EPTWhich race is the most powerful? - Page 9
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Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
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Sajaki
Canada1135 Posts
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JacobShock
Denmark2485 Posts
On August 25 2013 13:42 Olferen wrote: I really hate people like you. Not sure if you're being sarcastic. In case you forgot, banelings can move fairly fast and attack while above ground and don't have a 40 second cool down, and banelings also don't hurt your own units. Oh and banelings can be made 40 at a time, widow mines pretty much just 2 at a time. Not to mention they can get upgraded ground attacks. It's okay friend, WoL is over and you can't a-move anymore, time to learn to micro I suppose? I love how you choose to combat idiocy with being an idiot yourself. Its a shame I completely agree with your first statement. | ||
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Henk
Netherlands578 Posts
Which by the way needs to happen before terran reaches 3-3, as there's no way to get 3-3 yourself while defending vs these pushes, because you need every 25 spare gas to make banelings. Not really sure what can be done to fix this without making widow mines obsolete. I feel protoss is in a really good state atm - pretty balanced and really fun zvp, and tvp is cool too. I actually even like pvp, since it's no longer a game of trying to get more colossi than your opponent. | ||
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SweKenZo
Sweden82 Posts
On August 21 2013 01:33 chuiboy wrote: I'm a zerg and i voted protoss. Forcefields make thing way too easy for the protoss to engage and to defend. I also feel that late game ZvT favors terran. @ InfusedTT.DaZe Protoss "is" the joke. How can a race be so broken. I was also of this opinion about a year ago. But then i realized that mutas dont care about FFs  On a serious note tho.... engage the protoss early on the field to make him waste FFs, then back off and engage once more! | ||
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Joxitotot
United States2 Posts
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MrGeekArt
France15 Posts
On August 21 2013 18:47 dNa wrote: prolly because unlike in sc2 you don't just play one fighter, you play them all (or at least more than one) right? The reason that sc2 is different in that racial imbalances cause the game to suffer is that, if one race is blatantly weaker/stronger than the others, people will get frustrated with playing because they can't really just switch their race like fighters in a fighting game. My 2/cts off-topic : Pro SF2ST players play 2 fighters. They'll obviously know very well every others characters but more like : This guy's can do that specific mid air attack, and i should answer to this with move A with my main and move A' with my second fighter. You can't even expect to be as good as a focused player by playing every fighters of this game. And i believe it's as difficult as in SC2 to switch race/fighters However, you're not that far of the truth cause smart player will choose X and Y fighters to end up having a "bad" XvZ matchup but good YvZ (if you see where i'm going here... ) On-Topic (2 cts also): Voted balanced, mostly due to the games i saw in WCS I'll try to explain with my poor english: While playing a very similar style vs T, Scarlett and Jeadong ended with .... different results. You should probably refined this using TL / LP but I think ZvT games she won pretty much every time with 3hatch into muta/ling muta and skipping roach without having that much of mutas hit by widow mines. While Jeadong lost 0-4 to Bomber trying this 3 times. I think Jeadong did suffer these loss cause A/ he played only P on the previous games B/ Bomber studyied Scarlett' muta/ling/bane play and adapt very well (no marauders, more mines and quicker claws [Oh, and unbelievable macro]) These games demonstrate to me how much we still have to discover in term of builds and metagame. With slight adjustements, Bomber did crush a playstyle that I found incredibly OP hours ago Edit: LP told me i'm a faggot. I must edit that quick  | ||
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Meatpuppet
United States86 Posts
Endless bio pushes supported by medivacs and tanks were also tough to deal with in WoL but with the actual chance to punish a mistake made by the terran. You could actually chase down the medivacs and bring the fight to the terran front door. You can't do this at all in HotS thanks to Medivac speed boost and again the widow mine. So you are forced to just defend while waiting for what? Somehow make it to Hive tech and 3/3 upgrades? Out-expand the terran and win a war of attrition? Hope the Terran throws away too much and you take back the initiative? Not sure if the last point is even possible. Why bang your head against a wall like this, let's just roach/baneling all in, who cares if it works or not at least the game will be over soon. | ||
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MuMeise
Germany81 Posts
but it is like t>z>p>t I think terran has a slight advantage overall. The lategame combo from taeja with viking mass ghost + mass command center is pretty much as strong as late game toss combos... so also there toss has no advantage anymore for toss. also SW Viper + infestor is lategame imho stronger than toss also easier to play since SW have a stupid design... they produce an endless stream of free units and the toss has to defend perfectly... it's like bio mine for terran against zerg... zerg has to defend perfectly against this combo... one mistake and as toss you are done against SH viper same goes for bio mine as zerg... Like I said it is balanced.. . but often doesn't feel that way since the matchups themselfs favor one or the other race in terms of effort vs. cost | ||
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bluQ
Germany1724 Posts
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Lysanias
Netherlands8351 Posts
Well i voted Terran they seem most complete of all races and it's nice to complain about what zerg does not have according to a low rank player. gief Infested Widow mines ty. (Infestors now drop Widow mines at the same cost as Infested Terrans) | ||
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BlackPride
United States186 Posts
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unigolyn
Estonia1272 Posts
On August 21 2013 00:09 RoranRock wrote: Zergs vote "Terran", Terrans vote "Protoss", protoss vote "No race is significantly imbalanced" And here we have 33%/33%/33% I'm a Terran and I voted "No race is significantly imbalanced". I agree with the general pecking order of T > Z > P > T, but it's not significant. I believe both zergs problems with biomine and terrans problems with toss are blips in the current metagame that will likely get solved. | ||
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unigolyn
Estonia1272 Posts
