Today, we are excited to announce all of the players who are confirmed to participate in each region of Premier League competition for WCS 2013 Season 1. Below you will find the 24 invited players for each of the WCS America and WCS Europe regions, as well as the entire list of 32 Premier League players for WCS Korea, which began just a week ago.
It is important to note that the Premier league player lists for both WCS America and WCS Europe will each be expanded to include 32 players in total – the 24 invited players listed here, as well as the eight players who advance from each region's respective WCS Qualifier Tournament. Additional World Championship Series 2013 information can be found here, and be sure to mark your schedules with the WCS 2013 Season 1 dates listed here.
Players that are invited (Eight additional players to be determined in special open Qualifiers.):
That looks like a pretty solid list. Most of the koreans are foreign team koreans, I was lead to believe it'd be more koreans lol. Any koreans that work their way through the qualies deserve it anyway, but I would be against seeding them in.
Interesting seeing how many foreigners ended up getting seeded. Will be more excited to see who ends up coming from the qualifiers. Very excited to see Juan and theognis participating, Snute seems out of place though :D (region not skill, duh)
On April 11 2013 08:20 packrat386 wrote: How did they make the decision whether to invite players or not? I mean, I get that its an american event, but how did someone like HyuN not make it onto this? The guy is a GSL finalist and half of the people on this list wouldn't even be able to qualify.
Hyun is already playing in WCS KR(GSL) this season.
On April 11 2013 08:20 packrat386 wrote: How did they make the decision whether to invite players or not? I mean, I get that its an american event, but how did someone like HyuN not make it onto this? The guy is a GSL finalist and half of the people on this list wouldn't even be able to qualify.
Hyun is already playing in WCS KR(GSL) this season.
Its weird how that works, that if your qualified for another event you don't get invited to the NA event.
On April 11 2013 08:14 ThE_OsToJiY wrote: So I guess 2nd in WCS Canada, 7th in WCS NA and qualifying for World Finals isn't good enough these days : (
Just go wreck the qualifiers!
Yeah, the qualifiers that hold more koreans then the premier league. Look at the list of Koreans coming to NA, and then look at the list of invites..The rest of those koreans, will be in the qualifier.
Kind of sad that an NA player like Spanishiwa wasn't invited. He always had a good run and got top30 when the MLGs still had an open bracket. Granted he has been busy with school but he was always a fun player to watch.
I actually fucking LOVE the EU list (although, too bad fraer was not invited, I am sure he will make it through qualifiers though). This is exactly what WCS was supposed to represent, only a few Koreans and a lot of EU guys, who can brainstorm against them and beat them. Coupled with KR->EU lag and the fact that there is generally not a lot of Koreans even if they make it through open bracket, I think WCS EU represents exactly what WCS event should be about and I also believe that including the Koreans will actually help EU scene.
Now it is up to the players, if they want and will cooperate in this, if they will take it as seriously as GSL is taken, prepare for specific map and specific opponent and train hard, I have no doubts that there will be max 1 Korean in Global Finals from EU if at all.
Really surprised about Snute's choice. And yes, DemusliM is totally screwed. Otherwise the EU list seems fair. Feast, Dayshi, good luck for the qualifiers !
On April 11 2013 08:25 Dodgin wrote: How in the world does " hellokitty " deserve an invite over Demuslim
Holy shit, did not notice Demuslim was missing in both NA and EU. This must be a mistake.
Well this explains Inside the Game yesterday and why he was upset about about the WCS rules. Looks like he got hedged out for an invite by an invading Korean player with better results. This is what happens if you work hard and get a green card, they import someone to take you place.
On April 11 2013 08:25 Dodgin wrote: How in the world does " hellokitty " deserve an invite over Demuslim
Probably because "Hellokitty" qualified for NA and Demuslim qualified for EU.
Yeah that doesn't make sense when you consider NesTea is dropping out of GSL Code A to get a seed into premier NA. NA GM #1 doesn't get a seed into WCS NA, pretty much a joke.
On April 11 2013 08:32 Boucot wrote: Also the NA list is not as korean-heavy as I'd have thought, that's cool (though the qualifiers will probably be but that's a good start).
for NA, you can easily add 8 koreans to the final 32 players list.
On April 11 2013 08:25 Dodgin wrote: How in the world does " hellokitty " deserve an invite over Demuslim
Probably because "Hellokitty" qualified for NA and Demuslim qualified for EU.
Yeah that doesn't make sense when you consider NesTea is dropping out of GSL Code A to get a seed into premier NA. NA GM #1 doesn't get a seed into WCS NA, pretty much a joke.
But hes not Korean, so he get gets screwed because they chose the region he decided to put the most time into. I mean, why qualify for GSL when you can just come to NA and win here, online and go back to GSL if you don't make it.
Biggest foreigner name missing on the NA list has to be DeMusliM. He is #1 on GM NA and did fairly well in 2012... (WCS UK, NASL, etc) Guess it wasn't enough by whatever Blizzard's standards were.
Snute on NA? :/ I would've preferred to see him on EU. Only 5 Korean invites for NA is not too bad either. Really glad to see a good amount of Mexican and South American players. But hellokitty, Capoch and Maker over LeiYa or DEMUSLIM???
The only one I never heard of is hellokitty. Is he good? What achievements put him over one of the best foreign terrans?
On April 11 2013 08:32 Boucot wrote: Also the NA list is not as korean-heavy as I'd have thought, that's cool (though the qualifiers will probably be but that's a good start).
for NA, you can easily add 8 koreans to the final 32 players list.
On April 11 2013 08:22 holy_war wrote: Oh my, the NA has some heavy hitters in Capoch and hellokitty
Also, no DeMusliM?
For all we know he turned it down. These are confirmed participates. They may have invited some people who said no.
He said on stream he didn't get invited
Today was quite chaotic and filled with controversies, but this is by far the most ridiculous thing yet. It must be a mistake...
:[ this is disgusting, if there is a non-american who deserves to play wcs-na it's definitely demuslim :[
I would argue this: they said invites were based on previous tournament performance, of whic Demuslim hasn't attended a whole lot. Then again we have people like Capoch on that list.. so I wouldn't think it's a good argument.
Idra getting an invite is pretty much a joke, given the number of people who have directly outperformed him in WCS and MLG, which are the only things he seems to have even played in.
On April 11 2013 08:40 Lonyo wrote: Idra getting an invite is pretty much a joke, given the number of people who have directly outperformed him in WCS and MLG, which are the only things he seems to have even played in.
He did one of the best at WCS. Jesus, talk about a hater. Also given how relevant he is compared to half the people on that list. Some people make me laugh.
On April 11 2013 08:39 Sabre wrote: no DeMusliM or Kane for WCS NA is just ridiculous
Some of the invites are very questionable.
No offense to capoch or maker but how did they get an invite over players such as Kane/demuslim/ostoji? Like did they do well in a tournament I am not aware of (major tournament not local lans)?
The final piece of the puzzle, Blizzard's newly developed point system, seems to fit in with the rest of their announcement. EU looks reeeelatively okay although questionable decisions with some of the invites while NA is highly questionable.
On April 11 2013 08:39 Sabre wrote: no DeMusliM or Kane for WCS NA is just ridiculous
Some of the invites are very questionable.
No offense to capoch but how did he get an invite over players such as Kane/demuslim/ostoji? Like did he do well in a tournament I am not aware of (major tournament not local lans)?
Demuslim is the best non korean terran in north america right now.....by about 60 miles. How he didnt get an invite is baffling.
On April 11 2013 08:39 Sabre wrote: no DeMusliM or Kane for WCS NA is just ridiculous
Some of the invites are very questionable.
No offense to capoch but how did he get an invite over players such as Kane/demuslim/ostoji? Like did he do well in a tournament I am not aware of (major tournament not local lans)?
On April 11 2013 08:22 holy_war wrote: Oh my, the NA has some heavy hitters in Capoch and hellokitty
Also, no DeMusliM?
For all we know he turned it down. These are confirmed participates. They may have invited some people who said no.
He said on stream he didn't get invited
Today was quite chaotic and filled with controversies, but this is by far the most ridiculous thing yet. It must be a mistake...
:[ this is disgusting, if there is a non-american who deserves to play wcs-na it's definitely demuslim :[
I would argue this: they said invites were based on previous tournament performance, of whic Demuslim hasn't attended a whole lot. Then again we have people like Capoch on that list.. so I wouldn't think it's a good argument.
No, he clearly got hedged out by one of the Korean Horde on the quest for easy money. I am really hoping he just rips to the qualifiers and just cheeses every Korean playing cross sever just to make them suffer through the lag.
