EPTHow do you feel about MLG's new PPV model?
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QuasarStarcraft
United States46 Posts
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VIPlol
United States43 Posts
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NOOBALOPSE
Canada802 Posts
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ydeer1993
United Kingdom569 Posts
On February 15 2012 07:53 VIPlol wrote: I feel like most people in this community wants everything to be handed out free to 'em :S most people in this community dont want to be ripped off either, compared to GSL this ticket way to much, I wont be paying , wish i could watch but not paying $20, they should of just gone with $10 to watch HQ and SQ free!  would pull in prob 3x the viewers | ||
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NexaS
United States202 Posts
On February 15 2012 07:53 VIPlol wrote: I feel like most people in this community wants everything to be handed out free to 'em :S By "this community", you mean the internet, right? | ||
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jax1492
United States1632 Posts
On February 15 2012 07:53 VIPlol wrote: I feel like most people in this community wants everything to be handed out free to 'em :S Lets put it this way, its been free so people expect it to be free ... i would pay for a season pass for all events but not for just one. | ||
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eXigent.
Canada2419 Posts
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ZerguufOu
United States107 Posts
On February 15 2012 07:53 VIPlol wrote: I feel like most people in this community wants everything to be handed out free to 'em :S not free but reasonable compared to its competitors would be nice. GSL season ticket is 15 bucks and you get 2 months worth of content of the best players in the world along with the greatest castesr in the world (tastetosis). Compare that to 20 bucks MLG is asking for over a 3 day period from casters yet unannounced is too much. 20 bucks in and of it self isnt too much, but compared to other starcraft events it is. | ||
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ClysmiC
United States2192 Posts
On February 15 2012 08:09 eXigent. wrote: man there seems to be such an uproar about shelling out a measly $20. I can make that in less than an hour at work...why are people soo thrifty? I guarantee 99% of you have spent $20 on something alot stupider than a MLG ticket. Does that mean you should spend $20 on everything that isn't as stupid as your stupidest purchase? A one time 20 dollar fee is nothing, you're right. No one would complain about that. But if people are so relaxed with their money that they'll pitch out 20 bucks every time an MLG rolls around, they'll probably pay $75 a year for GSL, maybe get HQ for NASL. That's over 200 dollars, and this is just the BEGINNING of what I fear is about to become a dangerous trend in Starcraft tournaments. It's not like it's a one-and-done 20 dollars. | ||
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trashman
United States113 Posts
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setzer
United States3284 Posts
On February 15 2012 07:53 VIPlol wrote: I feel like most people in this community wants everything to be handed out free to 'em :S Or, people here actually know what the value of their dollar is and feel what MLG is offering isn't worth the price they are setting when you have GSL producing more content for less. | ||
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shell
Portugal2722 Posts
The thing is with 2 months of GSL is worth $10 or 7€, how do they think $20 is the right price for 3 days of SC2 that i can't even see live because of timezones. I don't mind PPV i do it with GSL, NASL and IPL but they don't charge $20 for 3 days of SC2... Plus i don't have any MLG subscription but GOLD and SILVER members should have discount, it's not fair and another bad move. I would pay $10 for this but I will never pay $20 just because you have idra, nestea and mvp.. it's not a good or even fair price | ||
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Sprouter
United States1724 Posts
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MrMotionPicture
United States4327 Posts
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Skelephile
United States64 Posts
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Cush
United States646 Posts
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MessiaHwoo
Canada1 Post
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red4ce
United States7313 Posts
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nakedsurfer
Canada500 Posts
On February 15 2012 10:15 red4ce wrote: MLG wants to turn esports into big business? Fine, I'll evaluate my purchasing decision the same way I do in real life. MLG has one competitor which offers more and superior content at the same price and another competitor which offers a slightly inferior product for free. Guess which one I'm not choosing. Exactly this. Why would they attempt this when another tournamnet is runnning at the same time? If anything, people who may have payed if it was the only high class tournament going on(besides GSL) won't now since ASUS will be going on. Especially since they started at a steep price on a system(their arena thing) we havnt seen yet. | ||
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Love and Justice
United States87 Posts
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soujiro_
Uruguay5195 Posts
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Corsica
Ukraine1854 Posts
=2520 thats only 126 ppl, i guess they just hungry for money, so even if small amount (say 5000) will buy this ticket then they have 5000*20 =100,000 in revenue which is nice... Standard capitalistic nature for love of money i guess  | ||
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Corsica
Ukraine1854 Posts
On February 15 2012 12:26 soujiro_ wrote: awesome idea, hope more events do the same are you fckn seriuos?????????? | ||
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DarkMatterUK
United Kingdom33 Posts
Theres less quantity than GSL (games-wise and potentially player wise) Theres a better atmosphere at IPL (live crowd is gone) It costs more than Assembly (the same weekend) So whilst I can understand the need for MLG to make money from these events which are undoubtedly expensive to run. Theres the risk of Losing SO many fans who have been dedicated to watching MLG events in the past and unfortunately I do feel this could be construed as damaging for e-sports (im not saying it is) but if you think about it, YES - MLG will make more money from just 5,000 people paying than from non-paying 60,000. But, as a promoter, advertising your event with the estimated online (LIVE) audience of 5,000 is much less appealing as an event pulling in 60,000-70,000 viewers. Thats my view though, and from forums it seems to be the general feedback, but who knows, people may pay! Buuuut.,, it could bomb pretty bad, but this is a new season, new ideas, and a new venture for e-sports, if it works and it proves viable to make a substantial profit (if any) from an event like MLG then that could prove incredible for the scene, even if it did ruffle some fans feathers | ||
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TheSubtleArt
Canada2527 Posts
On February 15 2012 08:09 eXigent. wrote: man there seems to be such an uproar about shelling out a measly $20. I can make that in less than an hour at work...why are people soo thrifty? I guarantee 99% of you have spent $20 on something alot stupider than a MLG ticket. Cause not every makes $20 in less than an hour? I'm a first year uni student still looking for my first job and thinking of taking a student loan to move out soon...definitely not gonna cough up $20 for a weekend event when there's equally good content out there for free... | ||
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Corsica
Ukraine1854 Posts
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
then, they announce a relatively expensive PPV for one tournament soon after. absurd PR moves. i will pay if i am actually going to be able to watch it (i.e., at home), but less than happy about it. could have handled the situation better. at the end of the day though, i pay more for dinner with my g/f, so $20 is not that big of a deal. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On February 15 2012 13:03 Corsica wrote: only 10 % will pay...thats 64+62 = x * 20 =2520 thats only 126 ppl, i guess they just hungry for money, so even if small amount (say 5000) will buy this ticket then they have 5000*20 =100,000 in revenue which is nice... Standard capitalistic nature for love of money i guess shame on a business to try and make money off its product. mlg started out small with sc2 and has invested a lot of money into making it a bigger and better tournament. they should be able to profit off their investment. the market will determine whether it is successful. | ||
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Havik_
United States5585 Posts
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starslayer
United States696 Posts
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Stipulation
United States587 Posts
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
Why is there no 'PPV sucks' option? | ||
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havox_
Germany442 Posts
On February 15 2012 10:15 red4ce wrote: MLG wants to turn esports into big business? Fine, I'll evaluate my purchasing decision the same way I do in real life. MLG has one competitor which offers more and superior content at the same price and another competitor which offers a slightly inferior product for free. Guess which one I'm not choosing. this, so true. although i dont mind them trying. its their event, their money. but i will for sure not pay 20 bucks a weekend - even though there are obviously many other things for which i would even pay $20 per hour. but red4ce is absolutely right - doesnt make economical sense to pay for it. | ||
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y0su
Finland7871 Posts
On February 15 2012 16:19 havox_ wrote: this, so true. although i dont mind them trying. its their event, their money. but i will for sure not pay 20 bucks a weekend - even though there are obviously many other things for which i would even pay $20 per hour. but red4ce is absolutely right - doesnt make economical sense to pay for it. Although I also agree with the reasons I will not make the purchase, I do think that for a lot of NA fans having an event in your time zone makes a big difference in value. I think MLG is banking on that (as well as premium pass sales). I wouldn't be surprised if this is a success and I worry that other events will do the same. | ||
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Titan_Ansiminus
United States27 Posts
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taitanik
Latvia231 Posts
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Arikast
United States2 Posts
