown flashes now and then, but it seems like he is finally getting it together. Some of his wins are oov-esque in the way he demolishes his opponents. Hope he can keep it up and win something again.
On January 03 2008 06:35 Sunyveil wrote: hmmm I have to disagree with Bisu at no. 2
Yes, he has posted results lately by placing 3rd in the OSL and 2nd in the MSL. No other player made the semis of either of those, and only savior made the Ro8 of both. However, judging by play during this month alone, Bisu looked completely outclassed by Stork and very sloppy over Up (except for game 1, I feel that Up played that series very poorly), and it leads me to believe that Bisu can't beat anybody but zergs in his current form (excluding the "nobodies" that Anytime beats consistently). He has to be able to play more matchups than just PvZ, and unfortunately, he stacked his MSL group to hide any weakness he has in other matchups (and I hope he gets raped by Jaedong and July for it too)
Other than that I'd put Anytime instead of Xellos as #10, but I don't feel terribly strong about that.
Everything else looks good (especially Jaedong at #1)
Jesus, give the man a break. He was pretty sick with flu and had to practice for and play a TV match, but still came out on top in a Bo5. Other than game 4 on Persona, they were also decently played games, which is more than I can say for Stork's entire series vs Jaedong.
Also, great rank. I agree with pretty much all the choices. It really is true that you have to watch the games to see each player's real form (like for Much).
Stork should be above Bisu. You know, there is this wonderful thing called Proleague. . .
And besides that, Bisu looked very weak in the OSL. I saw his series vs. Stork. It was honestly the most one-sided rape I have ever seen. Stork raped Bisu. Bisu did beat Upmagic but he still looked shaky in that series; let's not consider the fact that Up is not the best of Terrans.
Yes Stork is out of MSL but as was previously stated it was a worthy sacrifice for his OSL run. Bottom line is that Stork has a better chance of winning against a Terran or Protoss than Bisu. I believe he is in better shape overall.
On January 03 2008 09:30 TheTyranid wrote: Stork should be above Bisu. You know, there is this wonderful thing called Proleague. . .
And besides that, Bisu looked very weak in the OSL. I saw his series vs. Stork. It was honestly the most one-sided rape I have ever seen. Stork raped Bisu. Bisu did beat Upmagic but he still looked shaky in that series; let's not consider the fact that Up is not the best of Terrans.
Yes Stork is out of MSL but as was previously stated it was a worthy sacrifice for his OSL run. Bottom line is that Stork has a better chance of winning against a Terran or Protoss than Bisu. I believe he is in better shape overall.
A sacrifice for his OSL run? Stork got 2nd place in OSL and didn't place in MSL. In that same OSL, Bisu got 3rd place, and in the same MSL Stork didn't place in, Bisu got 2nd place. If these are the things you focus on why the HELL would you put Stork over Bisu?
Stork may have slightly better PvP and PvT, but he fucks up when it matters and he played like ASS against Jaedong and during his Survivor group. I don't care whether you think Stork has "two matchups to Bisu's one" or any other garbage that people try to say. Stork played like shit for the last two weeks of the month and Bisu placed top 3 in both leagues.
ughhh i just dont understand why sea is so damn high T____T he lost his osc against much, and still has yet to advance newhere in individual leagues... sure he is doing good in proleague, but so are many other ppl who are also in either the osl or msl..... no matter how much savior has dropped, you know he will advance farther than sea in both leagues -_-;
On January 03 2008 10:30 koryano321 wrote: ughhh i just dont understand why sea is so damn high T____T he lost his osc against much, and still has yet to advance newhere in individual leagues... sure he is doing good in proleague, but so are many other ppl who are also in either the osl or msl..... no matter how much savior has dropped, you know he will advance farther than sea in both leagues -_-;
Here's an easy answer for you: Watch the games. Maybe then you'll understand.
All of Savior's recent games have been ugly as hell (compared to his past form). Sea, even though he just barely lost the OSC to Much, has showed very solid play in game after game throughout the whole month.
Hm, I can't fault this rank at all. Stork blew his chances at being the top, as he always does. nevertheless, both Bisu and Stork are going to have to start showing results again if they want to take the number one slot. I'm certain Bisu will, because it was obvious being sick affected his play and he still managed good placements in both leagues. I suppose Stork will be the same, he's a little train engine of good placements, even if he fucks up the finals.
On January 03 2008 09:30 TheTyranid wrote: Stork should be above Bisu. You know, there is this wonderful thing called Proleague. . .
And besides that, Bisu looked very weak in the OSL. I saw his series vs. Stork. It was honestly the most one-sided rape I have ever seen. Stork raped Bisu. Bisu did beat Upmagic but he still looked shaky in that series; let's not consider the fact that Up is not the best of Terrans.
Yes Stork is out of MSL but as was previously stated it was a worthy sacrifice for his OSL run. Bottom line is that Stork has a better chance of winning against a Terran or Protoss than Bisu. I believe he is in better shape overall.
A sacrifice for his OSL run? Stork got 2nd place in OSL and didn't place in MSL. In that same OSL, Bisu got 3rd place, and in the same MSL Stork didn't place in, Bisu got 2nd place. If these are the things you focus on why the HELL would you put Stork over Bisu?
Stork may have slightly better PvP and PvT, but he fucks up when it matters and he played like ASS against Jaedong and during his Survivor group. I don't care whether you think Stork has "two matchups to Bisu's one" or any other garbage that people try to say. Stork played like shit for the last two weeks of the month and Bisu placed top 3 in both leagues.
I wasn't focusing on that. What I would want to focus on is PROLEAGUE. Yes Stork did choke but with Proleague in the picture Stork has a legitimate reason for being 2'nd place.
On January 03 2008 10:53 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: No, he doesn't. Having a good record in a six month long season and playing good right now are not the same thing.
i think you put too much faith in sea and much and way too little in savior although he has done badly in the proleague, he is still the maestro also stork got kicked out of the msl by ruby and luxury.
mind beat clon sangho free and mingu mind lost to haran free and luxury thats pretty much the definition of mediocrity and certainly not enough to push him up a slot. in fact, an msl champion should play like a champion, without losing to 2nd tier players
also bisu recently lost to ggplay who hasnt been good since like 2006. if bisu starts getting dominated by zergs, its over for him
On January 03 2008 10:53 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: No, he doesn't. Having a good record in a six month long season and playing good right now are not the same thing.
poor up he went from being in the semi finals in the osl to losing 0-3 to the 3rd/4th playoffs, then 2-3 to the OSC semis, then 1-2 to ODT and 1-2 into the offlines
On January 03 2008 11:08 kpcrew(Gg) wrote: i think you put too much faith in sea and much and way too little in savior although he has done badly in the proleague, he is still the maestro
savior hasn't been the maestro (dumbest nickname ever, btw) since bisu slammed him down in GomTV S1
savior is only ranked as high as he is in the power rank because of what he used to be. he's doing poorly in everything at the moment and you want him ranked even higher?
On January 03 2008 11:08 kpcrew(Gg) wrote: i think you put too much faith in sea and much and way too little in savior although he has done badly in the proleague, he is still the maestro also stork got kicked out of the msl by ruby and luxury.
mind beat clon sangho free and mingu mind lost to haran free and luxury thats pretty much the definition of mediocrity and certainly not enough to push him up a slot. in fact, an msl champion should play like a champion, without losing to 2nd tier players
also bisu recently lost to ggplay who hasnt been good since like 2006. if bisu starts getting dominated by zergs, its over for him
I think you put too much weight on the reputation of a player and not their ability to win games. Sea and Much are playing better than Savior is right now, Savior is getting wrecked by every Terran he plays and he looks terrible doing it. Even when he wins he looks like an awful player these days.
No shit Stork lost to Ruby and Luxury. Why are you bringing that up?
Mind's games are just fucking one-off ProLeague games. They don't say much about a player's abilities. For that matter, he's won more than he's lost. Haran/free/Luxury are all good enough to take a game now and then from ANYONE. Again, these games don't matter much.
Bisu is going to lose a PvZ now and then. He will never ever win every PvZ he ever plays. Even as good as he is right now. If you think one single game against GGPlay is a case for an anti-Bisu statement then you're out of your mind.
On January 03 2008 11:18 SoMuchBetter wrote: poor up he went from being in the semi finals in the osl to losing 0-3 to the 3rd/4th playoffs, then 2-3 to the OSC semis, then 1-2 to ODT and 1-2 into the offlines
On January 03 2008 11:18 SoMuchBetter wrote: poor up he went from being in the semi finals in the osl to losing 0-3 to the 3rd/4th playoffs, then 2-3 to the OSC semis, then 1-2 to ODT and 1-2 into the offlines
On January 03 2008 06:23 3 Lions wrote: if nada wins his group for ODT and MSL, he should be in top 10 for feb
Surely it takes more than that to qualify for Power Rank? Nostalgia aside, Nada hasn't exactly been a win factory lately, or even a source of impressive play.
On January 03 2008 11:08 kpcrew(Gg) wrote: i think you put too much faith in sea and much and way too little in savior although he has done badly in the proleague, he is still the maestro also stork got kicked out of the msl by ruby and luxury.
mind beat clon sangho free and mingu mind lost to haran free and luxury thats pretty much the definition of mediocrity and certainly not enough to push him up a slot. in fact, an msl champion should play like a champion, without losing to 2nd tier players
also bisu recently lost to ggplay who hasnt been good since like 2006. if bisu starts getting dominated by zergs, its over for him
I think you put too much weight on the reputation of a player and not their ability to win games. Sea and Much are playing better than Savior is right now, Savior is getting wrecked by every Terran he plays and he looks terrible doing it. Even when he wins he looks like an awful player these days.
No shit Stork lost to Ruby and Luxury. Why are you bringing that up?
Mind's games are just fucking one-off ProLeague games. They don't say much about a player's abilities. For that matter, he's won more than he's lost. Haran/free/Luxury are all good enough to take a game now and then from ANYONE. Again, these games don't matter much.
Bisu is going to lose a PvZ now and then. He will never ever win every PvZ he ever plays. Even as good as he is right now. If you think one single game against GGPlay is a case for an anti-Bisu statement then you're out of your mind.
some of the power rank defenses can be toned down ;/
Terrible play vs Jaedong and his Survivor group. If you think ProLeague is as important as that, you're nuts.
This keeps getting repeated as a reason why Stork is "weak." Let's put Bisu, who is supposedly stronger, into this sentence. This last December, Bisu is 3-6, and recently lost 1-3 to Mind. So...
Terrible play vs Mind and even worse play against Stork. Proleague isn't even supposed to be important, but Bisu still went ahead and lost to Hiya, some no-name Terran, anyway.
Stork's loss against Jaedong is about as bad as Bisu's loss to Mind. But Stork brutally raped Bisu 3-0. Bisu couldn't do anything in those games, he just showed up for the loses. They are not "close" in terms of PvP or PvT.
Bisu's only wins this month comes from an average TvP'er in UpMagic, and it was a close 3-2 series.
You know, UpMagic lost 0-3 to Jaedong too. Aside from that, he has had some mediocre victories. Which makes him much like Bisu, why isn't he #2 for PR?
On January 03 2008 11:08 kpcrew(Gg) wrote: i think you put too much faith in sea and much and way too little in savior although he has done badly in the proleague, he is still the maestro also stork got kicked out of the msl by ruby and luxury.
mind beat clon sangho free and mingu mind lost to haran free and luxury thats pretty much the definition of mediocrity and certainly not enough to push him up a slot. in fact, an msl champion should play like a champion, without losing to 2nd tier players
also bisu recently lost to ggplay who hasnt been good since like 2006. if bisu starts getting dominated by zergs, its over for him
I think you put too much weight on the reputation of a player and not their ability to win games. Sea and Much are playing better than Savior is right now, Savior is getting wrecked by every Terran he plays and he looks terrible doing it. Even when he wins he looks like an awful player these days.
No shit Stork lost to Ruby and Luxury. Why are you bringing that up?
Mind's games are just fucking one-off ProLeague games. They don't say much about a player's abilities. For that matter, he's won more than he's lost. Haran/free/Luxury are all good enough to take a game now and then from ANYONE. Again, these games don't matter much.
Bisu is going to lose a PvZ now and then. He will never ever win every PvZ he ever plays. Even as good as he is right now. If you think one single game against GGPlay is a case for an anti-Bisu statement then you're out of your mind.
some of the power rank defenses can be toned down ;/
So its OSL finals/Survivor fail vs stellar Proleague preformance/3-0 raping of Bisu. I will agree that the first outweighs the secong but the bottom line is that Stork is in better shape than Bisu despite those losses. Bisu is entering a slump and in January he will fail even more. Nobody can be dominating forever.
Btw, TLPD is not that relevant but check the recent preformance of the two players. Stork is 11-6 in Dec and Bisu is 3-6.
On January 03 2008 12:28 TheTyranid wrote: So its OSL finals/Survivor fail vs stellar Proleague preformance/3-0 raping of Bisu. I will agree that the first outweighs the secong but the bottom line is that Stork is in better shape than Bisu despite those losses. Bisu is entering a slump and in January he will fail even more. Nobody can be dominating forever.
Btw, TLPD is not that relevant but check the recent preformance of the two players. Stork is 11-6 in Dec and Bisu is 3-6.
we're in a transition period where both leagues are starting up again. Bisu is above Stork right now because Stork blew his load in the semifinal yet again. Stork's abysmal play towards the end of the month puts him below Bisu, who placed top 3 in both leagues, but above everyone else. Third place on the power rank isn't bad and some people are acting like being third after Bisu is the same as being tenth after nine people.
Bisu's PvP and PvT are still excellent. Stork's are certainly better, but his PvZ is at a level that hinders him in a big way. Any strong Zerg in a Starleague and Stork is probably done, that's a massive handicap. Bisu is more likely to win PvT and PvP series than Stork is to win a PvZ series, and Bisu's likeliness to win a PvZ series trumps anything Stork can do.
You people need to remember that Bisu's PvT and PvP are THE BEST AFTER STORK, and Stork's PvZ is one of the worst in ProGaming.
On January 03 2008 12:28 TheTyranid wrote: So its OSL finals/Survivor fail vs stellar Proleague preformance/3-0 raping of Bisu. I will agree that the first outweighs the secong but the bottom line is that Stork is in better shape than Bisu despite those losses. Bisu is entering a slump and in January he will fail even more. Nobody can be dominating forever.
Btw, TLPD is not that relevant but check the recent preformance of the two players. Stork is 11-6 in Dec and Bisu is 3-6.
we're in a transition period where both leagues are starting up again. Bisu is above Stork right now because Stork blew his load in the semifinal yet again. Stork's abysmal play towards the end of the month puts him below Bisu, who placed top 3 in both leagues, but above everyone else. Third place on the power rank isn't bad and some people are acting like being third after Bisu is the same as being tenth after nine people.