On April 11 2013 08:39 Sabre wrote: no DeMusliM or Kane for WCS NA is just ridiculous
Some of the invites are very questionable.
No offense to capoch but how did he get an invite over players such as Kane/demuslim/ostoji? Like did he do well in a tournament I am not aware of (major tournament not local lans)?
I think he did really well at NASL and got 2nd at a WCS event... oh wait that was Demuslim .
On April 11 2013 08:40 Lonyo wrote: Idra getting an invite is pretty much a joke, given the number of people who have directly outperformed him in WCS and MLG, which are the only things he seems to have even played in.
Well to be fair, he did pretty good at WCS US (3rd), WCS NA (4th) and BWC (Making it out of the group stages...)
the brazillian wcs champion and 3rd place on south america( Levin ) is not invite and HELLOKITTY who won nothing as???? capoch as invite by won argentina and be 5th on wcs south america, i dont think minigun and theognis deserve a invite either because of lack of results in 2012.
On April 11 2013 08:44 cladoliver wrote: the brazillian wcs champion and 3rd place on south america( Levin ) is not invite and HELLOKITTY who won nothing as???? capoch as invite by won argentina and be 5th on wcs south america, i dont think minigun and theognis deserve a invite either because of lack of results in 2012.
Wait, WTF?!?!? I didn't even notice Minigun in there. How did Minigun and HELLOKITTY get an invite over Demulism? There is no god.
On April 11 2013 08:22 holy_war wrote: Oh my, the NA has some heavy hitters in Capoch and hellokitty
Also, no DeMusliM?
For all we know he turned it down. These are confirmed participates. They may have invited some people who said no.
He said on stream he didn't get invited
Today was quite chaotic and filled with controversies, but this is by far the most ridiculous thing yet. It must be a mistake...
:[ this is disgusting, if there is a non-american who deserves to play wcs-na it's definitely demuslim :[
I would argue this: they said invites were based on previous tournament performance, of whic Demuslim hasn't attended a whole lot. Then again we have people like Capoch on that list.. so I wouldn't think it's a good argument.
Indeed, this argument does not hold water. 1st NA gm player, resident in the US for a while, overall a great chap with a lot of fans and playing for a famous team. Can't understand.
It's really gonna suck for the guy who got an invite and then gets booted because of DeMuslim... if that happens. They should have done some check-ups beforehand or whatever.
On April 11 2013 08:40 Lonyo wrote: Idra getting an invite is pretty much a joke, given the number of people who have directly outperformed him in WCS and MLG, which are the only things he seems to have even played in.
A number of people did better than 2-0ing Roro and Stephano?
On April 11 2013 08:44 cladoliver wrote: the brazillian wcs champion and 3rd place on south america( Levin ) is not invite and HELLOKITTY who won nothing as???? capoch as invite by won argentina and be 5th on wcs south america, i dont think minigun and theognis deserve a invite either because of lack of results in 2012.
Wait, WTF?!?!? I didn't even notice Minigun in there. How did Minigun and HELLOKITTY get an invite over Demulism? There is no god.
Minigun did just beat IdrA to get into MLG (and IdrA qualified). How HELLOKITTY got invited over Demuslim or how State got in over Demu is a total mystery/travesty.
And why is Snute there? Why was he invited to the NA tournament when Demu already lives there and has been in NA for a long time. It really makes no sense.
On April 11 2013 08:44 cladoliver wrote: the brazillian wcs champion and 3rd place on south america( Levin ) is not invite and HELLOKITTY who won nothing as???? capoch as invite by won argentina and be 5th on wcs south america, i dont think minigun and theognis deserve a invite either because of lack of results in 2012.
Wait, WTF?!?!? I didn't even notice Minigun in there. How did Minigun and HELLOKITTY get an invite over Demulism? There is no god.
Minigun did just beat IdrA to get into MLG (and IdrA qualified). How HELLOKITTY got invited over Demuslim or how State got in over Demu is a total mystery/travesty.
And why is Snute there? Why was he invited to the NA tournament when Demu already lives there and has been in NA for a long time. It really makes no sense.
I agree with the Minigun kinda, but not over Demuslim. Beating Idra is the only thing that Minigun has done recently, while Demuslim did great at WCS EU, beat Neatea at MLG and is number one of the NA ladder.
Man I would have loved to see just 1 foriegner to join Korean League. ALL eyes on Him n would get more attention than anyone, well til round of 16 most likely. specailly someone who has nothing to loose cuz they are still a big underdog on their current league. dont want to name names. but even in NA u can see few guys whose unlikely to advance from round 32.
On April 11 2013 08:45 archonOOid wrote: monchi over nightend, whitera and bling?
That's correct by all means. If any of the top EU Protoss players is missing and got snubbed, it's fraer. The others haven't had notable results in like forever.
On April 11 2013 08:45 archonOOid wrote: monchi over nightend, whitera and bling?
Of course yes, winning IeSF (beating Squirtle), top 4 DH Winter (beating Nerchio, NaNiwa, DIMAGA...) What have NightEnD, White-Ra and BlinG done in 2012 ?
It's hard to really think of rhyme or reason to some of the invites.
Capoch getting invited would imply that the previous WCS national champs/WCS performers get in but Potiguar, Adj, Levin, Maker, Ostojiy all missed out. Moonglade and Sen got in so that would imply SEA gets some representation but not a single player from WCS China or G-League made it.
So i dunno. hope there's explanations to each invite. It'll suck if it turns into an NCAA Championship thing where half the conversation on Selection Sunday is guessing not which teams will get in, but why they got in.
All joking aside, there are some very questionable invites... Also the whole no region lock I think will be looked back upon as a mistake. Hopefully this is all solved by 2014. Still overall i think a good idea by blizzard, they just need to work on the execution and buff out some kinks.
On April 11 2013 08:45 archonOOid wrote: monchi over nightend, whitera and bling?
That's correct by all means. If any of the top EU Protoss players is missing and got snubbed, it's fraer. The others haven't had notable results in like forever.
Now look at that invite list, and imagine that was all you had to watch, without the Koreans... 3K viewers on a good day... By season 2 half of them will be replaced by Koreans coming from the challenger bracket.
On April 11 2013 08:56 GeneralSnoop wrote: I wish White-Ra was invited. I don't have any results or anything to back up why he should be, but think a majority would be happy if he was!
It's a better story when he swoops the qualifiers and then wins the whole thing .
On April 11 2013 08:55 AgentW wrote: DeMusliM is not pleased that TaeJa nor himself is included. He's being very manner about it.
Taeja is currently in code s and no one currently in code s can join season 1 in another region - see MC in EU, he's not on list either. They have to try out for season 2.
On April 11 2013 08:57 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: qxc should be up there for NA as well
I'm a big fan of qxc, but I don't see it with his recent performance. He'd certainly be a fun player, and a threat to qualify, but who do you kick off that list for him?
On April 11 2013 08:45 archonOOid wrote: monchi over nightend, whitera and bling?
That's correct by all means. If any of the top EU Protoss players is missing and got snubbed, it's fraer. The others haven't had notable results in like forever.
2011 called. They would like their players back.
Fraer really, really should have been in. Would have loved to see heromarine also.
On April 11 2013 08:58 sitromit wrote: Now look at that invite list, and imagine that was all you had to watch, without the Koreans... 3K viewers on a good day... By season 2 half of them will be replaced by Koreans coming from the challenger bracket.
Then the round of 32 switches to offline only and they all go back to Korea because they don't have visas.
On April 11 2013 08:55 AgentW wrote: DeMusliM is not pleased that TaeJa nor himself is included. He's being very manner about it.
Taeja is currently in code s and no one currently in code s can join season 1 in another region - see MC in EU, he's not on list either. They have to try out for season 2.
I realized this after I posted. What about Code B guys like Jaedong, CranK etc.?
On April 11 2013 08:55 AgentW wrote: DeMusliM is not pleased that TaeJa nor himself is included. He's being very manner about it.
Taeja is currently in code s and no one currently in code s can join season 1 in another region - see MC in EU, he's not on list either. They have to try out for season 2.
I realized this after I posted. What about Code B guys like Jaedong, CranK etc.?
On April 11 2013 08:58 sitromit wrote: Now look at that invite list, and imagine that was all you had to watch, without the Koreans... 3K viewers on a good day... By season 2 half of them will be replaced by Koreans coming from the challenger bracket.
Then the round of 32 switches to offline only and they all go back to Korea because they don't have visas.
Koreans don't need a visa to stay in the US for up to 3 months.
There is a survey asking people to give their thoughts on WCS 2013. 720 people have already filled it out. Please join them as it only takes 30 seconds http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/VSKH3BX
On April 11 2013 08:45 archonOOid wrote: monchi over nightend, whitera and bling?
