• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:07
CEST 05:07
KST 12:07
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Ro4 Preview: Storied Rivals1Code S RO12 Preview: Maru, Trigger, Rogue, NightMare12Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, sOs, Reynor, Solar15[ASL19] Ro8 Preview: Unyielding3Official Ladder Map Pool Update (April 28, 2025)17
Community News
Maru & Rogue GSL RO12 interviews: "I think the pressure really got to [trigger]"5Code S Season 1 - Maru & Rogue advance to RO80Code S Season 1 - Cure & Reynor advance to RO84$1,250 WardiTV May [May 6th-May 18th]5Clem wins PiG Sty Festival #67
StarCraft 2
General
I hope balance council is prepping final balance Map Pool Suggestion: Throwback ERA How does the number of casters affect your enjoyment of esports? Maru & Rogue GSL RO12 interviews: "I think the pressure really got to [trigger]" Code S Season 1 - Maru & Rogue advance to RO8
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament [GSL 2025] Code S:Season 1 - RO12 - Group B [GSL 2025] Code S:Season 1 - RO12 - Group A $1,250 WardiTV May [May 6th-May 18th] SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025
Strategy
[G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 473 Cold is the Void Mutation # 472 Dead Heat Mutation # 471 Delivery Guaranteed Mutation # 470 Certain Demise
Brood War
General
[ASL19] Ro4 Preview: Storied Rivals Battlenet Game Lobby Simulator Twitch StarCraft Holiday Bash (UMS) Artosis vs Ogre Zerg [The Legend Continues] BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL19] Semifinal A [ASL19] Ro8 Day 4 [USBL Spring 2025] Groups cast [BSL20] RO32 Group F - Saturday 20:00 CET
Strategy
[G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player Creating a full chart of Zerg builds [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
What do you want from future RTS games? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Grand Theft Auto VI Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Plays: Diplomacy TL Mafia: Generative Agents Showdown Survivor II: The Amazon
Community
General
Canadian Politics Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Books] Wool by Hugh Howey Surprisingly good films/Hidden Gems
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread NHL Playoffs 2024 NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL.net Ten Commandments
Blogs
Why 5v5 Games Keep Us Hooked…
TrAiDoS
Info SLEgma_12
SLEgma_12
SECOND COMMING
XenOsky
WombaT’s Old BW Terran Theme …
WombaT
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
BW PvZ Balance hypothetic…
Vasoline73
Test Entry for subject
xumakis
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 13627 users

[OSL] Death of Dreams

Forum Index > News
68 CommentsPost a Reply
Normal

[OSL] Death of Dreams

Text byPlexa
March 26th, 2009 12:11 GMT
[image loading]

We found it!! Thanks zxK3

OSL Semifinal B


It's been a while since there's been an OSL update, and that's for a multitude of reasons. Nevertheless, the grand OSL ship is back on course for the final few weeks of the tournament. Over the past two weeks we've had a number of results and incidents occurring. Remember, the best way to stay up to speed with the OSL is the OSL R&S Thread which is maintained by GrandInquisitor. This post will bring you up to speed with the goings on in the Round of 8, and what happened in Semifinal A between Bisu and Fantasy. We also have Semifinal B to preview, which is shaping up to be awesome, so let's get right into it!


Round of 8


The Round of 8 is where the competition steps up its game and things really get going. The round of 8 this season looked as sharp as ever - featuring Bisu, Best, Stork, Fantasy, Luxury, Jaedong, Hwasin and by.hero - your usual mix of veterans, newcomers and beasts. Inside the spoilers are results, and battle reports of some of the games written by DoctorHelvetica and Kwark. So let's see how things went down;

+ Show Spoiler [Ro8-A - Bisu vs BeSt] +
+ Show Spoiler [Game 1] +
Battle Report by DoctorHelvetica

BeSt spawns the purple protoss in the top right, Bisu the blue protoss in the bottom left. The camera zooms in on two audience members in horse masks, the match was so exciting even animals came to view it. The commentators have a hearty chuckle and return to the game. Both players mirror 1 gate range builds.

Bisu manner pylons with his scout, while BeSt's scout is chased out of Bisu's base. Bisu's probe continues to survive, and with a slightly faster dragoon, Bisu moves out for slight pressure, killing BeSt's probe in the center of the map, then Bisu retreats. Bisu's buildings are all seconds ahead, while both players add a robotics.

Both players mirror builds exactly, both adding observatory followed by support bay at the exact same timing. BeSt is the first to deviate, adding a faster expansion than Bisu. Bisu snipes one of BeSt's wandering observers and BeSt moves out with his reavers, moving his Dragoons to the center of the map. BeSt however, can't break into Bisu's main and retreats his shuttle. Bisu takes the opportunity to push out, his shuttle containing two reavers. The armies engage in BeSt's natural, but Bisu's force and micro is too strong. BeSt's army comes out short and he taps out. GG.

Bisu had the clear advantage from the beginning, chasing BeSt's probe out of his base and blocking his ramp with the zealot. BeSt made no huge effort to get back inside Bisu's base, correctly expecting mirror builds, but it is not unlikely the truncation of his intelligence made him uncomfortable.

Bisu's manner pylon was in great position, and it took quite a few probes and the zealot chasing Bisu's scout to take it down. In the meantime, Bisu had clear vision of all of BeSt's moves, his scouting probe alive for an obscene amount of time. The manner pylon also resulted in a small but important (especially in mirror match-ups) advantage, in unit count and economy.

The observer snipe was another seemingly small but significant blow to BeSt's game and his psyche. Bisu's defensive posture made the reaver unable to deal damage in Bisu's base. Bisu seized the moment to move out, knowing BeSt might not move his shuttle back in time, also knowing that BeSt most likely has 1 reaver versus Bisu's 2.

When Bisu's army arrives, pushing BeSt from the center to his natural, the unit advantage was clearly in Bisu's favor. Eventually, BeSt's earlier expansion would result in his advantage, but Bisu's timing was absolutely impeccable. BeSt was forced to move his 2nd reaver down his ramp which was quickly sniped, and Bisu's 2 unharmed reavers cleaned up BeSt's entire army.
+ Show Spoiler [Game 2] +
Battle Report by Kwark

As the commentators hyped the second game they showed us some stats. Bisu is 90% in his last 10 games including a convincing win against BeSt. BeSt is 40% over the last 10 games.
Bisu spawned in white at 2 on Tears of the Moon whereas BeSt took red at 10. BeSt opted for the scout on 10 psi whereas Bisu held it until 12 but they both used the same build (8p, 10g, 11a, 12z 15p, 17 manner p) anyway. The early zealots forced the manner pylons to sell and both players went for a second zealot and core with identical timing. Early gas with a delayed core gave both players a big gas surplus allowing for extremely rapid midgame teching, something both exploited with a simultaneous range, dragoon and robo. However while Bisu made a quick second gateway and opted for observers BeSt stayed on 1 gate and went instead for shuttle and reavers. Dragoons denied scouting as Bisu went for a quick expansion and 2 gate goons holding the high ground while BeSt went for a highly aggressive 3 gate goon reaver build with speedshuttle. Unfortunately for him he failed to realise that Bisu had expanded so quickly and wasted valuable time attempting drops along obvious routes where Bisu had left observers in wait.
Although he didn't lose his reaver he did no damage and each second he delayed Bisu lengthened his army advantage with his 2 base macro.