Bisu's PvP and PvT are still excellent. Stork's are certainly better, but his PvZ is at a level that hinders him in a big way. Any strong Zerg in a Starleague and Stork is probably done, that's a massive handicap. Bisu is more likely to win PvT and PvP series than Stork is to win a PvZ series, and Bisu's likeliness to win a PvZ series trumps anything Stork can do.
You people need to remember that Bisu's PvT and PvP are THE BEST AFTER STORK, and Stork's PvZ is one of the worst in ProGaming.
I'd just like to emphasize this, as in the OSL 3rd Place match thread I had a hard time convincing some chobos that UpMagiC taking two games off of Bisu in a bo5 was quite a feat.
That was a feat, if you saw how exhausted UpMagic was (moreso than usual!) when he played Sea, you understand the preparation he put into his series against Bisu.
On January 03 2008 12:28 TheTyranid wrote: So its OSL finals/Survivor fail vs stellar Proleague preformance/3-0 raping of Bisu. I will agree that the first outweighs the secong but the bottom line is that Stork is in better shape than Bisu despite those losses. Bisu is entering a slump and in January he will fail even more. Nobody can be dominating forever.
Btw, TLPD is not that relevant but check the recent preformance of the two players. Stork is 11-6 in Dec and Bisu is 3-6.
we're in a transition period where both leagues are starting up again. Bisu is above Stork right now because Stork blew his load in the semifinal yet again. Stork's abysmal play towards the end of the month puts him below Bisu, who placed top 3 in both leagues, but above everyone else. Third place on the power rank isn't bad and some people are acting like being third after Bisu is the same as being tenth after nine people.
Bisu's PvP and PvT are still excellent. Stork's are certainly better, but his PvZ is at a level that hinders him in a big way. Any strong Zerg in a Starleague and Stork is probably done, that's a massive handicap. Bisu is more likely to win PvT and PvP series than Stork is to win a PvZ series, and Bisu's likeliness to win a PvZ series trumps anything Stork can do.
You people need to remember that Bisu's PvT and PvP are THE BEST AFTER STORK, and Stork's PvZ is one of the worst in ProGaming.
Isn't Bisu 56% pvp and PvT this year? How is that THE BEST AFTER STORK?
lol @ FS's deft picking apart of criticisms... I think the Power Rank is really spot on. It IS tough to call when some players aren't playing that much.. Except... that Much.... har har har sorry.
Hm. The fact that Bisu was apparently ill for some of this month is worth noting when we go a-speculatin on his chances of 'slumping'. It doesn't' change the fact that Jaedong was clearly the top player though, it merely implies the fight for the top slot between Stork/Bisu/Jaedong isn't nearly as clear-cut as those statements imply. (which is only a good thing, as far as I am concerned.)
Also Stevestevesteve, Promise me you'll do a "RUUUUUUBYYYY ^_____^" when he manages to earn a place on the power rank. Please.
On January 03 2008 12:28 TheTyranid wrote: So its OSL finals/Survivor fail vs stellar Proleague preformance/3-0 raping of Bisu. I will agree that the first outweighs the secong but the bottom line is that Stork is in better shape than Bisu despite those losses. Bisu is entering a slump and in January he will fail even more. Nobody can be dominating forever.
Btw, TLPD is not that relevant but check the recent preformance of the two players. Stork is 11-6 in Dec and Bisu is 3-6.
we're in a transition period where both leagues are starting up again. Bisu is above Stork right now because Stork blew his load in the semifinal yet again. Stork's abysmal play towards the end of the month puts him below Bisu, who placed top 3 in both leagues, but above everyone else. Third place on the power rank isn't bad and some people are acting like being third after Bisu is the same as being tenth after nine people.
Bisu's PvP and PvT are still excellent. Stork's are certainly better, but his PvZ is at a level that hinders him in a big way. Any strong Zerg in a Starleague and Stork is probably done, that's a massive handicap. Bisu is more likely to win PvT and PvP series than Stork is to win a PvZ series, and Bisu's likeliness to win a PvZ series trumps anything Stork can do.
You people need to remember that Bisu's PvT and PvP are THE BEST AFTER STORK, and Stork's PvZ is one of the worst in ProGaming.
Isn't Bisu 56% pvp and PvT this year? How is that THE BEST AFTER STORK?
Please look past hard statistics. Bisu has a lot of losses because he is prone to do wierd things in ProLeague that don't work. In more important games his PvT play is excellent; sometimes he pulls out wins that look utterly impossible a moment before (IE, his series against Hwasin this past MSL).
PvP... PvP is so build-order intensive at times that its hard to judge a player's abilities by his winrate. In fact, it's hard to judge a player in any manner by his PvP, unless you have personally seen so many games that you can get an idea of it. I will concede that Bisu's PvP is somewhat on-and-off, but EVERY Protoss' PvP is on-and-off. Stork, certainly less so, but Stork's PvZ is permanently set to 'off'.
On January 03 2008 13:59 fusionsdf wrote: What the hell?
someone explain how light, who has done practically nothing worthwhile this month snuck onto the power rank.
lame.
he was on there last month for playing well in the early stages of MSL and OSL, and since there's not really anything to work with this month I just moved the people who needed to move, and Light ended up in spot 9. Seems fine to me, I can't just drop a strong player because he hasnt been getting proleague games for one month. If Light fails to do anything in the upcoming OSL/MSL seasons, then he'll get the boot.
You can't keep hammering Stork's PvZ and continue to shine on Jaedong's ZvP. Either Stork has respectable PvZ (in which you can still maintain that Bisu is #2 ahead of Stork, since I'd agree that they're about even on PvP, maybe Bisu slight edge, Stork maybe slight edge on PvT, but Bisu's demonstrated superiority at PvZ trumps both of those) or Jaedong's ZvP isn't that impressive after all if Stork's PvZ is "one of the worst in ProGaming", as you so boldly state, in which case either of the Protosses deserve the top spot.
On January 03 2008 13:59 fusionsdf wrote: What the hell?
someone explain how light, who has done practically nothing worthwhile this month snuck onto the power rank.
lame.
he was on there last month for playing well in the early stages of MSL and OSL, and since there's not really anything to work with this month I just moved the people who needed to move, and Light ended up in spot 9. Seems fine to me, I can't just drop a strong player because he hasnt been getting proleague games for one month. If Light fails to do anything in the upcoming OSL/MSL seasons, then he'll get the boot.
yeah, but you have players like light and much who barely win half their games on the list, and anytime and luxury and other players hovering around 60-65% this month dont even make it.
I mean I would understand if light had done something important in the individual leagues this month, but he hasnt.
I mean I know this is controversial, but darkelf has a better record the last two months (3-0 in december) and light got his wins against odin and gorush, not exactly top level players.
815 is 4-1 in december with wins over xellos and sea, kal is 5-2 with a 5 game win streak in december, I mean hell, even chalrenge has a better record in december.
If light isnt doing anything in individual league, and nothing in proleague, I dont see how he should make the list.
Much and sea have at least a bit of an excuse. Light doesnt have any.
I hope Sea wins the MSL and OSL so all the "OMG, you're biased with Sea!" wankers will shut up. If you think he isn't capable of doing just that, you need to watch some more games. That is all.
On January 03 2008 15:04 zer0das wrote: I hope Sea wins the MSL and OSL so all the "OMG, you're biased with Sea!" wankers will shut up. If you think he isn't capable of doing just that, you need to watch some more games. That is all.
no one should be on the power rank for being "capable" of winning an individual league. if that was a case you could add on another 15 or so other names.
what matters is results, both in terms of raw results and results relative to other top gamers that month.
Wow, I almost absolutly agree with this PowerRank. If NaDa can make it against Yellow[ArnC] and SaviOr though, he should definatly come back into the PowerRank again.
On January 03 2008 15:04 zer0das wrote: I hope Sea wins the MSL and OSL so all the "OMG, you're biased with Sea!" wankers will shut up. If you think he isn't capable of doing just that, you need to watch some more games. That is all.
no one should be on the power rank for being "capable" of winning an individual league. if that was a case you could add on another 15 or so other names.
what matters is results, both in terms of raw results and results relative to other top gamers that month.
thanks mo, u covered my opinion on spot. sea is good no doubt, JUST SHOW ME SOMEHTING BESIDES PROLEAGUE AND GETTING KNOCKED OUT OF INDIVIDUAL LEAGUES BEFORE THE Bo3 or Bo5 BATTLES!! has he ever made it to the ro16? ill go check laterr....
On January 03 2008 15:04 zer0das wrote: I hope Sea wins the MSL and OSL so all the "OMG, you're biased with Sea!" wankers will shut up. If you think he isn't capable of doing just that, you need to watch some more games. That is all.
You keep waiting for that to happen now. How long have we been waiting? Sea's never done anything worthwhile in the individual leagues over what, I think its 2 years now?
On January 03 2008 06:13 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: Close but No Cigar:
HWASIN: WAY TO SUCK
UpMagic: UpMagic has done well, but within a 2 week span he played Jaedong, Bisu, and Sea. He got mangled by all three and bounced out of Power Rank. Looks like he kind of did revert back to ol' unreliable UpMagic, but we'll see if he can do it again and with more consistancy in the future.
Anytime: Good job, beat someone other than a nobody once in a while though.
Yarnc/Luxury: Still waiting for these guys to.. you know... DO something. They don't win often enough to place without some OSL/MSL results.
for yarnc/luxury, you say you cant place them without some osl/msl result, but what result does sea have? luxury has been doing just as well as sea with the same results in the osl/msl, (jack shit). why isnt he number 6?
savior is only ranked as high as he is in the power rank because of what he used to be. he's doing poorly in everything at the moment and you want him ranked even higher?
What nonsense is this? Since the MSL final with Bisu, Savior still consistently makes the Ro8 and Ro4 in both leagues, which is more than you can say about just about every other player not named Bisu or Stork in 2007.
I like this pr a lot steve even though it was inevitable that Bisu had to drop to #2 Many of you guys seem to criticize Steve's opinions of being biased and point out evidence such as tlpd stats. You guys have to keep in mind that Steve doesn't just look at stats and rather looks at how strong the players are through their games. Sure he might be a little biased in his PR but it's impossible to not have any bias in these kind of things. I'd say that his PR is dead on except for light but thats just my opinion.
On a side note, everyone seems to be shouting "slump slump!" as soon as Bisu loses to a terran player who won against guys like saviOr and iloveoov. Losing to the world's best pvper isn't exactly the worst thing either even though it was 3-1. Also, Bisu reportedly had a very bad flu during this month that probably affected his gaming a lot. We can't really state whether Bisu is slumping or not until the MSL/OSL starts which will be january 8th (MSL group B). If he continues to play the way he did in this crucial month, then it would be safe to say that he no longer deserves the credit that fakesteve is giving him
On January 03 2008 19:01 nujabes wrote: I like this pr a lot steve even though it was inevitable that Bisu had to drop to #2 Many of you guys seem to criticize Steve's opinions of being biased and point out evidence such as tlpd stats. You guys have to keep in mind that Steve doesn't just look at stats and rather looks at how strong the players are through their games. Sure he might be a little biased in his PR but it's impossible to not have any bias in these kind of things. I'd say that his PR is dead on except for light but thats just my opinion.
yes, and fakesteve is the only person who watches VODs.
Great job Steve! I more or less agree with your ranking. Well done. And you don't have to defend your PR from various people who think otherwise, your reasoning is perfectly clear as it is.
On January 03 2008 19:01 nujabes wrote: I like this pr a lot steve even though it was inevitable that Bisu had to drop to #2 Many of you guys seem to criticize Steve's opinions of being biased and point out evidence such as tlpd stats. You guys have to keep in mind that Steve doesn't just look at stats and rather looks at how strong the players are through their games. Sure he might be a little biased in his PR but it's impossible to not have any bias in these kind of things. I'd say that his PR is dead on except for light but thats just my opinion.
yes, and fakesteve is the only person who watches VODs.
Thanks for being an ass about what I say. You can tell just from the past comments here that most of the people don't watch the vods of all the players here and base their arguments on things like TLPD. I never said that other people don't watch VODs but that FakeSteve bases his points on things other than stats. I'm not saying that he is 100% true and that his PR is undisputable, after all thats what the comment section is for. However, his knowledge of the game is a lot more indepth and better than a majority of the people.
On January 03 2008 19:01 nujabes wrote: I like this pr a lot steve even though it was inevitable that Bisu had to drop to #2 Many of you guys seem to criticize Steve's opinions of being biased and point out evidence such as tlpd stats. You guys have to keep in mind that Steve doesn't just look at stats and rather looks at how strong the players are through their games. Sure he might be a little biased in his PR but it's impossible to not have any bias in these kind of things. I'd say that his PR is dead on except for light but thats just my opinion.
yes, and fakesteve is the only person who watches VODs.
Thanks for being an ass about what I say. You can tell just from the past comments here that most of the people don't watch the vods of all the players here and base their arguments on things like TLPD. I never said that other people don't watch VODs but that FakeSteve bases his points on things other than stats. I'm not saying that he is 100% true and that his PR is undisputable, after all thats what the comment section is for. However, his knowledge of the game is a lot more indepth and better than a majority of the people.
i just reread the thread and i hardly see any comments that are based solely on TLPD arguments. rather, most of the comments in this thread have had pretty solid evidence to back up their claims. it's pretty outrageous of you to come out of nowhere and claim that the majority of people here don't watch VODs and aren't knowledgeable about progaming.
On January 03 2008 15:04 zer0das wrote: I hope Sea wins the MSL and OSL so all the "OMG, you're biased with Sea!" wankers will shut up. If you think he isn't capable of doing just that, you need to watch some more games. That is all.
You keep waiting for that to happen now. How long have we been waiting? Sea's never done anything worthwhile in the individual leagues over what, I think its 2 years now?
Hey , Zerodas, fuck you
Why do you feel Sea is such a strong canidate for such a feat, when no other player in modern bw has been able to do so? Despite him preforming horribly in individual leagues up until now.
Overall though I pretty much completely agree with the power rank.
savior is only ranked as high as he is in the power rank because of what he used to be. he's doing poorly in everything at the moment and you want him ranked even higher?
What nonsense is this? Since the MSL final with Bisu, Savior still consistently makes the Ro8 and Ro4 in both leagues, which is more than you can say about just about every other player not named Bisu or Stork in 2007.
I expect Bisu and Stork to continue reaching Ro8s for a long time (not qualifying for MSL seems like an aberration for Stork more than anything). Watching Savior play ZvT is downright painful and at the rate he's going I expect him to start getting knocked out earlier unless he does something to fix his game play.
On January 03 2008 19:01 nujabes wrote: I like this pr a lot steve even though it was inevitable that Bisu had to drop to #2 Many of you guys seem to criticize Steve's opinions of being biased and point out evidence such as tlpd stats. You guys have to keep in mind that Steve doesn't just look at stats and rather looks at how strong the players are through their games. Sure he might be a little biased in his PR but it's impossible to not have any bias in these kind of things. I'd say that his PR is dead on except for light but thats just my opinion.
yes, and fakesteve is the only person who watches VODs.
