• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 14:24
CET 20:24
KST 04:24
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced12[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge2
StarCraft 2
General
Information Request Regarding Chinese Ladder BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA When will we find out if there are more tournament Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win
Tourneys
$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest RSL Revival: Season 3 Tenacious Turtle Tussle [Alpha Pro Series] Nice vs Cure
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation
Brood War
General
FlaSh's Valkyrie Copium BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone Which season is the best in ASL?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO16 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? Current Meta PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread The Perfect Game Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread The Big Programming Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Where to ask questions and add stream? The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Esports Earnings: Bigger Pri…
TrAiDoS
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2413 users

Power Rank 10/01/2009 - Page 14

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
Post a Reply
Prev 1 12 13 14 15 16 23 Next All
SuperArc
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Austria7781 Posts
October 26 2009 18:23 GMT
#261
Hiya dominated Flash from start to finish. :p
Snow - future of protoss! :) Nada = baller
wswordsmen
Profile Joined October 2007
United States987 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-26 18:39:16
October 26 2009 18:39 GMT
#262
On October 27 2009 03:23 SuperArc wrote:
Hiya dominated Flash from start to finish. :p

I realize you will talk about the last time they met, but I will say this anyway.

Why are you posting on a game that won't be played for over 30 hours?
Orbifold
Profile Joined September 2008
United States1922 Posts
October 26 2009 19:09 GMT
#263
Oh my god, all this arguing is so nice after how boring last season was.
Allow me to reintroduce myself...
Salteador Neo
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Andorra5591 Posts
October 26 2009 19:31 GMT
#264
Ok Stork totally deserves a top10 spot now :D
Revolutionist fan
Oystein
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
Norway1602 Posts
October 27 2009 00:33 GMT
#265
Lolwut, I'm pretty sure even Bisu himself has said the bottom left position on Medusa is the most difficult in PvP. Here's a link if you really need it: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=91661

You're horribly dismissing how well Violet played that game. He was constantly ahead of Bisu's build order by nearly 20 seconds at every turn, and outplayed him in almost every situation but one (The big battle in the middle where Bisu's quad reavers came to clean up, but even that helped Violet win because he had to sac a lot of reavers to stay alive). I'm not making a LOT of his loss, I'm pointing out how I don't think he's as far ahead in PvP as you think.

Someone who was, at the time, would be Best during his godmode PvP run. Bisu is consistently excellent and has a great history, but hell I wouldn't even call him the best PvPer ever. That'd probably be Best in his prime.

While 6 is the worst position to have, I can guarantee you its advantages to play 6 vs 11. Having your entire main open for drops sort of hinders you from going fast nexus (while on the 6 pos he can much safer take his expo since he needs to cover a much smaller area of nearby flight paths), and leaves you totally open for harass along the entire bottom of your base. (If you want a good example of how this positional advantage can be abused go watch Bisu vs Stork from Batoo I think it is). In general having your main towards the enemy while he has his nat toward you is disadvantageous.

I never said anywhere that Violet didnt play well that game, because he played good. But I think you are vastly underestimating the big advantage he had after defending Bisus first push, both far ahead in eco and position being able to constantly drop and simply having the threat of drop forcing Bisu to leave a lot more defense in his main\3rd than Violet would need in his own since its waaay longer to move around the map to drop his main\3rd without the fear of running into goons in the center.

While Best 16 game win streak is absolutely insane I don`t understand how you can rate a 33 game hot streak(With lots of losses that is not counted into official games from offline qualifiers I might add) without much BOx tests (Tho I will say that he never should have lost that OSL bo3 vs Stork had it not been for the uberimba positions he got on Fantasy) above 2 years of consistent dominance in the matchup including only have lost series to a single player (including being 3-0 vs the one you rate the highest). Tho this point I guess its up to each person what they rate the highest, streaks or consistency? For me at least showing consistency over time (and a big number of games) trumps shorter (and more likely to be flukes) runs.

As for what matchup is hardest to be good at I don`t really have that much of an opinion as I think its probably equally hard to be good at both. Also beside Best, Nal_Ra is the only one on a double digit win PvP with a 10game streak, with Bisu on 3rd with 9game streak and no one else above 7 games that I could find (tho I only checked 6-7 people who I think could have achieved it), so its not like its easier to perform well in PvP than its in TvT, statistically at least.

I guess we just have to agree we have different opinions and accept that none of us will back down on their opinion.
God Hates a Coward
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
October 27 2009 01:10 GMT
#266
Well, you do have a T1 emblem and I do have a KT emblem.
Remember Violet.
Hinanawi
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2250 Posts
October 27 2009 01:17 GMT
#267
You guys are going to jinx Flash so hard. He still has to play a TvT against Hiya, (and possibly prepare for an ace against Jaedong), and then either a TvT or TvZ an hour later that same night. It's not over yet.