Finally BeSt readied himself for the battle but Bisu had observers everywhere (25 minerals each and an idle robo) and was able to reposition his entire army to face him. Despite excellent shuttle micro Bisu's goons overwhelmed BeSt and took the win.

I like Bisu's build here, the high ground outside the nats favours early expansions defended by goons and his robo purely for obs didn't just serve to make him safe against darks but also reavers. Had BeSt immediately pushed with his army and first reaver when he still had the unit advantage he might have won it, but Bisu was probably familiar enough with BeSt's style to gamble on BeSt attempting shuttle harass which could never work with Bisu's observer network. Bisu exploited BeSt's build well, and he did it blind. An impressive game, teammate ones generally are.
+ Show Spoiler [Game 3] +
Not needed

+ Show Spoiler [Results] +
(P)Bisu > (P)BeSt @ Sin Chupung-Ryeong
(P)Bisu > (P)BeSt @ Tears of the Moon

(P)Bisu 2-0 (P)BeSt

+ Show Spoiler [Ro8-B - Fantasy vs Luxury] +
+ Show Spoiler [Game 1] +
Battle Report by DoctorHelvetica

Fantasy spawns the white terran in the right position, Luxury the blue zerg at the bottom. Fantasy builds his first supply at the choke, intending to wall-in. A Fantasy look-alike is shown in the audience, to the surprise of the commentators. The wall-in finished before the drone scout. Fantasy gets an early gas with the intention of a mechanical build.

An overlord gets through, scouting Fantasy's early gas, although Luxury probably expected mech from him. Fantasy expands after his first factory is finished. Fantasy soon adds a starport, to my excitement, because I love the Fantasy build. Luxury is playing very greedy, building few lings and getting a fast lair.

Luxury smartly blocks with a hydralisk den to prevent a vulture runby, preventing Fantasy from doing damage with the initial bike. Luxury morphs his spire. Fantasy builds a single wraith then adds an engineering bay and control tower. Both players have low units and a lot of tech, opting for a strong late-game rather than being aggressive early, although Fantasy seems intent on harassing.

Fantasy throws down an armory and some turrets in his base and with the armory finished he also gets a single valk. Luxury takes his 3rd base while macroing mutaling and Fantasy soon scouts it. Luxury moves forward with a lot of mutalisks and 2 lurkers, but significantly loses his lurkers to mines on the map. A disappointed look on his face, Luxury carries on. Valkyries and turrets however, cause the mutalisks to melt quickly and Luxury is forced to move back.

Fantasy adds barracks in his base, hoping to whip up a sizeable force for an assault on Luxury's base. Mutalisks attack Fantasy's main mineral line, scourge keeping the valkyries at bay while Luxury destroys turrets. The valks force Luxury out, but in the meantime Luxury is building a mean lurker force. Lurkers eliminate the temple in Fantasy's main, while Luxury distracts with muta harass. Lurkers and mutas run up the ramp and right into Fantasy's small army on the cliff.

Fantasy eliminated the lurkers, but Luxury continues to keep Fantasy's SCV count at a pathetic rate. Luxury breaks the turrets at Fantasy's natural, and continues muta harass in both sections of Fantasy's base. Fantasy moves valkyries out to chase mutas out of his nat, but his Valkyries defense force is sniped by scourge, leaving Luxury free to be as mobile as he likes, severely disadvantaging Fantasy who was already in an almost unwinnable position.

Luxury's final mutalisk break proves to be undefendable by Fantasy's pathetic army, he loses all his valkryies to scourge and leaves the game. GG.

Both players opted for a low unit, high tech early game. Fantasy does the Valkyrie/biomech build he does best. Luxury makes many careless mistakes in the beginning, losing mutalisks and lurkers to mines, putting Fantasy at an advantage. However the mass mutalisk by Luxury proves to be a very apt counter against Fantasy's low tech build.

The layout of Medusa makes it difficult to defend muta harass without a lot of turrets, so Fantasy's valkyries are a mobile option to defend the mutalisks. Once the muta harass is done, the Fantasy should have caught up with his tech and roll Luxury. However, poor turret placement (placing turrets on the high ground to defend the mineral line and cliff), poor supply placement (supply's on cliff easily sniped), poor tank placement (undefended and destroyed by mutalisks easily) gave Luxury the luxury (pun intended) of having an effective muta harass/contain.

The marine force which Fantasy creates is not able to defend well due to the low medic count and Luxury is able to contain Fantasy while taking 4-5 expansions. Fantasy can't leave his base to do damage because his unit mix will be destroyed completely by the mass mutalisk, he hardly has the economy to build enough valkyries to comfortably move out or reach critical mass, and Luxury's muta micro forces Fantasy to split up his forces and move all around his large base.

The lurkers on the cliff sealed the deal, destroying any hopes Fantasy had of an apt counter force. Fantasy was stupid not to turret the cliff, and the build he chose was unable to respond to the mutalisk contain. Luxury soon raped Fantasy with overwhelming mutalisk numbers and Fantasy leaves the game. gg
+ Show Spoiler [Game 2] +
Not Available
Fantasy > Luxury
+ Show Spoiler [Game 3] +
Not Available
Fantasy > Luxury

+ Show Spoiler [Results] +
(Z)Luxury > (T)fantasy @ Medusa
(Z)Luxury < (T)fantasy @ Return of the King
(Z)Luxury < (T)fantasy @ Sin Chupung-Ryeong

(Z)Luxury 1-2 (T)fantasy

+ Show Spoiler [Ro8-C - Hwasin vs Hero] +
No battle reports available

(Z)by.hero > (T)Hwasin @ Tears of the Moon
(Z)by.hero < (T)Hwasin @ Medusa
(Z)by.hero > (T)Hwasin @ Return of the King

(Z)by.hero 2-1 (T)Hwasin

+ Show Spoiler [Ro8-D - Stork vs Jaedong] +
+ Show Spoiler [Game 1] +
No Battle Report
Stork > Jaedong
+ Show Spoiler [Game 2] +
Battle Report by Kwark

Stork opens by sending out one of his first 4 probes for a proxy build. Carefully avoiding the overlord route he places a pylon in JD's nat and then proceeds to wall JD in with a forge and a gateway. Very sexy opening, extremely weak to fast pool builds but clearly Stork felt that JD would almost certainly go for 12 hat and that he was 1-0 up anyway. I liked it as an opening but Stork handled it very badly. Firstly, he chose to play cannons vs sunkens uphill, not a game he could win. Instead of simply building his cannons far enough back to be safe and hold the wall he wasted 3 of them. Because of this he could not hold both lines of defence, keeping his main safe from muta and the zerg contained. Mutaling could always hit the proxy cannons and Stork needed far more than 2 cannons there. Losing 3 in such pointless conditions (he should have realised and cut his losses at 1) is inexcusable.

JD promptly broke out with mutaling and then fast expanded. Realising his muta were useless against the growing mass of corsairs he switched to hydralisks and finished Stork off with 2 hat hydra before speed or dark were out. Extremely crude game.

JD never should have been allowed out of his main, that was a huge mistake by Stork and I don't get why he did it. When your first weak, 20 damage dealing structure which cannot target half the time because it can't see uphill and cannot hit the other half because it's firing uphill is owned by a big, 40 damage dealing, tentacle you shouldn't decide to try it twice more just to see if it was a fluke. Sunkens own cannons, accept it, move on.
+ Show Spoiler [Game 3] +
Battle Report by Kwark

Stork spawned in blue at 10 on Tears of the Moon, JD in purple at 6. Stork went for the standard 1 gate opening on Tears, scouting on 10 while JD went for a gasless overpool. This is a safe economic build, although the pool is relatively fast the gasless overpool is at heart a defensive FE build from a Zerg certain that they can take it in the mid to late game if they get a secure economic start.

