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On February 17 2012 07:35 DwD wrote:
I think the way to go is the GSL way, always provide a free stream(Isn't this required by Blizzard anyway to get a tournament license?)
Yeah i think so: http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/videopolicy.html
Limitation of Usage
Neither you nor the operator of any website where your Production(s) may be viewed can force a viewer to pay a "fee" to be able to view your Production(s).
Regarding Websites and "Premium Access"
We understand that many third party websites have a "free" method to see their video content, as well as a 'premium' membership service that allows for speedier viewing.
For clarity, please note that as long as the website that hosts your Production provides a free method to allow viewers to see the Production, Blizzard Entertainment will not object to your Production being hosted on that site, regardless of the site's "for pay" premium service plans.
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I only think its acceptable if the funding received gets put back into the event to enhance the overall quality of presentation. This means always getting the best casters, among other things. Offering an exceptional prize structure would go a long way towards building the event too. Anyone who thinks its ridiculous needs to be aware of how the world works. If it stays free, expect the quality to not get much better than it is now.
Advertisements can only go so far.
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On February 17 2012 12:41 Nibirue wrote:
I only think its acceptable if the funding received gets put back into the event to enhance the overall quality of presentation. This means always getting the best casters, among other things. Offering an exceptional prize structure would go a long way towards building the event too. Anyone who thinks its ridiculous needs to be aware of how the world works. If it stays free, expect the quality to not get much better than it is now.
Advertisements can only go so far.
How the world also works is: if the targeted audience thinks that it is ridiculous and thus will not pay for it, then it is a bad business model or bad marketing at best- however "misinformed" the audience is.
Expecting people to pay for what they will possibly want in the future (higher quality MLG) is not how the world works (unless you have good marketing, of course, in which case you'll sell just about anything). It is MLG's responsibility to raise the quality of their product or the capitals necessary to accomplish this. Consumers have every reason to say no to shouldering this responsibility of minimizing the risks a business must take.
Competition tends to sort itself out (eSports brands), and in the end the value of MLG's product is determined by the consumers, not MLG. Personally, I support eSports by donating to small business owners like Day[9], helping them generate revenue through streams, and buying tickets to the high quality GSL. 20$ on a single new MLG event is not a product I'm interested in compared to those offered by its competitors.
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Not that I am swimming in cash or anything, but I am surprised how many people think it is too expensive. What else can you do for entertainment all weekend for $20? Seriously, I cant think of anything (other than sitting at home and watching tv) that is cheaper. $20 for a weekends worth of entertainment is a really good deal.
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I feel like Team Liquid should reset this poll and see if people have changed their answer after listening to Sundance on Live On Three.
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It's funny how everyone that agrees is from United States, sorry guys but not everyone has salaries of thousands of $, in my country a doctor makes 1k and that's alot, so for Europe in general 20$ IS ALOT and I don't mind paying for GSL but this is a rip-off, not to mention you can watch gsl free sq live. So please next time you brag that 20$ for you is nothing think that not only people like you are huge starcraft fans.
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277 Posts
I find this to be a classic case of American delusion of grandeur. They know that there is a better quality product elsewhere but they still consider theirs to be greater and more valuable. If it didn't work when they actually had a somewhat quality product (late 1960 - early 1970 muscle cars) then MLG is doomed.
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This is just a bad idea. The community is too small to be pay only. By making it pay only less people will end up watching it -> less people will watch the next one etc. Gsl can pull this off because the absolute best in the world play there. I love mlg but I dont think it's the same skill level, so I watch it for fun and not to see any brilliant new builds that I can steal. Ergo I'd rather play sc than pay to watch people I don't even consider to be world class, the few matches I do absolutely want to see aren't worth 20 bucks.
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I don't mind them trying; it is their product afterall. The handling of the gold membership could have been better though. Still I am not paying 20$ for a weekend of watching SC2.