That's correct by all means. If any of the top EU Protoss players is missing and got snubbed, it's fraer. The others haven't had notable results in like forever.
I was wondering when you would post that.
Well it is kind of true. I feel like he had better results than, say Hasu or TLO in 2012 and certainly did better against Koreans, but I won't bother trying to be obnoxious about this because there's probably not nearly enough people who even know him or actually care about it, it'd be different if he was on TL or EG.
And it doesn't matter anyway, right now he'd probably get stomped either way because I don't think he has been practicing in HotS all too much so far, he'll start competing again when he wants to.
On April 11 2013 08:55 AgentW wrote: DeMusliM is not pleased that TaeJa nor himself is included. He's being very manner about it.
Taeja is currently in code s and no one currently in code s can join season 1 in another region - see MC in EU, he's not on list either. They have to try out for season 2.
I realized this after I posted. What about Code B guys like Jaedong, CranK etc.?
They can play in season 1. They just didn't get invited and have to play qualifiers for season 1. Even code A guys can be in it, see hero and nestea. Only code s guys can't cause they appear on the list for kr, so they can't be on a list at the same time in 2 regions.
On April 11 2013 08:57 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: qxc should be up there for NA as well
I'm a big fan of qxc, but I don't see it with his recent performance. He'd certainly be a fun player, and a threat to qualify, but who do you kick off that list for him?
Hellokitty, Maker or Capoch ? I don't think anyone would complain.
Why are people ***SHOCKED!!!*** demuslim didn't get an invite? Guys, wtf... he's completely unaccomplished at LAN and the qualifier is actually online, if he's so good at online play, let him prove it and earn an invite.
I don't know why people are wondering why HELLOKITTY is on the list, but not saying anything about Fenix being there. I mean for christ sakes he just started playing again. He literally dissapeared for nearly all of 2012
On April 11 2013 09:03 Thrill wrote: Why are people ***SHOCKED!!!*** demuslim didn't get an invite? Guys, wtf... he's completely unaccomplished at LAN and the qualifier is actually online, if he's so good at online play, let him prove it and earn an invite.
On April 11 2013 09:03 Thrill wrote: Why are people ***SHOCKED!!!*** demuslim didn't get an invite? Guys, wtf... he's completely unaccomplished at LAN and the qualifier is actually online, if he's so good at online play, let him prove it and earn an invite.
On April 11 2013 09:03 Thrill wrote: Why are people ***SHOCKED!!!*** demuslim didn't get an invite? Guys, wtf... he's completely unaccomplished at LAN and the qualifier is actually online, if he's so good at online play, let him prove it and earn an invite.
There is this thing called Liquipedia, which is above you. If you click on it, you will see that he beat Neastea an MGL and placed highly WCS EU. He is also number 1 on the NA server right now. Now lets take like HELLOKITTY, who has won or qualified for NOTHING and is not number one of the NA ladder. Who would receive an invite?
On April 11 2013 09:03 Thrill wrote: Why are people ***SHOCKED!!!*** demuslim didn't get an invite? Guys, wtf... he's completely unaccomplished at LAN and the qualifier is actually online, if he's so good at online play, let him prove it and earn an invite.
I'm completely cool with people being allowed to play in whatever region they want. I just don't understand why people living outside NA would be invited to NA premier. They should have to qualify.
On April 11 2013 09:03 Thrill wrote: Why are people ***SHOCKED!!!*** demuslim didn't get an invite? Guys, wtf... he's completely unaccomplished at LAN and the qualifier is actually online, if he's so good at online play, let him prove it and earn an invite.
There is this thing called Liquipedia, which is above you. If you click on it, you will see that he beat Neastea an MGL and placed highly WCS EU. He is also number 1 on the NA server right now. Now lets take like HELLOKITTY, who has won or qualified for NOTHING and is not number one of the NA ladder. Who would receive an invite?
Soooo true. Thanks for clarifying that for peaple who don't watch his stream and thus not know his unbelievable awesomeness.
It was dumb not to invite DeMuslim... but either he's good enough to make it through qualifiers or he would have dropped out anyway. It's fine to be mad that he's not getting the free invite, but cursing the day Blizzard was conceived because of it is ridiculous. IMO, he's good enough to make it through, even with the brutality of the Korean stacked qualifiers.
By the end of the season, it will all be balanced out, and the only people left will be those who deserve to be there. Either DeMuslim will be on that deserving list or he won't. Getting the invite, at the end of the day, means nothing. It would have been nice and would have obviously made more sense than some picks... but it's not the end of the world.
On April 11 2013 09:07 ssg wrote: Fenix finished 2nd at the SA WCS. Not sure what Demuslim did in 2012, but don't think he had any real notable results.
He had great results in group play in the last NASL, did well in WCS EU and MGL last year.
The biggest tragedy for the EU invites is definitely LoWeLy, who placed 1st in the Combined European Finals, and 4th in the European Continental Finals, and he also got out of the groups in the World Finals. I think it's a pretty big oversight, and I'd be pretty mad if I were him. Happy from Team Empire should probably also be invited. Otherwise, it's a great list by ESL.
Some of those NA invites are quite ridiculous. Whoever did them doesn't really know the scene very well at all. Hellokitty? Maker? Capoch? They should've at least hit up Liquipedia to check their achievements - no offence to them, but I'm pretty mad about DeMusliM, not to mention players like Kane, Ostojiy, Hendralisk, MaSa, LeiYa, Caliber....
Europe looks pretty awesome already. NA looks pretty bad to be honest here way too many Koreans and way too many inactive or just plain bad players. The fact that there is a potential that there will be more Koreans in the premier division than people from America means it won't be productive in making the scene any better.
On April 11 2013 09:03 Thrill wrote: Why are people ***SHOCKED!!!*** demuslim didn't get an invite? Guys, wtf... he's completely unaccomplished at LAN and the qualifier is actually online, if he's so good at online play, let him prove it and earn an invite.
Ok what about Capoche then? I don't even know who he is... Oh and invite a player like hellokitty that does blink stalker allins in all his ladder games? No offence btw.. I'm sure they're much better choices then demuslim. Demuslim is like the only player that can actually take games off Koreans and they don't invite him. Instead they invite some people that are not even pro-gamers
Demuslim easily should've been included other people like Hellokitty and capoch... EDIT: Take Hellokitty, Capoch, and Maker out. Put Demuslim, Ostojiy, and qxc in instead.
On April 11 2013 09:03 Thrill wrote: Why are people ***SHOCKED!!!*** demuslim didn't get an invite? Guys, wtf... he's completely unaccomplished at LAN and the qualifier is actually online, if he's so good at online play, let him prove it and earn an invite.
There is this thing called Liquipedia, which is above you. If you click on it, you will see that he beat Neastea an MGL and placed highly WCS EU. He is also number 1 on the NA server right now. Now lets take like HELLOKITTY, who has won or qualified for NOTHING and is not number one of the NA ladder. Who would receive an invite?
No, he didn't place highly. He lost to Mana first round, beat Krass and Dayshi (neither of whom are invited here) and lost to Nerchio, made 13th-16th out of 32, that isn't placing particularly highly to me, but he still should be invited in NA, yes.
On April 11 2013 09:03 Thrill wrote: Why are people ***SHOCKED!!!*** demuslim didn't get an invite? Guys, wtf... he's completely unaccomplished at LAN and the qualifier is actually online, if he's so good at online play, let him prove it and earn an invite.
There is this thing called Liquipedia, which is above you. If you click on it, you will see that he beat Neastea an MGL and placed highly WCS EU. He is also number 1 on the NA server right now. Now lets take like HELLOKITTY, who has won or qualified for NOTHING and is not number one of the NA ladder. Who would receive an invite?
Soooo true. Thanks for clarifying that for peaple who don't watch his stream and thus not know his unbelievable awesomeness.
If HelloKitty received an invite over Idra, Suppy for Minigun, I will still be pissed. All three of those players are more accomplished.
On April 11 2013 09:10 mikkmagro wrote: The biggest tragedy for the EU invites is definitely LoWeLy, who placed 1st in the Combined European Finals, and 4th in the European Continental Finals, and he also got out of the groups in the World Finals. I think it's a pretty big oversight, and I'd be pretty mad if I were him. Happy from Team Empire should probably also be invited. Otherwise, it's a great list by ESL.
Some of those NA invites are quite ridiculous. Whoever did them doesn't really know the scene very well at all. Hellokitty? Maker? Capoch? They should've at least hit up Liquipedia to check their achievements - no offence to them, but I'm pretty mad about DeMusliM, not to mention players like Kane, Ostojiy, Hendralisk, MaSa, LeiYa, Caliber....