Stork scouted the wrong way but saw the overlord and corrected himself early for a quick scout while going the 1 gate fast gas 1 gate zealot build (8p, 10g, 11a, 13z, 16p). JD took his natural just before the pool finished and then made 6 lings to scout with. JD then powered his economy, pumping pure drones while getting gas and heading to lair under the watchful eye of the scout probe.

Stork headed to stargate, standard off of one base, while keeping his single gateway pumping units. JD got zergling speed and finished off the scout probe while getting a hydralisk den. As the scout probe died he suddenly switched into pure lings, understanding that the time between the probe dying and the sair arriving were his to do whatever he wanted while Stork could only assume. When he saw some lings in his nat Stork assumed they were a few from earlier that could easily be cleaned up, JD immediately surrounded 2 of his zealots with speedlings, killing them almost without loss and forcing Stork to waste minerals securing his ramp with a cannon.
A few hydralisks were out in time to block the first sair and without any aggressive potential Stork was forced to try and take his natural with cannons and a fast reaver. Unfortunately for him JD scouted the support bay timing with a suicide scourge and he could see the cannon warping in timing. He hit Stork at the exact most vulnerable point with an excellent ling flank to surround Stork saw yet another group of units massacred by speedling micro. JD expanded and pressed the advantage, breaking into Storks main and killing the new reaver but excellent probe micro in combination with the sairs finally hitting JD stopped the flow of units towards Stork.

Although his base had been saved Stork was now on a weak one base economy against a weak 3 base economy and he had no army to speak of. Once spores ended the corsairs rampage JD was firmly ahead.

Stork again attempted to establish his nat, this time with 2 reavers, 3 zealots and 6 sairs. However an army of hydralisks with scourge support moved across the map and Stork wasted 2 corsairs in situations where they really should have lived. 5 is the critical mass for just attack moving into a scourge, leaving them unstacked and losing 2 was careless and it meant that his 4 corsairs were pretty useless. JDs scourge prevented any shuttle tricks on the reaver as the corsairs were forced to watch from behind a cannon.

Instead of attacking the reaverzee JD just made it useless by sniping the shuttle and then switched into 3 gas muta, something Stork no longer had the sair count to deal with. Stork saw them and GGed but even if he hadn't lost his main, he'd have to completely reshape his army to deal with it.

A very strong game by JD. Some good exploitation of mind games and assumptions to steal zealot kills early and then excellent control and decision making throughout. Very one sided, Stork was just outclassed.

+ Show Spoiler [Results] +
(P)Stork > (Z)Jaedong @ Return of the King
(P)Stork < (Z)Jaedong @ Sin Chupung-Ryeong
(P)Stork < (Z)Jaedong @ Tears of the Moon

(P)Stork 1-2 (Z)Jaedong


Semifinal A


As destiny foretold, Bisu effortlessly passed on to the Semifinals where we was paired up with his fellow team mate fantasy. The question on everyone's minds while watching this series was whether or not Bisu would live up to his prophecy or whether he would crash and burn. Oddly enough, very early on fantasy was picked as one of the least likely to win this Starleauge - and now he is up against Bisu in the semis, a very good showing from the young Terran. Indeed, Fantasy's future looks very bright as he gains more and more experience. But for him, passing Bisu would prove to be his biggest hurdle yet.

Game 1


Game 2


Game 3


And just like that, fantasy had torn through all the prophecy and laid the bonjwa-status of Bisu to rest. Bisu's dominance had come and gone in the flash of an eye and only had a GOM title to show for it. Indeed, he lost the S1 vs S2 champions match against Jaedong in addition to this semifinal against fantasy. Despite Bisu doing well across the board - he just isn't at the same level of perfection the other bonjwa's were at.

I suppose in Bisu's defense, the map pool was very harsh. Chupung is notorious for its T>P imbalance, I have long though that Return of the King favors Terran over Protoss, and finally Tears which has shown to also be a Protoss graveyard in it's short lifespan. Ironically, the only map which Bisu realistically had a chance on (Medusa) was never used. But hiding behind map imbalance isn't something the greats do. Savior had to put up with some of the worst balanced ZvT maps of all time - and he destroyed! Greatness transcends balance, that we know for sure.

Perhaps it's his attitude to this game, which is clearly one of arrogance. Perhaps he underestimates his opponents ever since he became the champion and his mindstate changed to that of a champion instead of a challenger (you can read about the mindsets here). But what is clear after this series is that he is not what he was last month. MSL titles will never fill the void of an OSL title, in that way Stork has been the better player than Bisu overall in the past year. Better luck next season Bisu.

With Fantasy moving on to the finals, we are now assured of a TvZ finals, given the other semifinal is a ZvZ. When was the last TvZ final? I think it was ForGG vs Jaedong in Arena MSL, but it may have been Flash vs Jaedong in GOM S1. Either way, that was a very very long time ago. So I am very excited to see ZvT final on relatively balanced maps - and I look forward to whatever innovation oov will impart on Fantasy for this series.


Semifinal B


ZvZ Bo5's are extremely rare in Progaming. We've had about 4 ZvZ finals across 11 years of Starcraft and not many more semifinals. The most recent ZvZ series was between Zero and Luxury, and that severely disappointed fans. This semifinal is very similar in a way to Zero vs Luxury. You have the reigning ZvZ superpower Jaedong up against the newcomer by.hero, which is very similar to ZvZ #2 Luxury vs the newcomer Zero.

Given the caliber of the players, this series promises to be much better than its MSL counterpart. Let's start off with some basics. We all know NaDa has beastly apm, roughly 400-450apm on average. His insanely fast hands have allowed him to dominate for an extended period of time - in fact for most of SC's life. This is an impressive feat which is probably a result of his dedication and his hand speed. Jaedong is without doubt the modern Zerg equivalent of Nada. When he first broke out onto the scene he amazed everyone with equally fast hands - roughly 400-450apm per game.

Jaedong has dominated for a long time now and this must be the result of his fast hand speed, in addition to his dedication to this game. Indeed, the very fastest players have a tradition of doing very well in leagues and Jaedong was the upper limit of hand speed in Zerg for a very long time. That was, until recently...

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

by.hero is probably the fastest gamer on the scene today. He boasts a 450~ apm average, easily breaking 500 on occasions. Indeed, his mentor July is also very very quick, so he's learned from the best. With his incredible hand speed by.hero came from being kicked off the STX team to an A class Progamer destroying the OSL in roughly a year. He is a Royal Road candidate and has the Rookie Vigor. For hero, the sky is the limit and nothing is going to stop him - not even Jaedong.

This could be the best ZvZ series that will ever be played. You will have both gamers playing at speeds well over 400apm and that will result in intensely contested mutalisk fights and zvz's oozing with anti-scourge micro. It's going to be a treat to watch. So what does this matchup look like?

