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On August 22 2013 05:51 DKR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 00:10 Mura19 wrote:On August 20 2013 23:52 dNa wrote:
I feel like everything will come into place. Terrans need some time to figure out some way to punish too greedy protosses but overall yay balanced. :D
<- Terran What? I'ts impossible for Protoss to me more greeedy than command center first :S Going for early 3 nexus is a part of the meta at the moment and there's been no super reliable way of shutting it down presented by Terran. 14cc may be more greedy in the early game but in the early->mid transition, Protoss has it much easier and much greedier (if they choose to play that way).
It seems like Protoss greed in PvP and PvZ is going for a quick third. Protoss greed in PvT is usually tech based greed where they're double forge + colossus + twilight only off of 1 gate + robo up until ~50 supply.
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I think people are voting toss, because when they lose to toss it's usually that the deathball crushed through them which feels like there's nothing you could have done about it. Losing to a muta switch, or taking too much damage from harass feels like something less imba than losing badly in an army vs army fight.
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On August 23 2013 01:43 HeeroFX wrote:
I think Zerg, just a strong race, lots of ways to hurt. I'd like to see a poll of what we think the weakest race is.
Eh, in a way, this also shows what the weakest race is.
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I like to see a poll next to this where you must also vote which race you play your self. Because this is probably just pick the race I loose the most too.
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On August 23 2013 01:17 Dwayn wrote:
voted toss, because they have an edge in every matchup. I meet master tosses on EU ladder with like 60-80 apm, never seen a terran or a zerg hit masters with such low apm. Also toss has the best 2 base allins.
This is a silly argument. Firstly, you can't take in account some really extreme cases and generalize it into "protoss doesn't require apm" (that's what you mean in the end), you should compare the average apm of your opponents. Also most master players spam all the time, which means that people who don't look ridiculously slow especially if the game ends early on. Secondly, even if protoss required low apm, this wouldn't mean that it is an easier race. People seem to forget that starcraft is not only about doing a ton of things quickly, it's also (and mostly) about doing the right things, that's why (and it's completely fair) you can beat people who play much faster than you.
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On August 23 2013 01:55 Nikoras wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2013 05:51 DKR wrote:On August 21 2013 00:10 Mura19 wrote:On August 20 2013 23:52 dNa wrote:
I feel like everything will come into place. Terrans need some time to figure out some way to punish too greedy protosses but overall yay balanced. :D
<- Terran What? I'ts impossible for Protoss to me more greeedy than command center first :S Going for early 3 nexus is a part of the meta at the moment and there's been no super reliable way of shutting it down presented by Terran. 14cc may be more greedy in the early game but in the early->mid transition, Protoss has it much easier and much greedier (if they choose to play that way). It seems like Protoss greed in PvP and PvZ is going for a quick third. Protoss greed in PvT is usually tech based greed where they're double forge + colossus + twilight only off of 1 gate + robo up until ~50 supply.
Early 3rd nexus is really hard to defend because you will get multipronged and you can't photon overcharge both you main base and 3rd at the same time. Also when medivacs come out it loses its reliability as a defense, you need units to stay alive after 10 minutes.
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Terran,but not horrible imo
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On August 23 2013 01:43 HeeroFX wrote:
I think Zerg, just a strong race, lots of ways to hurt. I'd like to see a poll of what we think the weakest race is.
this is a really good point, i think protoss would also win.
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I think its the same as WoL. Z>P>T<Z
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T.O.P
469 Posts
Not going to lie, but i lose to protoss players who a-move and storms. lol
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France9034 Posts
On August 22 2013 14:13 Mura19 wrote:Nice graphic GodZo, that prove 37% peoples voting Protoss OP don't understand the game  Protoss (1096) 37% No race is significantly imbalanced (845) 29% Terran (762) 26% Zerg (241) 8%
No, it proves he and many other people still don't understand how to infer from statistics.
A race can be overpowered (as in slightly, there's no blatant imbalance in the game, sorry to disappoint) and still not be the most winning race at the pro level.
Pro gamer don't choose their race so that the distribution is even, their skill level aren't finite quantities with discrete "level of skill" (think of energy levels in physics), nerves play a role, etc.