Yes, LoWeLy is probably the player who got snubbed the most. He did well at WCS, beat YongHwa at WCG and got 4th there, just finished 3rd in Ritmix RSL, etc.
On April 11 2013 09:07 ssg wrote: Fenix finished 2nd at the SA WCS. Not sure what Demuslim did in 2012, but don't think he had any real notable results.
He had great results in group play in the last NASL, did well in WCS EU and MGL last year.
Yeah you are right. Fenix did qualify for the World Championship though so that's likely why he got invited.
How many in "US" or "NA" are actually from NA? Will be hilarious when they announce the winner of the NA group, as in someone who is NOT from NA but rather from Europe or Korea.
Would make sense if they just for now renamed the regions to region #1, region #2 and region #3 since naming that after a geographical region makes zero fucking sense.
On April 11 2013 09:07 ssg wrote: Fenix finished 2nd at the SA WCS. Not sure what Demuslim did in 2012, but don't think he had any real notable results.
He had great results in group play in the last NASL, did well in WCS EU and MGL last year.
Yeah you are right. Fenix did qualify for the World Championship though so that's likely why he got invited.
Ok, but how about HELLOKITTY? Why was he invited? It is the secret we all want to know. Get Slasher on this.
On April 11 2013 09:14 Integra wrote: How many in "US" or "NA" are actually from NA? Will be hilarious when they announce the winner of the NA group, as in someone who is NOT from NA but either from Europe or Korea.
Would make sense if they just for now renamed the regions to region #1, region #2 and region #3 since naming that after a geographical region makes zero fucking sense.
On April 11 2013 09:11 FlukyS wrote: Europe looks pretty awesome already. NA looks pretty bad to be honest here way too many Koreans and way too many inactive or just plain bad players. The fact that there is a potential that there will be more Koreans in the premier division than people from America means it won't be productive in making the scene any better.
5 Koreans in NA vs 3 in EU doesn't seem too big of a difference to me. I'm giving the first season a pass to be honest. It was always going to be pretty messed up trying to shove this into the tournament structure already. Still excited for it though.
On April 11 2013 09:14 Integra wrote: How many in "US" or "NA" are actually from NA? Will be hilarious when they announce the winner of the NA group, as in someone who is NOT from NA but rather from Europe or Korea.
Would make sense if they just for now renamed the regions to region #1, region #2 and region #3 since naming that after a geographical region makes zero fucking sense.
Wow Blizzard really knows how to keep fucking up. Where are Demuslim and Kane, the two most hard working players of the fucking foreign scene so far? Fuck this joke of a tournament. First Koreans in NA/EU and now this.
Way to make a joke out of WCS NA. Non-North Americans were given invites? What in the actual fuck.
The only potential for hope was that the Koreans would have to actually qualify for the event. But no, we're giving not only Europeans, but actual Koreans invites to a WCS they don't even live near?
My brain, it hurts. It hurts so bad. Demuslim not getting an invite, and Sundance saying "I'll investigate" is even worse - it means the guy wasn't even aware of the invites being sent out. To let some lower-management guy handle the invites to the NA region, which MLG pratically owns outright, without checking up on them before they're sent is just plain sad. "Growing pains and bumps along the way" doesn't even begin to describe.
On April 11 2013 09:16 Maesy wrote: Wow Blizzard really knows how to keep fucking up. Where are Demuslim and Kane, the two most hard working players of the fucking foreign scene so far? Fuck this joke of a tournament. First Koreans in NA/EU and now this.
two most hard working players of the fucking foreign scene
On April 11 2013 09:19 Mauldo wrote: Way to make a joke out of WCS NA. Non-North Americans were given invites? What in the actual fuck.
The only potential for hope was that the Koreans would have to actually qualify for the event. But no, we're giving not only Europeans, but actual Koreans invites to a WCS they don't even live near?
My brain, it hurts. It hurts so bad. Demuslim not getting an invite, and Sundance saying "I'll investigate" is even worse - it means the guy wasn't even aware of the invites being sent out. To let some lower-management guy handle the invites to the NA region, which MLG pratically owns outright, without checking up on them before they're sent is just plain sad. "Growing pains and bumps along the way" doesn't even begin to describe.
On April 11 2013 09:19 Mauldo wrote: Way to make a joke out of WCS NA. Non-North Americans were given invites? What in the actual fuck.
The only potential for hope was that the Koreans would have to actually qualify for the event. But no, we're giving not only Europeans, but actual Koreans invites to a WCS they don't even live near?
My brain, it hurts. It hurts so bad. Demuslim not getting an invite, and Sundance saying "I'll investigate" is even worse - it means the guy wasn't even aware of the invites being sent out. To let some lower-management guy handle the invites to the NA region, which MLG pratically owns outright, without checking up on them before they're sent is just plain sad. "Growing pains and bumps along the way" doesn't even begin to describe.
DeMuslim isn't a north-American... or even an American.
I agree that he should have been invited.. but let's not have fits of apoplexy over it.
On April 11 2013 09:09 Aando wrote: I guess Naniwa is heading back to EU again. Disappointing but understandable.
I'm a little surprised too (unless these aren't accepted invites).
From the other article where MC was criticizing the system for encouraging a Korean exodus, Naniwa and Sase sounded like they were going to compete in Korea.
Oh well, realistically this makes more sense for them anyways.
I'm a little bothered by Nestea / Snute being in America instead of Ostojiy.
Snute as an American invite is especially weird to me; is there a reason he's not in the European region?
Moonglade and Capoch make sense because SEA / Oceania has always been lumped with US West in other Blizz games (WoW, BW, D2, ect). I guess that's why they have Sen too since it's WCS Korea not WCS Asia.
Edit: I'm singling out Snute / Nestea as they play the same race as Ostojiy. Violet actually lives in Texas, so he belongs here no matter what flag is on his TLPD.
I'm watching Polt stream right now and Demuslim is the only player that has taken a game off him in his past 25 games, it would be quite sad if he's really not invited.
Why the hell was HeroMarine not invited on EU? He finished 3rd respectively on the last major event on EU which was a completely open tournament (no invites or such)!
Instead, we see TitaN who might be a good player, but whose last accomplishment was two years ago???
On April 11 2013 09:16 Maesy wrote: Wow Blizzard really knows how to keep fucking up. Where are Demuslim and Kane, the two most hard working players of the fucking foreign scene so far? Fuck this joke of a tournament. First Koreans in NA/EU and now this.
two most hard working players of the fucking foreign scene
You are the one that is joking here.
They've put just as much work into HotS if not more than Koreans on the NA list and have been practicing like fucking crazy. Go watch the GSL if you want to watch Koreans instead of being complacent with absolutely destroying the foreign scene piece by piece by lowering the amount of high potential invites. I can't believe people like you are actually bother posting when you have no idea what you're talking about.
Who is KANE??? And Ostojiy? Do they even stream? Demuslim is a bad choice.He totally deserves to be invited but qxc...Its strange nobody is talking about Dragon hehe.Almost the most succesfull streamer and is not invited hahaha.I dont like him,because it seems he is always trolling...
On April 11 2013 09:16 Maesy wrote: Wow Blizzard really knows how to keep fucking up. Where are Demuslim and Kane, the two most hard working players of the fucking foreign scene so far? Fuck this joke of a tournament. First Koreans in NA/EU and now this.
two most hard working players of the fucking foreign scene
You are the one that is joking here.
They've put just as much work into HotS if not more than Koreans on the NA list and have been practicing like fucking crazy. Go watch the GSL if you want to watch Koreans instead of being complacent with absolutely destroying the foreign scene piece by piece by lowering the amount of high potential invites. I can't believe people like you are actually bother posting when you have no idea what you're talking about.
My point was that their ammount of ladder games comes no where close to what people like Kas, Happy, Snute and so on has put in the past six months or so.
I'm confused why people are surprised. I"m also confused why people are upset since they knew this was coming.
Why are the Dallas Cowboys part of NFC East? Carolina is NFC South yet Dallas is further south than Charlotte and Charlotte is further east.
This is basically what I expected. I can't even name 32 NA players so I don't know. The real question we have to ask ourselves is do we want true regional champions or do we want a true global champion?
Lets just see how this goes and make adjustments from there instead of going crazy and talking about how things are when they haven't even actually happened yet..
On April 11 2013 09:22 Dodgin wrote: I'm watching Polt stream right now and Demuslim is the only player that has taken a game off him in his past 25 games, it would be quite sad if he's really not invited.