(Z)by.hero < Return of the King > (Z)Jaedong
(Z)by.hero < Tears of the Moon > (Z)Jaedong
(Z)by.hero < Sin Chupung-Ryeong > (Z)Jaedong
(Z)by.hero < Medusa > (Z)Jaedong
(Z)by.hero < Return of the King > (Z)Jaedong

This map pool should create interesting, and varied, games. Return of the King is a notorious macro map, and with huge rush distances, 12 hatch looks like the best build on offer here. I expect both players to open up identically, with Jaedong perhaps going Overpool if he feels like he can find hero quickly. Both gamers should play identically and whoever wins this game should take the series - seeing as it will determine who is the better player here. I like Jaedong's high economic play because he's a smart player - meaning he can take this match based off his intelligence and experience in the matchup rather than out playing hero. We saw this vs Hoejja, and I'm sure we'll see it here as well.

Tears of the Moon will probably end up favoring Overpool/Speed, seeing as the natural is so exposed and it is a three player map with short rush distance. This will be a low economy micro war, which probably favors hero given he has the higher apm. Nevertheless, the difference will be razor thin and the very first engagement will likely decide the outcome of the game. Sin Chpung-Ryeong could play out a number of ways as 12hatch and overpool are both viable. I suspect we'll see asymmetric builds here, but it's impossible to predict who's going to play what. Based off experience, I'd say whoever plays Overpool will take it.

Medusa is another map like Chupung, except it probably favors macro play a little bit more. For that reason I think this is a good map for Jaedong as it gives him lots of places to exploit his intelligent and create an advantage. Hence I really think Jaedong will take this map. Jaedong will either be winning the series here or squaring things up 2-2 depending on what happens on Chupung in my opinion. And then we come back to Return of the King - which should be very similar to whatever happens in game 1.

Overall, I expect Jaedong to take this series because he is the smarter player - but I've got my Liquibet on hero because there is a real chance he could steal this match (and my Liquibet is already screwed )


And so we come to the end of this belated news post, and hopefully everyone feels better now that there is some OSL news out there. DoctorHelvetica should be back in time to recap Semifinal B and preview the finals - so you can look forward to that! In the mean time, sit back and enjoy what is going to be an amazing ZvZ series. If you can't watch it at the normal time of 18:00 KST, try watching OGN at about 22:00 KST or later and they might be replaying the Semifinal. As always, you can watch the OSL (or indeed, OGN) at this mms://liveongame.gscdn.com/L1 link.

Plexa
Facebook Twitter Reddit
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Boundz(DarKo)
Profile Joined March 2009
5311 Posts
March 26 2009 12:20 GMT
#2
GO hero!
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66145 Posts
March 26 2009 12:23 GMT
#3
Thanks for everything as always, Plexa!
POGGERS
Zoler
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden6339 Posts
March 26 2009 12:33 GMT
#4
Awesome writeup! Would be cool if hero won, but I want Fantasy vs Jaedong final so
Lim Yo Hwan forever!
3 Lions
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States3705 Posts
March 26 2009 12:35 GMT
#5
nice writeup! hoping for a not lopsided fantasy vs by.hero final
I think it was ForGG vs Jaedong in Arena MSL, but it may have been Flash vs Jaedong in GOM S1.


It was Flash vs Jaedong.
DragoonPK
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
3259 Posts
March 26 2009 12:48 GMT
#6
LEE JAE DONG, go on and take your 2nd OSL title!
monstar123
Profile Joined December 2008
United States516 Posts
March 26 2009 12:51 GMT
#7
Go By.Hero
Crunchums
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States11143 Posts
March 26 2009 12:51 GMT
#8
I think you are drastically overestimating by.hero's chances. Luxury vs Zero was pretty lopsided, but at least Zero had just beaten Savior in a bo3 and is known for having good mutalisk micro. "high apm" my ass, one of the best players in the history of the game in a matchup that he dominates more so than any other player in any other matchup in the history of the game vs someone who is 1-2 in that matchup? This series will be more akin to July vs Backho than to be "the best ZvZ series that will ever be played. I know write-ups are going to contain hype, but come on.

Bisu's loss probably had more to do with not practicing for games against his teammate like Jangbi vs Frozean or Jangbi vs Stork than arrogance.
brood war for life, brood war forever
Baalzamon
Profile Joined April 2007
Germany106 Posts
March 26 2009 13:14 GMT
#9
thanks a lot plexa, hoping for a jeadong vs fantasy final
Makhno
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Sweden585 Posts
March 26 2009 13:43 GMT
#10
Nice writeup! I'm really looking forward to the semifinals, it has great potential, but in the end I think Jaedong will outclass by.hero very soundly, winning with perhaps equal micro but with a gamesense that is unprecedented in the matchup. It's like you say, his intelligence will play a huge role and by.hero will have to bring far more than 500+ apm hands to the table if he's looking to take this.

Jaedong has to feel safe here given that he's seemingly impervious to BO-disadvantages.
"If I think, everything is lost"
Space_C0wb0y
Profile Joined March 2009
Germany41 Posts
March 26 2009 13:53 GMT
#11
Could anyone explain what the three different APM numbers in those stats are ?
Makhno
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Sweden585 Posts
March 26 2009 13:58 GMT
#12
On March 26 2009 22:53 Space_C0wb0y wrote:
Could anyone explain what the three different APM numbers in those stats are ?


I'm not 100% sure but I think it's like this:

Average apm
Highest apm
Lowest apm

If you look at like a curve the highest is the maximum for y and the lowest is the minimum.
"If I think, everything is lost"
Pyrthas
Profile Joined March 2007
United States3196 Posts
March 26 2009 13:58 GMT
#13
average max min
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10637 Posts
March 26 2009 14:05 GMT
#14
On March 26 2009 21:51 Crunchums wrote:
I think you are drastically overestimating by.hero's chances. Luxury vs Zero was pretty lopsided, but at least Zero had just ................



There weren't exactly many good BO5 ZvZ so it shouldn't be hard to play one of the bests ever...

We have Jaedong in there: Best ZvZ player out there... Check.
We have By.Hero in there: Fastest player out there... Check.

The possibilty is there and it's not like there were many *good* ZvZ BO5's .
IMlemon
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Lithuania296 Posts
March 26 2009 14:39 GMT
#15
Dude. Did you just write that hero is the favorite because he has high APM? And stork doing better than bisu? I'm willing to pay lot of money for that weed...
My future's so bright, I gotta wear shades.
Crunchums
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States11143 Posts
March 26 2009 14:48 GMT
#16
On March 26 2009 23:05 Velr wrote:
There weren't exactly many good BO5 ZvZ so it shouldn't be hard to play one of the bests ever...

It is true that this series could end up being the best ever just because of the lack of competition; but there's no reason to think that it will be just because by.hero has high APM (this remark about Zero comes to mind).
Also, this begs the question as to what the best ZvZ bo5 ever actually is.
brood war for life, brood war forever
Piy
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Scotland3152 Posts
March 26 2009 14:51 GMT
#17
Hero's still gonna lose imo. It might be a closely contested 3:0 or 3:1, but he'll still lose.
My. Copy. Is. Here.
erin[go]bragh
Profile Joined December 2008
United States815 Posts
March 26 2009 14:58 GMT
#18
Nice write up! Now that fate has been shattered, I'm pulling for by.hero to take the whole thing.

I think you're being too hard on Bisu though. Stork performing better? Losing because of his arrogant mind set? Hind sight is 20/20, and while no one thought Fantasy would be the end of Bisu, looking back it was the worst situation he could have had.