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On February 17 2012 02:40 Taiidan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 23:21 FuFighter wrote:On February 16 2012 22:54 Krogan wrote:
Btw I am not exactly sure how PPV works as we don't have it in Sweden but is this the same kind of PPV that the UFC does? Yes, it is. You have to pay just to watch a special event (in this case the Winter Arena) compared to paying for a whole season (e.g. GSL season or MLG goldmembership). If you don't pay for it you cannot watch it at all since there is no freestream whatsoever. I know everybody wants eSports to grow and all that but I'm not sure anymore. If PPV is the future of eSports I can not and will not pay for it as I think PPV is a very bad business model. I like the idea of having a low quality stream with ads for free and paying if you want an HD stream without commercials (it feels more like a donnation). I am also fine with paying for a whole season of for example GSL (which you can watch for free (in low quality) if you watch it live btw). If this is the future of eSports however I will probably only watch GSL and that's it because I can't afford more/maybe could afford more but don't want to spend more money on watching other guys play SC2. Of course it's a question of personal taste: do you prefer GSL or MLG, do you prefer a league system or a one weekend tournament etc. but for me it would be a league and it would be the best of the best (players and casteres wise) which at the moment is GSL. Call me cheap, immature or not passionate for esports but that's just how it is. I'd much rather follow the live streams of my favourite player (which hopefully will still be for free) and check out their results on liquipedia than spending my money every weekend to watch a tournament. That being sad: I understand the idea of trying to make money off of SC2 and I'm not mad at MLG or anything because I don't feel like I'm entitled to anything. It would just make me sad if that was the future of eSports because I much rather spend my money on T-Shirts and tickets to actually watch a tournament live in person (and I did both of it several times before btw) than ever spending money on a PPV. It's the complete opposite! PPV hinders the growth of eSports. PPV = less viewers = less exposure = bad for eSports. All this does is give them short term money over long term growth, which is an aweful trade-off. If they actually stick it out with a free service supported by ads and sponsors the viewer count will continue to grow and eventually end up being more of a profit. And if you actually look at history, when a certain thing gets enough exposure, the big name sponsors notice and start to roll in, and that's when everythign explodes. These events will make tons of profit. Why do you think all major sports are not PPV? If at least they had a low quality stream for free that would be half as bad. It's bad for viewers, and even bad for long term profits, so it's honestly just a greedy move on their part and I flat out hate it. Ultimitely PPV is bad for eSports, period.
I think we can only speculate how eSport will develop with PPV in the future. In my opinion, the only thing we can agree on is the fact that we and probably many other people will not be watching MLG. that doesnt sound good to me at all.
I think FuFighter pretty much nailed it. We as a fan base should also contribute to the development of eSports, (e.g. by buying a season ticket or products of the sponsors, visiting a live event, writing on team liquid etc.). Personally, i am using razer products, have a GSL Season Ticket etc. But the important thing is that it felt like a donation. I didnt contribute to it because I had to, but because I wanted to. If we want to compare eSports to the big sports like football, basketball, soccer (in europe) and we want a similiar succes for eSports, then we have to keep in mind that the secret behind the success is the free availability of afore mentioned sports. For a major part of the population these sports have become not only a sport, but also a tradition, an important thing to watch. That can and will never be true for eSports if we limit the fan / viewer base due to a restraint to pay for it. eSport should not become an exclusive golf Club.
Last but not least I want to clarify that I really appreciate the hard work organisations like MLG put into the development of eSports and that I am as above mentioned willing to support eSport by myself. But not by paying for every tournament.
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All what i can do for MLG is off adblock plus =D. No to PPV, Yes to Advertisment.
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A PPV model would've caused BW to fail in Korea years ago back when it started, yet it managed to survive and thrive over the last ten years with a free streaming model.The most popular sports in the world are not PPV either but their broadcast are included in a universal tv package. An universal ticket plan is what the industry should aim for if they remain incapable of being sustained by commercial sponsorship such as the Korea model.
There is no way that this kind of model would work in Asia, especially due to the targeted demography and the economical situation of most normal middle-class income families. Nobody will ever buy a PPV plan in China, Korea or Taiwan. Cable TV channel packages yes, we already have this in Korea( dedicated OGN channel) and Taiwan(as a seasonal weekend show), perhaps this is the direction that Western tournaments should look at if they are struggling that much.