Well he can beat the best Koreans in NA, so that is like reward unto itself, right? I mean, practicing hard gets you....not an invite? Disappearing for all of 2012, totally invited though.
On April 11 2013 09:16 Maesy wrote: Wow Blizzard really knows how to keep fucking up. Where are Demuslim and Kane, the two most hard working players of the fucking foreign scene so far? Fuck this joke of a tournament. First Koreans in NA/EU and now this.
two most hard working players of the fucking foreign scene
You are the one that is joking here.
They've put just as much work into HotS if not more than Koreans on the NA list and have been practicing like fucking crazy. Go watch the GSL if you want to watch Koreans instead of being complacent with absolutely destroying the foreign scene piece by piece by lowering the amount of high potential invites. I can't believe people like you are actually bother posting when you have no idea what you're talking about.
My point was that their ammount of ladder games comes no where close to what people like Kas, Happy, Snute and so on has put in the past six months or so.
Amount of ladder games is completely irrelevant to how much they're taking out of those ladder games and applying to their gameplay.
Invite lists have some terrible omissions. No lowely, fraer, demuslim? Why were any koreans invited to the eu or us regions other than those who live there as well. Lol hellokitty!
Tbh along with the terrible communication this wcs is an utter farce. Been thrown together last minute at the behest of someone who doesn't know what they are doing.
On April 11 2013 09:16 Maesy wrote: Wow Blizzard really knows how to keep fucking up. Where are Demuslim and Kane, the two most hard working players of the fucking foreign scene so far? Fuck this joke of a tournament. First Koreans in NA/EU and now this.
two most hard working players of the fucking foreign scene
You are the one that is joking here.
They've put just as much work into HotS if not more than Koreans on the NA list and have been practicing like fucking crazy. Go watch the GSL if you want to watch Koreans instead of being complacent with absolutely destroying the foreign scene piece by piece by lowering the amount of high potential invites. I can't believe people like you are actually bother posting when you have no idea what you're talking about.
My point was that their ammount of ladder games comes no where close to what people like Kas, Happy, Snute and so on has put in the past six months or so.
Amount of ladder games is completely irrelevant to how much they're taking out of those ladder games and applying to their gameplay.
Nice shifting of the goalposts. Try to keep your argument consistent.
On April 11 2013 09:26 _SpiRaL_ wrote: Snute obviously going to Korea for pro league!
Invite lists have some terrible omissions. No lowely, fraer, demuslim? Why were any koreans invited to the eu or us regions other than those who live there as well. Lol hellokitty!
Tbh along with the terrible communication this wcs is an utter farce. Been thrown together last minute at the behest of someone who doesn't know what they are doing.
Yeah, clearly they were in such a rush at MLG that right now they are going "Fuck, we forgot to look at the top of the NA ladder! That might have been important."
On April 11 2013 09:16 Maesy wrote: Wow Blizzard really knows how to keep fucking up. Where are Demuslim and Kane, the two most hard working players of the fucking foreign scene so far? Fuck this joke of a tournament. First Koreans in NA/EU and now this.
two most hard working players of the fucking foreign scene
You are the one that is joking here.
They've put just as much work into HotS if not more than Koreans on the NA list and have been practicing like fucking crazy. Go watch the GSL if you want to watch Koreans instead of being complacent with absolutely destroying the foreign scene piece by piece by lowering the amount of high potential invites. I can't believe people like you are actually bother posting when you have no idea what you're talking about.
My point was that their ammount of ladder games comes no where close to what people like Kas, Happy, Snute and so on has put in the past six months or so.
Amount of ladder games is completely irrelevant to how much they're taking out of those ladder games and applying to their gameplay.
Still, if you want the hardest working foreigner to recieve invites, half of the invitees would be Koreans, Europeans, and random master leaguers with fifteen thousand ladder games
On April 11 2013 09:24 Dvriel wrote: Who is KANE??? And Ostojiy? Do they even stream? Demuslim is a bad choice.He totally deserves to be invited but qxc...Its strange nobody is talking about Dragon hehe.Almost the most succesfull streamer and is not invited hahaha.I dont like him,because it seems he is always trolling...
If you have to ask who Ostojiy is then you didn't watch WCS 2012...
I don't know who Kane is either; so I guess I'll agree with you.
On April 11 2013 09:25 thurst0n wrote: I'm confused why people are surprised. I"m also confused why people are upset since they knew this was coming.
Why are the Dallas Cowboys part of NFC East? Carolina is NFC South yet Dallas is further south than Charlotte and Charlotte is further east.
To be fair there are historical reasons for the Cowboys being in the NFC East; which is only named that because the majority of the teams are in the US East coast when they renamed all the divisions. But I'm guessing you already knew that, unless you're really didn't know that North Carolina is in the part of America called 'The South', regardless of other places being just or farther south.
On April 11 2013 09:16 Maesy wrote: Wow Blizzard really knows how to keep fucking up. Where are Demuslim and Kane, the two most hard working players of the fucking foreign scene so far? Fuck this joke of a tournament. First Koreans in NA/EU and now this.
two most hard working players of the fucking foreign scene
You are the one that is joking here.
They've put just as much work into HotS if not more than Koreans on the NA list and have been practicing like fucking crazy. Go watch the GSL if you want to watch Koreans instead of being complacent with absolutely destroying the foreign scene piece by piece by lowering the amount of high potential invites. I can't believe people like you are actually bother posting when you have no idea what you're talking about.
My point was that their ammount of ladder games comes no where close to what people like Kas, Happy, Snute and so on has put in the past six months or so.
Amount of ladder games is completely irrelevant to how much they're taking out of those ladder games and applying to their gameplay.
Nice shifting of the goalposts. Try to keep your argument consistent.
Except it is consistent and I've done nothing but talk about how these two players need invites because of how good they are, which is also what I just pointed out. I'm not sure how that's "shifting goalposts". Maybe you're just really bad at reading.
On April 11 2013 09:22 Dodgin wrote: I'm watching Polt stream right now and Demuslim is the only player that has taken a game off him in his past 25 games, it would be quite sad if he's really not invited.
Polt has lost about 7 of 80 games this season, 2 of those losses were to Demuslim. His exclusion makes no sense.
NA also gets australia and china/taiwan?...... Wouldnt it be easier that china/taiwan players be grouped with korea. EU has it off wayyyy better then NA, so disappointing.
NA has 8 players that are not from NA and EU has 3...
On April 11 2013 09:16 Maesy wrote: Wow Blizzard really knows how to keep fucking up. Where are Demuslim and Kane, the two most hard working players of the fucking foreign scene so far? Fuck this joke of a tournament. First Koreans in NA/EU and now this.
two most hard working players of the fucking foreign scene
You are the one that is joking here.
They've put just as much work into HotS if not more than Koreans on the NA list and have been practicing like fucking crazy. Go watch the GSL if you want to watch Koreans instead of being complacent with absolutely destroying the foreign scene piece by piece by lowering the amount of high potential invites. I can't believe people like you are actually bother posting when you have no idea what you're talking about.
My point was that their ammount of ladder games comes no where close to what people like Kas, Happy, Snute and so on has put in the past six months or so.
Amount of ladder games is completely irrelevant to how much they're taking out of those ladder games and applying to their gameplay.
Nice shifting of the goalposts. Try to keep your argument consistent.
Except it is consistent and I've done nothing but talk about how these two players need invites because of how good they are, which is also what I just pointed out. I'm not sure how that's "shifting goalposts". Maybe you're just really bad at reading.
You said that they were two of the hardest working foreigners... which I have no idea how you know that is true. Then you said it was because they took the most out of their ladder games. Then you said it's because they are good.
Like I said before, I agree that DeMuslim should have been invited... but there is no need to go insane over it. If he's as good as you say (and I think he just might be) than he should be able to make it through the qualifiers.
edit: NVM, you went even further and said they were THE hardest working players in the foreign scene. Not even among the hardest working, but straight up THE hardest working...
On April 11 2013 09:26 _SpiRaL_ wrote: Snute obviously going to Korea for pro league!
Invite lists have some terrible omissions. No lowely, fraer, demuslim? Why were any koreans invited to the eu or us regions other than those who live there as well. Lol hellokitty!
Tbh along with the terrible communication this wcs is an utter farce. Been thrown together last minute at the behest of someone who doesn't know what they are doing.
Yeah, clearly they were in such a rush at MLG that right now they are going "Fuck, we forgot to look at the top of the NA ladder! That might have been important."
Instead they threw darts at player names. Who cares about ladder the three names I mentioned have way more results than many on the lists. Some of whom have quite literally no results.