First of all there was the map imbalance. Then there was the fact that Fantasy is Bisu's teammate, and thus very used to Bisu's style. A lot of Bisu's play banks on harassment, which is much easier to play against if you practice against it all day. On the other hand, Fantasy is known for using builds perfectly catered to his opponent and the maps he plays on, so Bisu would have much less familiarity to work with.

Not to mention Fantasy got all the practice he could want from what? All of the dragons except for Best? Maybe Free? (Don't remember if he was mentioned or not.) Bisu's practice partners were very limited. T1 coaches were out, Flash was probably a no no, being in Fantasy clan.

I don't think too many people argue that Starcraft play today is on a different level than it was even 2 years ago. In a world where everyone is so good, everything rests on practice practice practice and maps maps maps. Fantasy got the better practice. He got the better maps. He knew his opponent inside and out from being on the same team.

I'm not defending Bisu's bonjwa claims. But people are overestimating this series. It was a bad turn of events, Bisu got bested, but it wasn't because his was arrogant or anything of the sort...IMO.

I expect him to continue to roll next season. Anyone who calls for a Bisu burn out after one lost Bo5 after an 11 game win streak is getting ahead of themselves.
JulyZerg! by.hero, effOrt, KTY.
lgd-haze
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden547 Posts
March 26 2009 15:12 GMT
#19
I hope for a epic ZvZ bo5 where the last game end up in hive tech à la sataNik vs xiaozi
Flying Tushin!!
fearus
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
China2164 Posts
March 26 2009 15:15 GMT
#20
On March 26 2009 23:39 IMlemon wrote:
And stork doing better than bisu? I'm willing to pay lot of money for that weed...


hahahaha
bisu fanboy
vAltyR
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States581 Posts
March 26 2009 15:18 GMT
#21
Man, who'd have thought Fantasy would beat Bisu? Frankly, I was shocked when I found out about that. IMO, he deserves the OSL title just for that.
내 호버크라프트는 장어로 가득 차 있어요
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8075 Posts
March 26 2009 16:01 GMT
#22
On March 27 2009 00:18 vAltyR wrote:
Man, who'd have thought Fantasy would beat Bisu? Frankly, I was shocked when I found out about that. IMO, he deserves the OSL title just for that.



what about by.hero then lol



Also, yeah by.hero is fast, but theres NO WAY he will beat jeadong. He's lifetime 1-2 on TV, STX isn't known for good ZvZers, and only 3 players have ever beaten jaedong more than once (and that was luxury, july and savior, only beating him twice, and he hasn't to to any of them since 2007).

I really like by.hero, but this is seriously the greatest example of david vs goliath I've seen in a long time.
I like starcraft
Jayme
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States5866 Posts
March 26 2009 16:24 GMT
#23
On March 26 2009 23:39 IMlemon wrote:
Dude. Did you just write that hero is the favorite because he has high APM? And stork doing better than bisu? I'm willing to pay lot of money for that weed...


How is it that Bisu comes up in threads that aren't really about him? No one cares.. he LOST.

I don't even think Plexa has By.Hero as the favorite, he's simply saying that with this high hand speed and good micro he at least has somewhat of a chance.

It's a real shame he had to run into Jaedong of all people but so it goes.
Python is garbage, number 1 advocate of getting rid of it.
Batibot
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Philippines348 Posts
March 26 2009 16:43 GMT
#24
Jaedong will win over by.hero and
+ Show Spoiler +
would use pro queens to decimate fantasy in the finals.
Jaedong has to be a Bonjwa. Tired of of rooting for July.
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
March 26 2009 17:09 GMT
#25
"Ironically, the only map which Bisu realistically had a chance on (Medusa) was never used"
huh? Bisu no realistic chance against fantasy on any of the first 3 maps? How many people would think that before they knew the results?
Also Im sure if theyd play the BO5 again in a week it could look very different.
Fantasy just had everything planned out perfectly this time.

And yea I dont think by.hero has any chance against jaedong whatsoever. Sure he has a lot of apm, his ZvP is great, but I mean the more macro and multitasking is needed -> the more high apm is useful and ZvZ is so low econ so its not that important'
also Jaedong is the master of micro so...
Its not gonna give by.hero any kind of realistic chance.
If I'm wrong and well see a really close exciting 3:2 BO5 I'll be happy to eat my words but I really really dont think so.
beep boop
Heimatloser
Profile Joined March 2009
Germany1494 Posts
March 26 2009 17:26 GMT
#26
seeing by.heros raise since his practice with july i also think there is a chance that he could win this.
maybe the inventor of muta-stacking whispers him some new zvz ideas which cannot fail;-)
+ Show Spoiler +
yeah well but honestly i think this will be 0<3 jaedong, my bet on him
All what KT currently needs is a Zerg and a second Terran
Ozarugold
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
2716 Posts
March 26 2009 17:27 GMT
#27
The two fastest (right?) Zerg players in the semis...damn...
this is my quote.
Crunchums
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States11143 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-26 17:34:35
March 26 2009 17:34 GMT
#28
On March 27 2009 02:26 Heimatloser wrote:
seeing by.heros raise since his practice with July i also think there is a chance that he could win this.
maybe the inventor of muta-stacking whispers him some new zvz ideas which cannot fail;-)
+ Show Spoiler +
yeah well but honestly i think this will be 0<3 Jaedong, my bet on him

technically, the inventor of muta-stacking is (Z)Shark
brood war for life, brood war forever
RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
March 26 2009 17:56 GMT
#29
On March 27 2009 01:01 Ideas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2009 00:18 vAltyR wrote:
Man, who'd have thought Fantasy would beat Bisu? Frankly, I was shocked when I found out about that. IMO, he deserves the OSL title just for that.



what about by.hero then lol



Also, yeah by.hero is fast, but theres NO WAY he will beat jeadong. He's lifetime 1-2 on TV, STX isn't known for good ZvZers, and only 3 players have ever beaten jaedong more than once (and that was luxury, july and savior, only beating him twice, and he hasn't to to any of them since 2007).

I really like by.hero, but this is seriously the greatest example of david vs goliath I've seen in a long time.


Uhh, I think that metaphor is used wrong? In this situation Jaedong would be goliath, however from what you wrote you don't think hero is going to win?

meh whatever, Jaedong is going to rape, is he still boasting an 80% in ZvZ?
Be a man, Become a Legend. TL Mafia Forum Ask for access!!
raga4ka
Profile Joined February 2008
Bulgaria5679 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-26 18:21:27
March 26 2009 18:19 GMT
#30
On March 27 2009 02:34 Crunchums wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2009 02:26 Heimatloser wrote:
seeing by.heros raise since his practice with July i also think there is a chance that he could win this.
maybe the inventor of muta-stacking whispers him some new zvz ideas which cannot fail;-)
+ Show Spoiler +
yeah well but honestly i think this will be 0<3 Jaedong, my bet on him

technically, the inventor of muta-stacking is (Z)Shark


He stacked the mutas on minerals , July was the first to use an overlord or a larve to stack the mutas at least thats what i've heard .

Anyway Jaedond is the heavy favourite here anything else then a 3 - 0 or just maybe a 3 - 1 is considered an upset . And i agree that Stork has done better this year then Bisu .