Thanks for being an ass about what I say. You can tell just from the past comments here that most of the people don't watch the vods of all the players here and base their arguments on things like TLPD. I never said that other people don't watch VODs but that FakeSteve bases his points on things other than stats. I'm not saying that he is 100% true and that his PR is undisputable, after all thats what the comment section is for. However, his knowledge of the game is a lot more indepth and better than a majority of the people.
Oh yes, Steve is a god when it comes to bw knowledge. Unless he has to actually play the game
Fakesteve, you said that Stork has one of the worst PvZ in progaming. But you put JD #1 because he raped Stork in OSL. I want to say only WTF?? Yes JD won an OSL, which is huge BUT he was not in MSL. Bisu has medals in both starleagues, he still deserve #1 spot.
On January 03 2008 23:16 Hyperionnn wrote: Fakesteve, you said that Stork has one of the worst PvZ in progaming. But you put JD #1 because he raped Stork in OSL. I want to say only WTF?? Yes JD won an OSL, which is huge BUT he was not in MSL. Bisu has medals in both starleagues, he still deserve #1 spot.
Stork's PvZ isn't that bad.
And LJD looked great in the final two games, as good as Savior does against Stork.
Yeah, don't trip, Steve. Unless it's fun for you to argue this stuff, hehe..
People.. what he's doing is looking at how strong of a player they are right now. Medals and shit don't matter.
The fact of the matter is... Jaedong is incredibly good in 2 MUs and now he's solid in the third. He's not #1 in the Power Rank because he beat Stork, he's #1 in the power rank because HE PLAYED REALLY WELL when he happened to be beating Stork. He also recently beat Free who has one of the better PvZs in the game after Bisu so it wasn't just a matter of Stork being a fluke.
Bisu is #2 because he's had some bad breaks but is still PLAYING REALLY WELL. He's still the second most solid player in the game.
Stork is #3 because... well you get the fucking idea. (although Stork's PvZ isn't that bad I don't think)
All the way down the line he's got it down really well as far as ranking how well players have been playing lately, which is kindof the point of PR if I understand it.
Nice Steve, I'm really glad you decided to put Jaedong first over Bisu. Top seven look right to me, and I don't follow proleague or the minor leagues enough to comment below that.
but yeah, i guess we will all see today how sea's odt will go.. probably sea and light will make it out, but who knowS? oh well, good job on the rankings. at least we have something to argue over since. better than nothing ><
These power ranks are becoming more and more, a reason to ridicule each other's opinions (including the OP) about who is best since there is no dominant player anymore... still Sea @ 6th must require a rather imaginative argument
Savior has looked pretty crappy in his latest proleague games, except the game vs. Hwasin which was pretty nice. However he lost 3-2 to MSL champion mind (Bisu lost 3-1) and he lost 2-1 to Bisu in OSL. These are nothing to scoff at. Savior has continued to consistently shown strong performances in both leagues every season. His proleague hasn't been so great this year but reading some replies in this thread you don't seem to regard proleague that much (and Bisu's proleague isn't so good either).
I'd still be more confident in Savior advancing further or winning leagues more than Sea or Much. Mind has a real lot to prove and isn't in the OSL and Stork has consistenly shown he ultimately fails in every league; only Jaedong and Bisu I'd have more confidence in and Bisu looks like he is definitely faltering so we'll see how next season goes. Sea and Much both seem to either fail or choke in leagues. Savior has failed lately but at least has shown in the past he is capable of winning and doesn't choke.
You're very right that Savior making it out of ODT will say a real lot because it's a hard group and will show if he really has what it takes to still win when it matters (and if his ZvT isn't completely crap now). Although he hasn't won anything for two MSL/OSL seasons he's still one of the only players to consistently advance far in both leagues. My point is if Savior advances to OSL I still think he has a better shot to win either league than almost anyone else. If he fails well I'd have to say maybe it really is pretty much the complete end of his reign. Although he could be like Nada and win an OSL or MSL randomely sometime in the future.
Oh well, I can't find much fault in the power rank. What's up with the "lol @ sea and much" comments? So dumb to just make a comment like that, even I think Savior should be as low as he is, he isn't looking that good in the past month and this is a monthly ranking.
On January 03 2008 12:28 TheTyranid wrote: So its OSL finals/Survivor fail vs stellar Proleague preformance/3-0 raping of Bisu. I will agree that the first outweighs the secong but the bottom line is that Stork is in better shape than Bisu despite those losses. Bisu is entering a slump and in January he will fail even more. Nobody can be dominating forever.
Btw, TLPD is not that relevant but check the recent preformance of the two players. Stork is 11-6 in Dec and Bisu is 3-6.
we're in a transition period where both leagues are starting up again. Bisu is above Stork right now because Stork blew his load in the semifinal yet again. Stork's abysmal play towards the end of the month puts him below Bisu, who placed top 3 in both leagues, but above everyone else. Third place on the power rank isn't bad and some people are acting like being third after Bisu is the same as being tenth after nine people.
Bisu's PvP and PvT are still excellent. Stork's are certainly better, but his PvZ is at a level that hinders him in a big way. Any strong Zerg in a Starleague and Stork is probably done, that's a massive handicap. Bisu is more likely to win PvT and PvP series than Stork is to win a PvZ series, and Bisu's likeliness to win a PvZ series trumps anything Stork can do.
You people need to remember that Bisu's PvT and PvP are THE BEST AFTER STORK, and Stork's PvZ is one of the worst in ProGaming.
Isn't Bisu 56% pvp and PvT this year? How is that THE BEST AFTER STORK?
Please look past hard statistics. Bisu has a lot of losses because he is prone to do wierd things in ProLeague that don't work. In more important games his PvT play is excellent; sometimes he pulls out wins that look utterly impossible a moment before (IE, his series against Hwasin this past MSL).
PvP... PvP is so build-order intensive at times that its hard to judge a player's abilities by his winrate. In fact, it's hard to judge a player in any manner by his PvP, unless you have personally seen so many games that you can get an idea of it. I will concede that Bisu's PvP is somewhat on-and-off, but EVERY Protoss' PvP is on-and-off. Stork, certainly less so, but Stork's PvZ is permanently set to 'off'.
You mean like how he choked against Stork and Mind in the Starleagues? You can't base everything on the starleagues, you need to take overall performance into account, which includes proleagues.
This is very well done Steve. Most of the posters complaining about the ranking don't really know what they are talking about.
Jaedong: OSL Champ, and he looked good doing it. OSL is the more prestigious league (if you disagree you haven't been around long enough to know) so giving the OSL more weight in the ranking makes sense.
Here's a little tip for Power Rank weight: OSL > MSL > OSC/ODT > Survivor > Proleague > Other See how low proleague is! Don't use it as a basis for your arguement.
Bisu: Got really deep into both leagues. At the point you can only lose to champion caliber players anyway, Between fighting to keep an OSL seed and runner up in the MSL last month, there is no hard evidence yet that Bisu won't be able to continue such performances.
Stork: Never able to close the deal when he needs to; always a runner up. Sure he beat Bisu, but he didn't even manage to qualify for MSL, and a top player can't be doing things like that. Proleague is the least weighted of the professional events, it always has been. In the eyes of the fans this is true also.
(aside on Proleague) Fans recognize the individual league heroes much more than the heroes in the proleague (unless they are also individual league heroes). For instance: when fans voted which players to represent each race in Superfight 5, they voted for the indivudual league players, not the best proleague performers. Even here on team liquid, people are citing losses to certain "no-name" players like Hiya and Haran. These players are doing well in proleague, they are not "no-names" like others in this thread might have you believe. Doing well in proleague just happens to be their only accomplishment. Proleague doesn't matter all that much in terms of power in the eyes of most fans. It doesn't matter as much as Individual leagues and their qualifying tournaments in terms of weight on the power rank. The very best in proleague might barely make the tenth spot in a slow month of individual performers. Proleague importance on the power rank is minimal. It's always been that way. Deal with it! (end aside)
Mind: Not a whole lot of action, what he did in the Proleague isn't spectacular, but it isn't shit either. It shows at least that his win wasn't a complete fluke. He moves up mostly because no one else deserves to be as high.
Much: He won the OSC. He passed tough players to get there and secured the fourth seed in the next OSL. Anyone who got to the finals of an individual league is above him, no one else is and no one else should be at this point. Much has been doing well.
Sea: I see no bias in this position. (I don't even like Sea, but that doesn't really matter). Sea got second in the OSC, losing to Much. That's pretty damn good. He qualified for MSL. He's winning and looking good while doing it. There isn't another player below him whose recent power surpasses Sea. Instead of complaining "OMG Sea!... BIAS!!!" How about suggesting a player that belong there instead. Try to answer this: What have the players below Sea been doing to merit putting them here instead? Nothing. Sea has been doing it better. You didn't successfully bring up any valid arguements that last month and you won't be able to do that this month either.
Savior: Savior hasn't been looking so great. He hasn't had many chances to show that he can still perform, but the few chances he has gotten have looked pretty bad. In the coming month Savior may prove himself again, and then he can move up. But for now he doesn't belong on the top half of the ranking.
Flash: Qualified for the MSL and has been getting into the leagues each season. He has also been looking much better in his wins recently.
Light: Hasn't shown much, but there is no evidence to just kick him out unless all other players can show that they look better than he has recently, which they haven't.
Xellos: Deserving, got a ways into the OSC before falling out and just got done with a top four in the last MSL. Additionally he has been looking stronger as of late.
The only choice I would have different than Steve would be to switch Light and Xellos.
On January 04 2008 09:27 fusionsdf wrote: if winning osc is so great for power rank, then rock should have been way higher up in the last months
But back when Rock won the MSL was still going on. The leagues are a little more separated this time around.
edit: plus Rock literally had nothing else to boast at the time, the wins were sloppy and if you recall most of the games it looks like he was winning by accident. Both Sea and Much are also getting things done elsewhere.
On January 04 2008 10:03 fusionsdf wrote: yes, but light isnt
besides, to have players like anytime not even make 10th spot anytime in the last 3 months is stupid.
sea made powerrank even before the finals of osc
Anytime has been in the #10 spot within the last three months. Players like Light and Sea have managed to do more than him as Anytime didn't even get to the ODT.
The very good players don't always have to qualify for both leagues, but they at least should be getting to Survivor/Dual to have a shot at it each season. And the best players are the ones you expect to make both leagues under almost any circumstances.
only thing i would change is savior above sea. i mean, bisu's proleague record is 1-4, his one win coming from hero. but we never deny he is stilll going to be a stable player in the individual leagues. savior is 3-11 in proleague, bout the same % as bisu, but we constantly discredit him for doing horrible when he is always advancing in both leagues far as the ro4. if sea manages to do wlel this coming season in the individual leagues, than i am all up for having him place higher, but until than, like semi said, osl > msl > osc/odt > survivor > Proleague, and savior has done much more in recent osl and msl than sea has done ever in his whole career.
GI, I think you mixed it up. Stork has a slightly better PvP and PvT than Bisu. Bisu's PvZ though is wayyy better than Stork's. Stork's PvP is pretty godly, actually.
On January 03 2008 14:24 GrandInquisitor wrote: You can't keep hammering Stork's PvZ and continue to shine on Jaedong's ZvP. Either Stork has respectable PvZ (in which you can still maintain that Bisu is #2 ahead of Stork, since I'd agree that they're about even on PvP, maybe Bisu slight edge, Stork maybe slight edge on PvT, but Bisu's demonstrated superiority at PvZ trumps both of those) or Jaedong's ZvP isn't that impressive after all if Stork's PvZ is "one of the worst in ProGaming", as you so boldly state, in which case either of the Protosses deserve the top spot.
you don't watch progaming?
jaedong looked fucking good against Stork and Stork looked like a retard. why do you post here if you don't watch games and don't understand basic concepts about player skill?
unrealistic PR.. those ups and downs are unrealistic. But it's not important, Savior will rape Sea, Much and Stork every time he'll play with them. Only that is important, real strenght of some player, not unrealistic wishes of some ppl.
Mine and Steve's boys gettin' it done. =) I like Sea a lot too, I'm glad he beat Midas actually. Rock is still laaaaaaaame. And Savior is in both leagues for the 4th time in a row. When people think someone who just made both leagues for the the 4th time in a row is slumping that says something about the player.
i mean, Savior can't be no7 in any way, FakeSteve can write new manifesto and he will be wrong with Savior at no7. I mean, Light is still in top10. Joke or what? Light has so many credits and Savior who is top3 players last few years has no credits.. Light was 2:2 in december and still top10. Unrealistic... If Savior was 2:2 in December then he would lost top10 if you ask FakeSteve.. Such a great player can't be judged after presentation in one month, specially he played only 3 games. Unrealistic LOL ROFL and so on..
Which is why it's the Power Ranking for that month, isn't it? It's not like the January PR is rating Savior's performance in general; it's just there to tell us that his performance for December-January was bad compared to the previous month where he came in at #2. Being a Savior fan myself, I can't say that his place in the PR for this month is entirely wrong; he _did_ lose to FBH TWICE. Like the PR says, December-January was a bad month for Savior.
So simply put, monthly PR != lifetime/all-time PR. It just means that Savior isn't performing up to his standard, is all.
OT: Inter.Mind giving FBH the thumb down = priceless
i know it is for one month but he can't be no7 if he played only 3 games in proleague... If you judge by that then he is not even in top10... But every month has some credits from last one.. And everything is clear when we see Light in top10, he can't deserve it..
By FakeSteve this could look like tihs if Jaedong in Jan will play only 3 proleague games: 7. Jaedong ...
I can't believe people are arguing for Bisu to be lower than 2, that's just ridiculious. I see why you get upset when people criticize your Sea selections.
Good rank hope to see Bisu back at number 1 next month, as well as Savior being higher.
Sea is by far the most impressive player as of late. All those games he played... as soon as I was finaly able to somehow pick up my mouth from the floor- it dropped right back down again, I mean HOLY S**T amazing stuff, top notch quality, extreme fun to watch every single move, the kid is on fire, right now his game is the stuff of genius legends. He should freaking win dual title this season :-) I hope the pressure of two starleagues won't get to him! He always had what it takes, but right now he is perfect, just play your game Sea, you'll get yours! and it really is yours! ALL of it! Just take it!!!
On January 04 2008 23:03 Metallingus wrote: So simply put, monthly PR != lifetime/all-time PR. It just means that Savior isn't performing up to his standard, is all.
After trying to figure out how the monthly power rank really works this seems to be the most logical explanation.
I got 100 different answers depending on what player we talked about the last power rank so I think it's safe to say that the "rising/falling" factor has a bigger impact on Steves decision than we all think. Sea is rising since he was average before and are doing good right now (even though Sea is on the list every single time for different reasons. Sometimes proleague records, sometimes even just potential to finally qualify for a league). Savior was god, but it isn't god anymore. And since the "you are biased towards Sea" argument gets countered with "haven't you seen the games?" the only reasonable explanation is that players are ranked very invididually and shouldn't be compared to who's above or below him. I mean the evidence is right there. Someone earlier wrote that Savior has qualified for both leagues 4 seasons in a row while Sea still struggled in qualifiers til now. You can twist around all you want, but there's just no question who's the better player.