On August 29 2013 15:39 Sajaki wrote: Im a terran player and I voted for Terran. Even if TvP might be a nightmare past a certain time, i still think Terran is the best designed overall and has the *potential* to outplay any race at almost any time. Then I don't think you noticed the word "significant". Terran does have the unique position of being immune to build order losses in the early game. Unless you're doing something pants-on-head retarded, you can live through anything and not automatically die. | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
I don't think Zerg is imbalanced though, I just think I have no idea how to play the matchup. | ||
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Sajaki
Canada1135 Posts
On August 31 2013 05:13 unigolyn wrote: Then I don't think you noticed the word "significant". Terran does have the unique position of being immune to build order losses in the early game. Unless you're doing something pants-on-head retarded, you can live through anything and not automatically die. No, I did. And I'd still vote for Terran. | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
The only reason a Terran dies is because the can't ID the Templar Transition until its too late. And in all honesty most Terrans suck with EMP. | ||
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halfaspider
United States31 Posts
On August 30 2013 16:22 MuMeise wrote: I think hots is pretty balanced. but it is like t>z>p>t t>z>p>t, even if its true, is not "balanced." t=z=p is balance | ||
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Galaktus
Germany33 Posts
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VArsovskiSC
Macedonia563 Posts
Think that instead of a poll of the caliber - which RACE you think is too strong, there rather should be a poll of the following: ==>> Which UNIT do you think is most broken.. ?? ==================================================================== Expectance TBH should be that the Widow-Mine be the winner in that regard with the VoidRay and Ultralisk, (and some votes from Protosses around for the Mutalisk) slightly lacking behind.. The problem though there is - the VoidRay will certainly win, cause nearly all Terrans have the "strictly designed" mindset (unless those who played the other races as well) that Protoss is OP, as well as some of the Zergs who have problems in ZvP on some maps losing hatches to Voids will vote for the unit too.., Also - expect that from the other 2 races there will be less "strictly distinct" judgement to the strong units of the other 2 races overall, cause they don't have clearly one matchup being dissatisfied of while taking a pride of having a winning edge over the other.. Ofcourse - don't blame the Terrans though TBH cause it's literally like hitting a brick-wall fighting Protoss late game.., But the BIG PROBLEM all will have is that ==> everyone, as well as Blizz - will overall end up getting the wrong picture of things.. Terran's weakness ins't in Protoss too strong, it's cause Terran can't play anything but bio in the matchup.. There are quite a few Terrans that tried to Mech me in TvP, and whenever I see that comming, I just add up like 2-3 Stargates and go for Voidrays chrono galore.. And even if that doesn't happen, say for example if after a hellbat/mine drop or sth Terran decides to go back to bio again, then I won't lose cause upgraded Voids are pretty good vs Marines too as long as the guy isn't bonjwa that plays against me.. And if he persists going mech but doesn't push really surgically perfect soon - then I just add a round of Tempests or 2 and he's again - even more screwed cause my army not that is just more mobile, but outranges his as well.. But let's be honest - the game would literally suck if Marines could kill all Stargate units (as if the VoidRay got a nerf), and the reason why there is a relatively shitty TvP meta is the fact that the very same problem exists on the other side - in the form that Colossus is killing all that comes out of the Barracks ==================================================================== I play random with tendention to like the Zerg the most, as well as tending to have best performances and most win percentage with Protoss cause of not being in a higher league.. However - apart of most of the Terrans around (assume a huuge number of them never ever played another race) I think that it's a Terran problem rather than Protoss problem that the TvP is a hard matchup.. ==================================================================== So - having that in mind - problem is that Terran can't quite combine mech/bio or go mech vs Protoss.. And even furhter - think that the abscence of strength in mech vs Protoss lies in the fact how the Widow-Mine works.. 40 seconds recharge-time, no significant position-keeping abilities, weak and if not even non-existant board-control for assisting the other mech units, just a fail across the board there.. Cause at the end - in a 200/200 situation Protoss can just wait like another 15 seconds before engaging the Terran mech army to gather up mineral bank and "sac" the first group of Zealots and replenish them with fresh new warped-in Zealots (with the Mines defused this time) and nearly run over Terran without even caring about the mines being a frozen supply for the Terran while fighting.. So - IMO - the MINE needs be changed IMMEDIATELY.. I really hate the fact that Blizz refuses to change that thing in result of a nerf vs Zerg and buff vs Protoss.. I really can't see that "Ignorance" from their side to see the problem and at least try/experiment for a good fix.. Instead we see like stupid things like Buffing the Ultra (I already from my ZvT wins can sweak like 70% of them were direct Ultra wins, maybe even 80%, or 90% - DIRECT ZvT wins cause of the Ultralisk.., as well as there are already a number of Terrans who'd and already did - insta-leave when the see a group of Ultralisks..  , and now they - who'd have thought --> decided to buff it further, lol)==================================================================== And TRUE that they really did a good job with seeing the increased Overseer's speed need in ZvT, which almost all agreed (Those Terrans who disagree are ignorrant by nature here, cause if anyone - it's Protoss who should complain about that change cause of not good DT harass late game).. Now - true that was a good change, but is by far not enough.. Not enough at all, and I dislike the fact that there might be a period following of acting like if it was.., and act like a "nominee" or sth for like next elections or sth because of one good thing as if balancing your own created game was some kind of politics.. Well - TRUE that it was a start, but in order for everyone to get the "whole package" and good spot - really think that Blizz should REALLY take a close look at the way how the mine works.. Personally TBH from my own point of view - apart from changing the mine, I honestly - in order to do it properly, don't see any other way..  | ||
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