EPTOtherwise a great ranking altogether though I think Tyson is better than you give him credit for.
Power Rank 02/01/2011 - Page 5
| Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet |
|
tedster
984 Posts
Otherwise a great ranking altogether though I think Tyson is better than you give him credit for. | ||
|
_Quasar_
Russian Federation4405 Posts
 You rock, flamewheel! In the probably most mind-fucking month for a power rank, still a very logical writeup ^_^ | ||
|
Evs
Philippines330 Posts
On February 01 2011 18:25 Cpadolf wrote: Maybe not. But that's because they didn't suck last month. Jumping from not being on the PR to #2 is almost unprecedented, and its not the First time someone who won a starleague isn't #1 either. Fantasy's achievement in the OSL is very well represented on this PR imo. Well represented at #2 but my question is the qualifier for #1: To be #1  Flash had to : perform well in WL (no participation in any other league)Fantasy had to : get the OSL gold, and perform well in WL. Being in 2 leagues actually worked against Fantasy here? Not advancing deep enough to participate in BOXs helped cement Flash's dominance in the scene? Because his BO1 record is enough to extrapolate the results of a BOX in an individual tournament? Such a lopsided standard means that Flash only needs to be dominant in one league at any given time to continue staying on top then. | ||
|
StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
It's a hard thing to write a PR. You have to take into consideration that a PR is not only an achievement vs achievement list. It's a list where you put everything you have together and try to evaluate who is the strongest/hottest players right now. Imo, fantasy is NOT the strongest player in BW right now. He'd probably be 4-5 on my rank. At the end of the day, since this is not 100% resultbased like ELO and KeSPA, PR will always be a matter of oppinion to some extent. | ||
|
revy
United States1524 Posts
On February 02 2011 02:25 Evs wrote: Well represented at #2 but my question is the qualifier for #1: To be #1 Flash had to : perform well in WL (no participation in any other league)Fantasy had to : get the OSL gold, and perform well in WL. This is topped off with the extrapolation that since Flash is this good at BO1's then he would have defeated (Fantasy) others in a BoX series anway. Ergo Fantasy can't be higher than him... With such a lopsided standard Flash only needs to be dominant in one league at any given time to continue staying on top. We can just assume how he fares in other tournaments based on a single league's play afterall. I believe the difference is that in the last PR Flash was rank 5 and Fantasy was not even on CBNC. The power rank always uses the last month or two to ground itself. With this in mind Flash jumped 4 places while Fanta jumped up 8+. If Fanta was ranked last PR (which indicates that he had been playing well the last few months) I think you would see a big difference at the top. Similarly we could bash Stork for dropping 0-6 but when you frame it with what he's been doing the last few months all of a sudden he doesn't look quite as bad. IMO I would've put JD at first, he doesn't feel the strongest but he's far along in the MSL and has a decent PL win rate. He's not had the strongest competition but out of everyone I think he looks the best from a Strength/Results in Leagues/Previous Rank sense. That said I can't really fault flamewheel for Flash at first, he has dominated WL against the strongest vT opponents thus far. | ||
|
elf_01
United States168 Posts
On February 02 2011 01:13 hacklebeast wrote: Bisu should be ranked over a player he lost 3 times to for the same reason stork should be ranked over a player he lost three times to (zero); because of the vast discrepancy in the quality of the other games. Somehow, you have managed to argue that losing six games actually helps stork, because it shows he can "rebound" Those 6 losses are huge, and you dismiss them because he managed to win a few games afterwards? Then why isn’t Reach on here? He broke an 11 game losing streak, must mean he will win the next OSL . Stork defeats Bisu in head to head and in league advancement. His does NOT show a vast discrepancy in the quality of other games, and shows good play against other S-class (Beat JD and Bisu). His league knockouts are equally as ugly as Bisu's (or do you not remember Bisu being knocked out 0-2 and 0-2, unable to even make the Bo5 rounds). Both of them have similar records in Winners League. 10-1 for stork iirc (loss to PvP sniper Horang2's hardcounter build, wins over hydra, JD, bisu, Fantasy, reverse all kill of MBC). 15-2 for Bisu (losses to Flash and Stork IN TWO ACE MATCHES, 3 allkills, though the one over ACE is sort of easy, no wins over s-class, but some impressive wins). Overall, given that Stork equals or defeats Bisu in every category, Stork deserves his spot over Bisu. | ||