If KT aren't dicks they'll have Luxury prepare for ace instead tomorrow so that Flash can focus on his OSL match.
Favorite progamers (in order): Flash, Stork, Violet, Sea. ||| Get better soon, Violet!
Lebesgue
Profile Joined October 2008
4542 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-27 03:16:51
October 27 2009 03:16 GMT
#268
On October 27 2009 10:17 Hinanawi wrote:
You guys are going to jinx Flash so hard. He still has to play a TvT against Hiya, (and possibly prepare for an ace against Jaedong), and then either a TvT or TvZ an hour later that same night. It's not over yet.

If KT aren't dicks they'll have Luxury prepare for ace instead tomorrow so that Flash can focus on his OSL match.


I am really pissed they fielded Flash on Tuesday. Will they ever fucking learn from the past. They have enough decent player to challenge Oz. Violet, Luxury, HoeJJa, Stats, ForGG should be enough to have a decent chance to take the game on Tuesday. But no, they have to send Flash... Sigh...

I am really really worried about tomorrow...
fanatacist
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
10319 Posts
October 27 2009 04:18 GMT
#269
Flash is their only guaranteed win (unless he faces Jaedong), with Luxury being in a similar position but clearly not up to Flash's level. In Asian culture, the whole/group is usually valued greater than the individual, and I wouldn't be surprised if progaming teams were the same. Hence, PL > OSL/MSL. Hence, Flash's chances at OSL/MSL (in terms of how overworked he is) are set just because he is the best player on KT.
Peace~
Hinanawi
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2250 Posts
October 27 2009 04:30 GMT
#270
Calm is STX's ace, but he's not being sent out tonight even though he has nothing at all to play after the matches.

Surely KT could stand to try ONE night without Flash when he has an important OSL game the same night.
Favorite progamers (in order): Flash, Stork, Violet, Sea. ||| Get better soon, Violet!
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
October 27 2009 04:34 GMT
#271
Not when they're playing a team that historically stomps them when Flash doesn't get to all kill Oz.
Remember Violet.
fanatacist
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
10319 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-27 04:37:12
October 27 2009 04:36 GMT
#272
Apparently not. I think KT gauges its abilities better than we do, and I also think that just because their priorities disagree with ours, it's because we lack perspective. To continue as a team, the team must be successful to maintain sponsors and income. KT has just underwent a few name changes, which I'm sure is in part due to their need for a new image/because of a new investor. In order to maintain that image/financial support, they must maintain their winning record in order to best secure a spot in the play-offs. Individual league winnings no longer are completely re-invested in the team as they used to be before (in certain cases at least), so clearly the team will value individual leagues less, which means Flash is forced to prioritize them lower.
Peace~
Tyxiquale
Profile Joined September 2008
Australia424 Posts
October 27 2009 05:36 GMT
#273
Since flash has been practising vZ and vT nonstop for the past month, perhaps he feels confident against anyone oz throws at him..

if he was to end up against backho, and although backho beat flash last time, its unlikely that flash would feel scared or intimidated.. I mean.. its backbo.. lol
Dumb people don't know that they're dumb.
tedster
Profile Joined May 2009
984 Posts
October 27 2009 05:48 GMT
#274
On October 27 2009 13:30 Hinanawi wrote:
Calm is STX's ace, but he's not being sent out tonight even though he has nothing at all to play after the matches.

Surely KT could stand to try ONE night without Flash when he has an important OSL game the same night.


Calm's team is excellent though, and they're going to make the playoffs regardless (and probably get a top spot) so it makes sense for them to play other players and develop the lineup as much as possible. KT has to field forGG, and that's just depressing on many levels.

I think KT has a sense of desperation (especially after last season) that is going to force them to play for the "now" as opposed to the long term. They really underperformed last season and the coach, at the very least, has to feel driven to push for wins at every step of the way now.
the last wcs commissioner
nodule
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada931 Posts
October 27 2009 07:21 GMT
#275
Too many of Flash's games have gone over the 20 minutes marks, that shows a decline in skill imo.


Since a difference in skill is more marked the longer a game progresses, i disagree.
Tyxiquale
Profile Joined September 2008
Australia424 Posts
October 27 2009 07:33 GMT
#276
On October 27 2009 16:21 nodule wrote:
Show nested quote +
Too many of Flash's games have gone over the 20 minutes marks, that shows a decline in skill imo.


