• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:55
CEST 06:55
KST 13:55
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7
Community News
Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles2GSTL Returns in 2026!45Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-2212Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0
StarCraft 2
General
Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away SC4ALL II: SC2 Player Announcement 6/8 - Maru GSTL Returns in 2026! Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Serral wins Maestros of the Game 2
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) WORTEX 2026 - Hungarian SC2 Finals Budapest Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Fall 2026 GSTL Announcement
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 539 Thunder Dome Mutation # 538 Media Blackout Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory
Brood War
General
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Pros React To: First 'Fastest' Map in ASL History BW General Discussion [Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60 ASL22 General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro24 Group C Toronto invitational lan 22 august [ASL22] Ro24 Group A [ASL22] Ro24 Group B
Strategy
Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates Any training maps people recommend? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Dating: How's your luck? Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
The Creator Fan Club MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Young Players Exit Esports E…
TrAiDoS
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5794 users

Power Rank 10/01/2009 - Page 14

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
Post a Reply
Prev 1 12 13 14 15 16 23 Next All
SuperArc
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Austria7781 Posts
October 26 2009 18:23 GMT
#261
Hiya dominated Flash from start to finish. :p
Snow - future of protoss! :) Nada = baller
wswordsmen
Profile Joined October 2007
United States987 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-26 18:39:16
October 26 2009 18:39 GMT
#262
On October 27 2009 03:23 SuperArc wrote:
Hiya dominated Flash from start to finish. :p

I realize you will talk about the last time they met, but I will say this anyway.

Why are you posting on a game that won't be played for over 30 hours?
Orbifold
Profile Joined September 2008
United States1922 Posts
October 26 2009 19:09 GMT
#263
Oh my god, all this arguing is so nice after how boring last season was.
Allow me to reintroduce myself...
Salteador Neo
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Andorra5591 Posts
October 26 2009 19:31 GMT
#264
Ok Stork totally deserves a top10 spot now :D
Revolutionist fan
Oystein
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
Norway1602 Posts
October 27 2009 00:33 GMT
#265
Lolwut, I'm pretty sure even Bisu himself has said the bottom left position on Medusa is the most difficult in PvP. Here's a link if you really need it: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=91661

You're horribly dismissing how well Violet played that game. He was constantly ahead of Bisu's build order by nearly 20 seconds at every turn, and outplayed him in almost every situation but one (The big battle in the middle where Bisu's quad reavers came to clean up, but even that helped Violet win because he had to sac a lot of reavers to stay alive). I'm not making a LOT of his loss, I'm pointing out how I don't think he's as far ahead in PvP as you think.

Someone who was, at the time, would be Best during his godmode PvP run. Bisu is consistently excellent and has a great history, but hell I wouldn't even call him the best PvPer ever. That'd probably be Best in his prime.

While 6 is the worst position to have, I can guarantee you its advantages to play 6 vs 11. Having your entire main open for drops sort of hinders you from going fast nexus (while on the 6 pos he can much safer take his expo since he needs to cover a much smaller area of nearby flight paths), and leaves you totally open for harass along the entire bottom of your base. (If you want a good example of how this positional advantage can be abused go watch Bisu vs Stork from Batoo I think it is). In general having your main towards the enemy while he has his nat toward you is disadvantageous.

I never said anywhere that Violet didnt play well that game, because he played good. But I think you are vastly underestimating the big advantage he had after defending Bisus first push, both far ahead in eco and position being able to constantly drop and simply having the threat of drop forcing Bisu to leave a lot more defense in his main\3rd than Violet would need in his own since its waaay longer to move around the map to drop his main\3rd without the fear of running into goons in the center.

While Best 16 game win streak is absolutely insane I don`t understand how you can rate a 33 game hot streak(With lots of losses that is not counted into official games from offline qualifiers I might add) without much BOx tests (Tho I will say that he never should have lost that OSL bo3 vs Stork had it not been for the uberimba positions he got on Fantasy) above 2 years of consistent dominance in the matchup including only have lost series to a single player (including being 3-0 vs the one you rate the highest). Tho this point I guess its up to each person what they rate the highest, streaks or consistency? For me at least showing consistency over time (and a big number of games) trumps shorter (and more likely to be flukes) runs.

As for what matchup is hardest to be good at I don`t really have that much of an opinion as I think its probably equally hard to be good at both. Also beside Best, Nal_Ra is the only one on a double digit win PvP with a 10game streak, with Bisu on 3rd with 9game streak and no one else above 7 games that I could find (tho I only checked 6-7 people who I think could have achieved it), so its not like its easier to perform well in PvP than its in TvT, statistically at least.