In general I don't have a problem with them charging extra for the weekend because of how much they are putting out to make this thing happen (player travel, event organizing, etc) but, as others have said, $20 is simply too much at this point in SC2 history. Considering how high the quality is likely to be, I would be ok with $10. There absolutely should, however, be either a discount for current MLG subscribers or a Platinum subscription that costs a tad bit more but also includes all of the arenas in addition to the Gold subscription content. MLG is first and foremost a business. That means they exist to make money. That also means they should be careful in what they charge for their services considering the youth of the community they are selling their service to. Yes, the SC2 tourney system stands on the shoulders of BW, but a huge portion of the SC2 community has just come onto the scene because of SC2 and SC2 alone. It is a tribute to the community that we are able to support so many excellent tournaments and LANs and not have them fail left and right from lack of funds. Those companies have to realize they need to be careful with such a fledgling community, however. More and more people are coming onto the SC2 scene but the more money overall they have to spend to do so, the less likely new people will want to shell out the cash to do so. Now you might say: "Well, if someone is scared of paying 20 bucks to see the arena, they have plenty of other options." That has never been more true than now. People have plenty of options and most of them have a free option for a lower quality experience. Let me make the case for MLG in the US (as I can't speak for our European friends). I put forward the case that thousands upon thousands who wouldn't even consider watching someone play a video game online, much less pay for it, have at least heard of MLG. One day they hear about SC2 from someone they know and think "Huh, that sounds pretty cool." They look it up online and lo and behold they find TL. They open up the page and are immediately overwhelmed by all the information about IEM, GSL, IPL, MLG, Assembly, Dreamhack, etc. They don't quite understand why people outside Korea are called foreigners but they do "know" they don't understand Korean so the GSL isn't going to be for them (they don't know anything about GOM at this point). Hey! They have heard about MLG, though, so they decide to stick with something familiar. They may not know much about MLG, but at least they've heard of it. They go over to the right side of the MLG front page, click on the tourney link, click on SC2, see that they have to pay 20 bucks for something they know nothing about for 3 days worth of content and close out the webpage. As a business, of course MLG is going to push stuff like this. Unless a new person has someone walking them through where to go and what to do, however, someone new to the system is not going to know about VODs and things like the Day9 daily which are completely free. They aren't going to know that most tournaments offer free streams that are lower quality. They are only going to see the $20 price tag for 3 days, and like many of us, think it is too much. Unlike us, they aren't going to stick around to find out more and be active in the community, they are simply going to click the X in the top right-hand corner of their screen and go about their day. Whenever they hear about SC2, they'll think about the price and move on. MLG is not doing anything wrong in this. In 2-5 years that will probably be the norm. The community is simply not yet at that point. As they completely understand their role in the community, they need to watch how they present themselves in situations like this one. I'm sure they'll come out with a statement on it, but they obviously have some thinking to do. | ||
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Cronusd
Finland19 Posts
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
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short
Sweden148 Posts
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qwertzi
111 Posts
But $20 for a weekend feels just like a lot! Furthermore, why $20 when there such huge potential for ad revenue? If remember correctly from the "official" twitch.tv explanation (which I cannot find right now) the ad revenue is between $5-10 for 1k unique viewers. Most big sc2 events have like 40kish viewers. Lets take the middle road for ad revenue $7.5. That adds up to $300 per ad. I believe you can run at least 500 ads! Which would be $150000. For every best of 3 broadcasted, the can be at least 1 commercial before and right after every game. And then a couple between every set. Which isnt a lot for free content. Taking that into account the offer for ad free content should be cheaper... but well thats just me... | ||
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Laplaces_imp
368 Posts
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how
United States538 Posts
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JayIsImbA
Germany54 Posts
 Jokes aside, I think it's a bit too much for just one tournament. | ||
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Dezire
Netherlands640 Posts
i think we don't know it yet and we cant see it yet, but sundance is making a big step towards that goal. and in my opinion if theres someone we could leave our beloved sc2 too, to manage this game into the big open hard world of business, it will be sundance. so eventho im very sad that i wont be able to watch mlg simply cuz i cant afford it atm. i think sometime we will see that this was the right choice by mlg. | ||
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Diab
Denmark320 Posts
I won't be able to watch it anyway so not to bothered by this.. | ||
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Qbyx
Romania210 Posts
On February 15 2012 08:09 eXigent. wrote: man there seems to be such an uproar about shelling out a measly $20. I can make that in less than an hour at work...why are people soo thrifty? I guarantee 99% of you have spent $20 on something alot stupider than a MLG ticket. It's too bad most people here is hardly making 20$ a day. | ||
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Mr Showtime
United States1353 Posts
On February 15 2012 08:01 NexaS wrote: By "this community", you mean the internet, right? Well the community exists within the internet........ so what are you saying exactly? | ||
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Mr Showtime
United States1353 Posts
"Don't fuck it up" - JP McDaniel | ||
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Kompicek
Czech Republic245 Posts
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sotaporo
Finland195 Posts
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inermis
353 Posts
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Ohjay
Germany83 Posts
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iiGreetings
Canada563 Posts
On February 15 2012 11:24 Love and Justice wrote: If I pay for the MLG PPV will there still be commercials? Count on it lol | ||
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D4V3Z02
Germany693 Posts
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D4V3Z02
Germany693 Posts
On February 15 2012 22:19 Mr Showtime wrote: Well the community exists within the internet........ so what are you saying exactly? I think he means that "this community" could be meant TL and there are more ppl watching mlg than just TL. | ||
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Atlan___
Germany38 Posts
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Orpheus1982
Germany2 Posts
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Mr.Sn0w
2 Posts
What the hell? I hope that this Arena is an exception. If not I will never gonna pay to MLG again. | ||
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Garoodah
United States56 Posts
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Golbat
United States499 Posts
I would, however, be happy to shell out 10 dollars every 3 months (I think that's what they said, but it might be slightly more often) to watch 3 days of awesome SC2 action. I do think that all the people saying things like "So dumb lol its not the UFC. what sports are PPV other then Boxing UFC which is switching to free and WWE all fighting not gonna work out well for mlg" need to think a little bit harder about what they're saying before they say it. We don't know what the MLG Winter Arena is going to be like. It could be complete shit and a waste of 20 bucks, where everyone just probe rushes every game naniwa style. OR, it could be an orgasmic wonderland of starcraft entertainment, where you have to change your pants every 5 minutes or else they get glued to you, and completely worth 20 dollars. The people who are purchasing the PPV ticket (not me though, wtf is money even?) are taking a risk, and for our collective sakes, I hope it turns out to be a good investment. | ||
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Saig0n
United States100 Posts
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sVnteen
Germany2238 Posts
losing 70 percent of their viewers and no ads.... really bad idea imo i think if they would have made it like 10 dollars at least half of those who wont buy now would buy | ||
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RAGEMOAR The Pope
United States216 Posts
I know I'd be glad to fill out a 30 second - 3 minute survey for redbull / whoever to watch MLG without paying. | ||
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mx.raaawwwr
17 Posts
Just hoping Sundance has anything reasonable to say on Live on 3. | ||
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WhiteWOR
27 Posts
NOTICE: a big part of the viewers are not old enough to pay online and will have to ask their parents. For every event, every league.. | ||
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whereismymind
United Kingdom717 Posts
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cTrFray
Sweden13 Posts
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iamcaustic
Canada1509 Posts
On February 16 2012 03:03 WhiteWOR wrote: People saying "seems like the community want everything for free" needs to realize that when it comes to TV you pay a set amount of money per month and then get everything. It should be the same for the sc2 leagues. Nobody really knows what you will need to pay and how much in 2012. If you need to pay for MLG, gsl, IPL, NASL etc etc etc and all of these leagues have the same payment. It will be alot of money for the consumers. NOTICE: a big part of the viewers are not old enough to pay online and will have to ask their parents. For every event, every league.. No, with TV you pay a set amount based on which channel packages you subscribe to, and then there are PPV events you can purchase on top of that. In that regard, the SC2 scene doesn't look much different from regular TV right now; GOMTV has their monthly/yearly subscriptions (consider them a TV channel -- which they actually are in Asia) while MLG Arenas are PPV events. I take it you're not the one who handles the finances in your household. EDIT: I'd also like to think that MLG is not trying to target people with no disposable income of their own (e.g. kids who would have to ask their parents to purchase things online). Why would you go after a market that cannot provide revenue? There's nothing there for a business except for bankruptcy. MLG's gambit here is determining exactly how large the actual, revenue-generating esports market is, which in turn will tell them if MLG is actually capable of generating a profit, or if they should call it a day. If 2011 was about gauging interest in esports, 2012 is about gauging its financial viability. | ||
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lessQQmorePEWPEW
Jamaica921 Posts
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Deerminator
Canada3 Posts
On February 16 2012 01:14 Garoodah wrote: I think MLG is trying to make esports into a larger market far too quickly. For GSL quality-like content involving GSL quality-like players... I don't see how it can be free. Perhaps the steep is a bit high at first, but I think an interesting business model for tournaments must be established. I paid for the full GSL season for the first time this year and i'm still amazed about the quality of the casts. We, in Canada, have to pay to watch boxing or UFC events (at least cableTV). I would gladly do the same for an e-sport event. Plus, you can still join a barCraft of meet up at a friend house to split the cost. The week-end at my geekLair with my nerds is gonna be so amazing!! | ||
