EPTMany of the posts in this thread perfectly exemplify why top players really hate giving their opinions on issues like these.
I'm not going to offer my own viewpoint, but come on. At least TRY to discuss in a meaningful manner..
Which race is the strongest right now? - Page 20
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
Many of the posts in this thread perfectly exemplify why top players really hate giving their opinions on issues like these. I'm not going to offer my own viewpoint, but come on. At least TRY to discuss in a meaningful manner.. | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On March 18 2012 00:45 aicaramba wrote: How do you know for sure that terran players are better then protoss or zerg players? Explain me plz, because i dont know how you can compare players who play different races with eachother. How do you know its the players and not the race? (Im not trying to say terran is the strongest race) If you look at Korean Terran players, they all have extremely strong multitasking and control. This is why you see a lot of Korean Code S Terrans doing very well, and slightly less so for other races, and it's also different outside of Code S. | ||
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Spoogymcgee
Australia14 Posts
On March 18 2012 09:08 Paladia wrote: Terran, just too many safety mechanics. Zergling running past your army? No problem, just raise supply depot. Forgot to make detection? NP, just use scan. Forgot to use macro mechanic energy? NP, just throw down 10 mules at a time. Invested in too much static defense? NP, just use salvage. Lost all your workers? NP, just use mules. Afraid of losing your expansions? NP, just lift off or use PF. Can't scout? NP, just use scan. Don't want to invest in drops? NP, just use your medic. Can't macro? NP, all unit production can be queued. Still can't macro? NP, each production facility can make two units at a time. Terrible argument same thing could be said for each race. Personally all the races are quite balanced currently. However; I do not feel the same about the maps. I feel most people are forgetting about how bias some of the maps are to certain races. | ||
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MaTaAeRuKaNa
United States95 Posts
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
However since the game has evolved too, using the advantages of a map seems to be the strongest way to play. I don't think any race is in particular imbalanced, I play Zerg and I find it extremely strong if played well. The only reason the results for Zerg at least in Korea may be lower is the maps - The maps suit Terran (at least a fair few of them). Protoss has been getting a few better maps too, helping them even things out and actually take a lead statistics wise along with the metagame shift. Balance patches have gotten more and more minor and niche, so patches since the initial fungal change haven't really caused a drastic change across the board. I personally voted Protoss, simply because the style of Map being released along with the style of play that Protoss uses makes them scary and they will only get stronger in the coming months... i.e once more is understood about the solve-all style ZvP that is referred to as 'Stephano style' this could happen. I do not enjoy the word imbalance or anything implying it nowadays in SC2. Playing BW back in the day has simply made me a map hater :D | ||
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aicaramba
Netherlands110 Posts
On March 18 2012 15:16 Pokebunny wrote: If you look at Korean Terran players, they all have extremely strong multitasking and control. This is why you see a lot of Korean Code S Terrans doing very well, and slightly less so for other races, and it's also different outside of Code S. And how do you know its not race mechanics/units that allows for better multitasking? How do you know its not the units that 'allow' for better control? | ||
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GreenFate
France289 Posts
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Coopa826
Germany161 Posts
On March 18 2012 19:53 GreenFate wrote: I feel Zerg is the most powerful race overall, because of larvae system which makes you so flexible and allows macro mistakes. On the other hand, Terrans dominating code S may be due to the fact that stellar control makes your units much more powerful, that's why it only happens in code S ! The Zerg macro mechanic, you call it larvae system, does NOT allow macro mistakes. If you dont inject you have almost no units. Protoss can Chronoboost as many buildings as they want if they dont use chrono properly And i dont really have to talk about terran right? If they forget about their macro mechanic they get instantly rich by throwing 10 mules on one base or they have free detection and vision all over the map. Please never say zerg allows macro mistakes again -.- | ||
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S8on
United States11 Posts
Protoss does seem easy to play when compared to other races. It does a have a tendency to be called the "easy race" or the "1a race". I even surprise myself with what I can get away with sometimes. But until I see another Protoss win GSL or do more than win just 1 major, I will tend to believe there is something wrong with this race. Though if Protoss players continue to play as well as they are, I believe very soon my opinion will be changed. | ||