All discussions here eventually ends with opinions and taste. "I see his brilliance and you do not" which is why I gave up on understanding. Some defend this list to death, but in the end it's just a personal ranking from someone with favorite players like everybody else and with more than average knowledge about the starcraft leagues.
On January 05 2008 03:38 Gerpu wrote: 10 ppl should do PR, then it would make sence and then it would be closer to real situation
Why? It's fine as it is, and is an accurate reflection of who's where in the upper echelons of progaming.
For those who say that Stork's PvZ sucks, sure when contrasted with 64.04% PvT and 68.12% PvP it seems horrendous having only a PvZ of 50%. In my opinion taking it from statistics is flawed because Stork, seeing as he's usually in the later stages of the leagues, always ends up facing the really good Zerg players. From the beginning of GomTVMSL3, his PvZ losses have been to sAviOr (ZvP rapist), GGPlay (+ Show Spoiler +
a bit dodgy but he can be really fucking good at times, beating Bisu recently in that Grand Prix thing in a long game. Maybe Bisu didn't play his usual style, but he's still Bisu
), Luxury (this loss is a bit suspect, bad scouting led him to getting run over by mass speedling), and then the 3-1 loss to Jaedong.
Yes, his PvZ needs work, but it's not shit, it's just not up to the caliber of the Zerg's he ends up meeting in the individual leagues (although the loss to GGPlay was in Proleague, where Stork is known to be really strong).
After yesterday's games I am certain that Yellow[arnc] should be above Light. If only their ODT groups were played in December, then Light would certainly get the boot from the PR. The bottom ranks should look like this.
Yarnc has always been really good, and Luxury maybe even better, but Steve knows exactly what he's talking about, they've never been able to show anything yet. We'll see what happens.
On January 05 2008 08:21 boghat wrote: Yarnc has always been really good, and Luxury maybe even better, but Steve knows exactly what he's talking about, they've never been able to show anything yet. We'll see what happens.
Yesterday's games (where Yarnc advanced from his group, and Light got 0-2'ed from his) would be very decisive in fighuring out the bottom spots. Now if they were played before this PR was made, then Yarnc would get 9'th or 10'th spot and Light would be out.
i was surprised because yarnc and anytime have been pretty dominant and hiya and 815 havent been bad either in the proleague
if you saw 815 vs sea, despite it being on blue storm, the zvt happy map, sea couldn't do anything as 815 raped him with cracklings and no ultras despite having 4 secure gases
On January 05 2008 08:21 boghat wrote: Yarnc has always been really good, and Luxury maybe even better, but Steve knows exactly what he's talking about, they've never been able to show anything yet. We'll see what happens.
Yesterday's games (where Yarnc advanced from his group, and Light got 0-2'ed from his) would be very decisive in fighuring out the bottom spots. Now if they were played before this PR was made, then Yarnc would get 9'th or 10'th spot and Light would be out.
That's entirely true
A lot of Power Rank decision-making is based on a player's momentum and how strong they look compared to their competition during the month's games. December was a very quiet month for a lot of players so its hard to move certain guys around. I basically have to decide who has impressed me enough to move ahead of them and then move them down accordingly. Light stayed on the list because his December wasn't enough to guage any real fluctuations his current strength, and there weren't any other candidates that deserved the spot more. At the beginning of February the rank will obviously change according to who's playing well and who's losing their shit.
Oh, right. I was watching his December games earlier and I didn't watch his ODT group. He 2-0'd it though, and I'd bet he could do that playing any which way.
Well, the first game luxury fucking 4 pooled him and lux played the other game like shit too. But won vs Shudder is what it seems it could be the worst game of 2008 already. Getting past his ODT group is not an accomplishment when shitty players and cheeses the only real contender, UpMagic.
Luxury has been showing some fairly notable play (i use those words loosly) but Flash pulled off his little bitch plays when Ups TvT is dominating. That game made me want to slap Flash in his baby face.
Last night reminded me of something: surprised Kal didn't even make close but no cigar. He qualified for MSL and looks like he fixed his PvP (!?!?! where did that one come from :> ) of all things.
On January 06 2008 08:54 zer0das wrote: Last night reminded me of something: surprised Kal didn't even make close but no cigar. He qualified for MSL and looks like he fixed his PvP (!?!?! where did that one come from :> ) of all things.
i think its cuz fakesteve hates kal alot ^^; but besides that, yeah, i thought kal would be in here on the close but no cigars. he has been tearing it up as of late, but we shall see coming into next month if he can keep that going, or it is just a fluke. i just cant believe rock made it out of his group..... i was shockkkkkked... BUT WE SHALL SEE JAEDONG VS BISU VERY SOOOn.... have your fingers crossed for jaedong to dethrone that mofo^^;
Oh, right. I was watching his December games earlier and I didn't watch his ODT group. He 2-0'd it though, and I'd bet he could do that playing any which way.
Well, the first game luxury fucking 4 pooled him and lux played the other game like shit too. But won vs Shudder is what it seems it could be the worst game of 2008 already. Getting past his ODT group is not an accomplishment when shitty players and cheeses the only real contender, UpMagic.
Luxury has been showing some fairly notable play (i use those words loosly) but Flash pulled off his little bitch plays when Ups TvT is dominating. That game made me want to slap Flash in his baby face.
oh please, stop hating flash. upmagic is known for his non-standard (aka cheese?) play. if upmagic had done the same thing would you have said "Luxury has been showing some fairly notable play (i use those words loosly) but Upmagic pulled off his little bitch plays when Flash's TvT is dominating. That game made me want to slap Upmagic in his baby face." ?
On January 03 2008 12:28 TheTyranid wrote: So its OSL finals/Survivor fail vs stellar Proleague preformance/3-0 raping of Bisu. I will agree that the first outweighs the secong but the bottom line is that Stork is in better shape than Bisu despite those losses. Bisu is entering a slump and in January he will fail even more. Nobody can be dominating forever.
Btw, TLPD is not that relevant but check the recent preformance of the two players. Stork is 11-6 in Dec and Bisu is 3-6.
we're in a transition period where both leagues are starting up again. Bisu is above Stork right now because Stork blew his load in the semifinal yet again. Stork's abysmal play towards the end of the month puts him below Bisu, who placed top 3 in both leagues, but above everyone else. Third place on the power rank isn't bad and some people are acting like being third after Bisu is the same as being tenth after nine people.
Bisu's PvP and PvT are still excellent. Stork's are certainly better, but his PvZ is at a level that hinders him in a big way. Any strong Zerg in a Starleague and Stork is probably done, that's a massive handicap. Bisu is more likely to win PvT and PvP series than Stork is to win a PvZ series, and Bisu's likeliness to win a PvZ series trumps anything Stork can do.
You people need to remember that Bisu's PvT and PvP are THE BEST AFTER STORK, and Stork's PvZ is one of the worst in ProGaming.
Nice reasoning Steve, you really nailed it! Idiot.
Oh, right. I was watching his December games earlier and I didn't watch his ODT group. He 2-0'd it though, and I'd bet he could do that playing any which way.
Well, the first game luxury fucking 4 pooled him and lux played the other game like shit too. But won vs Shudder is what it seems it could be the worst game of 2008 already. Getting past his ODT group is not an accomplishment when shitty players and cheeses the only real contender, UpMagic.
Luxury has been showing some fairly notable play (i use those words loosly) but Flash pulled off his little bitch plays when Ups TvT is dominating. That game made me want to slap Flash in his baby face.
oh please, stop hating flash. upmagic is known for his non-standard (aka cheese?) play. if upmagic had done the same thing would you have said "Luxury has been showing some fairly notable play (i use those words loosly) but Upmagic pulled off his little bitch plays when Flash's TvT is dominating. That game made me want to slap Upmagic in his baby face." ?
The reason why people hate Flash is because he beat Bisu in the OSL. His builds were brilliant although many people fail to acknowlege that calling it "cheesy" due to their bias toward Bisu. I like both of these players. Flash, and Up are in the same category as Boxer and Casy (although Up's TvZ is utter crap unfortunately). They are the polar opposite of the hated generic macro terran so many of which have sprouted recently.
Oh, right. I was watching his December games earlier and I didn't watch his ODT group. He 2-0'd it though, and I'd bet he could do that playing any which way.
Well, the first game luxury fucking 4 pooled him and lux played the other game like shit too. But won vs Shudder is what it seems it could be the worst game of 2008 already. Getting past his ODT group is not an accomplishment when shitty players and cheeses the only real contender, UpMagic.
Luxury has been showing some fairly notable play (i use those words loosly) but Flash pulled off his little bitch plays when Ups TvT is dominating. That game made me want to slap Flash in his baby face.
oh please, stop hating flash. upmagic is known for his non-standard (aka cheese?) play. if upmagic had done the same thing would you have said "Luxury has been showing some fairly notable play (i use those words loosly) but Upmagic pulled off his little bitch plays when Flash's TvT is dominating. That game made me want to slap Upmagic in his baby face." ?
there is a difference between non-standard and cheese
Dunno if I should post this here but I think there should be two forms of ranking, like one where the fakesteve makes one, and one that is made up of a voting consensus from the tl community. And we could put them head to head for comparison. Would be great.
On January 08 2008 07:12 ._. wrote: Dunno if I should post this here but I think there should be two forms of ranking, like one where the fakesteve makes one, and one that is made up of a voting consensus from the tl community. And we could put them head to head for comparison. Would be great.
People would just vote for their favorite players every time.
And most people on here probably don't even watch that many VODs. It sounds nice at first but it would just be a waste of people's time and effort to make a list that's meaningless.
Oh, right. I was watching his December games earlier and I didn't watch his ODT group. He 2-0'd it though, and I'd bet he could do that playing any which way.
Well, the first game luxury fucking 4 pooled him and lux played the other game like shit too. But won vs Shudder is what it seems it could be the worst game of 2008 already. Getting past his ODT group is not an accomplishment when shitty players and cheeses the only real contender, UpMagic.
Luxury has been showing some fairly notable play (i use those words loosly) but Flash pulled off his little bitch plays when Ups TvT is dominating. That game made me want to slap Flash in his baby face.
oh please, stop hating flash. upmagic is known for his non-standard (aka cheese?) play. if upmagic had done the same thing would you have said "Luxury has been showing some fairly notable play (i use those words loosly) but Upmagic pulled off his little bitch plays when Flash's TvT is dominating. That game made me want to slap Upmagic in his baby face." ?
The reason why people hate Flash is because he beat Bisu in the OSL. His builds were brilliant although many people fail to acknowlege that calling it "cheesy" due to their bias toward Bisu. I like both of these players. Flash, and Up are in the same category as Boxer and Casy (although Up's TvZ is utter crap unfortunately). They are the polar opposite of the hated generic macro terran so many of which have sprouted recently.
No, people hate Flash because he failed to meet the lofty expectations that everyone had of him (he was 11-0 PvT or something at that time?), then rather than playing a straight up games, he cheesed two games in a row in a BO3 OSL match. Brilliant or not (subjective), they were definitely two all-in early game cheese builds (which is different from non-standard/proxy-builds that Boxer or Upmagic would pull). He has since regained some a lot of credit and I don't mind the guy at all.
Proxy 5 rax in your opponents base is fucking awesome. Stylish cheese like that is something I love to see. Just a semi random offhand comment on Flash.
Oh, right. I was watching his December games earlier and I didn't watch his ODT group. He 2-0'd it though, and I'd bet he could do that playing any which way.
Well, the first game luxury fucking 4 pooled him and lux played the other game like shit too. But won vs Shudder is what it seems it could be the worst game of 2008 already. Getting past his ODT group is not an accomplishment when shitty players and cheeses the only real contender, UpMagic.
Luxury has been showing some fairly notable play (i use those words loosly) but Flash pulled off his little bitch plays when Ups TvT is dominating. That game made me want to slap Flash in his baby face.
oh please, stop hating flash. upmagic is known for his non-standard (aka cheese?) play. if upmagic had done the same thing would you have said "Luxury has been showing some fairly notable play (i use those words loosly) but Upmagic pulled off his little bitch plays when Flash's TvT is dominating. That game made me want to slap Upmagic in his baby face." ?
The reason why people hate Flash is because he beat Bisu in the OSL. His builds were brilliant although many people fail to acknowlege that calling it "cheesy" due to their bias toward Bisu. I like both of these players. Flash, and Up are in the same category as Boxer and Casy (although Up's TvZ is utter crap unfortunately). They are the polar opposite of the hated generic macro terran so many of which have sprouted recently.
No, people hate Flash because he failed to meet the lofty expectations that everyone had of him (he was 11-0 PvT or something at that time?), then rather than playing a straight up games, he cheesed two games in a row in a BO3 OSL match. Brilliant or not (subjective), they were definitely two all-in early game cheese builds (which is different from non-standard/proxy-builds that Boxer or Upmagic would pull). He has since regained some a lot of credit and I don't mind the guy at all.
Sure they were. But they were the result of studying Bisu's game play and noticing the weaknesses. Bisu had been using a lot of of quick nexus based pvt builds. Flash simply designed the best build to counter it. This talent is what makes a player successful in indivdual leagues. Its also a talent players like Sea lack. Awesome macro + multitask will only get you so far.
Oh, right. I was watching his December games earlier and I didn't watch his ODT group. He 2-0'd it though, and I'd bet he could do that playing any which way.
Well, the first game luxury fucking 4 pooled him and lux played the other game like shit too. But won vs Shudder is what it seems it could be the worst game of 2008 already. Getting past his ODT group is not an accomplishment when shitty players and cheeses the only real contender, UpMagic.
Luxury has been showing some fairly notable play (i use those words loosly) but Flash pulled off his little bitch plays when Ups TvT is dominating. That game made me want to slap Flash in his baby face.
oh please, stop hating flash. upmagic is known for his non-standard (aka cheese?) play. if upmagic had done the same thing would you have said "Luxury has been showing some fairly notable play (i use those words loosly) but Upmagic pulled off his little bitch plays when Flash's TvT is dominating. That game made me want to slap Upmagic in his baby face." ?
The reason why people hate Flash is because he beat Bisu in the OSL. His builds were brilliant although many people fail to acknowlege that calling it "cheesy" due to their bias toward Bisu. I like both of these players. Flash, and Up are in the same category as Boxer and Casy (although Up's TvZ is utter crap unfortunately). They are the polar opposite of the hated generic macro terran so many of which have sprouted recently.
No, people hate Flash because he failed to meet the lofty expectations that everyone had of him (he was 11-0 PvT or something at that time?), then rather than playing a straight up games, he cheesed two games in a row in a BO3 OSL match. Brilliant or not (subjective), they were definitely two all-in early game cheese builds (which is different from non-standard/proxy-builds that Boxer or Upmagic would pull). He has since regained some a lot of credit and I don't mind the guy at all.