I don't agree thought that the map imbalance was the issue why Bisu lost . Fantasy was just playing better then him . Last OSL final Stork demolished Fantasy 2 times on chupung while Bisu did some retarded 2 base carrier build . If Bisu won at least 1 game he would have had the chance to close it 3 - 2 , because of medusa being the fourth map , but he didn't and had only himself to blame . Seriously not scouting the map and letting your opponent take a secret base is a pretty big mistake that shouldn't happen on this level of play .
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8075 Posts
March 26 2009 18:41 GMT
#31
On March 27 2009 02:56 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2009 01:01 Ideas wrote:
On March 27 2009 00:18 vAltyR wrote:
Man, who'd have thought Fantasy would beat Bisu? Frankly, I was shocked when I found out about that. IMO, he deserves the OSL title just for that.



what about by.hero then lol



Also, yeah by.hero is fast, but theres NO WAY he will beat jeadong. He's lifetime 1-2 on TV, STX isn't known for good ZvZers, and only 3 players have ever beaten jaedong more than once (and that was luxury, july and savior, only beating him twice, and he hasn't to to any of them since 2007).

I really like by.hero, but this is seriously the greatest example of david vs goliath I've seen in a long time.


Uhh, I think that metaphor is used wrong? In this situation Jaedong would be goliath, however from what you wrote you don't think hero is going to win?

meh whatever, Jaedong is going to rape, is he still boasting an 80% in ZvZ?


how did i use that metaphor wrong?

i said by.hero is the huuuuuuge underdog.
I like starcraft
JWD
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States12607 Posts
March 26 2009 18:44 GMT
#32
Great job as usual Plexa, I was unaware of by.hero's blistering speed before this post!

Hopefully this ZvZ won't disappoint like Zero-Lux and Zero-Savior.
✌
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21242 Posts
March 26 2009 18:49 GMT
#33
by.hero hwaiting. Woot.
TranslatorBaa!
KissBlade
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States5718 Posts
March 26 2009 18:51 GMT
#34
Blech, I'd like to make excuses for Bisu as he really seems the trump card for the protoss and SKT1 but man.
Athos
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2484 Posts
March 26 2009 18:57 GMT
#35
Anybody transfer the picture with all the stats? I'm curious to see what they say other than APM.
Jayme
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States5866 Posts
March 26 2009 19:05 GMT
#36
On March 27 2009 03:57 Athos wrote:
Anybody transfer the picture with all the stats? I'm curious to see what they say other than APM.



Huh? Units built, Units Killed, Units Lost, Minerals mined, Gas mined, average APM, Max APM, Low APM I think
Python is garbage, number 1 advocate of getting rid of it.
sAw
Profile Joined November 2008
965 Posts
March 26 2009 19:08 GMT
#37
Hoping for 5 epic games!
rredtooth
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
5459 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-26 19:12:17
March 26 2009 19:10 GMT
#38
On March 27 2009 03:19 raga4ka wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2009 02:34 Crunchums wrote:
On March 27 2009 02:26 Heimatloser wrote:
seeing by.heros raise since his practice with July i also think there is a chance that he could win this.
maybe the inventor of muta-stacking whispers him some new zvz ideas which cannot fail;-)
+ Show Spoiler +
yeah well but honestly i think this will be 0<3 Jaedong, my bet on him

technically, the inventor of muta-stacking is (Z)Shark


He stacked the mutas on minerals , July was the first to use an overlord or a larve to stack the mutas at least thats what i've heard .

pretty sure it was the broodling twins (Lux/Yarnc) that first used the magic box to stack mutas. July also used the mineral stacking for the longest time and was just really famous for it and really good at it. i wonder what people's reactions were to seeing the magic box trick for the first time.
[formerly sponsored by the artist formerly known as Gene]
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
March 26 2009 19:18 GMT
#39
On March 27 2009 03:41 Ideas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2009 02:56 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
On March 27 2009 01:01 Ideas wrote:
On March 27 2009 00:18 vAltyR wrote:
Man, who'd have thought Fantasy would beat Bisu? Frankly, I was shocked when I found out about that. IMO, he deserves the OSL title just for that.



what about by.hero then lol



Also, yeah by.hero is fast, but theres NO WAY he will beat jeadong. He's lifetime 1-2 on TV, STX isn't known for good ZvZers, and only 3 players have ever beaten jaedong more than once (and that was luxury, july and savior, only beating him twice, and he hasn't to to any of them since 2007).

I really like by.hero, but this is seriously the greatest example of david vs goliath I've seen in a long time.


Uhh, I think that metaphor is used wrong? In this situation Jaedong would be goliath, however from what you wrote you don't think hero is going to win?

meh whatever, Jaedong is going to rape, is he still boasting an 80% in ZvZ?


how did i use that metaphor wrong?

i said by.hero is the huuuuuuge underdog.


What he meant is that its wrong because David beats Goliath..
beep boop
ShmotZ
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States581 Posts
March 26 2009 19:44 GMT
#40
So glad Fantasy knocked out Bisu

Fantasy 3:2 Hero in the finals

Fantasy Fighting!!! ^_^v
Ah, computer dating. It's like pimping, but you rarely have to use the phrase "upside your head." - Bender
Prose
Profile Joined June 2004
Canada314 Posts
March 26 2009 20:22 GMT
#41
On March 27 2009 01:01 Ideas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2009 00:18 vAltyR wrote:
Man, who'd have thought Fantasy would beat Bisu? Frankly, I was shocked when I found out about that. IMO, he deserves the OSL title just for that.


Also, yeah by.hero is fast, but theres NO WAY he will beat jeadong. He's lifetime 1-2 on TV, STX isn't known for good ZvZers, and only 3 players have ever beaten jaedong more than once (and that was luxury, july and savior, only beating him twice, and he hasn't to to any of them since 2007).


ONLY 3 players have ever beaten Jaedong multiple times, none more than twice. But this does not truly capture JD's ZvZ domination.
Almost 80% win rate, wow:
July 2-2
Savior 2-2
Luxury 2-7

So actually, NO zerg has a winning record against JD! (Two are at 50%...)

JD will take this. 3-0.
April showers bring May flowers bring June bugs bring JulyZerg.
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21242 Posts
March 26 2009 21:12 GMT
#42
by.hero has 500+ APM and doesn't afraid of anything.

The reason that Jaedong is so dominant at ZvZ is because he is by far the fastest Zerg player out there right now, and he can multitask in ZvZ much better than his opponents. hero also has that trait though, and if the first game goes past the first couple waves of Mutalisks, it becomes uncertain.

There's also the possibility of BO poker playing into this.

by.hero hwaiting!
TranslatorBaa!
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8075 Posts
March 26 2009 21:30 GMT
#43
On March 27 2009 06:12 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
by.hero has 500+ APM and doesn't afraid of anything.

The reason that Jaedong is so dominant at ZvZ is because he is by far the fastest Zerg player out there right now, and he can multitask in ZvZ much better than his opponents. hero also has that trait though, and if the first game goes past the first couple waves of Mutalisks, it becomes uncertain.

There's also the possibility of BO poker playing into this.

by.hero hwaiting!



JD doesn't win just because he is faster and can multitask better. he wins not just because of that (and also he micros better than just about every other Z player) but mostly by his SUPERB decision making. most of his loses in ZvT and ZvP are from bad decision making, but he is BY FAR the smartest ZvZ player to ever live.
I like starcraft
blahman3344
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2015 Posts
March 26 2009 21:37 GMT
#44
oh mann, bisu got owned pretty bad =\

i also think its cause of arrogance cause its happened to me too =P
I like haikus and / I can not lie. You other / brothers can't deny
Jaksiel
Profile Joined November 2008
United States4130 Posts
March 26 2009 21:48 GMT
#45
I would be absolutely stunned if by.hero even took a single game off Jaedong. I'm not sure there's even an adjective to describe the thought of by.hero winning the series.
Zero fighting.
jinwoooooooo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States176 Posts
March 26 2009 21:58 GMT
#46
On March 27 2009 06:12 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
by.hero has 500+ APM and doesn't afraid of anything.