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Spoogymcgee
Australia14 Posts
On March 18 2012 17:36 Camlito wrote: The maps over time in SC2 have become what dictates results. Early on in the game Terran was legitimately imbalanced and so were the maps (although the style of play back then didn't really show how terrible the maps really were). The maps nowadays are much better and the reasons for a race having an advantage include 'hard to take 4th' or 'too easy to secure 3 bases'. This is much better than '1 second rush distance' or '2 second rush distance. However since the game has evolved too, using the advantages of a map seems to be the strongest way to play. I don't think any race is in particular imbalanced, I play Zerg and I find it extremely strong if played well. The only reason the results for Zerg at least in Korea may be lower is the maps - The maps suit Terran (at least a fair few of them). Protoss has been getting a few better maps too, helping them even things out and actually take a lead statistics wise along with the metagame shift. Balance patches have gotten more and more minor and niche, so patches since the initial fungal change haven't really caused a drastic change across the board. I personally voted Protoss, simply because the style of Map being released along with the style of play that Protoss uses makes them scary and they will only get stronger in the coming months... i.e once more is understood about the solve-all style ZvP that is referred to as 'Stephano style' this could happen. I do not enjoy the word imbalance or anything implying it nowadays in SC2. Playing BW back in the day has simply made me a map hater :D I love that line "reasons for a race having an advantage include 'hard to take 4th' or 'too easy to secure 3 bases". It is exactly what I've been decisioning with my friends. Protoss are probably the strongest on 3 bases (Correct me if I am wrong). Also one of the biggest shifts with the maps which have given protoss such an advantage is that the natural is easily defended and can always FFE without any repercussions compared to maps like Xel'Naga and Duel Sight where the natural is harder to defend and FFE isn't as safe to do every game. | ||
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GreenFate
France289 Posts
On March 18 2012 20:11 Coopa826 wrote: The Zerg macro mechanic, you call it larvae system, does NOT allow macro mistakes. If you dont inject you have almost no units. Protoss can Chronoboost as many buildings as they want if they dont use chrono properly And i dont really have to talk about terran right? If they forget about their macro mechanic they get instantly rich by throwing 10 mules on one base or they have free detection and vision all over the map. Please never say zerg allows macro mistakes again -.- ' If you dont inject you have almost no units.' Yeah I play zerg, so I actually noticed that ... But even at my low level (plat) I'm okay with injects (relatively to my level), and I feel it's much easier for a zerg to inject regularly than for a terran to make units regularly from different kind of buildings. Yeah the zerg also has to make units ... from one control group of hatch ... not the hardest thing in the world I think. | ||
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Panthae
Canada205 Posts
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Clbull
United Kingdom1439 Posts
TvP I feel like in this matchup, Protoss are super weak until they get Sentries then they become able to hold a lot of bio pushes. But it's when you see the colossus/storm mix that P turns from competing with Terran to overpowering them. Yes, Ghosts exist but they are pretty hard to control, especially when an Observer in the right place could easily deny any EMPs or Snipes headed towards your HTs. Additionally, the Snipe nerf has made chargelots harder to kill, as if they weren't hard enough to kill already. I mean a 150HP unit that is significantly more difficult to kite. I think the issue with Protoss in PvT is how overly powerful storm is. Then again, blame Blizzard more for this because they made a 55HP unit one of the terran's staple units whereas Protoss and Zerg have infantry units with much higher health. PvZ PvZ is complicated, but generally, Protoss doesn't have a whole lot that can let them deal with Brood Lords. Yes, they have air but those airborne units are very weak for their expense and often require a sweeping tech switch just to make it a game changer. For instance, the Phoenix, whilst costing 150 Minerals and 100 Gas is in reality kinda useless in the later game. Then there's the Void Ray, costing 250 Minerals and 150 Gas and often seen in cheese builds relying on the element of surprise to overwhelm your opponent. And then there's the Carrier and Mothership.... There's a reason why these units are rarely ever used... They're expensive, they take a long time to build and their effectiveness is questionable. Plus if the Protoss has air? Make more Corruptors. Not only does it let you keep air control but