EPTWhich race is the strongest right now? - Page 22
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blue1008
Canada1 Post
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Slarkle
Australia2 Posts
On March 14 2012 12:50 Danger Boy wrote: Terran have to do to much to be effective, Protoss have little unit control to worry about... I disagree, a win or lose for protoss can often come down to 1 or 2 forcefields, making protoss micro extremely important. I also find it really amusing when Ts complain about 1a(ing) Protosses as if pressing click, s, click s with their ball of M&M makes them the authority on all things micro. I played a game recently where an opponent advised me of my disadvantageous heritage on my mothers side, advised me that I was a cleaner of some sort, and that I merely 1a(ed) to victory. I hope he watched the reply to find that I had multiple observers in position, waited til he was unseiged (to take his 3rd), proceeded to run all zealots into his marine ball, focus down all his tanks with my immortals, target down his medvacs with the stalkers while simultaneously dropping 4 zealots in his main. But he is probably right. All Protoss does is 1A. | ||
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frostalgia
United States178 Posts
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Luepert
United States1933 Posts
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RiPPy
Norway23 Posts
Toss is......... dunno where to begin. | ||
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Sea_Food
Finland1612 Posts
On March 19 2012 15:55 RiPPy wrote: Roughly 15.000 has voted Terran or Zerg. Which means almost 15.000 people not in touch with reality. No wonder there is war in the world when people cant even agree on the obvious. Toss is......... dunno where to begin. Yeah, real weird that all people dont agree that the race that has byfar the least high level tournament resoults is strongest. | ||
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Vul
United States685 Posts
Again, I'm not even a masters player yet so I'm really just venting and throwing my thoughts out there. IMO zerg simply needs another late game option in ZvP (crossing my fingers for ultras to be worth making one day). It seems to me that you have to go corruptor/BL to beat the colossus deathball (other than muta), but there's no real answer if they go for the archon toilet. I gave up on mutas in ZvP a few months ago because I couldn't seem to make it work generally, but I might switch back to that in order to go for base trades instead. Honestly I'm usually happy to get hit with a timing attack (typically against my third) because at least there are reliable ways to hold that. If I screw up defending my third, I have a very solid idea of how/why I lost. It's sad to be an aspiring macro zerg but dread the late game =/ The only thing that I actually like about ZvP is that the metagame right now lets you get a fast third in response to FFE in almost every game. It's great that the metagame has gotten to a point where you can get a third going before 26 food, although not being able to go hatch first is pretty annoying. Especially because the main worry is that Protoss will beat you with buildings, which I don't think is really a good thing for SC2--early pressure is entertaining because of the intense micro (ofc, if you only have a few units, losing just one of them can be a huge deal) but you can't micro buildings. It's not that I think it's imba, because there are ways to prevent it and I actually don't die to this stuff anymore because I use the overpool build (18 hatch variant). It's also not that I have a problem with being obligated to defend my FEs, I don't have any complaints against bunker rushes (and again I find these entirely beatable, as have most Zergs lately). I would just prefer that early pressure be unit-based because I think that makes for better, more interesting games as a player and spectator. Going back to the late game, one thing that has become effective for me is baneling dropping mineral patches once they get on 3+ bases. If you do a little distraction, usually works like a charm. The other thing that helps is that I never use banelings for any other reason in ZvP (for example, trying to carpet bomb their main army), so they usually aren't expecting the bane drops. I also don't show drop tech/ovie speed until I'm using it on their workers. If I can get that to work, then I can usually win just based on my economic lead after killing ~20 probes, such that I don't have to worry as much about trading efficiently. | ||
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Fizzy
Sweden388 Posts
Grandmaster average: P (58.0% win) T (60.4% win) Z (58.0% win) - Terran is strongest Master average: P (51.4% win) T (51.3% win) Z (51.2% win) - Protoss is strongest Unfortionatly you cant see win percentage below masters since the ladders doesnt show amount of losses from diamond and down. Diamond average: P (208 points) T (210 points) Z (209 points) - Terran is strongest Platinum average: P (168 points) T (164 poitns) Z (177 points) - Zerg is strongest Gold average: P (151 points) T (147 points) Z (166 points) - Zerg is strongest Silver average: P (156 points) T (149 points) Z (170 points) - Zerg is strongest Bronze average: P (174 points) T (166 points) Z (181 points) - Zerg is strongest Total of Protoss being stronger in 1 league, Terran in 2 and Zerg in 4. Zerg dominating the 4 lowest leagues and terran leading 2 of the top 3. You might think these statistics doesnt show much since there is different race distribution making some races get more wins or more points.. atleast so i thought but then i noticed that: - Protoss has the most players in Grandmaster but not the highest win% - Zerg has way more players than Terran in Master but still 1% less wins - Zerg has the most players in Diamond but Terran