The reason that Jaedong is so dominant at ZvZ is because he is by far the fastest Zerg player out there right now, and he can multitask in ZvZ much better than his opponents. hero also has that trait though, and if the first game goes past the first couple waves of Mutalisks, it becomes uncertain.

There's also the possibility of BO poker playing into this.

by.hero hwaiting!

First of all, I don't see how 500 APM+ is going to win by.hero any games against Jaedong. Besides, from the looks of those screenshots, his average APM seems to be around 400-450 which is, if the OP is correct, around the same as Jaedongs'. So the APM card is out.

And with what evidence is everyone basing their claims that by.hero has a chance against Jaedong? He played 3 lifetime televised ZvZ's, and the two recent ones were losses. I don't see how you can get an accurate representation of his ZvZ skill with those games. But Jaedong's lifetime 80% ZvZ winrate says a lot.

Besides, when has 'BO poker' ever stopped Jaedong?
jodogohoo
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada2533 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-26 22:13:31
March 26 2009 22:04 GMT
#47
On March 27 2009 06:58 jinwoooooooo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2009 06:12 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Besides, when has 'BO poker' ever stopped Jaedong?

i remember jaedong playing a drone done from some extracter glitch and still winning, and all sorts of other scourge micro comebacks.
also
+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwplcDqMOxE
this is suppose to beat jaedong?
Grobyc
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada18410 Posts
March 26 2009 22:09 GMT
#48
Much <3333 Plexa!
Thanks!
If you watch Godzilla backwards it's about a benevolent lizard who helps rebuild a city and then moonwalks into the ocean.
Harem
Profile Joined November 2007
United States11390 Posts
March 26 2009 22:14 GMT
#49
On March 27 2009 07:04 jodogohoo wrote:
i remember jaedong playing a drone done from some extracter glitch and still winning,


Moderator。◕‿◕。
Vasoline73
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States7760 Posts
March 26 2009 22:41 GMT
#50
By.Hero winning would be way cooler than JD winning. Royal Road for the win guys, I think we're going to see an upset
Jayme
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States5866 Posts
March 26 2009 22:53 GMT
#51
On March 27 2009 06:58 jinwoooooooo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2009 06:12 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
by.hero has 500+ APM and doesn't afraid of anything.

The reason that Jaedong is so dominant at ZvZ is because he is by far the fastest Zerg player out there right now, and he can multitask in ZvZ much better than his opponents. hero also has that trait though, and if the first game goes past the first couple waves of Mutalisks, it becomes uncertain.

There's also the possibility of BO poker playing into this.

by.hero hwaiting!

First of all, I don't see how 500 APM+ is going to win by.hero any games against Jaedong. Besides, from the looks of those screenshots, his average APM seems to be around 400-450 which is, if the OP is correct, around the same as Jaedongs'. So the APM card is out.

And with what evidence is everyone basing their claims that by.hero has a chance against Jaedong? He played 3 lifetime televised ZvZ's, and the two recent ones were losses. I don't see how you can get an accurate representation of his ZvZ skill with those games. But Jaedong's lifetime 80% ZvZ winrate says a lot.

Besides, when has 'BO poker' ever stopped Jaedong?


Starcraft is a game of upsets
Python is garbage, number 1 advocate of getting rid of it.
MyLovelyLurker
Profile Joined April 2007
France756 Posts
March 26 2009 23:11 GMT
#52
Upsets maybe but this is a BO5 and a ZvZ, so I can't see Jaedong losing this with more than 20% probability. As stated before in this thread, just because his multitasking advantage is - in theory - neutralized doesn't mean he's at a loss from it, or that he can't boast other decisive ones. Also the guy just has that fire in him (I'm scared for life after that game vs FBH). Surely by.Hero has youth on his side, but seriously man, Lee "All Kill" Jaedong taking it in 4.
"I just say, it doesn't matter win or lose, I just love Starcraft 2, I love this game, I love this stage, just play like in practice" - TIME/Oliveira
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8075 Posts
March 26 2009 23:32 GMT
#53
On March 27 2009 08:11 MyLovelyLurker wrote:
Upsets maybe but this is a BO5 and a ZvZ, so I can't see Jaedong losing this with more than 20% probability. As stated before in this thread, just because his multitasking advantage is - in theory - neutralized doesn't mean he's at a loss from it, or that he can't boast other decisive ones. Also the guy just has that fire in him (I'm scared for life after that game vs FBH). Surely by.Hero has youth on his side, but seriously man, Lee "All Kill" Jaedong taking it in 4.


by.hero is only 5 months younger than jaedong lol
I like starcraft
erin[go]bragh
Profile Joined December 2008
United States815 Posts
March 26 2009 23:35 GMT
#54
On March 27 2009 04:10 redtooth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2009 03:19 raga4ka wrote:
On March 27 2009 02:34 Crunchums wrote:
On March 27 2009 02:26 Heimatloser wrote:
seeing by.heros raise since his practice with July i also think there is a chance that he could win this.
maybe the inventor of muta-stacking whispers him some new zvz ideas which cannot fail;-)
+ Show Spoiler +
yeah well but honestly i think this will be 0<3 Jaedong, my bet on him

technically, the inventor of muta-stacking is (Z)Shark


He stacked the mutas on minerals , July was the first to use an overlord or a larve to stack the mutas at least thats what i've heard .

pretty sure it was the broodling twins (Lux/Yarnc) that first used the magic box to stack mutas. July also used the mineral stacking for the longest time and was just really famous for it and really good at it. i wonder what people's reactions were to seeing the magic box trick for the first time.



July was the first person to use the muta stack using an Overlord in a televised game vs. Hwasin. It garnered a pretty epic reaction, since it was a huge revolution in ZvT.

And regardless of who actually discovered the stacking trick first, July invented modern mutalisk micro, and that's that.
JulyZerg! by.hero, effOrt, KTY.
Vasoline73
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States7760 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-27 00:10:35
March 27 2009 00:09 GMT
#55
On March 27 2009 05:22 Prose wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2009 01:01 Ideas wrote:
On March 27 2009 00:18 vAltyR wrote:
Man, who'd have thought Fantasy would beat Bisu? Frankly, I was shocked when I found out about that. IMO, he deserves the OSL title just for that.


Also, yeah by.hero is fast, but theres NO WAY he will beat jeadong. He's lifetime 1-2 on TV, STX isn't known for good ZvZers, and only 3 players have ever beaten jaedong more than once (and that was luxury, july and savior, only beating him twice, and he hasn't to to any of them since 2007).


ONLY 3 players have ever beaten Jaedong multiple times, none more than twice. But this does not truly capture JD's ZvZ domination.
Almost 80% win rate, wow:
July 2-2
Savior 2-2
Luxury 2-7

So actually, NO zerg has a winning record against JD! (Two are at 50%...)

JD will take this. 3-0.