|
SaetZero
United States855 Posts
But I don't agree with it as is. Tough Power Rank indeed. Top four all deserve the #1 slot for different reasons, we couldn't just format in some T-#1 placements and cut the PR to four #1's and 2-7? :D | ||
|
hitthat
Poland2349 Posts
| ||
|
Evs
Philippines330 Posts
On February 02 2011 02:31 StylishVODs wrote: It's pretty unfair to simplicify it like that Evs. It's a hard thing to write a PR. You have to take into consideration that a PR is not only an achievement vs achievement list. It's a list where you put everything you have together and try to evaluate who is the strongest/hottest players right now. Flamewheel has been more than generous to Fantasy if we go by what the majority of posters in this thread had to say. That doesn't mean I won't criticize him for what I think is a flaw in the ranking's reasoning. | ||
|
hacklebeast
United States5090 Posts
On February 02 2011 02:49 elf_01 wrote: Stork defeats Bisu in head to head and in league advancement. His does NOT show a vast discrepancy in the quality of other games, and shows good play against other S-class (Beat JD and Bisu). His league knockouts are equally as ugly as Bisu's (or do you not remember Bisu being knocked out 0-2 and 0-2, unable to even make the Bo5 rounds). Both of them have similar records in Winners League. 10-1 for stork iirc (loss to PvP sniper Horang2's hardcounter build, wins over hydra, JD, bisu, Fantasy, reverse all kill of MBC). 15-2 for Bisu (losses to Flash and Stork IN TWO ACE MATCHES, 3 allkills, though the one over ACE is sort of easy, no wins over s-class, but some impressive wins). Overall, given that Stork equals or defeats Bisu in every category, Stork deserves his spot over Bisu. bisu: 15-4 losses to #1 player (in elo) and #1 protoss (other than himself in elo) stork 16-8 losses to #6, #7 #21 and # 35 (in elo) Horang2 skews it a bit because his PvP is a lot better than his other stuff, but the point is clear. Bisu only lost to damn good people. Stork lost a lot (I dare to say most losses of the month, but I haven't checked that). he doesnt "defete" bisu in win percentage, he doesn't "defeat" Bisu in all kills, he doesn't "defeat" Bisu in quality of opponents (certainly not in the losses, but we can call it a wash overall if you want). If the power rankings are superpose to be about "hotness" or "fearsomeness", then all I can say is getting 3 all kills is fearsome, losing to horang2 is not. And I'm not sure questioning the quality of the ace all-kill is a good idea, considering stork did some stat padding of his own with a Bo3 vs Hiya in his best MU (where he still managed to drop a game) and Bo5 vs Modesty. | ||
|
GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
On February 02 2011 02:25 Evs wrote: Well represented at #2 but my question is the qualifier for #1: To be #1 Flash had to : perform well in WL (no participation in any other league)Fantasy had to : get the OSL gold, and perform well in WL. Being in 2 leagues actually worked against Fantasy here? Not advancing deep enough to participate in BOXs helped cement Flash's dominance in the scene? Because his BO1 record is enough to extrapolate the results of a BOX in an individual tournament? Such a lopsided standard means that Flash only needs to be dominant in one league at any given time to continue staying on top then. It only worked against him because he performed poorly in winner's league. If he'd played better, it'd have helped his ranking. | ||
|
HollowLord
United States3862 Posts
| ||
|
agarangu
Chile274 Posts
And those saying that Flash's place is undeserved, should see his recent games on youtube. He's been wining like he was playing against noobs (like his recent victory over Light). And he has defeated everybody on the league, including the rest of the players on the PR (unlike Bisu who still can't beat Stork). | ||
tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
| ||
|
SkelA
Macedonia13081 Posts
On February 02 2011 03:15 hacklebeast wrote: bisu: 15-4 losses to #1 player (in elo) and #1 protoss (other than himself in elo) stork 16-8 losses to #6, #7 #21 and # 35 (in elo) Horang2 skews it a bit because his PvP is a lot better than his other stuff, but the point is clear. Bisu only lost to damn good people. Stork lost a lot (I dare to say most losses of the month, but I haven't checked that). he doesnt "defete" bisu in win percentage, he doesn't "defeat" Bisu in all kills, he doesn't "defeat" Bisu in quality of opponents (certainly not in the losses, but we can call it a wash overall if you want). If the power rankings are superpose to be about "hotness" or "fearsomeness", then all I can say is getting 3 all kills is fearsome, losing to horang2 is not. And I'm not sure questioning the quality of the ace all-kill is a good idea, considering stork did some stat padding of his own with a Bo3 vs Hiya