On April 11 2013 09:30 EleanorRIgby wrote: NA also gets australia and china/taiwan?...... Wouldnt it be easier that china/taiwan players be grouped with korea. EU has it off wayyyy better then NA, so disappointing.
Can't force MG and Sen to take a plane and play code b.
On April 11 2013 09:22 JustPassingBy wrote: Why the hell was HeroMarine not invited on EU? He finished 3rd respectively on the last major event on EU which was a completely open tournament (no invites or such)!
Instead, we see TitaN who might be a good player, but whose last accomplishment was two years ago???
Wtf? Two years ago TitaN didn't even play SC2 yet.
You're hating on one invite on the list and you're choosing Titan? He won WCS RU and beat more Koreans than anyone else at the World Finals, you remember? 2-1 vs Curious, last GSL season's semifinalist and 2-0 vs herO, CJ Entus' Proleague ace!
How about, let's say TLO who got knocked out by Jaxx in the second round of the loser bracket in his NATIONAL tournament? Is he more worthy of an invite?
They should have done an open qualifier and scrapped all these stupid invites, but Titan isn't especially undeserving of one if you ask me.
On April 11 2013 09:30 EleanorRIgby wrote: NA also gets australia and china/taiwan?...... Wouldnt it be easier that china/taiwan players be grouped with korea. EU has it off wayyyy better then NA, so disappointing.
Can't force MG and Sen to take a plane and play code b.
Even if they can, the chance that they will get past eSF+ KeSPA is not much better than Artosis's.
On April 11 2013 09:08 GGQ wrote: I'm completely cool with people being allowed to play in whatever region they want. I just don't understand why people living outside NA would be invited to NA premier. They should have to qualify.
This sums up my complaints completely. No reason in even calling it WCS NA if you literally invite and fly over koreans and keep invites from pro locals to do so. Just absurd. Now the only people who have to go through the brutal qualifiers are the actual residents of NA and EU, as well as yet more Koreans who can play from their house.
On April 11 2013 09:16 Maesy wrote: Wow Blizzard really knows how to keep fucking up. Where are Demuslim and Kane, the two most hard working players of the fucking foreign scene so far? Fuck this joke of a tournament. First Koreans in NA/EU and now this.
two most hard working players of the fucking foreign scene
You are the one that is joking here.
They've put just as much work into HotS if not more than Koreans on the NA list and have been practicing like fucking crazy. Go watch the GSL if you want to watch Koreans instead of being complacent with absolutely destroying the foreign scene piece by piece by lowering the amount of high potential invites. I can't believe people like you are actually bother posting when you have no idea what you're talking about.
My point was that their ammount of ladder games comes no where close to what people like Kas, Happy, Snute and so on has put in the past six months or so.
Amount of ladder games is completely irrelevant to how much they're taking out of those ladder games and applying to their gameplay.
Nice shifting of the goalposts. Try to keep your argument consistent.
Except it is consistent and I've done nothing but talk about how these two players need invites because of how good they are, which is also what I just pointed out. I'm not sure how that's "shifting goalposts". Maybe you're just really bad at reading.
You werent saying they should be invited because of how good they were. Instead it was because they were the hardest workers. When pointed out they werent the hardest workers you decided hard work meant taking more from ladder games or some subjective nonsense. Now its just their skilllevel. Shiftibg the goal posts a second time. I should learn to read better.
On April 11 2013 09:34 katzenman wrote: guys pls remember, its not called "wcs north america", its called "wcs america" so ofc they invite some guys from south america.
i never heard of some of the american invites though like state,maker and hellokitty.^^
I don't think anyone is arguing against people from South America... State has been in the scene for awhile and has always been a great player, he just hasn't won anything. Hellokitty spent an absolutely shitton of time practicing for this on the beta and consistently released replays and such if I'm not mistaken. Maker? I have no idea who that is, honestly.
On April 11 2013 09:34 katzenman wrote: guys pls remember, its not called "wcs north america", its called "wcs america" so ofc they invite some guys from south america.
i never heard of some of the american invites though like state,maker and hellokitty.^^
I don't think anyone is arguing against people from South America... State has been in the scene for awhile and has always been a great player, he just hasn't won anything. Hellokitty spent an absolutely shitton of time practicing for this on the beta and consistently released replays and such if I'm not mistaken. Maker? I have no idea who that is, honestly.
How would anyone practice specifically for this during the beta when no one knew about it during the beta? Just by way of clarification.
EDIT: Especially with players like Maker, Capoch and HelloKitty getting an invite. I've heard of them before but have they really done anything notable enough to earn invites?
I'm really not trying to blindly hate on players here, so if they have done something significant to validate their invites that's awesome for them.
On April 11 2013 09:34 katzenman wrote: guys pls remember, its not called "wcs north america", its called "wcs america" so ofc they invite some guys from south america.
i never heard of some of the american invites though like state,maker and hellokitty.^^
I don't think anyone is arguing against people from South America... State has been in the scene for awhile and has always been a great player, he just hasn't won anything. Hellokitty spent an absolutely shitton of time practicing for this on the beta and consistently released replays and such if I'm not mistaken. Maker? I have no idea who that is, honestly.
How would anyone practice specifically for this during the beta when no one knew about it during the beta? Just by way of clarification.
Sorry, I worded that a little wrong. He was practicing hard to be one of the best players in HotS, not specifically for this tournament. Seems like people keep twisting my tongue today.
On April 11 2013 09:34 katzenman wrote: guys pls remember, its not called "wcs north america", its called "wcs america" so ofc they invite some guys from south america.
i never heard of some of the american invites though like state,maker and hellokitty.^^
I don't think anyone is arguing against people from South America... State has been in the scene for awhile and has always been a great player, he just hasn't won anything. Hellokitty spent an absolutely shitton of time practicing for this on the beta and consistently released replays and such if I'm not mistaken. Maker? I have no idea who that is, honestly.
Maker is the 2nd best player in Mexico...
I don't believe his skill is that close to Major's though, so who knows where he stacks up on the world scene (no I didn't watch last year's WCS before anyone asks).
On April 11 2013 09:22 JustPassingBy wrote: Why the hell was HeroMarine not invited on EU? He finished 3rd respectively on the last major event on EU which was a completely open tournament (no invites or such)!
Instead, we see TitaN who might be a good player, but whose last accomplishment was two years ago???
Wtf? Two years ago TitaN didn't even play SC2 yet.
You're hating on one invite on the list and you're choosing Titan? He won WCS RU and beat more Koreans than anyone else at the World Finals, you remember? 2-1 vs Curious, last GSL season's semifinalist and 2-0 vs herO, CJ Entus' Proleague ace!
How about, let's say TLO who got knocked out by Jaxx in the second round of the loser bracket in his NATIONAL tournament? Is he more worthy of an invite?
They should have done an open qualifier and scrapped all these stupid invites, but Titan isn't especially undeserving of one if you ask me.
Nevermind, I messed up, didn't look past "premier tournaments" in the accomplishments. Then at least I'll hope he'll make it past the qualifiers.
I think NA was mostly american player first (i mean from the continent, not US), and then players who they deemed worth the slot. Demuslim must had been an oversight because he played WCS EU last year, but he got a US Visa, so my bet is he will be in.
EU is the one which seems fishy to me, i don't understand why MMA and MVP got seeds over european players like lowely, instead of having to work the qualifiers like any non european should. I can understand forGG since he has been living in europe for quite a long time.
But well, i think that it's impossible to have all of us happy. And i guess that i am missing a lot of american players because i don't really follow that scene that should had been invited first over non american players.
It seems to me that the invited list of NA included gamers from GREAT KOREAN GAMERS, OTHER COUNTRYs(other than the three regions), NEW YOUNG TALENTs. This result in not enough spot to include everybody and not invite by performance.
If there's not enough spots, why we bring in all the Koreans that already have a region for themselves.
Base on the above category, DeMuslim not fit in any category because he is British. He should be include in EU (no room for him in NA).
On April 11 2013 09:50 Richard4021 wrote: It seems to me that the invited list of NA included gamers from GREAT KOREAN GAMERS, OTHER COUNTRYs(other than the three regions), NEW YOUNG TALENTs. This result in not enough spot to include everybody and not invite by performance.
If there's not enough spots, why we bring in all the Koreans that already have a region for themselves.
Base on the above category, DeMuslim not fit in any category because he is British. He should be include in EU (no room for him in NA).
He has a Visa and has been living on US (and plans on staying) for quite a long time. There is absolutely no reason for him not getting an invite. Same for Polt.
On April 11 2013 09:51 Darkhoarse wrote: Just out of curiosity why is Snute playing in NA?