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Powerful is a very broad term so it's pretty fail poll tbh.
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I think the majority of people vote protoss because they have their race and expect to be able to 'a move' their army and win at almost any point in the game, or win with little/no harassment. They are strong, otherwise no one would play them.. without the protoss spell casters they would be pretty weak, as they have to do damage but also maintain their army. Happy to be proven wrong though.
Personally I think it is rare that a terran or a zerg should ever attack a protoss army directly in one big battle.. protoss army doesn't always seem to be able to with stand endurance fighting - small but regular engagements instead. I could be wrong though. Not as black and white as I said it in practice.
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On August 21 2013 12:12 Scarecrow wrote:
Surprised Protoss is so high, you'd think they'd be dominating GSL with that kind of imbalance. The game's pretty balanced atm imo.
Explain to me how Protoss would be dominating when they were all eliminated before the hellbat nerf and warp prism buff? Then all of a sudden 6 toss destroy WCS Europe and they were the majority in WCS America until the quarterfinals.
Plus
60.3% winrate for Protoss in PvT
132 games to 87 for Terran.
They were 47% winrate in Korea because of the reason stated above. Use your brain.
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On August 23 2013 01:59 Uni1987 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2013 01:43 HeeroFX wrote:
I think Zerg, just a strong race, lots of ways to hurt. I'd like to see a poll of what we think the weakest race is. Eh, in a way, this also shows what the weakest race is.
No this pool shows nothing of the sort. It only shows a) what race i loose most of the time b) what i saw most resent months to happened to my favorite players vs that race c) almost nothing because its not putted like "whats the most OP at high levels or Certain level.(or else)"
The only think i can pretty much get from this is that majority people that voted are between this and that, and/or count 1-2 tournaments they watched recently.
Protoss is a bit easier to play at low levels because zerg and terrans powers shine at higher levels when you got solid macro and good APM to micro. Terran race is just APM hungry beast, and since blizzard would never touch the marine which means they making Mech viable would have to mean its nerf or hiving absolutely minimum synergy between mech and bio, it would remain more of a micro, tactics race that a strategical one with "support roles of mech units" (of-course by mech i mean slow,heavy, powerful BW mech( BW tanks <3), As for zerg it becomes OP in certain "let the zerg do what it wants and then wonder why it has endless supply of army :D" which sadly is more of a map per map us issue and with the larva mechanic (by it I mean produce 10,20,50 of unit "X" at once) which becomes problem when zerg now got really cost efficient units like SH (or Infestor back in the day) and i mention maps where zergs can stack high amount of resources with minimum defense. And as for Protoos its flows both in mechanichs and everything has been said times and times again.
Well the game is not truly balance and not even close to it. The true problem lies at "they say that - numbers show its balanced, We tell it looks and feel imbalanced both for players and viewers -> which leads to frustration even if your player won against "the OP", I don't know if I'm of the minority of people(most of people i know that have stopped watching said almost the same) that gets this feeling in the last couple of months with HOTS,the meta and the current state of units and strats.
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On August 23 2013 03:43 KingAlphard wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2013 01:17 Dwayn wrote:
voted toss, because they have an edge in every matchup. I meet master tosses on EU ladder with like 60-80 apm, never seen a terran or a zerg hit masters with such low apm. Also toss has the best 2 base allins. This is a silly argument. Firstly, you can't take in account some really extreme cases and generalize it into "protoss doesn't require apm" (that's what you mean in the end), you should compare the average apm of your opponents. Also most master players spam all the time, which means that people who don't look ridiculously slow especially if the game ends early on. Secondly, even if protoss required low apm, this wouldn't mean that it is an easier race. People seem to forget that starcraft is not only about doing a ton of things quickly, it's also (and mostly) about doing the right things, that's why (and it's completely fair) you can beat people who play much faster than you.
Sorry to rain on your parade, but i agree with Dwayn. Additionally, with forcefields a protoss can make any engagement efficient and they can also defend well using them too.
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If the vote was what race is the most underpowered, it would be zerg. There is one fix that can balance it all out: make widow mines visible. Or make banelings ranged while burrowed and be able to attack air (that would make just as much sense as a widow mine).
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EPT