Sure they were. But they were the result of studying Bisu's game play and noticing the weaknesses. Bisu had been using a lot of of quick nexus based pvt builds. Flash simply designed the best build to counter it. This talent is what makes a player successful in indivdual leagues. Its also a talent players like Sea lack. Awesome macro + multitask will only get you so far.
Hmm? Bisu wasn't doing fast nexus builds back then very often. Also, in both of those games it was standard 1gate core builds that are pretty common to all Protoss. There were also no 5rax in-base builds. Maybe you are confusing another series? The reason why Flash's were all-in cheese builds (8/9 rax I believe) is because if they were scouted in time, it's a guaranteed loss for the Terran (forge/cannon up), but unscouted = almost guaranteed victory (both builds hit when exactly the first goon came out). I like watching Upmagic's games because while they're out of the box, he doesn't rely solely on his build-orders to win. He still has to earn his wins, and looks stylish while doing so.
The 5 rax build comment was completely unrelated to Bisu. Was just an offhand comment regarding the Upmagic game. 1 gate core into nexus IS a fast expand build. I really dont need you to explain to me what an all in build is Thanks though. Flash doesn't rely solely on his build orders to win either. He just understands how to compare his odds of winning a straight up game to the odds of winning with a risky build designed to counter his opponent.
I know, but he did rely 100% on BO in both of those games and that's where all that hate came from. It really didn't have much to do with Bisu, but mainly Flash's choice. 1 gate core is pretty standard build. Not necessarily fast expo, could mean fast robo, 2nd gate added later, etc. I personally never really disliked Flash, but cheesing two games in a row in any important series didn't earn any respect either.
On January 08 2008 12:41 teamsolid wrote: I know, but he did in both those two games and that's where all that hate came from. It really didn't have much to do with Bisu, but mainly Flash's choice. 1 gate core is pretty standard build. Not necessarily fast expo, could mean fast robo, 2nd gate added later, etc. I personally never really disliked Flash, but cheesing two games in a row in any important series didn't earn any respect either.
Flash's choice was smart. He knew he was up against a strong clutch player but who was also vulnerable to all-in builds. Flash picked the best strategy and executed it perfectly. His choice was the best he could have made, and there is no shame in making the best/smartest choice. Now if Boxer was up against Bisu and bio rushed him twice people would be like "OMFG, what a brilliant play by Boxer, pure genius, this is why he is the Emperor. . . "etc. The whole "cheesy" Flash thing is actually becoming a negative stereotype. On the contrary, Up has the "stylish and creative" positive stereotype. Flash will recieve more hate than Up due to people's responses to these stereotypes.
My general thoughts on Flash. I know a lot about him because of what he did to my favorite player Bisu. I was pissed when he didn't even beat GGPlay after taking out Bisu. However, I've gained a respect for Flash and like him now. Not many people will take the risks he does in games.
Was he lucky that those builds worked, yes. Did he know there was a fair chance of Bisu quick expanding, yes. Was his micro in those games good, yes (It looked good to me although I don't play at a high level).
He was lucky in the sense that Bisu just missed the scout in both games. On game 1 Flash barely, and I mean BARELY, held his ramp. On game 2 Bisu scouted the other 2 halls. In game 1 Bisu went 1 gate into Nexus. Flash struck while he was adding gates, he killed Bisu's 2 cannons as the warped in. In game 2 Bisu went 1 gate into proxy robo that failed. Not the best choices by Bisu, but Flash executed well.
He plays straight up much more now with the occasional cheese. I like Up two, though his style is not necessarily an "all in." Also, a note on the 5 rax, if he lost that game to Up he would still be in the final match, take that for what it's worth.
In short, I think Flash was overrated when he started out, but now he's underrated. He was knocked out of the MSL by Bisu and the OSL 2-1 of all people (10 health Nexus in game 3). Flash is in both starleagues again, and I believe he'll be a solid contender.
People will still whine about his cheeses and timing pushes, but imo that adds something fun to starcraft as oppossed to multi base macro wars (which are still ok most of the time).
I think when you judge a player like Flash or Up you should think to yourslelf "If Boxer did that would I be impressed or think it was creative). If so, appreciate from a new player.
End rant... Good list Steve, too bad you couldn't predict the future and see Savior dominate his ODT group or he'd be top 5 I'm guessing. There's gonna be a lot of change next month.
Also, if there was a group of people that compiled a power rank without any bias I'd participate because I like the idea. However, Steve is doing a great job like Etter before him.
On January 08 2008 12:41 teamsolid wrote: I know, but he did in both those two games and that's where all that hate came from. It really didn't have much to do with Bisu, but mainly Flash's choice. 1 gate core is pretty standard build. Not necessarily fast expo, could mean fast robo, 2nd gate added later, etc. I personally never really disliked Flash, but cheesing two games in a row in any important series didn't earn any respect either.
Flash's choice was smart. He knew he was up against a strong clutch player but who was also vulnerable to all-in builds. Flash picked the best strategy and executed it perfectly. His choice was the best he could have made, and there is no shame in making the best/smartest choice. Now if Boxer was up against Bisu and bio rushed him twice people would be like "OMFG, what a brilliant play by Boxer, pure genius, this is why he is the Emperor. . . "etc. The whole "cheesy" Flash thing is actually becoming a negative stereotype. On the contrary, Up has the "stylish and creative" positive stereotype. Flash will recieve more hate than Up due to people's responses to these stereotypes.
About Flash, yes it might've been a good choice for him, but it didn't make for any epic or exciting games. No shame, but no respect either.
About Boxer, it's a different story because he has done so many creative builds in the past that weren't all-in, so he now has the reputation of a strategical genius. When he pulls a cheesy all-in bunker rush against a weak Zerg like in a few pro-league games of the past, I just let it slide because it's Boxer. I've never been awed by these games either because they aren't new. However, very few if any, of the plays Boxer is best known for are all-in cheese builds (check Pimpest Plays 2002-2006). Just recently, his build used against Hiya and Ruby is a great example. That is just pure genius and IMO another Pimpest Play.
Oh, right. I was watching his December games earlier and I didn't watch his ODT group. He 2-0'd it though, and I'd bet he could do that playing any which way.
Well, the first game luxury fucking 4 pooled him and lux played the other game like shit too. But won vs Shudder is what it seems it could be the worst game of 2008 already. Getting past his ODT group is not an accomplishment when shitty players and cheeses the only real contender, UpMagic.
Luxury has been showing some fairly notable play (i use those words loosly) but Flash pulled off his little bitch plays when Ups TvT is dominating. That game made me want to slap Flash in his baby face.
oh please, stop hating flash. upmagic is known for his non-standard (aka cheese?) play. if upmagic had done the same thing would you have said "Luxury has been showing some fairly notable play (i use those words loosly) but Upmagic pulled off his little bitch plays when Flash's TvT is dominating. That game made me want to slap Upmagic in his baby face." ?
The reason why people hate Flash is because he beat Bisu in the OSL. His builds were brilliant although many people fail to acknowlege that calling it "cheesy" due to their bias toward Bisu. I like both of these players. Flash, and Up are in the same category as Boxer and Casy (although Up's TvZ is utter crap unfortunately). They are the polar opposite of the hated generic macro terran so many of which have sprouted recently.
No, people hate Flash because he failed to meet the lofty expectations that everyone had of him (he was 11-0 PvT or something at that time?), then rather than playing a straight up games, he cheesed two games in a row in a BO3 OSL match. Brilliant or not (subjective), they were definitely two all-in early game cheese builds (which is different from non-standard/proxy-builds that Boxer or Upmagic would pull). He has since regained some a lot of credit and I don't mind the guy at all.
Sure they were. But they were the result of studying Bisu's game play and noticing the weaknesses. Bisu had been using a lot of of quick nexus based pvt builds. Flash simply designed the best build to counter it. This talent is what makes a player successful in indivdual leagues. Its also a talent players like Sea lack. Awesome macro + multitask will only get you so far.
Sea doesn't play the same way every game. Don't you remember stuff like his hiden proxy 3rax against Nal_rA or his crazy mm/tank rush games on Python?
He does use the same build every game in TvZ though -_-;
On January 08 2008 12:41 teamsolid wrote: I know, but he did in both those two games and that's where all that hate came from. It really didn't have much to do with Bisu, but mainly Flash's choice. 1 gate core is pretty standard build. Not necessarily fast expo, could mean fast robo, 2nd gate added later, etc. I personally never really disliked Flash, but cheesing two games in a row in any important series didn't earn any respect either.
Flash's choice was smart. He knew he was up against a strong clutch player but who was also vulnerable to all-in builds. Flash picked the best strategy and executed it perfectly. His choice was the best he could have made, and there is no shame in making the best/smartest choice. Now if Boxer was up against Bisu and bio rushed him twice people would be like "OMFG, what a brilliant play by Boxer, pure genius, this is why he is the Emperor. . . "etc. The whole "cheesy" Flash thing is actually becoming a negative stereotype. On the contrary, Up has the "stylish and creative" positive stereotype. Flash will recieve more hate than Up due to people's responses to these stereotypes.
About Flash, yes it might've been a good choice for him, but it didn't make for any epic or exciting games. No shame, but no respect either.
About Boxer, it's a different story because he has done so many creative builds in the past that weren't all-in, so he now has the reputation of a strategical genius. When he pulls a cheesy all-in bunker rush against a weak Zerg like in a few pro-league games of the past, I just let it slide because it's Boxer. I've never been awed by these games either because they aren't new. However, very few if any, of the plays Boxer is best known for are all-in cheese builds (check Pimpest Plays 2002-2006). Just recently, his build used against Hiya and Ruby is a great example. That is just pure genius and IMO another Pimpest Play.
True, they were not pretty games but don't stereotype and hate on a player based on 2 games.
Oh, right. I was watching his December games earlier and I didn't watch his ODT group. He 2-0'd it though, and I'd bet he could do that playing any which way.
Well, the first game luxury fucking 4 pooled him and lux played the other game like shit too. But won vs Shudder is what it seems it could be the worst game of 2008 already. Getting past his ODT group is not an accomplishment when shitty players and cheeses the only real contender, UpMagic.
Luxury has been showing some fairly notable play (i use those words loosly) but Flash pulled off his little bitch plays when Ups TvT is dominating. That game made me want to slap Flash in his baby face.
oh please, stop hating flash. upmagic is known for his non-standard (aka cheese?) play. if upmagic had done the same thing would you have said "Luxury has been showing some fairly notable play (i use those words loosly) but Upmagic pulled off his little bitch plays when Flash's TvT is dominating. That game made me want to slap Upmagic in his baby face." ?
The reason why people hate Flash is because he beat Bisu in the OSL. His builds were brilliant although many people fail to acknowlege that calling it "cheesy" due to their bias toward Bisu. I like both of these players. Flash, and Up are in the same category as Boxer and Casy (although Up's TvZ is utter crap unfortunately). They are the polar opposite of the hated generic macro terran so many of which have sprouted recently.
No, people hate Flash because he failed to meet the lofty expectations that everyone had of him (he was 11-0 PvT or something at that time?), then rather than playing a straight up games, he cheesed two games in a row in a BO3 OSL match. Brilliant or not (subjective), they were definitely two all-in early game cheese builds (which is different from non-standard/proxy-builds that Boxer or Upmagic would pull). He has since regained some a lot of credit and I don't mind the guy at all.
Sure they were. But they were the result of studying Bisu's game play and noticing the weaknesses. Bisu had been using a lot of of quick nexus based pvt builds. Flash simply designed the best build to counter it. This talent is what makes a player successful in indivdual leagues. Its also a talent players like Sea lack. Awesome macro + multitask will only get you so far.
Sea doesn't play the same way every game. Don't you remember stuff like his hiden proxy 3rax against Nal_rA or his crazy mm/tank rush games on Python?
He does use the same build every game in TvZ though -_-;
Can't forget the mnm running down Boxers mech defence on 815.
Btw does Sea always go SK Terran in TvZ? I rarely see him with tanks. Someone should go hydra/lurk/plague heavy defilers on him.
On January 08 2008 07:12 ._. wrote: Dunno if I should post this here but I think there should be two forms of ranking, like one where the fakesteve makes one, and one that is made up of a voting consensus from the tl community. And we could put them head to head for comparison. Would be great.
People would just vote for their favorite players every time.
And most people on here probably don't even watch that many VODs. It sounds nice at first but it would just be a waste of people's time and effort to make a list that's meaningless.
What about like the top 1-25 Liquidbetters casting their positions? Surely they should have some individualized insight and watched plenty of vods to get them that far.
On January 09 2008 15:36 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote: Man, Sheis better not be to Jaedong what Bisu is to sAviOr
Haha, I don't think Jaedong will have to worry about meeting Sheis in individual leagues... at least not for a while. Sheis has a monstrous tvz, but his other matchups aren't quite up to par.
On January 08 2008 07:12 ._. wrote: Dunno if I should post this here but I think there should be two forms of ranking, like one where the fakesteve makes one, and one that is made up of a voting consensus from the tl community. And we could put them head to head for comparison. Would be great.
People would just vote for their favorite players every time.
And most people on here probably don't even watch that many VODs. It sounds nice at first but it would just be a waste of people's time and effort to make a list that's meaningless.
What about like the top 1-25 Liquidbetters casting their positions? Surely they should have some individualized insight and watched plenty of vods to get them that far.
You know, liquibet is mostly luck. If you are top 25, that does not necesarily mean that you are knowledgable of progamers, you could just be lucky.
If jaedong gets his ZvP up to pair (or just close) to his ZvT and ZvZ, he's gonna be the next bonjwa, and he's gonna be unstoppable. He's a freaking monster. I think his ZvT is more insane than Savior's was, and his ZvZ is just insane.
On January 08 2008 07:12 ._. wrote: Dunno if I should post this here but I think there should be two forms of ranking, like one where the fakesteve makes one, and one that is made up of a voting consensus from the tl community. And we could put them head to head for comparison. Would be great.
People would just vote for their favorite players every time.
And most people on here probably don't even watch that many VODs. It sounds nice at first but it would just be a waste of people's time and effort to make a list that's meaningless.
What about like the top 1-25 Liquidbetters casting their positions? Surely they should have some individualized insight and watched plenty of vods to get them that far.
You know, liquibet is mostly luck. If you are top 25, that does not necesarily mean that you are knowledgable of progamers, you could just be lucky.
I agree it's mostly luck due to the fact that all progamers fairly equal in skill and there are a huge number of uncalculable variables. However by the end of the season it does demonstrate some solid knowledge of the progaming scene if you place in the top ranks. IE: ~60% liquibet. Whereas randomly guessing should (big SHOULD) give you about 50% of course.