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theslanteye
6 Posts
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ChriseC
Germany440 Posts
20 dollar is not i always felt like mlg is the one event with the best marketing around, they have some sickass sponsors and the production itself looks so professional. but its not worth to pay 20dollars for one weekend, thats tooooo much | ||
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teacash
Canada494 Posts
I don't think they'll do better this way, but i'm fine with them trying new things in a novel industry to see what works | ||
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Optimator
United States53 Posts
Bad idea. | ||
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mDuo13
United States307 Posts
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Odoakar
Croatia1835 Posts
I for one won't pay, as I think 20$ is a bit too much for 2 days, when you get almost 3 months of GSL for less than that. I have bought GSL S1 ticket, and although there's going to be people saying 'what's 20$', the fact is there are a lot of ways to entertain yourself for money (games, books, comics, movies....) so paying money to 2-3 SC2 leagues is not really an option. Also, MLG air times are usually at bad times for Europeans (finals so far have always aired at around 02:00 after midnight). | ||
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Leifmeister
United States15 Posts
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Full.tilt
United Kingdom1709 Posts
I would strongly disagree that PPV events grow the scene in anyway. All these do is skim the current viewer market for those willing to pay extra. Just like when new tech first comes out the price is at a premium and a certain small percentage of the consumer market will pay that inflated price whilst everyone else is happy to wait a few months for the price to come down. In this case the VODS will be free to watch after a week (I think I read somewhere), that's when I may watch some of them. There's nothing wrong with MLG trying this because some people are willing to pay, they know only a small percentage will pay to watch but they must of done projections and they know or estimate that enough will pay. More events for those willing to pay, same amount of events for those unwilling to pay. I don't see much of a problem currently. | ||
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fire_brand
Canada1123 Posts
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wrekkless
Canada87 Posts
I'm pretty much fucked as far as watching this stuff now because I don't have a credit card and nobody I know will lend me theirs for this. (They don't support E-Sports :'( ) | ||
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5ukkub
Poland507 Posts
We are talking about internets guys... When was the last time you've paid 20$ to watch something via internet? Going this route I feel MLG is gonna fail :/ Sponsors + advertisers should be the way to go, just like in real sports. | ||
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Taiidan
10 Posts
I understand that this is a buisness but if you actually look at long term growth instead of short term profits they're shooting themselves in the foot as the price point could be a barrier for the uninitiated or even casual fans. I can't tell my friends anymore, "hey man you should check this out". And that will be detrimental to the growth of eSports. The Super Bowl attracted a record breaking 111 million viewers this year, many of which I guarentee you don't regularly watch football and would not be interested if they had to pay any amount to watch it, and over the years they probably rack up new fans that become regular viewers. If it was PPV how much do you think that number would have been affected? I believe it's simply a better model in the long run to have something out there for free and it makes the fans and viewers happy. I hope that MLG goes back to that. | ||
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Marzocchi
United States58 Posts
People are actually upset over the cost of a two day event? $20..... really? That price point is making this a financial hardship for people? Twenty WHOLE dollars? Anyone on here who cannot afford $20 to watch pros play in an excellent format, with top quality production value really, REALLy needs to reconsider their priorities. | ||
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AimlessAmoeba
Canada704 Posts
I'd happily pay ~$50 for the season though. Edit: That being said, I will pay for this because I watched all of last season for free :D thanks for that MLG | ||
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Zenniv
United States545 Posts
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fighter2_40
United States420 Posts
On February 16 2012 09:50 Marzocchi wrote: Wait... People are actually upset over the cost of a two day event? $20..... really? That price point is making this a financial hardship for people? Twenty WHOLE dollars? Anyone on here who cannot afford $20 to watch pros play in an excellent format, with top quality production value really, REALLy needs to reconsider their priorities. Okay moneybags. Jkjk It's not the absolute cost of 20$ that makes people annoyed, but the fact that by making the ticket price 20$, mlg becomes the most expensive sc2 program / game. What makes mlg that much better than gsl or other forms of free entertainment to warrant such a huge increase in prices when competitors maybe offer the same or better entertainment for less? | ||
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Jarek
Australia35 Posts
Saying that, if I had the spare $20 I would pay for it. | ||
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azureskie
United States17 Posts
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Taiidan
10 Posts
On February 16 2012 09:50 Marzocchi wrote: Wait... People are actually upset over the cost of a two day event? $20..... really? That price point is making this a financial hardship for people? Twenty WHOLE dollars? Anyone on here who cannot afford $20 to watch pros play in an excellent format, with top quality production value really, REALLy needs to reconsider their priorities. Please look at the bigger picture. And again, think further than just that. 20$ isn't a complete deal breaker for most dedicated fans, but the big deal here is for someone uninitiated or a casual player that heard about eSports, they will never pay 20$ for something they don't really know will truly be worth watching. Do you really want eSports to grow? Do you want more viewers? Do you want bigger sponsors? The fact of the matter is this will end up being a bottleneck for eSports. It is absolutely not the way to go. | ||
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oopsyoucantmove
United States39 Posts
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Whatson
United States5356 Posts
On February 16 2012 09:50 Marzocchi wrote: Wait... People are actually upset over the cost of a two day event? $20..... really? That price point is making this a financial hardship for people? Twenty WHOLE dollars? Anyone on here who cannot afford $20 to watch pros play in an excellent format, with top quality production value really, REALLy needs to reconsider their priorities. I do prioritize lol SC2 is close to the bottom of list of priorities right now as a college guy rubbing pennies together. Besides, if MLG really wanted to promote "ESports" (lol like SC2 is the only video game out there..) they wouldn't discourage casual viewers like this. | ||
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Oiseaux
United States676 Posts
On February 15 2012 08:09 eXigent. wrote: man there seems to be such an uproar about shelling out a measly $20. I can make that in less than an hour at work...why are people soo thrifty? I guarantee 99% of you have spent $20 on something alot stupider than a MLG ticket. So your personal life experience of being able to make $20 in less than an hour at your job is reflective of everyone who posts on TL? Everyone just happens to have decent wages at a decent job? I'm just going to be blunt, your opinion is just flat out elitist and arrogant. Edit: On February 16 2012 09:50 Marzocchi wrote: Wait... People are actually upset over the cost of a two day event? $20..... really? That price point is making this a financial hardship for people? Twenty WHOLE dollars? Anyone on here who cannot afford $20 to watch pros play in an excellent format, with top quality production value really, REALLy needs to reconsider their priorities. And your post just doesn't make sense. You're confused that people are finding the $20 a financial hardship, then tell them they need to reconsider their priorities. They are considering their priorities, and paying for this MLG doesn't make the cut. If you mean they need to reconsider their priorities in terms of their economical situation, then you need to get off your cushy privileged high horse. I would love to see the day when everyone who works minimum wage could just say "fuck it, Imma just magically have a good paying job." Society on a global level would just be completely fucked. | ||
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stormseeker442
United States60 Posts
On February 15 2012 08:09 eXigent. wrote: man there seems to be such an uproar about shelling out a measly $20. I can make that in less than an hour at work...why are people soo thrifty? I guarantee 99% of you have spent $20 on something alot stupider than a MLG ticket. I can't tell if your joking, or are that close minded. You realize this is a video GAME. Targeted at the CASUAL player. It also applies to young kids, and young adults. Most who may not have a job. With the econonmy, and unemployment poeple dont make $50 dollars like you. Some don't have access to a credit card, and there parents won't allow it. Some may be un-employed or eating top ramen in there dorm. Don't think of just yourself and make yourself the standard. If everyone made as much money as you, this would be a good deal. Edit: On a side note, I believe if they do this they will lose a lot of there young viewers, and the young kids inspiration. I also believe this will open up needless lawsuits about people streaming the content on sites so other people may watch free of cost. I know this has been big lately with sports such as MMA, Boxing, Football, Soccer, etc. Let's not turn this sport into MONEY, many sports do this. Don't have prize pools of extreme amounts, don't pay players thousands of dollars. A product that is free is a better market plan. I see them doing this because ad blocker is so big now and they cannot get sufficient money out of there ads. The value of free appeals to young players, as well as old ones trying to get into the game, it inspires more people to see there favorite player, as youtube only has SO much. I believe this is going in the wrong direction. This is not WWE. | ||
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Trsjnica
United States477 Posts
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Divinek
Canada4045 Posts
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Taiidan
10 Posts
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iEatWoofers
Switzerland108 Posts
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hillman
United States162 Posts