I guess we just have to agree we have different opinions and accept that none of us will back down on their opinion.
God Hates a Coward
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
October 27 2009 01:10 GMT
#266
Well, you do have a T1 emblem and I do have a KT emblem.
Remember Violet.
Hinanawi
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2250 Posts
October 27 2009 01:17 GMT
#267
You guys are going to jinx Flash so hard. He still has to play a TvT against Hiya, (and possibly prepare for an ace against Jaedong), and then either a TvT or TvZ an hour later that same night. It's not over yet.

If KT aren't dicks they'll have Luxury prepare for ace instead tomorrow so that Flash can focus on his OSL match.
Favorite progamers (in order): Flash, Stork, Violet, Sea. ||| Get better soon, Violet!
Lebesgue
Profile Joined October 2008
4542 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-27 03:16:51
October 27 2009 03:16 GMT
#268
On October 27 2009 10:17 Hinanawi wrote:
You guys are going to jinx Flash so hard. He still has to play a TvT against Hiya, (and possibly prepare for an ace against Jaedong), and then either a TvT or TvZ an hour later that same night. It's not over yet.

If KT aren't dicks they'll have Luxury prepare for ace instead tomorrow so that Flash can focus on his OSL match.


I am really pissed they fielded Flash on Tuesday. Will they ever fucking learn from the past. They have enough decent player to challenge Oz. Violet, Luxury, HoeJJa, Stats, ForGG should be enough to have a decent chance to take the game on Tuesday. But no, they have to send Flash... Sigh...

I am really really worried about tomorrow...
fanatacist
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
10319 Posts
October 27 2009 04:18 GMT
#269
Flash is their only guaranteed win (unless he faces Jaedong), with Luxury being in a similar position but clearly not up to Flash's level. In Asian culture, the whole/group is usually valued greater than the individual, and I wouldn't be surprised if progaming teams were the same. Hence, PL > OSL/MSL. Hence, Flash's chances at OSL/MSL (in terms of how overworked he is) are set just because he is the best player on KT.
Peace~
Hinanawi
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2250 Posts
October 27 2009 04:30 GMT
#270
Calm is STX's ace, but he's not being sent out tonight even though he has nothing at all to play after the matches.

Surely KT could stand to try ONE night without Flash when he has an important OSL game the same night.
Favorite progamers (in order): Flash, Stork, Violet, Sea. ||| Get better soon, Violet!
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
October 27 2009 04:34 GMT
#271
Not when they're playing a team that historically stomps them when Flash doesn't get to all kill Oz.
Remember Violet.
fanatacist
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
10319 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-27 04:37:12
October 27 2009 04:36 GMT
#272
Apparently not. I think KT gauges its abilities better than we do, and I also think that just because their priorities disagree with ours, it's because we lack perspective. To continue as a team, the team must be successful to maintain sponsors and income. KT has just underwent a few name changes, which I'm sure is in part due to their need for a new image/because of a new investor. In order to maintain that image/financial support, they must maintain their winning record in order to best secure a spot in the play-offs. Individual league winnings no longer are completely re-invested in the team as they used to be before (in certain cases at least), so clearly the team will value individual leagues less, which means Flash is forced to prioritize them lower.
Peace~
Tyxiquale
Profile Joined September 2008
Australia424 Posts
October 27 2009 05:36 GMT
#273
Since flash has been practising vZ and vT nonstop for the past month, perhaps he feels confident against anyone oz throws at him..

if he was to end up against backho, and although backho beat flash last time, its unlikely that flash would feel scared or intimidated.. I mean.. its backbo.. lol
Dumb people don't know that they're dumb.
tedster
Profile Joined May 2009
984 Posts
October 27 2009 05:48 GMT
#274
On October 27 2009 13:30 Hinanawi wrote:
Calm is STX's ace, but he's not being sent out tonight even though he has nothing at all to play after the matches.

Surely KT could stand to try ONE night without Flash when he has an important OSL game the same night.


Calm's team is excellent though, and they're going to make the playoffs regardless (and probably get a top spot) so it makes sense for them to play other players and develop the lineup as much as possible. KT has to field forGG, and that's just depressing on many levels.

I think KT has a sense of desperation (especially after last season) that is going to force them to play for the "now" as opposed to the long term. They really underperformed last season and the coach, at the very least, has to feel driven to push for wins at every step of the way now.
the last wcs commissioner
nodule
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada931 Posts
October 27 2009 07:21 GMT
#275
Too many of Flash's games have gone over the 20 minutes marks, that shows a decline in skill imo.