it lets you morph more Brood Lords later if you really want to. Yes, Stalkers can and have butchered Brood Lords before but who really wants to blink into a solid, biological wall of fungal growths, hydralisks and roaches anyway? ZvT Out of all the matchups, I feel ZvT is the most balanced right now. However, Tier 3 throws a lot of Terrans off guard and most of the things that would come from this tier are just ridficulously hard for Terran to deal with. You may remember a quote from Destiny saying "I only make Ultralisks when I'm really far ahead and want to lose", but in reality Stephano uses a lot of them in his play and somehow makes it succeed. Three ultras are very hard to deal with without like..... 10+ Marauders which you wouldn't even think of building in the mid game unless you scouted a mass roach strategy. They take up 2 supply instead of 1, attack slower than Terran units and their only forte is being able to pack a punch against armored units and slow anything non-Massive down. Now imagine a Zerg who went 12 Ultralisks and hits a timing where no marine tank medivac force could take it down? That's the ridiculousness of ZvT. Ghosts used to be the ideal late game unit because they could not only take down Brood Lords before they annihilate your army but could do the same towards Ultralisks, albeit needing more snipes. Now? Snipe feels a bit underpowered. | ||
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Supamang
United States2298 Posts
On March 18 2012 21:45 GreenFate wrote: ' If you dont inject you have almost no units.' Yeah I play zerg, so I actually noticed that ... But even at my low level (plat) I'm okay with injects (relatively to my level), and I feel it's much easier for a zerg to inject regularly than for a terran to make units regularly from different kind of buildings. Yeah the zerg also has to make units ... from one control group of hatch ... not the hardest thing in the world I think. To be fair you can have all production facilities for Terran on 1 control group too. I used to play Terran, its not hard to have your rax, factories, and ports in one group and just tab through it all. You can still watch the battlefield while doing that while as Zerg you have to flip your screen back to each hatchery to inject. Edit: Protoss also have to flip their screens to pylon power to put down gate units. With MULEs too, I think Terrans have more forgiving macro. Micro is where Terrans need to be strong. The risk is great but the reward for good micro is also huge | ||
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MakyIsME
France66 Posts
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ETisME
12889 Posts
Warp prism coupled with gateway mechanics have always been said to be unexplored and we are finally seeing how good it is now. I can't help but to think that it is going to be even strong when more synergies with strategy would be discovered | ||
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EmilA
Denmark4618 Posts
On March 18 2012 22:20 MakyIsME wrote: fast expand in pvt gets cancelled 2 out of 3 time whereas never the other way arround. Terran is the best race to secure a late game plan because of bunker and auto repear. Protoss have just good cheeses. So yes Terran is still the strongest race. Terran late game plan? If you mean getting rolled by collosi-storm-chargelots, losing your entire army while taking out ~15 zealots and being unable to reproduce anything while warpgates replenish immediatly, then sure. | ||
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AveranceEU
Germany23 Posts
If you think your own race is severely underpowered and another one is particularly strong, just switch to the stronger one and show everybody how good you really are instead of whining. | ||
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hoburame
Netherlands48 Posts
I even think alot of GM can't as well because they just dont know how the other races work. But I will say one thing. Terran has a versatility that no other race has, can fake standard openings and do cheesy build instead. Also, terran is very cheese proof compared to other races. Protoss are realy streamlined in their openings, current metagame or not i dont know about it. Protoss do have the stronger kind of maxed army. But good usage of ghosts is possible to conter this. ( good ghosts usage require good templar usage to counter, but terran has the edge, or the easier way if you prefer, here since ghosts are cloaked units ) Protoss versus zerg is quite strange, early protoss is very streamlined as well, but has the lategame andvantage with the different casters. Zerg is realy hard to get, cheese from terran comes in various ways, heavy hellion, double proxy rax etc. very safe for terran as well but very dangerous for zerg if the correct response is not given in time. I do not think this is unbalanced but I do think, as a stategist, terran has a realy important edge that the other races dont have in the same, simple and efficient way. ps: talking players that are at an even level of mastering their respective race. | ||
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Amoment
Germany175 Posts
SINCE BETA Terran is OP | ||
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