Make it $5 per day and you will have way more viewers... first, you give people a chance to try it for a small fee. Its easy to drop $5 on the first day to see if you like it....some will only buy the championship day...either way you will sell more than the present price (in dollars, higher volume will likely overtake lower price). Also, you give the first day "sample buyers" the chance to get sucked into the tournament and potentially buy the successive days. Finally, the hardcore will buy all the days, and you can offer like a 12.95 package deal or some shit....This model would result in higher revenue by my estimates, overall more people would be willing to spend $5 and check it out....you have to make it incremental and cheap ... thus easy to get hooked. People will be watching less exciting matches @ assembly and think "man I could buy MLG too and watch Nestea/MC/whoever right now"....Hit me up in PM MLG, looking for a job lol, have a finance degree...tongue in cheek but seriously you can PM me | ||
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VTArlock
United States1763 Posts
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Majynx
United States1431 Posts
On February 16 2012 18:27 VTArlock wrote: I would pay $5-10 but no more. $20 is a LOT for a single weekend of sc2 games. I agree, the price is too steep for just a weekend of games. I will still pay for this first event, hopefully it's quality/content is somewhat worth it. However, I won't keep shelling out $20 per future Arena event. | ||
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merz
Sweden2760 Posts
In the end e-sports needs to be sustainable in the sense that companies don't have to solely rely on sponsor money and ad revenue, but they came out a bit too strong Imo. | ||
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Jakkerr
Netherlands2549 Posts
On February 16 2012 20:37 dignitas.merz wrote: The idea is good, the price they set is too high. I'm not a business expert but I can't see how (when looking at Assembly and GSL) they came to the conclusion of 20$. There are better alternatives that are cheaper/same cost (GSL) there are free alternatives (Assembly). Had they gone for 10-15$ tops for the first event and then gradually raised to 20-25, people wouldn't have been as upset. Also if you do the first one for 10$ and people actually like and value what they see for 10$, chances are they won't be too upset about paying an extra 5$ next time, and so forth. In the end e-sports needs to be sustainable in the sense that companies don't have to solely rely on sponsor money and ad revenue, but they came out a bit too strong Imo. It's not a good idea (yet). SCII does not have the fanbase to ever support such a model, until the game gets a bigger following a PPV business model will do more harm then good. | ||
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banzaiib
United States53 Posts
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Krogan
Sweden375 Posts
I really don't see how they value their tournament at $20 for a single weekend event and I think they would have sold 5 times the ppv at a $10 price. Btw I am not exactly sure how PPV works as we don't have it in Sweden but is this the same kind of PPV that the UFC does? | ||
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FuFighter
Germany60 Posts
On February 16 2012 22:54 Krogan wrote: Btw I am not exactly sure how PPV works as we don't have it in Sweden but is this the same kind of PPV that the UFC does? Yes, it is. You have to pay just to watch a special event (in this case the Winter Arena) compared to paying for a whole season (e.g. GSL season or MLG goldmembership). If you don't pay for it you cannot watch it at all since there is no freestream whatsoever. I know everybody wants eSports to grow and all that but I'm not sure anymore. If PPV is the future of eSports I can not and will not pay for it as I think PPV is a very bad business model. I like the idea of having a low quality stream with ads for free and paying if you want an HD stream without commercials (it feels more like a donnation). I am also fine with paying for a whole season of for example GSL (which you can watch for free (in low quality) if you watch it live btw). If this is the future of eSports however I will probably only watch GSL and that's it because I can't afford more/maybe could afford more but don't want to spend more money on watching other guys play SC2. Of course it's a question of personal taste: do you prefer GSL or MLG, do you prefer a league system or a one weekend tournament etc. but for me it would be a league and it would be the best of the best (players and casteres wise) which at the moment is GSL. Call me cheap, immature or not passionate for esports but that's just how it is. I'd much rather follow the live streams of my favourite player (which hopefully will still be for free) and check out their results on liquipedia than spending my money every weekend to watch a tournament. That being sad: I understand the idea of trying to make money off of SC2 and I'm not mad at MLG or anything because I don't feel like I'm entitled to anything. It would just make me sad if that was the future of eSports because I much rather spend my money on T-Shirts and tickets to actually watch a tournament live in person (and I did both of it several times before btw) than ever spending money on a PPV. | ||
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Grimmyman123
Canada939 Posts
$20 for a weekend tournament, with VOD's - which is notoriously filled with dead air and a lack of content - is not a good deal. I'll watch the free stream, deal with the adverts, and when (not if) they have dead air, I'll turn on a stream of something else. | ||
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TheOnlyNurSo
Germany50 Posts
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Taiidan
10 Posts
On February 16 2012 23:21 FuFighter wrote: Yes, it is. You have to pay just to watch a special event (in this case the Winter Arena) compared to paying for a whole season (e.g. GSL season or MLG goldmembership). If you don't pay for it you cannot watch it at all since there is no freestream whatsoever. I know everybody wants eSports to grow and all that but I'm not sure anymore. If PPV is the future of eSports I can not and will not pay for it as I think PPV is a very bad business model. I like the idea of having a low quality stream with ads for free and paying if you want an HD stream without commercials (it feels more like a donnation). I am also fine with paying for a whole season of for example GSL (which you can watch for free (in low quality) if you watch it live btw). If this is the future of eSports however I will probably only watch GSL and that's it because I can't afford more/maybe could afford more but don't want to spend more money on watching other guys play SC2. Of course it's a question of personal taste: do you prefer GSL or MLG, do you prefer a league system or a one weekend tournament etc. but for me it would be a league and it would be the best of the best (players and casteres wise) which at the moment is GSL. Call me cheap, immature or not passionate for esports but that's just how it is. I'd much rather follow the live streams of my favourite player (which hopefully will still be for free) and check out their results on liquipedia than spending my money every weekend to watch a tournament. That being sad: I understand the idea of trying to make money off of SC2 and I'm not mad at MLG or anything because I don't feel like I'm entitled to anything. It would just make me sad if that was the future of eSports because I much rather spend my money on T-Shirts and tickets to actually watch a tournament live in person (and I did both of it several times before btw) than ever spending money on a PPV. It's the complete opposite! PPV hinders the growth of eSports. PPV = less viewers = less exposure = bad for eSports. All this does is give them short term money over long term growth, which is an aweful trade-off. If they actually stick it out with a free service supported by ads and sponsors the viewer count will continue to grow and eventually end up being more of a profit. And if you actually look at history, when a certain thing gets enough exposure, the big name sponsors notice and start to roll in, and that's when everythign explodes. These events will make tons of profit. Why do you think all major sports are not PPV? If at least they had a low quality stream for free that would be half as bad. It's bad for viewers, and even bad for long term profits, so it's honestly just a greedy move on their part and I flat out hate it. Ultimitely PPV is bad for eSports, period. | ||
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SpeedSloth
United States9 Posts
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DreamChaser
1649 Posts
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verne
United States43 Posts
On February 15 2012 08:07 jax1492 wrote: Lets put it this way, its been free so people expect it to be free ... i would pay for a season pass for all events but not for just one. they did that with the last event. it was called the Gold package and you paid 1 time for a years worth of MLG "pro curcuit" events. Now here we are the first event of the year and they are not honoring the Gold membership. They lost all credibility with this move. And at the same time took a giant shit on their current paying customers. It's like selling a guy a red car, then repainting it blue. When dude comes to pick up the car HE PAID FOR, they SWEAR this blue car is not the red car he already purchased and want to jack the price up and resell it to the guy that already paid for the car. | ||
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mjmrgn9797
United States1 Post
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BraveProbe
36 Posts
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DwD
Sweden8621 Posts
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darkwithin
8 Posts
I see no problem... | ||
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P0ckets
United States430 Posts
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MSMatrix
United States3 Posts
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Angra
United States2652 Posts
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Polygamy
Austria1114 Posts
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Jiiks
Finland487 Posts
On February 17 2012 07:35 DwD wrote: I think the way to go is the GSL way, always provide a free stream(Isn't this required by Blizzard anyway to get a tournament license?) Yeah i think so: http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/videopolicy.html Limitation of Usage Neither you nor the operator of any website where your Production(s) may be viewed can force a viewer to pay a "fee" to be able to view your Production(s). Regarding Websites and "Premium Access" We understand that many third party websites have a "free" method to see their video content, as well as a 'premium' membership service that allows for speedier viewing. For clarity, please note that as long as the website that hosts your Production provides a free method to allow viewers to see the Production, Blizzard Entertainment will not object to your Production being hosted on that site, regardless of the site's "for pay" premium service plans. | ||
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Nibirue
United States17 Posts
Advertisements can only go so far. | ||
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BraveProbe
36 Posts