in his best MU (where he still managed to drop a game) and Bo5 vs Modesty. You are wrong in most of your opinions. Stork indeed lost to Fantasy and Zero who are both 2nd best TvP and ZvP players right now and his loss to horang2 was a pure snipe The week when he played those games he had personal issues and not to mention Fantasy prepared so hard to counter Stork so much that he forgot how to play against other Protoss and Zero well he just plays most awesome SC out of all zerg in my opinion if he is on top of his game. Bisu lost only Stork x3 and Flash but the quality of his oponents are indeed worse if you compare it with Stork and Flash oponents just on WL games. If you cant realise this then you have no idea about SC. Bisu gets 3 AK ( but I dont think Ace AK should be counted lol -.- ) and Stork gets 1reverse AK. Now lets see ... Bisu gets played constanly in 1st or 2nd position on SKT and Stork was 4th/Ace every game he played so there is less chance for AK than for example Bisu. And not to mention SKT supporting players and even Fantasy kinda suck lately compared to KHAN. And at last for you its better not to get far in SL and just own random scrubs in bo1 and lose to S class players in WL against going far in SL and lose badly against S oponents and still owning random scrubs + S class players in WL? Is this even a contest? I think not. | ||
|
reincremate
China2216 Posts
| ||
|
TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On February 02 2011 02:25 Evs wrote: Well represented at #2 but my question is the qualifier for #1: To be #1 Flash had to : perform well in WL (no participation in any other league)Fantasy had to : get the OSL gold, and perform well in WL. Being in 2 leagues actually worked against Fantasy here? Not advancing deep enough to participate in BOXs helped cement Flash's dominance in the scene? Because his BO1 record is enough to extrapolate the results of a BOX in an individual tournament? Such a lopsided standard means that Flash only needs to be dominant in one league at any given time to continue staying on top then. Nope, actually all fantasy had to do was not suck in every single game that wasn't the OSL finals. Even the games he won were absolute garbage. But he did absolutely crush Stork. | ||
|
Inzek
Chile802 Posts
mostly if a i had to bet for one player against the others, i will surely put all my money on flash (actually on jd but just cuz im a fanboy), next on stork, next on jd, next on bisu and then fantasy... i just cant feel scared with fantasy. But you cant deny that fantasy won an OSL and that has to count for something (hence i understand flame's logic)... under top 5 is just meaningless for me, my 2 fav players are top5 (stork, jd) so, good PR | ||
|
Gummy
United States2180 Posts
| ||
|
Musoeun
United States4324 Posts
On February 02 2011 03:15 hacklebeast wrote: bisu: 15-4 losses to #1 player (in elo) and #1 protoss (other than himself in elo) stork 16-8 losses to #6, #7 #21 and # 35 (in elo)... Here, let's over-analyze further:  Bisu: 15-4 (0-3 MSL, 15-1 WL)Stork: 16-8 (4-4 OSL, 2-3 MSL, 10-1 WL)Head to head: Bisu 0-4 StorkOne Common Opponent:  ZerO (Bisu 1-0, Stork 0-3)And for the hell of it, opponents vs P ELO (note: I'm using current ELO so results will be a little skewed): Bisu By.Baby (#29, 2068), Bogus (#10, 2121), Brave (#20, 2091), Calm (#5, 2168), firebathero (#50, 2024), Flash (#1, 2321), ggaemo (#55, 2021), hero (#40, 2045), Iris (#22, 2085), JangBi (#21, 2088), Kal (#14, 2107), M18M (#34, 2056), Pure (#18, 2096), RorO (#13, 2110), Shine (#32, 2067), Stork x3 (#17, 2100), ZerO (#6, 2168)Average ranking: 22.16 Average rating: 2102 (=#16) Stork Alone (#62, 1997), Bisu x3 (#4, 2185), Fantasy x4 (#3, 2200), HiyA x2 (#16, 2102), Horang2 (#8, 2137), Hydra (#9, 2129), HyuN (#49, 2026), Jaedong (#2, 2254), Jaehoon (#78, 1980), Killer (#58, 2016), Modesty x3 (#85, 1969), Sea (#7, 2156), Tyson (#31, 2067), ZerO (#6, 2168) x3Average ranking: 26.38 Average rating: 2113.83 (#12 > x > #13) aaaaand the result is inconclusive. Rank or rating? You decide. More fun: Bisu's vs rank: #4 (2185) vs P, #7 (2178) vs T, #3 (2276) vs Z. Comparing ranks/ratings, Bisu would have been expected to lose 1 game against the opponents he faced (Flash, loss) but lost 4 (3 losses to Stork). 3 unpredicted losses. Stork's vs rank: #17 (2100) vs P, #3 (2210) vs T, #5 (2186) vs Z. Comparing ranks/ratings, Stork would have been expected to lose 9 games against the opponents he faced* (Jaedong, win; fantasy, 1-3; Bisu, 3-0; Horang2, loss), but lost 8 (ZerO, 0-3, HiyA 1-1). 5 unpredicted wins, 4 unpredicted losses. And I still have no idea. BUT - numbers! * Not sure how to deal with fantasy here. His rating's clearly a little higher than it was due to the 3-0, but with a loss to Horang2 deflating it I'm not sure how much higher, so I'm avoiding speculation and just running with the numbers I've got. | ||
| ||