On January 03 2008 06:35 Sunyveil wrote: hmmm I have to disagree with Bisu at no. 2
Yes, he has posted results lately by placing 3rd in the OSL and 2nd in the MSL. No other player made the semis of either of those, and only savior made the Ro8 of both. However, judging by play during this month alone, Bisu looked completely outclassed by Stork and very sloppy over Up (except for game 1, I feel that Up played that series very poorly), and it leads me to believe that Bisu can't beat anybody but zergs in his current form (excluding the "nobodies" that Anytime beats consistently). He has to be able to play more matchups than just PvZ, and unfortunately, he stacked his MSL group to hide any weakness he has in other matchups (and I hope he gets raped by Jaedong and July for it too)
Other than that I'd put Anytime instead of Xellos as #10, but I don't feel terribly strong about that.
Everything else looks good (especially Jaedong at #1)
Lol Upmagic played terrible? Upmagic displayed the best god damn TvP micro I've ever seen.
On January 12 2008 15:35 CustomXSpunjah wrote: savior should be at the very bottom of that ranking. the kid is nothing but rubbish
The bottom of the list would be #10. I think you can make a case for Savior being #10 as the bottom few ranks are usually quite interchangeable in these rankings, though I would hardly consider top 10 "rubbish"
he has no weak matchups, maybe the best tvt around, and i know hell beat jaedong in a bo3/bo5. if the next power rank doesn't have flash among the top 3, its because you guys think he is "cheese". but when boxer does it, its suddenly an act form a genius.
On January 08 2008 07:12 ._. wrote: Dunno if I should post this here but I think there should be two forms of ranking, like one where the fakesteve makes one, and one that is made up of a voting consensus from the tl community. And we could put them head to head for comparison. Would be great.
People would just vote for their favorite players every time.
And most people on here probably don't even watch that many VODs. It sounds nice at first but it would just be a waste of people's time and effort to make a list that's meaningless.
What about like the top 1-25 Liquidbetters casting their positions? Surely they should have some individualized insight and watched plenty of vods to get them that far.
You know, liquibet is mostly luck. If you are top 25, that does not necesarily mean that you are knowledgable of progamers, you could just be lucky.
But there are also people who are in the top 25 or so liquibet spots for most seasons.
Yes there are, along with less experienced members who might get lucky. The whole point is that these newer/less experienced members may not have the individual insight or have watched plenty of vods as was mentioned in that post. Since we are not going to have 25 top liquibetters casting their votes for PR, the point is useless. There are both knowlegable and lucky people at the top of Liquibet.
On January 20 2008 10:48 diggurd wrote: not anymore flash will take them both home this year, not some nobody like sea. flash des-jan: 13-4.
In OSL, if he somehow bypasses Jaedong and Stork, he has a good chance at winning. In the MSL he is up against Hwasin, and then probably Jaedong. I'd give him less than 25% of making it past Ro8.
1) Jaedong - UNSTOPPABLE 2) Sea - Despite losing to Darkelf, looking great recently 3) Much - Lost a few times in proleague, but has won where it counts (game vs. Hyun was amazing). 2-0 so far in OSL group 4) Mind - Horrible game vs. Hogil, but everything else says he is still playing like a champion 5) Luxury - 2-0 in OSL group, can you believe it? Also advanced in MSL and took down Much 6) Stork - Lame group in OSL, no wonder he's 2-0 (no MSL hurts him here too) 7) Flash - Rock??? Aside from that, winning all over the place 8) Kal - Not beating the best of opponents, but has been doing very well recently 9) July - Made it out of tough MSL group (though he picked on YarnC twice) and beat Bisu in OSL 10) UpMagiC - Is he coming back, or is he not? It's hard to tell...
CBNC:
Bisu - Beat somebody other than a terran on katrina from time to time Savior - Beat somebody from time to time Anytime - If he can get past NaDa, might climb ranks YarnC - Make like your brother and win Xellos - (-_-) Light - Doesn't look like he's getting past Sea DarkElf - lol, maybe Rock - ROCK MAKE PYLON!!!! Seriously, he played well against Flash, but that was more due to Flash sucking than anything else
I doubt we'll be seeing Much/Sea reaching the top3 at Stork's expense, or Bisu falling out of the top10. They're both winning more than they are losing this month, although if Bisu loses to Luxury he's going down the ranks a fair few notches. A closely fought loss against Jaedong, and the loss to a perfectly timing Hydra break from July aren't that underwhelming (the yellow[arnc] loss I haven't seen, though.) Stork's lack of an MSL showing was also factored into the current Power Rank, iirc.
july will not be in this power rank he is atrocious !!!!! Anytime is playing very solid !!!! He must be on the power rank, but we have 5 days to see if its true
Looks like the top seeds will stay in the same position as last month but it will be very interesting to see how the bottom few seeds will place when Savior, Light, and Xellos leave the PR. (Oh my god, Savior is leaving PR for the first time ever T_T)
Will probably be something like this:
2. Bisu (Unless he looses to Lux and the PR is done after the game) 3. Stork 4. Much 5. Mind 6. Sea (ugly, ugly loss to Jaedong and to Darkelf in PL finals) 7. Flash (If Flash beats Stork and makes OSL, provided that the PR is done after that game, Flash might place higher than Mind) 8. Kal 9. Anytime 10. Luxury
On January 28 2008 13:16 LosingID8 wrote: if anytime is not on the PR then it is most definitely flawed
qft
my list.. not very accurate but oh well
1. jaedong - does this guy lose?
2. stork - i should probably lower this guy compared to lux and sea, but excluding the losses to jaedong, he has very little losses so far. the fact that he is 2-0 in the OSL is the only going thing for him...... fuck i would drop him below lux actually but yeah... he has been playing mostly scrubs so cant tell.
3. luxury - this guy has fucking amazed me this month. he is 2-0 in his osl group including BISU, xellos and july. the most unfortunate thing for him is that he is stuck against jaedong, probably the only other zerg player that has a better z v z than luxury currently in sc. god help his soul, but i doubt he will make it farter than ro16 in msl... cant blame him for losing to jaedong though right?
4. sea - ....... i hate this bastard. i have a huge bias toward him so i think he is a choker and overrated... but he has been doing well overall. he is 1-0 in his msl group against light and 1-1 in his osl group. as long he doesnt choke against savior and somehow manage to lose, he will advance. the only thing stopping him from being higher than lux or stork is the fact that he absolutely got DOMINATED by darkelf in the ACE MATCH in proleague semifinal. way to go buddy, lose it for your team -_-; (although more blame lies with pusan and few others on the team but DAMN YOU ARE THE TEAM'S NUMBER 1 ACE IN PROLEAGUE! STEP IT UP!) and jaedong making a complete fool out of him (you guys see that game right? sea looked so freaking flustered throughout the game after initial zling attack). but he is strong nonetheless and fakesteve will make sure he is high up on the rankings ^^;
5. flash - ... he is doing good. he beat hwasin in such an impeccable manner.. up 1-0 in msl, at 1-1 in OSL, if he can somehow steal a win from stork.. he would be set for a tiebreaker round to emerge out of. but yeah. he is doign amazing. he has consistently showed strong play and very few cheese as of late (i dont got nething against it, but i guess you cant see his full range of skills if the game ends in under 10 minutes)
6. bisu - bisu has played 7 games in the month of january. besides beating trash like oversky, the only other wins came from P v T on KATRINA. i believe xellos put up a great fight against him and if it was any other map besides that imba map, i dunno what the outcome would have been. but he has lost 3 games in a row against zerg, his best matchup... he is at the position where we dont know for sure he will advance in the osl at 1-1, he was knocked out of the msl.. he is just not performing up to his usual standard. he has fallen, but not much, we dont know yet because he plays so few games... we shall see the next month if he will prove me wrong or just crumble and bow out of both individual leagues before earning himself a high seed.
7. much - he has been doing good where it counts this month... except for his loss against lux, (ugly game by much) but he is 2-0 in his group of trash. beautifiul storms against hyun, gotta give him props for that. but yeah, we will see how he does this osl cuz he aint in the msl.
8. mind - not in osl, 1-0 in your msl group, ugly game against hogil but otherwise nothing is really stopping you from advancing to the ro8 in msl. i hope to god that anytime rapes your ass in next round.. ugly fucker
9. anytime - i seriously cant believe fakesteve put xellos over this guy last month. proleague mvp, is 1-0 in his msl bracket (okay, it doesnt count for much, nada just plainly sucks and it was on katrina, i would have placed him higher but he aint in osl and yeah, nothing really individual league wise besides beating a hot kal and ruby) and his team has won the Proleague final vs CJ. darkelf i have to admit was stupid stupid stupid but you cant blame anytime taking advantage of him with splendid dragoon micro. we shall see how he does next month against mind if they both advance like i predict.
10. kal - kal is doing really well. 9-3 since december. his only loss in january coming from weaning off the fall anytime. not in the osl but he is in the msl and 1-0 against kwanro. i believe in this guy to make it far this season. im hoping he stomps sea out and jumps up a huge amount of ranks cuz of his msl performace (probably the opposite will happen BUT YOU NEVER KNOW~~)
close but no cigar? best - showing some ability to snipe high level players but not as consistent as i would like
yellow[arnc] - if only he displayed results like his brother...
upmagic - i cant belive he beat a zerg? but all things aside, he is doing quite well in the MSL
hwasin - he has got to go farther in this coming msl to make this list. better not be stomped out by flash, that first game between them was nasty.
and savior.... i thought it would never come... a power rank without this guy.. can any of you guys really believe it? i nver thought this player would EVER slump this hard. we are talking about the maestro.. the zerg who dominated all. everyone knew what was coming for them when he played, but he still couldnt be stopped. even after the 3-0 stomping from bisu, he was still very dominante, getting seeds or getting into both the OSL or MSL....... he is knocked off in the MSL this season by KAL AND RUBY, he is on the verge of being knocked out of the OSL by sea... i just cant believe it you guys...
jaedong - does this guy lose? stork - i should probably lower this guy compared to lux and sea, but excluding the losses to jaedong, he has very little losses so far. the fact that he is 2-0 in the OSL is the only going thing for him...... fuck i would drop him below lux actually but yeah... he has been playing mostly scrubs so cant tell. luxury - this guy has fucking amazed me this month. he is 2-0 in his osl group including BISU, xellos and july. the most unfortunate thing for him is that he is stuck against jaedong, probably the only other zerg player that has a better z v z than luxury currently in sc. god help his soul, but i doubt he will make it farter than ro16 in msl... cant blame him for losing to jaedong though right? sea - ....... i hate this bastard. i have a huge bias toward him so i think he is a choker and overrated... but he has been doing well overall. he is 1-0 in his msl group against light and 1-1 in his osl group. as long he doesnt choke against savior and somehow manage to lose, he will advance. the only thing stopping him from being higher than lux or stork is the fact that he absolutely got DOMINATED by darkelf in the ACE MATCH in proleague semifinal. way to go buddy, lose it for your team -_-; (although more blame lies with pusan and few others on the team but DAMN YOU ARE THE TEAM'S NUMBER 1 ACE IN PROLEAGUE! STEP IT UP!) and jaedong making a complete fool out of him (you guys see that game right? sea looked so freaking flustered throughout the game after initial zling attack). but he is strong nonetheless and fakesteve will make sure he is high up on the rankings ^^; flash - ... he is doing good. he beat hwasin in such an impeccable manner.. up 1-0 in msl, at 1-1 in OSL, if he can somehow steal a win from stork.. he would be set for a tiebreaker round to emerge out of. but yeah. he is doign amazing. he has consistently showed strong play and very few cheese as of late (i dont got nething against it, but i guess you cant see his full range of skills if the game ends in under 10 minutes) bisu - bisu has played 7 games in the month of january. besides beating trash like oversky, the only other wins came from P v T on KATRINA. i believe xellos put up a great fight against him and if it was any other map besides that imba map, i dunno what the outcome would have been. but he has lost 3 games in a row against zerg, his best matchup... he is at the position where we dont know for sure he will advance in the osl at 1-1, he was knocked out of the msl.. he is just not performing up to his usual standard. he has fallen, but not much, we dont know yet because he plays so few games... we shall see the next month if he will prove me wrong or just crumble and bow out of both individual leagues before earning himself a high seed. much - he has been doing good where it counts this month... except for his loss against lux, (ugly game by much) but he is 2-0 in his group of trash. beautifiul storms against hyun, gotta give him props for that. but yeah, we will see how he does this osl cuz he aint in the msl. mind - not in osl, 1-0 in your msl group, ugly game against hogil but otherwise nothing is really stopping you from advancing to the ro8 in msl. i hope to god that anytime rapes your ass in next round.. ugly fucker anytime - i seriously cant believe fakesteve put xellos over this guy last month. proleague mvp, is 1-0 in his msl bracket (okay, it doesnt count for much, nada just plainly sucks and it was on katrina, i would have placed him higher but he aint in osl and yeah, nothing really individual league wise besides beating a hot kal and ruby) and his team has won the Proleague final vs CJ. darkelf i have to admit was stupid stupid stupid but you cant blame anytime taking advantage of him with splendid dragoon micro. we shall see how he does next month against mind if they both advance like i predict. kal - kal is doing really well. 9-3 since december. his only loss in january coming from weaning off the fall anytime. not in the osl but he is in the msl and 1-0 against kwanro. i believe in this guy to make it far this season. im hoping he stomps sea out and jumps up a huge amount of ranks cuz of his msl performace (probably the opposite will happen BUT YOU NEVER KNOW~~)
close but no cigar? best - showing some ability to snipe high level players but not as consistent as i would like yellow[arnc] - if only he displayed results like his brother... upmagic - i cant belive he beat a zerg? but all things aside, he is doing quite well in the MSL hwasin - he has got to go farther in this coming msl to make this list. better not be stomped out by flash, that first game between them was nasty.
and savior.... i thought it would never come... a power rank without this guy.. can any of you guys really believe it? i nver thought this player would EVER slump this hard. we are talking about the maestro.. the zerg who dominated all. everyone knew what was coming for them when he played, but he still couldnt be stopped. even after the 3-0 stomping from bisu, he was still very dominante, getting seeds or getting into both the OSL or MSL....... he is knocked off in the MSL this season by KAL AND RUBY, he is on the verge of being knocked out of the OSL by sea... i just cant believe it you guys...