On February 17 2012 12:41 Nibirue wrote: I only think its acceptable if the funding received gets put back into the event to enhance the overall quality of presentation. This means always getting the best casters, among other things. Offering an exceptional prize structure would go a long way towards building the event too. Anyone who thinks its ridiculous needs to be aware of how the world works. If it stays free, expect the quality to not get much better than it is now. Advertisements can only go so far. How the world also works is: if the targeted audience thinks that it is ridiculous and thus will not pay for it, then it is a bad business model or bad marketing at best- however "misinformed" the audience is. Expecting people to pay for what they will possibly want in the future (higher quality MLG) is not how the world works (unless you have good marketing, of course, in which case you'll sell just about anything). It is MLG's responsibility to raise the quality of their product or the capitals necessary to accomplish this. Consumers have every reason to say no to shouldering this responsibility of minimizing the risks a business must take. Competition tends to sort itself out (eSports brands), and in the end the value of MLG's product is determined by the consumers, not MLG. Personally, I support eSports by donating to small business owners like Day[9], helping them generate revenue through streams, and buying tickets to the high quality GSL. 20$ on a single new MLG event is not a product I'm interested in compared to those offered by its competitors. | ||
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critique
United States135 Posts
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onedayclose
United States1145 Posts
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Nightmer09
Romania16 Posts
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Luftmensch
277 Posts
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Arcanefrost
Belgium1257 Posts
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grs
Germany2339 Posts
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koepi
Germany1 Post
On February 17 2012 02:40 Taiidan wrote: It's the complete opposite! PPV hinders the growth of eSports. PPV = less viewers = less exposure = bad for eSports. All this does is give them short term money over long term growth, which is an aweful trade-off. If they actually stick it out with a free service supported by ads and sponsors the viewer count will continue to grow and eventually end up being more of a profit. And if you actually look at history, when a certain thing gets enough exposure, the big name sponsors notice and start to roll in, and that's when everythign explodes. These events will make tons of profit. Why do you think all major sports are not PPV? If at least they had a low quality stream for free that would be half as bad. It's bad for viewers, and even bad for long term profits, so it's honestly just a greedy move on their part and I flat out hate it. Ultimitely PPV is bad for eSports, period. I think we can only speculate how eSport will develop with PPV in the future. In my opinion, the only thing we can agree on is the fact that we and probably many other people will not be watching MLG. that doesnt sound good to me at all. I think FuFighter pretty much nailed it. We as a fan base should also contribute to the development of eSports, (e.g. by buying a season ticket or products of the sponsors, visiting a live event, writing on team liquid etc.). Personally, i am using razer products, have a GSL Season Ticket etc. But the important thing is that it felt like a donation. I didnt contribute to it because I had to, but because I wanted to. If we want to compare eSports to the big sports like football, basketball, soccer (in europe) and we want a similiar succes for eSports, then we have to keep in mind that the secret behind the success is the free availability of afore mentioned sports. For a major part of the population these sports have become not only a sport, but also a tradition, an important thing to watch. That can and will never be true for eSports if we limit the fan / viewer base due to a restraint to pay for it. eSport should not become an exclusive golf Club. Last but not least I want to clarify that I really appreciate the hard work organisations like MLG put into the development of eSports and that I am as above mentioned willing to support eSport by myself. But not by paying for every tournament. | ||
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KingOfLion
Poland6 Posts
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bubblegumbo
Taiwan1296 Posts
There is no way that this kind of model would work in Asia, especially due to the targeted demography and the economical situation of most normal middle-class income families. Nobody will ever buy a PPV plan in China, Korea or Taiwan. Cable TV channel packages yes, we already have this in Korea( dedicated OGN channel) and Taiwan(as a seasonal weekend show), perhaps this is the direction that Western tournaments should look at if they are struggling that much. It's silly that the very first ticket price isn't $10, I highly doubt they could make that much more money (if any at all) with a $20 dollar ticket. I am sure MLG already know this so we'll see what happens in the tournament after this upcoming one. The BW legacy set the foundation of the SC2 fanbase we have today, we wouldn't be here to if not due to the free VODs and free streams that OGN and MBC didn't mind distributed among foreigner fans. | ||
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Doomtrain2
Germany45 Posts
There are so many events, even the most popular one, the gsl.. isn't that expensive and it's for almost a whole month. It's a great event, many will want to see it and so I anticipate more income with lower prices. Realy.. I don't get this greed. Agree with @bubblegumbo | ||
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cerb
Germany215 Posts
I did not follow the MLG on a very regular basis, so I don't mind that much. That's why I voted for "I don't mind them trying, but I won't pay". Last time I tuned in randomly, this time I won't. Besides, I also agree with bubblegumbo | ||
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Phays
Sweden162 Posts
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Slardar
Canada7593 Posts
That sounds reasonable to me, considering all the money they are putting in to pay for players. | ||
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blackwolf
Denmark157 Posts
On February 17 2012 23:40 Slardar wrote: 4222+ 3545 = 7767 x $20 = $155,340 That sounds reasonable to me, considering all the money they are putting in to pay for players. You are not factoring in the money which they get from advertisements, which is paid (indirectly but nonthetheless paid) by the spectators, no tournament is EVER free to watch. The other tournaments seems to be able to make do without PPV, why should we have to pay for MLG? | ||
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mostevil
United Kingdom611 Posts
On February 17 2012 23:38 Phays wrote: The cheapest gsl ticket you can get costs $15 and that is for a whole season which is about 2 months. I don't understand how MLG can expect people to pay $20 for a weekend of games.. that is just plain dumb. Agreed, I'm not against paying however the quantity and quality of the GSL is invariably better for a lower fee. The players are better (with the exception of a few jet lagged code s players who fly out). They're also well rested and well prepared. ST_Legend's observing makes up for the casters shortcomings more often than not and now you can have Korean commentary now for code A VODs, so even if like me you don't understand you can hear someone get genuinely excited about the game instead of ranting on about how they think something is "bad" in the irritating tradition of most foreign casters. I honestly don't understand why MLG is considered the flagship event. Generally only a fraction of the games ever get cast while we watch the crowd mill about and some bad rock music 80% of the time, IPL had vastly better production, GSL has the better play, Homestory had tonnes of heart and far better technical commentary from the players (and often far funnier, MKP and MC were amazing). It looks like it'll do well regardless as it's one of those things that's popular despite itself but MLG needs to improve a whole lot to get my money. | ||
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kimchikid
Sweden162 Posts
20 USD - same as going to the movies, really nothing. Final sunday I will spend at a barcraft, there I will probably spend some 50-60 USD on food and beers. GSL is supercheap, I am sure they will do same next season, to force everyone to pay and give up free viewing. | ||
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Slardar
Canada7593 Posts
On February 18 2012 01:01 blackwolf wrote: You are not factoring in the money which they get from advertisements, which is paid (indirectly but nonthetheless paid) by the spectators, no tournament is EVER free to watch. The other tournaments seems to be able to make do without PPV, why should we have to pay for MLG? Growth man, how do you expect the prize pools to increase, how do you expect the amount of tournaments to increase? They probably make a decent sum, don't get me wrong, but is that enough to keep making this a viable business structure? | ||
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krjay
United States35 Posts
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lock203
United States43 Posts
SC2 is totally different model where you can watch top players daily for free, MLG isn't offering matches that no one hasn't already seen or won't see within the next month or so. Not to mention alot of the esport demagraphic are not gonna have as much desposable income as the other ppv sports demagraphics do. I'm all for MLG trying this out and hope it works for them, but I have a feeling their results are gonna be pretty dismal. Not to many people will buy the cow when they can get the milk for free. | ||
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EZjijy
United States1039 Posts
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infinitum
United States83 Posts
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OptIn
United States19 Posts
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Drunkface
United States46 Posts
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StreetWise
United States594 Posts
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Synwave
United States2803 Posts
I can take my lady to the movies for a night for less. Date > MLG on off. If they priced it better, if they didn't screw the gold memberships, if they gave it some thought... yeah I could get on board. Sundance started the year by firing a bunch of people and then screwed over gold members with no discount and over charging the regular joes. Mean and lean indeed in 2012! Hah. | ||
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Emperor_Earth
United States824 Posts
NCAA March Madness relies purely on ad revenue NCAAF Bowls rely solely on ad revenue There is no prerogative to go to PPV. The onus is on the providers to try different models and see which one will find the best balance of profit and consumer retention. MLG will see the obvious difference between their planned PPV and Assembly's ad only revenue quite soon. Let us hope they realize their mistake before Day 2. | ||
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TeTrodoToxIn
United States18 Posts
Why not take the GOMtv route? Make it free to watch live at low bandwidth, first game of a series available for watching and if you want the rest of the replays/better quality streaming you can pay. | ||
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HEROwithNOlegacy
United States850 Posts
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HEROwithNOlegacy
United States850 Posts