Since a difference in skill is more marked the longer a game progresses, i disagree.
Tyxiquale
Profile Joined September 2008
Australia424 Posts
October 27 2009 07:33 GMT
#276
On October 27 2009 16:21 nodule wrote:
Show nested quote +
Too many of Flash's games have gone over the 20 minutes marks, that shows a decline in skill imo.


Since a difference in skill is more marked the longer a game progresses, i disagree.


er.. i believe that was sarcasm
Dumb people don't know that they're dumb.
fanatacist
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
10319 Posts
October 27 2009 14:11 GMT
#277
On October 27 2009 16:21 nodule wrote:
Show nested quote +
Too many of Flash's games have gone over the 20 minutes marks, that shows a decline in skill imo.


Since a difference in skill is more marked the longer a game progresses, i disagree.

Not only were you wrong, you also failed to see the sarcasm in his post. GG internets
Peace~
baubo
Profile Joined September 2008
China3370 Posts
October 27 2009 14:20 GMT
#278
On October 27 2009 12:16 Lebesgue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2009 10:17 Hinanawi wrote:
You guys are going to jinx Flash so hard. He still has to play a TvT against Hiya, (and possibly prepare for an ace against Jaedong), and then either a TvT or TvZ an hour later that same night. It's not over yet.

If KT aren't dicks they'll have Luxury prepare for ace instead tomorrow so that Flash can focus on his OSL match.


I am really pissed they fielded Flash on Tuesday. Will they ever fucking learn from the past. They have enough decent player to challenge Oz. Violet, Luxury, HoeJJa, Stats, ForGG should be enough to have a decent chance to take the game on Tuesday. But no, they have to send Flash... Sigh...

I am really really worried about tomorrow...


TBH, sending a player out for games doesn't make him overworked. PRACTICING NONESTOP for games do that. As long as Flash is not working overtime for both the OSL and the PL, it really doesn't matter really. I mean, Stork always talks about how he doesn't even practice for certain SL matches when he's overloaded in terms of scheduling.

Flash just needs to learn to pace himself in terms of practice.
Meh
Severedevil
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4839 Posts
October 27 2009 14:46 GMT
#279
On October 27 2009 23:20 baubo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2009 12:16 Lebesgue wrote:
On October 27 2009 10:17 Hinanawi wrote:
You guys are going to jinx Flash so hard. He still has to play a TvT against Hiya, (and possibly prepare for an ace against Jaedong), and then either a TvT or TvZ an hour later that same night. It's not over yet.

If KT aren't dicks they'll have Luxury prepare for ace instead tomorrow so that Flash can focus on his OSL match.


I am really pissed they fielded Flash on Tuesday. Will they ever fucking learn from the past. They have enough decent player to challenge Oz. Violet, Luxury, HoeJJa, Stats, ForGG should be enough to have a decent chance to take the game on Tuesday. But no, they have to send Flash... Sigh...

I am really really worried about tomorrow...


TBH, sending a player out for games doesn't make him overworked. PRACTICING NONESTOP for games do that. As long as Flash is not working overtime for both the OSL and the PL, it really doesn't matter really. I mean, Stork always talks about how he doesn't even practice for certain SL matches when he's overloaded in terms of scheduling.

Flash just needs to learn to pace himself in terms of practice.

The downside is, minimal practice is the easiest way for powerful players to drop games and BoX sets.
My strategy is to fork people.
Orbifold
Profile Joined September 2008
United States1922 Posts
October 27 2009 17:44 GMT
#280
I'm not too worried about Flash tonight, normally I would be biting my nails now... but the guy has just looked unstoppable lately.
Allow me to reintroduce myself...
Prev 1 12 13 14 15 16 23 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5h 5m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 185
ProTech120
Nina 68
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 23363
Bale 107
Noble 51
Icarus 9
Dota 2
The International92184
Gorgc5201
NeuroSwarm159
League of Legends
JimRising 745
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King68
Other Games
summit1g7122
WinterStarcraft385
C9.Mang0320
hungrybox257
ViBE152
amsayoshi20
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick703
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH413
• davetesta12
• practicex 12
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki25
• iopq 11
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• Noizen27
League of Legends
• Lourlo951
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5h 5m
PiG Sty Festival
7h 5m
Solar vs Reynor
Serral vs TBD
OSC
11h 5m
Afreeca Starleague
1d 5h
hero vs ggaemo
Larva vs Mong
The Patches Monday
1d 11h
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Soulkey vs PianO
JyJ vs sSak
GSL
2 days
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Mini vs Calm
Queen vs EffOrt
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
5 days
GSL
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S3: W8
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 1
RSL Revival: Season 6
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
META DYMY #4
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

CSL Season 22: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Calamity Invitational
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.