What a disgusting wall of text. If you want anyone to actually read your posts you might try formatting them just a little. =(
jaedong - does this guy lose? stork - i should probably lower this guy compared to lux and sea, but excluding the losses to jaedong, he has very little losses so far. the fact that he is 2-0 in the OSL is the only going thing for him...... fuck i would drop him below lux actually but yeah... he has been playing mostly scrubs so cant tell. luxury - this guy has fucking amazed me this month. he is 2-0 in his osl group including BISU, xellos and july. the most unfortunate thing for him is that he is stuck against jaedong, probably the only other zerg player that has a better z v z than luxury currently in sc. god help his soul, but i doubt he will make it farter than ro16 in msl... cant blame him for losing to jaedong though right? sea - ....... i hate this bastard. i have a huge bias toward him so i think he is a choker and overrated... but he has been doing well overall. he is 1-0 in his msl group against light and 1-1 in his osl group. as long he doesnt choke against savior and somehow manage to lose, he will advance. the only thing stopping him from being higher than lux or stork is the fact that he absolutely got DOMINATED by darkelf in the ACE MATCH in proleague semifinal. way to go buddy, lose it for your team -_-; (although more blame lies with pusan and few others on the team but DAMN YOU ARE THE TEAM'S NUMBER 1 ACE IN PROLEAGUE! STEP IT UP!) and jaedong making a complete fool out of him (you guys see that game right? sea looked so freaking flustered throughout the game after initial zling attack). but he is strong nonetheless and fakesteve will make sure he is high up on the rankings ^^; flash - ... he is doing good. he beat hwasin in such an impeccable manner.. up 1-0 in msl, at 1-1 in OSL, if he can somehow steal a win from stork.. he would be set for a tiebreaker round to emerge out of. but yeah. he is doign amazing. he has consistently showed strong play and very few cheese as of late (i dont got nething against it, but i guess you cant see his full range of skills if the game ends in under 10 minutes) bisu - bisu has played 7 games in the month of january. besides beating trash like oversky, the only other wins came from P v T on KATRINA. i believe xellos put up a great fight against him and if it was any other map besides that imba map, i dunno what the outcome would have been. but he has lost 3 games in a row against zerg, his best matchup... he is at the position where we dont know for sure he will advance in the osl at 1-1, he was knocked out of the msl.. he is just not performing up to his usual standard. he has fallen, but not much, we dont know yet because he plays so few games... we shall see the next month if he will prove me wrong or just crumble and bow out of both individual leagues before earning himself a high seed. much - he has been doing good where it counts this month... except for his loss against lux, (ugly game by much) but he is 2-0 in his group of trash. beautifiul storms against hyun, gotta give him props for that. but yeah, we will see how he does this osl cuz he aint in the msl. mind - not in osl, 1-0 in your msl group, ugly game against hogil but otherwise nothing is really stopping you from advancing to the ro8 in msl. i hope to god that anytime rapes your ass in next round.. ugly fucker anytime - i seriously cant believe fakesteve put xellos over this guy last month. proleague mvp, is 1-0 in his msl bracket (okay, it doesnt count for much, nada just plainly sucks and it was on katrina, i would have placed him higher but he aint in osl and yeah, nothing really individual league wise besides beating a hot kal and ruby) and his team has won the Proleague final vs CJ. darkelf i have to admit was stupid stupid stupid but you cant blame anytime taking advantage of him with splendid dragoon micro. we shall see how he does next month against mind if they both advance like i predict. kal - kal is doing really well. 9-3 since december. his only loss in january coming from weaning off the fall anytime. not in the osl but he is in the msl and 1-0 against kwanro. i believe in this guy to make it far this season. im hoping he stomps sea out and jumps up a huge amount of ranks cuz of his msl performace (probably the opposite will happen BUT YOU NEVER KNOW~~)
close but no cigar? best - showing some ability to snipe high level players but not as consistent as i would like yellow[arnc] - if only he displayed results like his brother... upmagic - i cant belive he beat a zerg? but all things aside, he is doing quite well in the MSL hwasin - he has got to go farther in this coming msl to make this list. better not be stomped out by flash, that first game between them was nasty.
and savior.... i thought it would never come... a power rank without this guy.. can any of you guys really believe it? i nver thought this player would EVER slump this hard. we are talking about the maestro.. the zerg who dominated all. everyone knew what was coming for them when he played, but he still couldnt be stopped. even after the 3-0 stomping from bisu, he was still very dominante, getting seeds or getting into both the OSL or MSL....... he is knocked off in the MSL this season by KAL AND RUBY, he is on the verge of being knocked out of the OSL by sea... i just cant believe it you guys...
What a disgusting wall of text. If you want anyone to actually read your posts you might try formatting them just a little. =(
would you rather have me put one line nonsense that the admins here seem to despise so much?
jaedong - does this guy lose? stork - i should probably lower this guy compared to lux and sea, but excluding the losses to jaedong, he has very little losses so far. the fact that he is 2-0 in the OSL is the only going thing for him...... fuck i would drop him below lux actually but yeah... he has been playing mostly scrubs so cant tell. luxury - this guy has fucking amazed me this month. he is 2-0 in his osl group including BISU, xellos and july. the most unfortunate thing for him is that he is stuck against jaedong, probably the only other zerg player that has a better z v z than luxury currently in sc. god help his soul, but i doubt he will make it farter than ro16 in msl... cant blame him for losing to jaedong though right? sea - ....... i hate this bastard. i have a huge bias toward him so i think he is a choker and overrated... but he has been doing well overall. he is 1-0 in his msl group against light and 1-1 in his osl group. as long he doesnt choke against savior and somehow manage to lose, he will advance. the only thing stopping him from being higher than lux or stork is the fact that he absolutely got DOMINATED by darkelf in the ACE MATCH in proleague semifinal. way to go buddy, lose it for your team -_-; (although more blame lies with pusan and few others on the team but DAMN YOU ARE THE TEAM'S NUMBER 1 ACE IN PROLEAGUE! STEP IT UP!) and jaedong making a complete fool out of him (you guys see that game right? sea looked so freaking flustered throughout the game after initial zling attack). but he is strong nonetheless and fakesteve will make sure he is high up on the rankings ^^; flash - ... he is doing good. he beat hwasin in such an impeccable manner.. up 1-0 in msl, at 1-1 in OSL, if he can somehow steal a win from stork.. he would be set for a tiebreaker round to emerge out of. but yeah. he is doign amazing. he has consistently showed strong play and very few cheese as of late (i dont got nething against it, but i guess you cant see his full range of skills if the game ends in under 10 minutes) bisu - bisu has played 7 games in the month of january. besides beating trash like oversky, the only other wins came from P v T on KATRINA. i believe xellos put up a great fight against him and if it was any other map besides that imba map, i dunno what the outcome would have been. but he has lost 3 games in a row against zerg, his best matchup... he is at the position where we dont know for sure he will advance in the osl at 1-1, he was knocked out of the msl.. he is just not performing up to his usual standard. he has fallen, but not much, we dont know yet because he plays so few games... we shall see the next month if he will prove me wrong or just crumble and bow out of both individual leagues before earning himself a high seed. much - he has been doing good where it counts this month... except for his loss against lux, (ugly game by much) but he is 2-0 in his group of trash. beautifiul storms against hyun, gotta give him props for that. but yeah, we will see how he does this osl cuz he aint in the msl. mind - not in osl, 1-0 in your msl group, ugly game against hogil but otherwise nothing is really stopping you from advancing to the ro8 in msl. i hope to god that anytime rapes your ass in next round.. ugly fucker anytime - i seriously cant believe fakesteve put xellos over this guy last month. proleague mvp, is 1-0 in his msl bracket (okay, it doesnt count for much, nada just plainly sucks and it was on katrina, i would have placed him higher but he aint in osl and yeah, nothing really individual league wise besides beating a hot kal and ruby) and his team has won the Proleague final vs CJ. darkelf i have to admit was stupid stupid stupid but you cant blame anytime taking advantage of him with splendid dragoon micro. we shall see how he does next month against mind if they both advance like i predict. kal - kal is doing really well. 9-3 since december. his only loss in january coming from weaning off the fall anytime. not in the osl but he is in the msl and 1-0 against kwanro. i believe in this guy to make it far this season. im hoping he stomps sea out and jumps up a huge amount of ranks cuz of his msl performace (probably the opposite will happen BUT YOU NEVER KNOW~~)
close but no cigar? best - showing some ability to snipe high level players but not as consistent as i would like yellow[arnc] - if only he displayed results like his brother... upmagic - i cant belive he beat a zerg? but all things aside, he is doing quite well in the MSL hwasin - he has got to go farther in this coming msl to make this list. better not be stomped out by flash, that first game between them was nasty.
and savior.... i thought it would never come... a power rank without this guy.. can any of you guys really believe it? i nver thought this player would EVER slump this hard. we are talking about the maestro.. the zerg who dominated all. everyone knew what was coming for them when he played, but he still couldnt be stopped. even after the 3-0 stomping from bisu, he was still very dominante, getting seeds or getting into both the OSL or MSL....... he is knocked off in the MSL this season by KAL AND RUBY, he is on the verge of being knocked out of the OSL by sea... i just cant believe it you guys...
What a disgusting wall of text. If you want anyone to actually read your posts you might try formatting them just a little. =(
would you rather have me put one line nonsense that the admins here seem to despise so much?
2. Stork - Shouldn't drop, but does he deserve #2? Maybe. He's winning, but his competition hasn't been tough.
3. Much - Got his team to proleague finals and got wins when they were needed. Also looking good in OSL right now.
4. Mind - Still alive in the MSL, which is more than can be said for other seeds. His opponents haven't been that tough, but he has been getting it done.
5. Sea - Aside from the ace match loss, he is still winning. Should secure a quarterfinal berth in the MSL tonight and I give him a decent shot at the same for the OSL. I wouldn't be surprised to see you higher.
6. Bisu - Oh how the mighty are falling. Not sure how far to drop you, but you are surely dropping.
7. Flash - He shows no signs of slowing down, can he beat Stork? he controls his own fate in the OSL and looks to gets to the quarterfinals of the MSL with just one more win.
8. Luxury - Won his playoff game against Much and is 3-0 in OSL. If not for being against Jaedong in the MSL I suppose he would have been likely to advance there as well. Maybe he deserves a higher spot, but I'm not sure who would deserve a lower spot.
The last two spots depend much more on tonight's results. Can July overcome a two game defecit to UpMagic? If he doesn't play like he did game one and can win convincingly enough, then I think he gets a spot. Anytime deserves a spot this month from his team Proleague victory and his play in the MSL. Kwanro has been looking decent lately, if only he could overcome Kal in the match tonight. Upmagic has rebounded a bit this month as well.
9. July/Anytime
10. Anytime/Upmagic/July/Kwanro
Savior finally drops off the top ten, as should Light and Xellos.
Others: Kal - Close, but not quite there yet. Jangbi - You've got a bad past of never living up to your claimed skill level. Win a little more and you'll get there
flash is looking extremely strong these days. he is the best terran, and should be in top three, above mind and sea, no doubt. and when he beats jd in the next MSL round, he will be on top. mark my words.
i think in terms of sheer skill and finals potential luxury and kal are better than much. in terms of results theyre about the same
edit: also, anytime is looking really good, but he unfortunately has to get through probably mind and then, probably jaedong for that MSL title. looks tough for him
jaedong - does this guy lose? stork - i should probably lower this guy compared to lux and sea, but excluding the losses to jaedong, he has very little losses so far. the fact that he is 2-0 in the OSL is the only going thing for him...... fuck i would drop him below lux actually but yeah... he has been playing mostly scrubs so cant tell. luxury - this guy has fucking amazed me this month. he is 2-0 in his osl group including BISU, xellos and july. the most unfortunate thing for him is that he is stuck against jaedong, probably the only other zerg player that has a better z v z than luxury currently in sc. god help his soul, but i doubt he will make it farter than ro16 in msl... cant blame him for losing to jaedong though right? sea - ....... i hate this bastard. i have a huge bias toward him so i think he is a choker and overrated... but he has been doing well overall. he is 1-0 in his msl group against light and 1-1 in his osl group. as long he doesnt choke against savior and somehow manage to lose, he will advance. the only thing stopping him from being higher than lux or stork is the fact that he absolutely got DOMINATED by darkelf in the ACE MATCH in proleague semifinal. way to go buddy, lose it for your team -_-; (although more blame lies with pusan and few others on the team but DAMN YOU ARE THE TEAM'S NUMBER 1 ACE IN PROLEAGUE! STEP IT UP!) and jaedong making a complete fool out of him (you guys see that game right? sea looked so freaking flustered throughout the game after initial zling attack). but he is strong nonetheless and fakesteve will make sure he is high up on the rankings ^^; flash - ... he is doing good. he beat hwasin in such an impeccable manner.. up 1-0 in msl, at 1-1 in OSL, if he can somehow steal a win from stork.. he would be set for a tiebreaker round to emerge out of. but yeah. he is doign amazing. he has consistently showed strong play and very few cheese as of late (i dont got nething against it, but i guess you cant see his full range of skills if the game ends in under 10 minutes) bisu - bisu has played 7 games in the month of january. besides beating trash like oversky, the only other wins came from P v T on KATRINA. i believe xellos put up a great fight against him and if it was any other map besides that imba map, i dunno what the outcome would have been. but he has lost 3 games in a row against zerg, his best matchup... he is at the position where we dont know for sure he will advance in the osl at 1-1, he was knocked out of the msl.. he is just not performing up to his usual standard. he has fallen, but not much, we dont know yet because he plays so few games... we shall see the next month if he will prove me wrong or just crumble and bow out of both individual leagues before earning himself a high seed. much - he has been doing good where it counts this month... except for his loss against lux, (ugly game by much) but he is 2-0 in his group of trash. beautifiul storms against hyun, gotta give him props for that. but yeah, we will see how he does this osl cuz he aint in the msl. mind - not in osl, 1-0 in your msl group, ugly game against hogil but otherwise nothing is really stopping you from advancing to the ro8 in msl. i hope to god that anytime rapes your ass in next round.. ugly fucker anytime - i seriously cant believe fakesteve put xellos over this guy last month. proleague mvp, is 1-0 in his msl bracket (okay, it doesnt count for much, nada just plainly sucks and it was on katrina, i would have placed him higher but he aint in osl and yeah, nothing really individual league wise besides beating a hot kal and ruby) and his team has won the Proleague final vs CJ. darkelf i have to admit was stupid stupid stupid but you cant blame anytime taking advantage of him with splendid dragoon micro. we shall see how he does next month against mind if they both advance like i predict. kal - kal is doing really well. 9-3 since december. his only loss in january coming from weaning off the fall anytime. not in the osl but he is in the msl and 1-0 against kwanro. i believe in this guy to make it far this season. im hoping he stomps sea out and jumps up a huge amount of ranks cuz of his msl performace (probably the opposite will happen BUT YOU NEVER KNOW~~)
close but no cigar? best - showing some ability to snipe high level players but not as consistent as i would like yellow[arnc] - if only he displayed results like his brother... upmagic - i cant belive he beat a zerg? but all things aside, he is doing quite well in the MSL hwasin - he has got to go farther in this coming msl to make this list. better not be stomped out by flash, that first game between them was nasty.
and savior.... i thought it would never come... a power rank without this guy.. can any of you guys really believe it? i nver thought this player would EVER slump this hard. we are talking about the maestro.. the zerg who dominated all. everyone knew what was coming for them when he played, but he still couldnt be stopped. even after the 3-0 stomping from bisu, he was still very dominante, getting seeds or getting into both the OSL or MSL....... he is knocked off in the MSL this season by KAL AND RUBY, he is on the verge of being knocked out of the OSL by sea... i just cant believe it you guys...