On February 18 2012 15:09 Emperor_Earth wrote: I hope a moderator bans you, clearly didn't listen to Lo3. NFL, NBA, NHL, everyone on T.V has a cable deal, as sundance explained you can only see the teams with the cable deals on T.V and for the NFL you have to be in the region to see teams play, unless you buy the NFL package. Please don't bring arrogance into this thread.NFL, NBA, NHL playoffs rely solely on ad revenue NCAA March Madness relies purely on ad revenue NCAAF Bowls rely solely on ad revenue There is no prerogative to go to PPV. The onus is on the providers to try different models and see which one will find the best balance of profit and consumer retention. MLG will see the obvious difference between their planned PPV and Assembly's ad only revenue quite soon. Let us hope they realize their mistake before Day 2. | ||
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ReD-FooT
Denmark22 Posts
So now because i am a gold member instead of getting the content that i thought i payed for i get a 5$ discount on a 3 day event so i "only" have to pay 15 dollars. Depending on how many of these events there will be this year i actually might end up saving money by buying the gold membership but with a big IF... If i actually buy the ticket for all these events. But lets wait and see after this first event maybe they will change their minds and change the priceing, with 77% of the poll not wanting to pay it might end up hurting too much. | ||
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BackTrack
Canada76 Posts
Stop being so cheap, and why not try giving back a little....YES YOU! how about you stop thinking so highly of yourself for a minute and actually support this thing you supposibly care so much about | ||
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Jintoss
Hong Kong117 Posts
So I'm just be happy that you now have to spend on SC2 and esports like you would football or whatever - it has come a long way. This is also a lot cheaper than PPV boxing; or having a cable/satellite subscription for football/NBA/NHL/whatever seasons; or flying out to attend a F1 Grand Prix. But not only is it cheaper, its more 'significant'. Its a whole fucking tournament, not just a match - let's remember that. That being said, I hope they do a good job amping up the drama so that people will feel glad they spent on MLG and not their local ripoff cinema concession stand with their 3000% return on the sale of popcorn. Personally, I would like a free MLG keychain gift for a years subscription. It's pretty standard and its such a nice, simple thing to do. | ||
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Mallement
Denmark39 Posts
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MutantGenepool
Australia115 Posts
If you're gonna get the stream add free, what's the point of the advertising? | ||
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Lorch
Germany3671 Posts
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imre
France9263 Posts
The format prevent to have epic games at the end of the tourney (you're not gonna get Jjakji/Leennock quality without time to prepare and with 1X or 2X bo3 already played on 3days) and the production value is really low (break/little interaction with the players outside of the games etc...) There are tournaments with free low quality streams which delivers a product with a suitable quality for PPV (GSL) and tournaments with free high quality streams. If you don't belong to one of these category (MLG/NASL) something is wrong with your model because the concurrence do it better. On February 18 2012 18:30 BackTrack wrote: I think this just proves that e-sports "enthusiasts" are only really enthusiasts if it's free, bunch of cheap buggers.....the e-sports community need some better day jobs if you cant even pay what most people make in under an hour, and it lasts all weekend. It boggles my mind how every time some stream costs a little money, people go bat shit crazy over it, thinking they're entitled to free entertainment or they should boycott the event and make grand statements like "ohh that's rediculous, they're so unreasonable to charge me for the content, i'll never watch an MLG i have to pay for." Stop being so cheap, and why not try giving back a little....YES YOU! how about you stop thinking so highly of yourself for a minute and actually support this thing you supposibly care so much about We're consumers period. I don't support an organization which provide a PPV event with a slightly better player pool than an other even which happen at the same time with a free high quality stream. And if you're gonna talk about the koreans, just watch the GSL it's far better, quality of play is always crappy in 3/4 days tournament compare to those were players have time to prepare. If you really want to support something, just do what reddit did: fly your favorite player to a tournament, not giving money to an organization which only goal (like every organization) is to make benefit. | ||
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CrtBalorda
Slovenia704 Posts
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common_cider
342 Posts
They have to prove that it's worth my money before I'll blindly give it to them | ||
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qntmCHARM
Canada4 Posts
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Areon
United States273 Posts
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raf3776
United States1904 Posts
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Zikeman
United States10 Posts
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jackdaniels
29 Posts
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imre
France9263 Posts
On February 19 2012 02:51 Zikeman wrote: $20 isnt that much. Everyone is just use to everything being free. Go get a job, work 2 hours and you have paid for the whole weekend worth of MLG SC2. Stop paying for a month of Swtor, or WoW and support SC2 and esports. People are overreacting to the price. I dont know about everyone else but i will be paying for it to support MLG, and im going to invite a few friends over allow them to buy/bring food and we'll just chill and watch it all weekend. Stop overreacting, go get jobs and support MLG. support + enterprise in the same sentence ... oh TL | ||
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Night Eyes
433 Posts
On February 19 2012 00:27 qntmCHARM wrote: ill never pay to watch sc, just like ill never pay to watch a hockey game on tv Unless the hockey games are on public TV then you do pay for them by paying your cable company. | ||
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Cpadolf
Sweden1199 Posts
On February 19 2012 02:53 jackdaniels wrote: I don't think there is a market for it. Right now $20 is a lot, especially for Europe which is going through a big recession. Depends largely on which part of Europe you are talking about. We're relatively fine over here (certainly better than the U.S, as far as I know). | ||
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slammered
United States56 Posts
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CinnaBuns
United States34 Posts
That said, I can understand MLG wanting to try out some different business models just to see if it's viable. I'm sure they've done some demographics research and understand that most of their viewers are in NA. And, secondly, while it's understandable that $20 means a whole lot more in other parts of the world and to high school / college students, that doesn't really mean a whole lot to tournament organizers and advertisers at the end of the day. It is a business, and they absolutely need to target people with a good amount of disposable income to pay for events and to pay for the crap that advertisers are trying to sell you. The Super Bowl generates a ton of ad revenue because a large part of its target audience (including "casual" fans) happen to be in the age group to have lots of disposable income. I'm pretty sure all the funny beer and car commercials are not targetted at broke teenagers. Obviously a lot of folks here don't agree with the pricing model, and personally I doubt I would buy a ticket as I already paid for a full year of GSL, but only time will tell if this works out for MLG or not (and I doubt they'd publicly announce their profits/losses). Enthusiasm is great, but money makes the world go around. If there's not more money going into the system, it's unreasonable to think that events will just magically get bigger and better. | ||
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CinnaBuns
United States34 Posts
On February 19 2012 08:03 Cpadolf wrote: Don't really mind at all that they are charging money for it, they are a business and are simply trying to make things go around. But I won't buy since I'll probably only have time to watch a fraction of the games anyway, plus ASUS ROG looks pretty good as well. Depends largely on which part of Europe you are talking about. We're relatively fine over here (certainly better than the U.S, as far as I know). Don't worry about us in the US just yet  We have similar unemployment rates. Sweden has higher GDP per capita. US has higher purchasing power per capita (PPP). All in all I'd say we're pretty similar. | ||
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peekn
United States1152 Posts
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mint_julep
United States254 Posts
On February 16 2012 17:38 iEatWoofers wrote: 20 $ isn't that much... cheap bastards. Yeah,well... everything's relative. + Show Spoiler + (Also, your math sucks, but that's a story for the end of this logic based rant.) Some people have already pointed out, reasonably, that much of the pro SC2 fan base is high school and college students who don't have a lot of cash laying around. A lot of others happen to live in a fucked economy. A few other people have pointed out, reasonably, that the GSL costs less in terms of $/content, while the production values and level of competition (at the very least least for code S) is generally higher. (There's also the frustrating-ass-annoyance of already being a gold member and then being told to cough up more cash, event by event, to keep watching while not knowing if or when they might jack up the prices again on a whim.) Actually, there's a precise total of zero "cheap bastard"-ish things about not wanting to spend more money for an inferior product. EoL. But especially when someone may or may not have the resources at their disposal that another (possibly snide-assed, condescending) individual happens to. ... That being said, 20 bucks ain't shit to me either - but I wouldn't pay this on principle. I get more kick ass content than I have time to watch on the GSL anyway. As much as $20 doesn't hurt my personal pockets, $20 every single event when I'm already MLG Gold, AND spending hundreds on (better) yearly GSL/GSTL pass content is money I'd rather spend on a few decent bottles of scotch to sip while I watch the real championship.  TL;DR: MLG: Wait until you have a better product than your competition before charge more than them in a less convenient way. | ||
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Jisall
United States2054 Posts
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laharl23
United States582 Posts
wouldn't having 250,000 viewers and running like 4-5 long ads (like any real television show) be a lot more money than having people pay 20 dollars to watch it? | ||
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NhcErco
Norway3 Posts
They are ADDING PPV's.. not changing the tourneys they have had before.. | ||
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CCa1ss1e
Canada3231 Posts
Go MLG!! XD | ||
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Kahuna.