Since a difference in skill is more marked the longer a game progresses, i disagree.


er.. i believe that was sarcasm
Dumb people don't know that they're dumb.
fanatacist
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
10319 Posts
October 27 2009 14:11 GMT
#277
On October 27 2009 16:21 nodule wrote:
Show nested quote +
Too many of Flash's games have gone over the 20 minutes marks, that shows a decline in skill imo.


Since a difference in skill is more marked the longer a game progresses, i disagree.

Not only were you wrong, you also failed to see the sarcasm in his post. GG internets
Peace~
baubo
Profile Joined September 2008
China3370 Posts
October 27 2009 14:20 GMT
#278
On October 27 2009 12:16 Lebesgue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2009 10:17 Hinanawi wrote:
You guys are going to jinx Flash so hard. He still has to play a TvT against Hiya, (and possibly prepare for an ace against Jaedong), and then either a TvT or TvZ an hour later that same night. It's not over yet.

If KT aren't dicks they'll have Luxury prepare for ace instead tomorrow so that Flash can focus on his OSL match.


I am really pissed they fielded Flash on Tuesday. Will they ever fucking learn from the past. They have enough decent player to challenge Oz. Violet, Luxury, HoeJJa, Stats, ForGG should be enough to have a decent chance to take the game on Tuesday. But no, they have to send Flash... Sigh...

I am really really worried about tomorrow...


TBH, sending a player out for games doesn't make him overworked. PRACTICING NONESTOP for games do that. As long as Flash is not working overtime for both the OSL and the PL, it really doesn't matter really. I mean, Stork always talks about how he doesn't even practice for certain SL matches when he's overloaded in terms of scheduling.

Flash just needs to learn to pace himself in terms of practice.
Meh
Severedevil
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4839 Posts
October 27 2009 14:46 GMT
#279
On October 27 2009 23:20 baubo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2009 12:16 Lebesgue wrote:
On October 27 2009 10:17 Hinanawi wrote:
You guys are going to jinx Flash so hard. He still has to play a TvT against Hiya, (and possibly prepare for an ace against Jaedong), and then either a TvT or TvZ an hour later that same night. It's not over yet.

If KT aren't dicks they'll have Luxury prepare for ace instead tomorrow so that Flash can focus on his OSL match.


I am really pissed they fielded Flash on Tuesday. Will they ever fucking learn from the past. They have enough decent player to challenge Oz. Violet, Luxury, HoeJJa, Stats, ForGG should be enough to have a decent chance to take the game on Tuesday. But no, they have to send Flash... Sigh...

I am really really worried about tomorrow...


TBH, sending a player out for games doesn't make him overworked. PRACTICING NONESTOP for games do that. As long as Flash is not working overtime for both the OSL and the PL, it really doesn't matter really. I mean, Stork always talks about how he doesn't even practice for certain SL matches when he's overloaded in terms of scheduling.

Flash just needs to learn to pace himself in terms of practice.

The downside is, minimal practice is the easiest way for powerful players to drop games and BoX sets.
My strategy is to fork people.
Orbifold
Profile Joined September 2008
United States1922 Posts
October 27 2009 17:44 GMT
#280
I'm not too worried about Flash tonight, normally I would be biting my nails now... but the guy has just looked unstoppable lately.
Allow me to reintroduce myself...
Prev 1 12 13 14 15 16 23 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 36m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 655
Livibee 126
DisKSc2 26
JuggernautJason2
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3876
Rain 1603
Shuttle 582
firebathero 277
Dewaltoss 138
hero 95
sas.Sziky 72
Mong 43
Dota 2
Gorgc7319
singsing2568
syndereN306
Counter-Strike
fl0m5346
zeus1273
allub90
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu467
Other Games
Grubby4829
FrodaN3329
Mlord807
B2W.Neo534
Fuzer 176
ArmadaUGS137
QueenE61
mouzStarbuck29
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick9324
EGCTV1851
BasetradeTV79
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream70
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 38
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• Ler121
League of Legends
• HappyZerGling151
Other Games
• imaqtpie1297
• WagamamaTV340
• Shiphtur316
Upcoming Events
BSL 21
36m
Hawk vs Kyrie
spx vs Cross
Replay Cast
4h 36m
Wardi Open
16h 36m
Monday Night Weeklies
21h 36m
StarCraft2.fi
21h 36m
Replay Cast
1d 4h
Wardi Open
1d 16h
StarCraft2.fi
1d 21h
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
[ Show More ]
StarCraft2.fi
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
SC Evo League
5 days
BSL 21
6 days
Sziky vs OyAji
Gypsy vs eOnzErG
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-28
RSL Revival: Season 3
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
Slon Tour Season 2
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
Kuram Kup
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.