Power Rank 06/02/2007 - Page 4

On June 03 2007 13:24 GrandInquisitor wrote:
...
You're obviously still drunk on the legend of the invicible Savior, dating to about pre-MSL final. That's gone now. Savior isn't Federer anymore - he's a Roddick or Hewitt. Still one of the best players in the world, but no longer the overwhelming favorite to win anywhere, anytime, against anyone.

On June 03 2007 16:08 Hot_Bid wrote:

i agree with the rest of your post (bisu #1 for now) and i think just about everyone does, but this tennis analogy is off.

if you're forced to make a tennis analogy, savior is federer still. yes he lost in the MSL final, but Federer loses in the French. just because he lost a few random events and proleague doesn't change the fact that's through in the MSL to the ro16 (up 1-0 on stork) and 2-0 and through groups in the OSL. that's all you really can ask of him, to advance in the "grand slams." even federer loses between the australian and the french.

to sum up, and etter has stated this too, savior's mediocre proleague record and some invite tournament losses does not constitute "slump" because he hasn't been eliminated from a major league (after qualifying for it) before the finals in like 2 years. how can you say a player who does that has lost status?

to complete the analogy, bisu is nadal, an up and coming young player who broke through and has a winning record vs the dominant player, savior.

it even works out when you compare it historically--savior-federer has a lot of major wins, but is chasing the record (nada has 3 OSL 3 MSL, savior has 3 MSL 1 OSL), while bisu-nadal has only 1 but looks just as strong right now. they are poised to meet in OSL or MSL finals, much like federer/nadal will meet in the French final and possibly Wimbledon final this year.

On June 03 2007 18:02 LastRomantic wrote:
Alright.

Reach needs a better photo.

That one... what the hell? that was one of the worst KTF uniform shirts ever. And his hair isn't awesomely done.

On June 03 2007 12:53 DJEtterStyle wrote:
It's not just that they've shown good games. These are championship players. Of course I'm going to give them preference over players like Flash and Firebathero; Reach and July have actually, at some point in their careers, accomplished something, which points to their ability to do it again. You can't say that about Flash and Firebathero.

On June 03 2007 12:53 DJEtterStyle wrote:
Because both look unstoppable, and Savior has never managed to beat Bisu. If Bisu slips up or Savior manages to beat him, I'll rethink things. At this point, though, Bisu and Savior are in good position to win both Starleagues, and if they went head to head, I'd have to call Bisu the favorite, given their history. Jathin said it best:

On June 03 2007 20:10 boghat wrote:

Okay I concede that Bisu stays at #1 this month. But Savior makes me feel so drunk inside with his stylish clothing and slick defiler usage that I couldn't just let him stay at #2 without a fight.

On June 03 2007 19:47 boghat wrote:
GrandInquisitor - My point was that Savior made two finals and won the more prestigious one whereas Bisu only made one final. Just the fact that Savior made two finals over Bisu's one is the impressive thing.

The only reason Bisu is over Savior is because he keeps beating Savior so I guess this is a good enough reason. I was simply wondering how long Bisu's 3-0 win over Savior in the MSL is going to keep him above Savior. Because other than that Savior has looked slightly more impressive. He has a better Proleague record and he also has been beating top players like Stork and iloveoov in easy fashion. He also didn't lose to fucking Oversky like Bisu did in the MSL. He lost to Gorush but I thought he played pretty good and that Gorush just played unbelieveable. But it is true that it's going to be hard to say if a game by Savior should be overlooked just because he is playing terran. But Gorush is a lot better than Oversky anyway.

GrandInquisitor, I know we've had an argument or two in the past but you don't have to be so condescending in your comments to me. You just didn't get that I was saying that even though Bisu beat Savior in the MSL Savior came in first in the OSL and 2nd in the MSL while Bisu wasn't even in the OSL. That was my argument. Just because you didn't seem to get that doesn't mean it's bad and if you did get that I don't see how it's such a bad argument.

I think the WWI should pretty much not even be taken into consideration but I guess the fact that Bisu was able to beat Savior 2-1 in that is enough to keep Bisu 1st for this month. And I guess I probably would have used WWI as an argument for Savior had Savior won so I will concede to saying Bisu deserves first but only because he managed to beat Savior in WWI. That's really the only reason.

On June 03 2007 18:00 Hot_Bid wrote:
i wasnt saying that its an exact analogy

i was saying "if you had to make a tennis analogy..."

imo his losses between major leagues in proleague is similar to federer's losses between wimbleton and the french, to "nobodies" as well. would you say federer's aura is diminished because of those losses?

until he loses in a major he's still got the aura

im saying if you had to make a tennis analogy the closest one is federer=savior nadal=bisu

this is assuming that savior WAS comparable to federer before, an assumption you made in your original post to boghat... so by saying "even calling savior federer in his heyday is a stretch" you're basically arguing with yourself, because you're the one that made the analogy in the first place and i was simply operating in your own assumption. i agree that federer on the top of his game is impossible for any brood war player to emulate, but again, you're the one that started the tennis analogies.

i don't see how a few proleague losses should change how we view him, yes he can be beaten but until he is eliminated in a major league i still see him as the dominant player (along with bisu).

working within the starcraft universe, right now savior is the closest thing to federer we have, and his aura/legacy/way we view him shouldn't be changed by the interim time between OSLs/MSLs just like Federer's shouldn't be changed by a few losses in tune-ups for the French.

On June 03 2007 20:56 mikeymoo wrote:
Game set and MATCH. =P

Thanks for fighting, boghat.

On June 03 2007 21:04 GrandInquisitor wrote:


The only reason I was condescending was the fact that you're trying to simulataneously defend the fact that OSL/MSL still matters - which it does - and then defend that it doesn't matter that Savior lost to Bisu. Bisu didn't qualify for OSL - true. Is that what we're judging him now on, though? Isn't that a little too far back?

On June 03 2007 18:44 Gokey wrote:

you're such a girl mr.romantic

On June 03 2007 13:24 GrandInquisitor wrote:
Aha, finally. Okay, I'll grant you that - even though it is Proleague, and your chances at making a case for Savior being #1 would not fare well resting on Savior's proleague record. That having been said, it is the one player who has beaten Bisu but not Savior - and honestly, losing a PvP vs winning a ZvP, is that so outrageous?

On June 03 2007 13:24 GrandInquisitor wrote:
But you know what really draws the line for me? Savior has never beaten Bisu. Every time they've met - MSL finals, Race Wars, WWI - Bisu has wiped the floor with Savior. Given that, you're gonna need some truly breathtaking evidence to justify ranking Savior over a player he simply can't beat.

On March 03 2007 DJEtterStyle wrote:
I know the 0-3 loss to Bisu looks bad - and it was - but if anyone can overcome the OGN Curse, it's Savior. Given all that he's achieved in recent memory, I'd be doing him and the PR an incredible disservice if I put him at anywhere but #1.

On April 02 2007 DJEtterStyle wrote:
Well, it happened: someone knocked Savior from his perch. I'm just not happy to do it under these circumstances. Bisu's MSL victory came after the post-OSL slump of Savior, and the Superfight is a nothing tournament. So the piece of evidence that ultimately swayed my opinion was Bisu tearing through the OSL preliminaries.

On June 03 2007 12:53 DJEtterStyle wrote:
Because both look unstoppable, and Savior has never managed to beat Bisu. If Bisu slips up or Savior manages to beat him, I'll rethink things. At this point, though, Bisu and Savior are in good position to win both Starleagues, and if they went head to head, I'd have to call Bisu the favorite, given their history.