Canada196 Posts
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mastergriggy
United States1312 Posts
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Valor55
United States11 Posts
That being said, I feel MLG content is far inferior(add to it that there's simply far less content) to a GSL subscription. I understand the motivation to move to a PPV structure, but you'd think that they would have evaluated their product and price point a bit more thoroughly before coming out with this as it really makes no sense given the other products out there. Ultimately I'll be voting with my dollar come MLG day and will not be paying to view. | ||
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Ownos
United States2147 Posts
On February 19 2012 08:29 slammered wrote: do other sports fans have to pay to watch their sport? no, commercials, advertisements, and charisma all get them their funding. Yes? | ||
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Mingle
United Kingdom26 Posts
Edit: We all say we want to see e-sports grow, well this is one of the viable ways to make it grow. | ||
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StrafeJD
United States39 Posts
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NotTheMonker
United States131 Posts
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WeavingHarp9
Sweden23 Posts
With that said I think MLG have made a mistake with this and if they go plus with this I doubt they needed to take that much for the ticket could have lowered it and gotten alot more customers. | ||
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cameler
Canada99 Posts
What would make me pay to watch MLG? I dont really get all personal and I dont have favourite players like the children these days. OMG IDRA OMG HUK I LUV MORROW 4LIEK EVA... yeah that aint me, and I wont be paying to watch anyone play a game of SC2 for a loooong time. Boneheaded move imo. | ||
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WeavingHarp9
Sweden23 Posts
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Tx3Jorge
United States32 Posts
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CROrens
Croatia1005 Posts
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FenrirSc2
United States3 Posts
Lastly, all matches will of course be made available free to everyone as VOD, one week after the Arena wraps up. | ||
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Grimberht
Canada6 Posts
Revoked my gold membership too... I dont blame Sundance, I think he's been put into a tough spot, but hey! I dont like the way we've been treated and they should be ashamed of doing such bad business at a time like this... They want to suck the money from the suckers who already paid... oh well!! Goodluck with you're ingenious business model! 2012 look like it couldve have been the year of eSport... but greed is ruining it. Shame on those who think their money make them intitled to drain out the growth of this communty and a big round of applause to all those who are working tirelessly for little money\no money to make it happen!!! Its gonna be from the ground up... not from the top down! | ||
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NEEDZMOAR
Sweden1277 Posts
On February 15 2012 07:53 VIPlol wrote: I feel like most people in this community wants everything to be handed out free to 'em :S Nothing's free. When we watch streams of other things we "pay" by being manipulated by commercials and sponsors. | ||
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RaZaCGaming
Netherlands4 Posts
On February 15 2012 08:09 eXigent. wrote: man there seems to be such an uproar about shelling out a measly $20. I can make that in less than an hour at work...why are people soo thrifty? I guarantee 99% of you have spent $20 on something alot stupider than a MLG ticket. I have to work about 2.5 hours to get $20... And then the fact that the streams will most likely run while i'm sleeping makes it completely usesless for me. A pity i loved MLG last year | ||
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Barleyarley
United Kingdom20 Posts
They have been running an extremely successful business model that runs off of advertising revenue for a long time, I see no long term benefits from cutting the viewership that they have built up just to make a little extra at the expense of their fans.Why change a popular and successful model? | ||
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SohcranA
United States36 Posts
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VanBuKK
Germany6 Posts
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jarf1337
United States146 Posts
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Sejanus
Lithuania550 Posts
Well lets just repeat the "It's good for the E-Sports" mantra and hand over our money. (Not really). | ||
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KrsOne
United States64 Posts
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Frostmister
Sweden77 Posts
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kittensrcute
United States617 Posts
On February 20 2012 01:08 StrafeJD wrote: This is the dumbest thing I've ever seen, this is worse than NASL. they are going to lose soo many viewer, and with them in competition with out tournanments maybe the players will choose to go to those instead of MLG because of the loss of viewers. Worse than NASL? I don't think I'd go that far. But I do think MLG should have started off with a $10 fee or coupled some deals with Gold/Silver membership. | ||
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The_Darkness
United States910 Posts
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Cratosch
Germany8 Posts
Allthough I make a lot more than 20$ an hour I would never ever pay 20$ for a single SC2 tournament. I think for 1/4th of the price you would get at least 5 times the viewers. The TL-Poll represents allready the hardcore SC2-fans. You Can't extrapolate from that. Outside TL even less people will be willing to pay that amount of money. Outside of North America this will attract very few people. In Germany pay-TV as a whole is a failure. Germans in general are not willing to pay money for TV. WWE-PPVs for example cost 15€, Wrestlemania 20€. Those PPVs don't get even 10.000 buys in Germany. I would bet 20$ that not even 100 people from Germany will buy that MLG-ticket. Then there are lots of countries where 20$ are actually a lot of money. I think its a shame to have a tournament with some of the best players and only a few 1.000 people watching. I honestly don't believe that that is the way to grow. Imagine you are trying to recrute a friend to watch SC2: "Hey...you really should watch this...where? Online!...You do have a credit card, have you?....Why?...costs 20 bucks of course!....Thats not to much, it's a bargain! Nestea is playing!.... Who Nestea is? Man!" | ||
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Aserrin
Uruguay231 Posts
But I think the worst will be if they try to put the blame on the viewers for not supporting the event, instead of themselves. Who wants to bet? | ||
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Ordained
United States779 Posts
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famousfrank
Sweden2 Posts
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m0ck
4194 Posts
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MrBenybob
United Kingdom2 Posts
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Svennedude
Belgium86 Posts
On February 15 2012 13:59 dAPhREAk wrote: shame on a business to try and make money off its product. mlg started out small with sc2 and has invested a lot of money into making it a bigger and better tournament. they should be able to profit off their investment. the market will determine whether it is successful. they are already makings money trough the ads and all the people coming to the tournament. it actually just means like any other company they want to make "more" money. its not like they woudn't survive with out it. companies just feel like they have to have a few million/billion banked for some reason. (once a company smells money it only gets worse) | ||
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mangomango
United States265 Posts
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Mnemosyne13
Sweden3 Posts
On February 15 2012 07:53 VIPlol wrote: I feel like most people in this community wants everything to be handed out free to 'em :S If you pay or not depends on your economic situation vs how good you find the service to be. I dont like commercials but I prefer that over paying with a credit card. Everyone wants my money no matter where I go, its not an unlimited resource for me. Except for that im not too happy about using my credit card over the internet. I wont even pay 50 cent for this. But I dont mind watching 10 ad,s. Theres not one buissness model that fits everyone, you need several to catch as many "customers" as possible. | ||
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raginglemon
Japan64 Posts
On February 21 2012 16:56 Ordained wrote: Starcraft is just not a "sport" that people are willing to pay money to watch apparently. People are willing to pay, but I believe people aren't willing to pay $20 for what MLG is offering. The gom tickets are much better value for your eSports dollar when you compare to the two content producers. Currently SC2 just isn't a big enough sport to warrant PPV type of subscription, there aren't many sports out there that are (UFC and Boxing are the only ones that come to mind, all other sports have moved away from the PPV model). | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On February 21 2012 23:24 Svennedude wrote: they are already makings money trough the ads and all the people coming to the tournament. it actually just means like any other company they want to make "more" money. its not like they woudn't survive with out it. companies just feel like they have to have a few million/billion banked for some reason. (once a company smells money it only gets worse) sundance said they dont make any real money off of ads, because most people use adblock. so what is your basis for saying they are making money off ads? also, this is an online tournament. there are no people going to the event, so they dont make any money that way as well. finally, your idea that they are making millions/billions is just ludicrous. i would be surprised if they are even in the black. | ||
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HistRevist
9 Posts
On February 21 2012 09:54 Cratosch wrote: I think its a shame to have a tournament with some of the best players and only a few 1.000 people watching. " A few thousands, maybe in their dreams? | ||
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Negius
Netherlands290 Posts
Maybe MLG could've offered an annual pass for $ 50 (which is still a lot of money), with the championships included. Or maybe they should make this tournament last longer, keeping it online, with a huge list of players playing on several weekends in pool play and elimination brackets. But of course, we'll have to wait and see the results of this $ 20 price tag, if they get enough money to support the event, it won't change. If they see they lose a lot of viewers, so their advertising income will go down, they'll probably reconsider. I think they've done the wrong thing. If an AOL tournament costs $ 4,99, I believe almost every SC2 fan will buy a ticket for 4,99 which will result in huge income. At least comparing to 10 percent of people who probably pay $ 20 now. | ||