I answered this pages ago, my guess that he is going to the EG TL house in korea. Not confirmed yet but he is suppossed to do an annoucement, so it sounds likely.
On April 11 2013 09:50 Richard4021 wrote: It seems to me that the invited list of NA included gamers from GREAT KOREAN GAMERS, OTHER COUNTRYs(other than the three regions), NEW YOUNG TALENTs. This result in not enough spot to include everybody and not invite by performance.
If there's not enough spots, why we bring in all the Koreans that already have a region for themselves.
Base on the above category, DeMuslim not fit in any category because he is British. He should be include in EU (no room for him in NA).
He has a Visa and has been living on US (and plans on staying) for quite a long time. There is absolutely no reason for him not getting an invite. Same for Polt.
On April 11 2013 09:51 Darkhoarse wrote: Just out of curiosity why is Snute playing in NA?
I answered this pages ago, my guess that he is going to the EG TL house in korea. Not confirmed yet but he is suppossed to do an annoucement, so it sounds likely.
I agreed that he should be one of the invites in NA if there is no GREAT KOREANS GAMERS included.
On April 11 2013 09:22 JustPassingBy wrote: Why the hell was HeroMarine not invited on EU? He finished 3rd respectively on the last major event on EU which was a completely open tournament (no invites or such)!
Instead, we see TitaN who might be a good player, but whose last accomplishment was two years ago???
Wtf? Two years ago TitaN didn't even play SC2 yet.
You're hating on one invite on the list and you're choosing Titan? He won WCS RU and beat more Koreans than anyone else at the World Finals, you remember? 2-1 vs Curious, last GSL season's semifinalist and 2-0 vs herO, CJ Entus' Proleague ace!
How about, let's say TLO who got knocked out by Jaxx in the second round of the loser bracket in his NATIONAL tournament? Is he more worthy of an invite?
They should have done an open qualifier and scrapped all these stupid invites, but Titan isn't especially undeserving of one if you ask me.
Nevermind, I messed up, didn't look past "premier tournaments" in the accomplishments. Then at least I'll hope he'll make it past the qualifiers.
On April 11 2013 09:50 Richard4021 wrote: It seems to me that the invited list of NA included gamers from GREAT KOREAN GAMERS, OTHER COUNTRYs(other than the three regions), NEW YOUNG TALENTs. This result in not enough spot to include everybody and not invite by performance.
If there's not enough spots, why we bring in all the Koreans that already have a region for themselves.
Base on the above category, DeMuslim not fit in any category because he is British. He should be include in EU (no room for him in NA).
Why on earth would koreans be prioritised over Demuslim who lives in the us? There is also even less room for him in eu than in us in terms of players.
On April 11 2013 09:48 Ryps wrote: Why would they invite koreans to european and american leagues, that blows my mind >.< How about you invite all foreigners in Korea to their league ?
One could argue this is exactly what GOM did in the past with Code S seeds, even though Code S was a separate league and not a qualifier.
On April 11 2013 09:50 Godwrath wrote: I think NA was mostly american player first (i mean from the continent, not US), and then players who they deemed worth the slot. Demuslim must had been an oversight because he played WCS EU last year, but he got a US Visa, so my bet is he will be in.
EU is the one which seems fishy to me, i don't understand why MMA and MVP got seeds over european players like lowely, instead of having to work the qualifiers like any non european should. I can understand forGG since he has been living in europe for quite a long time.
But well, i think that it's impossible to have all of us happy. And i guess that i am missing a lot of american players because i don't really follow that scene that should had been invited first over non american players.
MVP and MMA were not given seeds to EU, they chose EU as their region.
The underlining problem you have is still there but it is worth noting that the two players you mentioned were not invited to EU, they choose EU, as they are allowed to do. Whether or not they should be allowed to CHOOSE EU is of course another whole discussion.
On April 11 2013 09:22 JustPassingBy wrote: Why the hell was HeroMarine not invited on EU? He finished 3rd respectively on the last major event on EU which was a completely open tournament (no invites or such)!
Instead, we see TitaN who might be a good player, but whose last accomplishment was two years ago???
Wtf? Two years ago TitaN didn't even play SC2 yet.
You're hating on one invite on the list and you're choosing Titan? He won WCS RU and beat more Koreans than anyone else at the World Finals, you remember? 2-1 vs Curious, last GSL season's semifinalist and 2-0 vs herO, CJ Entus' Proleague ace!
How about, let's say TLO who got knocked out by Jaxx in the second round of the loser bracket in his NATIONAL tournament? Is he more worthy of an invite?
They should have done an open qualifier and scrapped all these stupid invites, but Titan isn't especially undeserving of one if you ask me.
Nevermind, I messed up, didn't look past "premier tournaments" in the accomplishments. Then at least I'll hope he'll make it past the qualifiers.
On April 11 2013 09:50 Godwrath wrote: I think NA was mostly american player first (i mean from the continent, not US), and then players who they deemed worth the slot. Demuslim must had been an oversight because he played WCS EU last year, but he got a US Visa, so my bet is he will be in.
EU is the one which seems fishy to me, i don't understand why MMA and MVP got seeds over european players like lowely, instead of having to work the qualifiers like any non european should. I can understand forGG since he has been living in europe for quite a long time.
But well, i think that it's impossible to have all of us happy. And i guess that i am missing a lot of american players because i don't really follow that scene that should had been invited first over non american players.
MVP and MMA were not given seeds to EU, they choose EU as their region.
The underlining problem you have is still there but it is worth noting that the two players you mentioned were not invited to EU, they choose EU, as they are allowed to do. Whether or not they should be allowed to CHOOSE EU is of course another whole discussion.
My english is bad, but i didn't imply that i think they shouldn't be able to choose EU (that's a different subject), but that they shouldn't be able to get automatically qualified over EU players. I guess i understood the whole thing wrong tho.
The problem is anyway that there are way too many invites compared to qualifier spots. It should be the other way around, 8 players invited and 24 qualify.
I feel like this doesn't really matter to be honest. Everything can be kept the same - just make it fully offline and Koreans will go away from NA by themselves. Or they won't and they will stay in US for a year or two, which will actually benefit the scene.
We just need to wait until Premier is fully offline, which probably should have come in 2014 but I bet they will be looking hard into ways how to make it offline ASAP, after the community backlash.
I think I have to just stop reading these forums because the negativity is just insane. This all looks really solid. Not surprising that there's some controversy over individual players, but overall it looks really good. I'm glad Minigun made the cut.
On April 11 2013 09:59 Redox wrote: The problem is anyway that there are way too many invites compared to qualifier spots. It should be the other way around, 8 players invited and 24 qualify.
Invites is the only way to gurantee that NA is mostly NA players, and EU is mostly EU players, besides region locking
On April 11 2013 10:11 EleanorRIgby wrote: on the korea invites list you have zergs like true and crazy but they didnt invite ZerO, some of these invites make no sense at all
There were no invites for Korea. The 'invites' were all players who qualified to play Code S and Code A last GSL, since it is the same tournament now.
EDIT: Just so we are clear before mentioning more names, ZerO, Bisu, herO etc failed at yesterday's qualifiers. There are more qualifiers coming up today, in about an hour.
On April 11 2013 10:11 ZerGGling wrote: the region is called americas, not US... thats the reason for inviting capoch for example who is from argentina i think
They should not do invites... gm ladder in region is better
On April 11 2013 10:11 EleanorRIgby wrote: on the korea invites list you have zergs like true and crazy but they didnt invite ZerO, some of these invites make no sense at all
Everyone in the korea list is just the code S players, they're not really invites.
On April 11 2013 10:11 EleanorRIgby wrote: on the korea invites list you have zergs like true and crazy but they didnt invite ZerO, some of these invites make no sense at all
There were no invites for Korea. The 'invites' were all players who qualified to play Code S and Code A last GSL, since it is the same tournament now.
Damn tha'ts what the other regions should have done. Way too many invites because all the tournaments want the popular players rather then players that deserve it. More qualifiers please
On April 11 2013 10:11 EleanorRIgby wrote: on the korea invites list you have zergs like true and crazy but they didnt invite ZerO, some of these invites make no sense at all
There were no invites for Korea. The 'invites' were all players who qualified to play Code S and Code A last GSL, since it is the same tournament now.
Damn tha'ts what the other regions should have done. Way too many invites because all the tournaments want the popular players rather then players that deserve it. More qualifiers please
But there was no US or EU Code S before And actually, the WCS EU goes against your statement, they didn't invite White-Ra for example, which they had to do if they wanted only popular players,
On April 11 2013 09:46 mouzIllusion wrote: Seems to be some correlation between 2012 BWC players and players invited
Try explaining that to lowely .