What a disgusting wall of text. If you want anyone to actually read your posts you might try formatting them just a little. =(
would you rather have me put one line nonsense that the admins here seem to despise so much?
Press enter once more between paragraphs. It helps soo much. I agree that it's an ugly wall of text. I read a bit of it, but yeah, a bit of formatting would go a long way into getting people to read it
On February 01 2008 04:30 Nick_54 wrote: Anyone think Light should hold on to his spot after last night?
I think Steve should just update these after the MSL ro8 is set and the OSL groups are done besides tiebreakers.
Good idea. It is goin to be only 2 days into the month and after that it looks like there won't be any PR relevant games for 2 weeks so after the 2'nd would be the perfect time for the new PR.
I guess Light could get 10'th spot but Kal/Lux/AT are worthy contenders for the bottom 3.
I'm going to say no, the chances of that are really freaking slim. Sea could have made it to the finals pretty easily if he had gotten past Light (or at least he should have). Even if he wins in OSL he has to go through a tiebreaker, and that's nothing to take for granted.
Also, Kal reminds me a lot of Mind in a way. Steady and solid (but not spectacular) player. He has a shot at this MSL, but no one will want to take him seriously even if he wins. Also his path will have to take him through at least one good but not always so consistent player (why hello there Light). Only major difference is Kal had more time to establish himself in proleague.
my initial list got fucked up. who woulda thought sea would lose? oh btw, i edited my post to make it reader friendly. spaces, nubmers and all the workS>___<
god good luck steve, the next power rank is gonna be one big SON OF A BITCH. nobody is playing as expected of them .
On February 01 2008 07:14 kramus wrote: anyone think sea threw his set against light so that they could each focus on one league, which might be better for mbc? do they do things like that?
absolutely not
and i agree, steve should wait until after msl groups are over to get a better picture
Oh good. One last chance for Bisu to prove he's still playing well. Or one last chance for Bisu to die to all ins. Plus Sea might trash Jaedong this time.
There's a little bit in this for the both of us Steve! : >
Actually thinking about it, there's no dates for the quarter final games in the calendar. If you post the PR same day or a day after the tiebreakers, which means 6th or 7th (I only THINK the tiebreakers are on the 6th). And the quarterfinals 'best of' games of both leagues start kicking in full speed the next day, well the reasoning for one's choices can fast become (unfairly) criticized, if they didn't even have a week to settle in :-) If that makes sense. I just hate to see heavy 'blabla' from people right after a player who seemed and should have continued to kick ass, suddenly chokes. For example if Bisu kicks major ass in the tie breakers and you'd keep him mid-way in the PR, then falls a harsh 0-3 like we know he's capeable of now... well thats what I mean. Would be ok if the PR came out tommorow though, and Bisu would rise and fall week and a half later. Anyway... yeah :-) Then again, the tie breakers are really important for a proper PR right now, specialy for players like Best, Flash as well, will they even advance? and... will Jaedong?! :-D
please dont wait for tiebreakers. its not a monthly power rank than. where is the challenge in waiting when creating the rank. doesnt it take more talent to accurately predict who is doing well rather than takin a safe way out and waiting a third of the month in to post the new rank?
On February 01 2008 20:55 VioleTAK wrote: Actually thinking about it, there's no dates for the quarter final games in the calendar. If you post the PR same day or a day after the tiebreakers, which means 6th or 7th (I only THINK the tiebreakers are on the 6th). And the quarterfinals 'best of' games of both leagues start kicking in full speed the next day, well the reasoning for one's choices can fast become (unfairly) criticized, if they didn't even have a week to settle in :-) If that makes sense. I just hate to see heavy 'blabla' from people right after a player who seemed and should have continued to kick ass, suddenly chokes. For example if Bisu kicks major ass in the tie breakers and you'd keep him mid-way in the PR, then falls a harsh 0-3 like we know he's capeable of now... well thats what I mean. Would be ok if the PR came out tommorow though, and Bisu would rise and fall week and a half later. Anyway... yeah :-) Then again, the tie breakers are really important for a proper PR right now, specialy for players like Best, Flash as well, will they even advance? and... will Jaedong?! :-D
1. There are four days between the 2'nd when the MSL ro16 is finished and the tiebreakers. Four days of non relevant activity. Preliminaries will not affect the PR. There is just no point in waiting through 4 empty days for the tiebreakers. This 4 day break is the perfect bounady for Jan-Feb PR.
2. If the PR is made after the tiebreakers, it will already be a 5'th of the way into the month. Since it is monthly, it should be made as close to the beginning of the month (end of the previous month) as possible.
Besides the tiebreakers will not be that influential. If Jaedong is eliminated, he will still remain #1. Bisu will not place over Stork regardless of him advancing or being eliminated Xellos leaves PR regardless. July won't make PR regardless.
Though, if Sea is eliminated, he will have to drop to the bottom. Same goes for Flash. However, I doubt they will.
On February 01 2008 20:55 VioleTAK wrote: Actually thinking about it, there's no dates for the quarter final games in the calendar. If you post the PR same day or a day after the tiebreakers, which means 6th or 7th (I only THINK the tiebreakers are on the 6th). And the quarterfinals 'best of' games of both leagues start kicking in full speed the next day, well the reasoning for one's choices can fast become (unfairly) criticized, if they didn't even have a week to settle in :-) If that makes sense. I just hate to see heavy 'blabla' from people right after a player who seemed and should have continued to kick ass, suddenly chokes. For example if Bisu kicks major ass in the tie breakers and you'd keep him mid-way in the PR, then falls a harsh 0-3 like we know he's capeable of now... well thats what I mean. Would be ok if the PR came out tommorow though, and Bisu would rise and fall week and a half later. Anyway... yeah :-) Then again, the tie breakers are really important for a proper PR right now, specialy for players like Best, Flash as well, will they even advance? and... will Jaedong?! :-D
1. There are four days between the 2'nd when the MSL ro16 is finished and the tiebreakers. Four days of non relevant activity. Preliminaries will not affect the PR. There is just no point in waiting through 4 empty days for the tiebreakers. This 4 day break is the perfect bounady for Jan-Feb PR.
2. If the PR is made after the tiebreakers, it will already be a 5'th of the way into the month. Since it is monthly, it should be made as close to the beginning of the month (end of the previous month) as possible.
Besides the tiebreakers will not be that influential. If Jaedong is eliminated, he will still remain #1. Bisu will not place over Stork regardless of him advancing or being eliminated Xellos leaves PR regardless. July won't make PR regardless.
Though, if Sea is eliminated, he will have to drop to the bottom. Same goes for Flash. However, I doubt they will.
Agreed 100%, great points. Flash might still at least have the MSL going for him, while Sea is out for sure.
I'm going to wait until after the tiebreakers simply because its only a few days and it'll give me a clear idea as to where to place sea, flash, and bisu
On February 02 2008 06:34 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: I'm going to wait until after the tiebreakers simply because its only a few days and it'll give me a clear idea as to where to place sea, flash, and bisu
If u do this choice u will have to consider the light vs Kal quarter final (tuesday 5th)
He said he wanted to wait until tiebreakers to decide bisu/flash/sea placements but the real reason he waited is because if Kal looses against Light it could be an excuse for not placing Kal on the PR
On February 03 2008 06:09 TheTyranid wrote: He said he wanted to wait until tiebreakers to decide bisu/flash/sea placements but the real reason he waited is because if Kal looses against Light it could be an excuse for not placing Kal on the PR
On February 04 2008 02:16 diggurd wrote: jd, stork, flash, much and nada in top five!
I think it would be slightly wishful thinking to see NaDa in the top five... Look at game 1 versus anytime. Not the performance of a currently top 5 progamer. Looking at stork... + Show Spoiler +
he was just eliminated from the MSL offline qualifiers. Granted, he is playing in the OSL... but he isn't in any tiebreaker series and should have pulled through that group.
I think a stronger case could be made for Mind... as much as I don't like him.
Some tough calls for Steve this month. Few of the regular favourites are playing well. Wouldn't say many at all are playing well. Aside from the odd game, the quality of games recently have been terrible...
didn't make it out of his MSL offline prelims group, and of all maps he lost on Katrina on the final game. Thats how far bad karma goes in progaming :-) Yet again NO MSL FOR YOU Mr.Bird!
I think Luxury should get a high spot this month. He's been playing well against everybody (except Jaedong) and looks like a real contender for this OSL
that game he messed it up real bad with like 5 too many cors.(from 2 sgates....) i guess he underestimated Bright real bad. he is still one of the best
weird month... I guess stork much mind luxury and flash will be at hight positions, but the only clear one is Jaedong being #1, the only one really consistent this month...
Surprises everywhere apart of him.
I hope Kal does it to PR, i started liking him, a pitty that he lost to shark -_-
On February 05 2008 20:37 HaXxorIzed wrote: Kal won, fairly easily. If Bisu doesn't do that well FakeSteve is going to be having "FUCK KAL" all over the incoming PR o:
tiebreakers are today, power rank will be up tomorrow
As it stands right now the only definite things are Jaedong in first place and the fact that Kal will need a low spot because he's playing pretty well right now
this officially marks the end of my hatred of kal, and now that hatred will be forced upon Jangbi, who i actually kind of like, but since kal means sword and jangbi means spear its a logical progression. plus he sucks.
On February 06 2008 07:32 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: tiebreakers are today, power rank will be up tomorrow
As it stands right now the only definite things are Jaedong in first place and the fact that Kal will need a low spot because he's playing pretty well right now
this officially marks the end of my hatred of kal, and now that hatred will be forced upon Jangbi, who i actually kind of like, but since kal means sword and jangbi means spear its a logical progression. plus he sucks.
On February 06 2008 07:32 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: tiebreakers are today, power rank will be up tomorrow
As it stands right now the only definite things are Jaedong in first place and the fact that Kal will need a low spot because he's playing pretty well right now
this officially marks the end of my hatred of kal, and now that hatred will be forced upon Jangbi, who i actually kind of like, but since kal means sword and jangbi means spear its a logical progression. plus he sucks.
THE END OF THE WORLD IS NEAR!
hell naw bitch the antichrist just has a pudgier face now
On February 06 2008 12:00 Jyvblamo wrote: Can't we just hate on Rock? As long as we're going on a progression of cruder melee weapons... Sword -> Spear -> Rock
Some notes on the current PR guys. No need to say anything about Jaedong, he is Zerg perfection. Much 3-0, well done. Lets see if he can keep it up. Mind cleared his offline group 6-0, plus his chances against NaDa are looking good since his TvT is so damn amazing solid. I still hate him though and hope NaDa can kick his ass. NaDa deserves CBNC. Sea... bah do whatever you want :-( Stork didn't make it out of MBC offlines. And all Light did was eliminate his teammate Sea who would have kicked Kal's ass, and damn the map pool. Flash breezed through the tiebreakers. A real contender for a title this time around, both of them. And as for Bisu, he's going to win the OSL, just so you know. The 'best of' series is where Bisu shines above all, he'll retake #1 soon enough :-) Just let Jaedong and Bisu play a Bo5 and all will see who the real champion is. ...sAviOr... *cries*
Bisu's back guys. I'd leave him at number 2 honestly, but thats fanboyism. Do what you have to with Sea. I guess Kal is gonna get a low spot.
Quick Predictions
1. Jaedong - easy #1 2. Bisu - showed balls in the tiebreakers. 3. Stork - Champions don't lose in the offlines, no 4 pool excuses, you fucked up the Katrina game. 4. Flash - along with Jaedong only one in ro8 in both leagues, unfortunatly he'll have to face Jaedong in both. If you beat Stork in the game you were ahead, I'd give you 3. 5. Mind - Shine isn't the best gauge of competition, rolled in offlines. 6. Luxury - 3-0'd a solid group. 7. Much - Sorry, but you get punished for beating a weak group. 8. Kal - abused the maps against Light, but Zodiac was good. 9. Upmagic - dominated July in your supposed weakest mu 10. Sea - should get rewared for making ro16 in both leagues, I guess. Even though you didn't reward Flash a couple months ago for ro8 and ro32. Its fine though, he plays better than any of the other players.
CBNC - Nada, Best, Anytime.
Edit: I think you could switch Up and Sea, or Lux and Much.
sea hasnt proven himself, so many fanboys here that supports him to much. He fails he fails over and over, still you rank him way to high. sea off the power rank!
I'm not sure Bisu deserves 2. He made it out of his OSL group, yes, but....barely. And let's not forget he was eliminated in the round of 32 MSL group that he set up for himself. The problem is, no one else, besides Jaedong, has really been consistent so far this year.
Both Stork and Mind could be #2 as well. Mind is quietly doing well, and even though he suffered a horrible loss and failed to qualify for the MSL again, Stork's doing very well in OSL.
Personally I'd place both Mind and Flash before Stork. He just keeps losing too much in offline prelims. Both Mind and Flash look more consistent... (and this is coming from one of the greatest Mind haters you'll ever meet. Can't stand the guy! But, he's good...).
Hoping for Bisu to keep the 2nd spot, but that's because I love him.
Taking Bisu off the 2nd spot has one major problem: Who to put in his place? Sure, he has only won some easy games against Terrans on Katrina in Proleague and OSL, he has barely survived the groupstage with - finally - a win against Zerg on Blue Storm. But who else? We can go through the whole top 10: Stork? A #2 PR should at least have the possibility to attend the next MSL. Mind? Didn't really have the chance to show anything flashy this month which would support a promotion. Much? Well, he is winning ... but that is about it. Maybe the most serious candidate, but his OSL group was not really hard. Sea? lol. Savior? double-lol. Flash? Sure, he is doing fine, but is he doing "from-eight-to-two"-fine? Light? ahem ... he went down in a rather clear fashion against Kal, even though the maps were favouring Protoss Xellos? surely not.
New entries? We will most likely see Luxury and Kal making it in. But losing in MSL Ro16 and 3-0 OSL groupstage, respectively reaching MSL Ro8 don't make a PR 2nd yet.
On February 07 2008 02:37 Aesop wrote: Taking Bisu off the 2nd spot has one major problem: Who to put in his place? Sure, he has only won some easy games against Terrans on Katrina in Proleague and OSL, he has barely survived the groupstage with - finally - a win against Zerg on Blue Storm. But who else? We can go through the whole top 10: Stork? A #2 PR should at least have the possibility to attend the next MSL. Mind? Didn't really have the chance to show anything flashy this month which would support a promotion. Much? Well, he is winning ... but that is about it. Maybe the most serious candidate, but his OSL group was not really hard. Sea? lol. Savior? double-lol. Flash? Sure, he is doing fine, but is he doing "from-eight-to-two"-fine? Light? ahem ... he went down in a rather clear fashion against Kal, even though the maps were favouring Protoss Xellos? surely not.
New entries? We will most likely see Luxury and Kal making it in. But losing in MSL Ro16 and 3-0 OSL groupstage, respectively reaching MSL Ro8 don't make a PR 2nd yet.
EPT
for savior though, CMON!!!!11
.
and looking forward for the next month 