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vx70GTOJudgexv
United States3161 Posts
On February 21 2012 23:24 Svennedude wrote: they are already makings money trough the ads and all the people coming to the tournament. it actually just means like any other company they want to make "more" money. its not like they woudn't survive with out it. companies just feel like they have to have a few million/billion banked for some reason. (once a company smells money it only gets worse) Where do you have these numbers from exactly? | ||
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ArchoN[VenoM]
United States90 Posts
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On February 22 2012 02:02 ArchoN[VenoM] wrote: They will lose the average fans if they keep this up. YES, there are some hardcore SC2 fans that will always be around but that wont make up for the majority casual gamers lost if they do this with the pricing. I dont like it at all and im really dissapointed. I understand business but at the same time this is a game we all play for free online. Esports cannot break anymore ground if things like this keep happening. the thing is, if the average fans are not going to pay for these events, then it doesnt make sense for MLG to keep having these events. they are in it as a business, and sundance has to prove to investors and mlg's management that it makes sense to keep this going. if they can make more money elsewhere, they will jump ship, and then the sc2 community loses another tournament. the idea itself (PPV) is not bad; the amount is a different matter. they should have started smaller. they, unfortunately, have turned this into an all-in and have not given themselves any leeway if people are willing to pay $10, but not $20. | ||
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spacesharksmaster
5 Posts
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tehbone
Germany4 Posts
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MyTHicaL
France1070 Posts
Added to the fact that this completely screws over any/all gold mlg members zzz. | ||
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Flamingo777
United States1190 Posts
On February 15 2012 11:24 Love and Justice wrote: If I pay for the MLG PPV will there still be commercials? MLG does all of their commercials in the breaks between action anyways. Previously, aside from a higher quality stream, even if commercials were removed (Although I don't know if they were, or not) the only difference would be staring at an audience while commercials ran, or simply watching the commercials, both of which aren't entertaining. | ||
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TerransHill
Germany572 Posts
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TLsc3
Australia11 Posts
I have GOM yearly subscription & I'm getting most out of it GSL. They are thinking it like UFC but its not UFC. esports is still new to outer world so hmmm not so sure.........and fuck slasher-You are doing great I'm proud of U. | ||
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Akash1223
United States91 Posts
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BearStorm
United States795 Posts
Also to all the people who are trying to compare this with GOM. You need to realize that MLG has been providing free replays/vods where as GSL does not. So it all comes down to which you value more, vods or stream. Personally I think people are not giving MLG enough credit for the quality content they have been providing for free. Also this event is much better compared to Arena of Legends instead of the GSL. So please, reconsider your opinion if you are pissed off and up in arms against MLG. | ||
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Kaitlin
United States2958 Posts
On February 22 2012 08:59 TerransHill wrote: Wow, according to this poll MLG is going to lose 77% of their viewers. Looks like this completly backfires on them. Did everyone who voted in that poll pay for their content previously ? | ||
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TerransHill
Germany572 Posts
On February 22 2012 15:52 Kaitlin wrote: Did everyone who voted in that poll pay for their content previously ? Maybe not everyone but they atleast watched commercials, spread the word etc. Growth is way better than a few people who buy a ticket for 20$. If MLG/esports gets bigger, it gets more attractive to sponsors, more people are going to purchase premium stuff etc. I can understand that they probably need cash badly, but there have to be other ways. With this 20$ PPV they're committing suicide. | ||
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darkxzzy
Germany31 Posts
but 20 bucks for 3 day ?? | ||
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MattyClutch
United States711 Posts
On February 22 2012 15:52 Kaitlin wrote: Did everyone who voted in that poll pay for their content previously ? Well based on the current votes they are going to get over $45k just from TL viewers. That said I have MLG Gold for the year and I think I am going to pass on this, so some of us that payed previously won't be signing up for this. It just seems a bit much to me. I pay them for a year of MLG and the very first event they have they want another $15-20 from me? For just a weekend event? I could get a lot more bang for my buck from the GSL or NASL (both of which I have). | ||
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CROrens
Croatia1005 Posts
On February 21 2012 03:58 jarf1337 wrote: This thread makes me want to buy multiple tickets. The good things in life aren't free. any other sport is | ||
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CROrens
Croatia1005 Posts
no. here TV is free, and I watch sports on TV, dont you? | ||
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WeavingHarp9
Sweden23 Posts
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blackone
Germany1314 Posts
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Vash_SC2
United States122 Posts
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Vash_SC2
United States122 Posts
On February 22 2012 21:04 darkxzzy wrote: all complain about the prices but i think thats right cause gomtv is cheap i mean look how many think they do for the community now even talkshows... but 20 bucks for 3 day ?? ummm what about ufc....$60 for 3-4 hours? | ||
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blackone
Germany1314 Posts
On February 23 2012 04:22 The_Stampede wrote: This poll shows how out numbered we as adults 18+ with jobs are...against these silly little children who haven't worked ever. T.T That's the single worst strawman I have ever read in TL. Really? Everybody who thinks it's too expensive doesn't work? I don't care if 20$ isn't much in the grand scheme of things, I'd also not pay 20$ for a bubblegum, even though I like bubblegum and I could spare 20$. | ||
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saulinsky
2 Posts
Here's my point, I can get content from many different leagues in starcraft for free. MLG is one league, why should I have to pay money to watch the MLG tournament, as opposed to the plethora of other leagues that have content for free with the same players? | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On February 23 2012 04:54 saulinsky wrote: I think it's important to look at this from a historical perspective. Baseball started out with many different professional leagues, and before that, teams were developed very locally. For the longest time, Baseball was an extremely affordable past time to engage in and the development of the system of games was very localized. Now, MLB dominates baseball. Here's my point, I can get content from many different leagues in starcraft for free. MLG is one league, why should I have to pay money to watch the MLG tournament, as opposed to the plethora of other leagues that have content for free with the same players? you dont have to do anything. its a market system. if you dont feel MLG's price is reasonable, then don't pay it. if enough people agree with you, they will lower or eliminate the price for next time (or they will just stop producing this type of content). however, if enough people are willing to pay for it, then you can continue to watch the other tournaments for free (assuming they don't adopt MLG's PPV model), and those of us who are willing to pay will get to keep enjoying higher-end content from MLG for a price (hopefully higher end). | ||
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St3MoR
Spain3256 Posts
8.95 mlg, i'm ok with you trying, but I feel you should rethink this for the next event, before you lose (more) supporters. | ||
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Kernen
United States84 Posts
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Blossom
United Kingdom87 Posts
On a side note: We all talk about "expanding esports", etc... but MLG going in the opposite direction. We want everybody to watch the content and let them try it out. I've had friends over to watch MLG events previously and some have immediately gone out to buy the game- others haven't. My point is this: how can we expect to "expand" esports when the content is inaccessible to those that simply want to view the game?. One of the first times I ever watched MLG I just randomly went on the site on day and was fascinated by the live event. This is where other streams exceed MLG. So, unfortunately, I won't be watching next weekends show and I'll probably unsubscribe from my silver membership. | ||
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Sieni
Finland10 Posts
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daweed
Belgium1 Post
After, make money with esport ok but without that the spectator made expenses!!! With new concept of MLG, spectators pay simply the players! I cant imagine that an organization as the MLG have no sponsor such as one travel company, food company drink, hotel, furnitures pc,...,...,.. Make a trip has Wall Street, they know how to grow some money.. and make all world in the bread soup.. | ||
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gn1k
United States441 Posts
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RmoteCntrld
United States596 Posts
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Mambo
Denmark1338 Posts
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ydeer1993
United Kingdom569 Posts
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Noelani
55 Posts
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Ampster
31 Posts
Personally, I like the model of having a free stream option with ads more, I like having more options provided than less. I feel the model is more accessible and keeps everyone happy. •Players getting the exposure they needed •Premium viewers getting additional contents (behind the scenes, player coverage, post-games analysis sessions, etc) and special features (stream viewing customization and features) •Free viewers being able to watch | ||
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