I think Oversky is also 2-2 against Jaedong even though one game isn't in TLPD for some reason. Didn't Oversky win a game against Jaedong on Katrina (or Katrina SE) with a 5 pool sunken rush?
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
March 27 2009 01:02 GMT
#56
But what is clear after this series is that he is not what he was last month. MSL titles will never fill the void of an OSL title, in that way Stork has been the better player than Bisu overall in the past year. Better luck next season Bisu.

Lol Plexa, biased much ?
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
ambit!ous1
Profile Joined September 2007
United States3662 Posts
March 27 2009 01:39 GMT
#57
Great article thanks Plexa!
Bisu[Shield] / ♔ SoYeon
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
March 27 2009 03:04 GMT
#58
On March 27 2009 08:35 erin[go]bragh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2009 04:10 redtooth wrote:
On March 27 2009 03:19 raga4ka wrote:
On March 27 2009 02:34 Crunchums wrote:
On March 27 2009 02:26 Heimatloser wrote:
seeing by.heros raise since his practice with July i also think there is a chance that he could win this.
maybe the inventor of muta-stacking whispers him some new zvz ideas which cannot fail;-)
+ Show Spoiler +
yeah well but honestly i think this will be 0<3 Jaedong, my bet on him

technically, the inventor of muta-stacking is (Z)Shark


He stacked the mutas on minerals , July was the first to use an overlord or a larve to stack the mutas at least thats what i've heard .

pretty sure it was the broodling twins (Lux/Yarnc) that first used the magic box to stack mutas. July also used the mineral stacking for the longest time and was just really famous for it and really good at it. i wonder what people's reactions were to seeing the magic box trick for the first time.



July was the first person to use the muta stack using an Overlord in a televised game vs. Hwasin. It garnered a pretty epic reaction, since it was a huge revolution in ZvT.

And regardless of who actually discovered the stacking trick first, July invented modern mutalisk micro, and that's that.
This is sad Luxury or Shark is rumored to have invented he grouping mutas with an overlord/larvae trick. July's game against Hwasin did not use that trick (FPview says so). Mutalisk micro began with July (basically), and was developed to perfection today through practice, refinement and tricks
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
TabyLing
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Australia69 Posts
March 27 2009 03:15 GMT
#59
On March 27 2009 12:04 Plexa wrote:




OMQ New maps and you don't tell me ??

TRAITOR!!


uni is blackening you soul T_T....

<nice write up though~>
AlwaysGG
Profile Joined March 2009
Taiwan952 Posts
March 27 2009 03:23 GMT
#60
BYHERO FIGHTING :D
Trust 神教教主 FlaSh | Believe 火心 EffOrt
Warrior Madness
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Canada3791 Posts
March 27 2009 06:29 GMT
#61
by.Hero, I love you but it's not your time yet. Jaedong's destined to win at least three more titles before he relinquishes his throne.
The Past: Yellow, Julyzerg, Chojja, Savior, GGplay -- The Present: Luxury, Jae- The Future: -Dong, maGma, Zero, Effort, Hoejja, hyvaa, by.hero, calm, Action ---> SC2 (Ret?? Kolll Idra!! SEN, Cool, ZergBong, Leenock)
JWD
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States12607 Posts
March 27 2009 12:16 GMT
#62
+ Show Spoiler [JD vs. hero] +
Well Plexa, you did an awesome job of hyping this series! Too bad it turned out like everyone thought it would before they read this article

So much for by.hero's fast hands
✌
gaPLess
Profile Joined March 2009
United States6 Posts
March 27 2009 18:02 GMT
#63
no doubt jaedong wins the final
thunk
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States6233 Posts
March 27 2009 21:17 GMT
#64
Death of Dreams.
+ Show Spoiler +

No Royal Roader this year.
Every time Jung Myung Hoon builds a vulture, two probes die. || My post count was a palindrome and I was never posting again.
MC9876
Profile Joined March 2009
Netherlands82 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-28 15:12:42
March 27 2009 23:28 GMT
#65
On March 28 2009 03:02 gaPLess wrote:
no doubt jaedong wins the final


Remember MSL finals last year??? Who expected that outcome?
I am looking forward to the finals. Hope to have 5 awesome sets, or Jaedong pulling a Julyzerg OSL final (that was a short, but awesome finals).
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8552 Posts
March 28 2009 00:20 GMT
#66
Yeah, but that was a teammate battle which makes the contest more even. Besides fOrGG's TvZ is really good, Fantasy's is, but not at fOrGG's level. Also, this season's map pool is more balanced, especially with Medusa twice. I'm not saying Fantasy can't win, he definitely can with creative builds, but it heavily favors Jaedong.
Jaedong
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
March 28 2009 13:22 GMT
#67
On March 27 2009 21:16 JWD wrote:
+ Show Spoiler [JD vs. hero] +
Well Plexa, you did an awesome job of hyping this series! Too bad it turned out like everyone thought it would before they read this article

So much for by.hero's fast hands

+ Show Spoiler +
God damn hero got nervous and it fucked everything up

Game 1 he was at a BO disadvantage a jaedong played like a champ, ez win for JD
Game 2 he had sublime micro at Jaedongs ramp, then... speed kicked in and he got nervous (as seen by misrallying a drone, which if he didnt probably would have evened the game up). And well, from there the game turned to shit
Game 3 was Jaedong shitting on hero's broken spirit.
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
hazz
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom570 Posts
March 29 2009 20:21 GMT
#68
I don't think anyone actually thought hero had a chance.... before this hero had played 3 ZvZ's and he only won one of them vs GoRush and then he had to go up against jaedong who is basically the most dominant player of any matchup ever (and arguably the best player in the world right now)
KillerMan2k
Profile Joined October 2008
Norway13 Posts
April 01 2009 17:39 GMT
#69
On March 27 2009 00:15 fearus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 26 2009 23:39 IMlemon wrote:
And stork doing better than bisu? I'm willing to pay lot of money for that weed...


hahahaha



who said it was weed ?
Its time to kick ass and chew bubble gum... and Im all out of gum.
Normal
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 6h 54m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
NeuroSwarm 254
RuFF_SC2 227
Nina 159
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 21483
Noble 71
Icarus 11
Dota 2
monkeys_forever217
LuMiX1
League of Legends
JimRising 927
Counter-Strike
Fnx 589
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor203
Other Games
summit1g9911
shahzam697
C9.Mang0385
ViBE262
Maynarde209
Organizations
StarCraft 2
ESL.tv125
CranKy Ducklings101
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH141
• Hupsaiya 71
• practicex 39
• OhrlRock 4
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 27
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo841
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
6h 54m
BeSt vs Light
Wardi Open
7h 54m
Replay Cast
20h 54m
Replay Cast
1d 6h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 6h
Snow vs Soulkey
WardiTV Invitational
1d 7h
PiGosaur Monday
1d 20h
GSL Code S
2 days
ByuN vs Rogue
herO vs Cure
Replay Cast
2 days
GSL Code S
3 days
Classic vs Reynor
GuMiho vs Maru
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
GSL Code S
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
SOOP
5 days
Online Event
6 days
Clem vs ShoWTimE
herO vs MaxPax
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Nation Wars Season 2
PiG Sty Festival 6.0
Calamity Stars S2

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
ASL Season 19
YSL S1
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
China & Korea Top Challenge
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
2025 GSL S1
Heroes 10 EU
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025
ESL Pro League S21

Upcoming

NPSL S3
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLAN 2025
K-Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2025
2025 GSL S2
DreamHack Dallas 2025
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.