It's silly that the very first ticket price isn't $10, I highly doubt they could make that much more money (if any at all) with a $20 dollar ticket. I am sure MLG already know this so we'll see what happens in the tournament after this upcoming one.
The BW legacy set the foundation of the SC2 fanbase we have today, we wouldn't be here to if not due to the free VODs and free streams that OGN and MBC didn't mind distributed among foreigner fans.
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The PPV system is (a little bit) overexaggerated... It's like with the head through the stone-wall.
There are so many events, even the most popular one, the gsl.. isn't that expensive and it's for almost a whole month.
It's a great event, many will want to see it and so I anticipate more income with lower prices. Realy.. I don't get this greed.
Agree with @bubblegumbo
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I find it okay if a company wants money for the stuff if offers. But there are so many other high quality tournaments and streams that it does not matter to me.
I did not follow the MLG on a very regular basis, so I don't mind that much. That's why I voted for "I don't mind them trying, but I won't pay". Last time I tuned in randomly, this time I won't.
Besides, I also agree with bubblegumbo
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The cheapest gsl ticket you can get costs $15 and that is for a hole season which is about 2 months. I don't understand how MLG can expect people to pay $20 for a weekend of games.. that is just plain dumb.
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4222+ 3545 = 7767 x $20 = $155,340
That sounds reasonable to me, considering all the money they are putting in to pay for players.
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On February 17 2012 23:40 Slardar wrote:
4222+ 3545 = 7767 x $20 = $155,340
That sounds reasonable to me, considering all the money they are putting in to pay for players.
You are not factoring in the money which they get from advertisements, which is paid (indirectly but nonthetheless paid) by the spectators, no tournament is EVER free to watch. The other tournaments seems to be able to make do without PPV, why should we have to pay for MLG?
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On February 17 2012 23:38 Phays wrote:
The cheapest gsl ticket you can get costs $15 and that is for a whole season which is about 2 months. I don't understand how MLG can expect people to pay $20 for a weekend of games.. that is just plain dumb.
Agreed, I'm not against paying however the quantity and quality of the GSL is invariably better for a lower fee. The players are better (with the exception of a few jet lagged code s players who fly out). They're also well rested and well prepared. ST_Legend's observing makes up for the casters shortcomings more often than not and now you can have Korean commentary now for code A VODs, so even if like me you don't understand you can hear someone get genuinely excited about the game instead of ranting on about how they think something is "bad" in the irritating tradition of most foreign casters.
I honestly don't understand why MLG is considered the flagship event. Generally only a fraction of the games ever get cast while we watch the crowd mill about and some bad rock music 80% of the time, IPL had vastly better production, GSL has the better play, Homestory had tonnes of heart and far better technical commentary from the players (and often far funnier, MKP and MC were amazing).
It looks like it'll do well regardless as it's one of those things that's popular despite itself but MLG needs to improve a whole lot to get my money.
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No problem paying 20 USD for a couple of days when the BEST PLAYERS are there. They are and then I will pay.
20 USD - same as going to the movies, really nothing.
Final sunday I will spend at a barcraft, there I will probably spend some 50-60 USD on food and beers.
GSL is supercheap, I am sure they will do same next season, to force everyone to pay and give up free viewing.
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On February 18 2012 01:01 blackwolf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 23:40 Slardar wrote:
4222+ 3545 = 7767 x $20 = $155,340
That sounds reasonable to me, considering all the money they are putting in to pay for players. You are not factoring in the money which they get from advertisements, which is paid (indirectly but nonthetheless paid) by the spectators, no tournament is EVER free to watch. The other tournaments seems to be able to make do without PPV, why should we have to pay for MLG?
Growth man, how do you expect the prize pools to increase, how do you expect the amount of tournaments to increase? They probably make a decent sum, don't get me wrong, but is that enough to keep making this a viable business structure?
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EPT