has higher average points - Protoss has 140k more players than Zerg and Terran has 60k more players than Zerg in Silver, but still Zerg has way more average points - Terran has almost double the amount of Zerg players and Protoss has 1/3 more players than Zerg in Bronze and still Zerg has way more average points With this said i would like to point out the following flaws in earlier statements: - Zerg is not harder than any other race since its obviously the best race in all low-skill leagues. - Protoss is not more imba than Zerg and Terran in higher skilled games since they share the same win percentage as Zerg and has less than Terran in the GM league. source: http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all To further elaborate on my last statement - here are some more facts: - Protoss has 2 gold medals, 2 silver medals and 7 3-4place medals in GSL - Zerg has 5 gold medals, 2 silver medals and 3 3-4place medals in GSL - Terran has 6 gold medals, 8 silvermedals and 17 3-4place medals in GSL - Terran is the only race to have a mirror match in a GSL final - Zerg is the only race not to have more than 1 player in top 4... ever - Terran has always had the most players in code S - PvT stats were 172-230 in favor of Terran in GSL at 8/12/11 (has not been updated since then) - PvZ stats were 123-131 in favor of Zerg in GSL at 8/12/11 (has not been updated since then) - TvZ stats were 214-211 in favor of Terran in GSL at 8/12/11 (has not been updated since then) Sources: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/GOMTV_Global_Starcraft_II_League , http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/GOMTV_Global_Starcraft_II_League/Statistics And now everyone thinks that "hey the poll is about what race is most imba at the moment"... well look at these results of 2012 major tournaments: - Lone Star Clash - Winner: Stephano (Z), Runner-up: Polt (T) - FXOpen Invitational Series #5 - Winner: DongRaeGu (Z), Runner-up: MarineKing (T) - The SHOUTcraft Invitational #4 - Winner: Stephano (Z), Runner-up: Thorzain (T) - AoL: The King of Kongs - WInner: DongRaeGu (Z), Runner-up LosirA (Z) - IEM Season VI World Championship - Winner: MC (P), Runner-up Puma (T) - MLG Winter Arena - Winner: MarineKing (T), Runner-up: DongRaeGu (Z) - Assembly Winter - Winner: Polt (T), Runner-up: Stephano (Z) - IEM Season VI Global Challenge Sao Paolo - Winner: viOLet (Z), Runner-up: SuperNoVa (T) - IEM Season VI Global Challenge Kiev - Winner: MMA (T), Runner-up: DIMAGA (Z) - 2012 GSL Season 1 - Winner: DongRaeGu (Z), Runner-up: Genius (P) - HomeStory Cup IV - Winner: MC (P), Runner-up: Sound (T) Which puts us at: - Zerg has 6 wins and 4 second places in major events so far in 2012 - Terran has 3 wins and 6 second places in major events so far in 2012 - Protoss has 2 wins and 1 second place in major events so far in 2012 Sources: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments , http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Major_Tournaments ----- Anyhow statistics are just statistics and there are lots of variables which cant be included in calculations.. such as which race has the most skilled players, which race practises the most etc. - all i wanted to do was put some stats out there to make you think twice before you state such things as "zerg is the hardest race to play" or "ofc protoss is gonna be voted highest since they have the most players." But i decided to vote for Zerg as the strongest race atm since i hate playing against them on the ladder, they win the most tournaments right now and seem to be the easiest race to play atm since they dominate all low-leagues. | ||
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Chr15t
Denmark1103 Posts
On March 19 2012 16:54 Sea_Food wrote: Yeah, real weird that all people dont agree that the race that has byfar the least high level tournament resoults is strongest. You are talking results inside Korea. Outside Korea the picture is different | ||
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Chr15t
Denmark1103 Posts
On March 19 2012 17:41 Fizzy wrote: - Terran is the only race to have a mirror match in a GSL final Wrong . Losira vs Nestea | ||
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ReboundEU
508 Posts
............................these are interesting numbers :D | ||
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LiteCore
Canada21 Posts
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JazzNL
182 Posts
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porsh0
1 Post
Terran had been nerfed so many times while protoss got cruical buff with cheaper upgrades which are now IMHO scaling PvT in P favor. On the other hand Protoss hasnt won GSL in a year now, how come they are strongest? Thats nonsense. P may be favored in PvT, while in PvZ, Zerg is obviusly stronger race from statistics. Zerg > Protoss. TvZ- no comment. | ||
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Maynarde
Australia1286 Posts
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VanBuKK
Germany6 Posts
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Maynarde
Australia1286 Posts
On March 19 2012 21:27 VanBuKK wrote: lol guys, its Starcraft....dont talk about micro because,,,,no micro needed in this game ;D Whut lol | ||
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VanBuKK
Germany6 Posts
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Tropical Bob
United States127 Posts
On March 19 2012 17:41 Fizzy wrote: - Terran is the only race to have a mirror match in a GSL final - Zerg is the only race not to have more than 1 player in top 4... ever ZvZ finals in GSL July, invalidating these two points. Of course, that was because most of the Terrans were off elsewhere tearing everything up. | ||
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RaiD.RaynoR
United States294 Posts
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