It really is amazing regarding Lowely. DuMuslim, sure, good player but kind of 'took off 2012' so to speak but boy, I though Lowely had himself a heck of a year...
On April 11 2013 10:11 EleanorRIgby wrote: on the korea invites list you have zergs like true and crazy but they didnt invite ZerO, some of these invites make no sense at all
There were no invites for Korea. The 'invites' were all players who qualified to play Code S and Code A last GSL, since it is the same tournament now.
Damn tha'ts what the other regions should have done. Way too many invites because all the tournaments want the popular players rather then players that deserve it. More qualifiers please
But there was no US or EU Code S before
Indeed. I'll forgive blizzard the first year. But i do feel the gm ladder should be incorporated in the gsl NA, KR and EU tournament. This will inspire everyone to play on ladder in there region of choice in the future. And every game counts, better for streaming
I'm surprised Insur didn't make the NA list: 3rd WCS USA, 5th/6th WCS NA, 17th-24th BWC. Unless he declined, I think it was a mistake not to invite him.
Wow, can't believe DeMusliM didn't get invited, he would've provided very competitive games with the Koreans, at least in the online part Probably the 2nd best non Korean Terran IMO. EU list looks good, there's bound to be some people who got shafted since there is a lot more talent there than in NA.
I'm thinking all these invites is just to get the 1st season underway. 2nd season better have no more than 8 players guaranteed from season 1 and the rest actually have to qualify. Too many Invites so lame.
On April 11 2013 10:28 Waxangel wrote: wait so do we give a fuck that tournaments are inviting 75%+ of their players without qualifiers now, or is that soooo last year?
Gotta have some way to get americans in the tournament dont we ?
On April 11 2013 10:28 Waxangel wrote: wait so do we give a fuck that tournaments are inviting 75%+ of their players without qualifiers now, or is that soooo last year?
On April 11 2013 10:28 Waxangel wrote: wait so do we give a fuck that tournaments are inviting 75%+ of their players without qualifiers now, or is that soooo last year?
I gave a fuck in all the previous threads, but no one seemed to share my sentiment
Not to mention it's a new game and there's no indication any of these players actually deserve an invite (well, not any, but a lot are untested in HOTS)
I love how there are so many players that have had ZERO results ever. WCS is just another popularity contest and it has diminished the value of the GSL. I'm really disappointed on how everything has turned out. Makes me very sad.
On April 11 2013 10:28 Waxangel wrote: wait so do we give a fuck that tournaments are inviting 75%+ of their players without qualifiers now, or is that soooo last year?
They should have done proper qualification, but I guess time is short!
On April 11 2013 10:28 Waxangel wrote: wait so do we give a fuck that tournaments are inviting 75%+ of their players without qualifiers now, or is that soooo last year?
It's only for this season, if they're absolute garbage then they'll be replaced by someone from the (non invite) Challenger league so, frankly I'm fine with it.
On April 11 2013 10:34 Fionn wrote: the entire code s/a could move to na and eu, and i'd still give code b a big advantage if the entire foreigner base then moved to kr
On April 11 2013 10:28 Waxangel wrote: wait so do we give a fuck that tournaments are inviting 75%+ of their players without qualifiers now, or is that soooo last year?
hehe most probably don't I do but I am used to tournaments doing it and don't think it'll ever change except for TSL which is awesome wish more people did what TSL does :D.
On April 11 2013 10:28 Waxangel wrote: wait so do we give a fuck that tournaments are inviting 75%+ of their players without qualifiers now, or is that soooo last year?
I gave a fuck in all the previous threads, but no one seemed to share my sentiment
Not to mention it's a new game and there's no indication any of these players actually deserve an invite (well, not any, but a lot are untested in HOTS)
people mostly sided with MC when he cited this as a big issue in WCS KR (and there it was even based on something very real: performance in the last WoL GSL) , but now so many other issues with the whole thing have arisen that most get distracted from the fact that invites are a terrible way of conducting things, especially with the supposed goals of WCS.
I'm with ya!
On April 11 2013 09:34 StarVe wrote: They should have done an open qualifier and scrapped all these stupid invites, but Titan isn't especially undeserving of one if you ask me.
Some of you are being a bit emo about this, they had to rush this out, invites were a necessity to establish this bitch, it'll be mostly offline next year which should solve some problems. Don't be blindly patriotic, NA scene is lacking in talent, I'm excited to see NesTea and Ryung and hopefully some more bad ass koreans come through qualification, does it make a shitload of sense for them specifically? No, but it will be super sweet to see.
I'm more disappointed with the weaker, stranger invites that made it onto the NA list, don't think I need to name names. At least you know the koreans will bring legitamcy to the competition by raising the skill level, the others just baffle me. No DeMuslim is an outrage but I'd have loved to see QXC too and I'm pretty sure there could be a case made for many players over some that were picked.
All together though it's good for the game, try not to be whiney hysterical bitches about the things you don't like and forsake the entire thing.
On April 11 2013 10:11 EleanorRIgby wrote: on the korea invites list you have zergs like true and crazy but they didnt invite ZerO, some of these invites make no sense at all
those "invites" are Code S spots that they earned?
On April 11 2013 10:11 EleanorRIgby wrote: on the korea invites list you have zergs like true and crazy but they didnt invite ZerO, some of these invites make no sense at all
those "invites" are Code S spots that they earned?
haha yeah unlike EU/NA the ones in korea WCS all earned there spots through qualifiers unlike NA/EU where it's mainly invite.
On April 11 2013 08:14 nmetasch wrote: That looks like a pretty solid list. Most of the koreans are foreign team koreans, I was lead to believe it'd be more koreans lol. Any koreans that work their way through the qualies deserve it anyway, but I would be against seeding them in.
Agreed. I'm VERY Happy now. The "Leaked" lists were very wrong. There's only a few Koreans in NA.
Those are not 'leaked' lists. Those Koreans will still play in NA, they just weren't invited and have to qualify (which they will..)
From the Blizzard Q&A "...24 players in each region have been extended invitations to compete in WCS America and WCS Europe based on their performance in past StarCraft II tournaments."
Someone care to explain how someone like Hellykitty get picks ahead of say Taeja, aLive (who won IPL4) and Alicia (who got two 2nd place finishes in MLG tournaments in 2012)? Either players are free to play in whatever region they like or they aren't, the NA invite list makes no sense.
On April 11 2013 10:41 bongling wrote: Some of you are being a bit emo about this, they had to rush this out, invites were a necessity to establish this bitch, it'll be mostly offline next year which should solve some problems. Don't be blindly patriotic, NA scene is lacking in talent, I'm excited to see NesTea and Ryung and hopefully some more bad ass koreans come through qualification, does it make a shitload of sense for them specifically? No, but it will be super sweet to see.
I'm more disappointed with the weaker, stranger invites that made it onto the NA list, don't think I need to name names. At least you know the koreans will bring legitamcy to the competition by raising the skill level, the others just baffle me. No DeMuslim is an outrage but I'd have loved to see QXC too and I'm pretty sure there could be a case made for many players over some that were picked.
All together though it's good for the game, try not to be whiney hysterical bitches about the things you don't like and forsake the entire thing.
Yeah. Calling everybody whiny bitches because they disagree with something that's very obviously terrible is a great way to go about life.
On April 11 2013 10:49 betaman wrote: From the Blizzard Q&A "...24 players in each region have been extended invitations to compete in WCS America and WCS Europe based on their performance in past StarCraft II tournaments."
Someone care to explain how someone like Hellykitty get picks ahead of say Taeja, aLive (who won IPL4) and Alicia (who got two 2nd place finishes in MLG tournaments in 2012)? Either players are free to play in whatever region they like or they aren't, the NA invite list makes no sense.
1. Taeja is still in code S this season, and will likely play in NA next season. 2. They are probably trying to limit the # of Korean invites and if they did extend invites, there are bigger names than Alive and Alicia.
This season isnt the season we should judge blizzard. Its the season after that counts. People want to see a fair selection proces to the gsl NA, EU. Seeing all the feedback, blizzard will work hard to make it so, dont worry.
But they must give a statement soon about next seasons selection proces for gsl NA and EU, which is hopefully fair to all the players and based on measureable skill.
On April 11 2013 10:49 betaman wrote: From the Blizzard Q&A "...24 players in each region have been extended invitations to compete in WCS America and WCS Europe based on their performance in past StarCraft II tournaments."
Someone care to explain how someone like Hellykitty get picks ahead of say Taeja, aLive (who won IPL4) and Alicia (who got two 2nd place finishes in MLG tournaments in 2012)? Either players are free to play in whatever region they like or they aren't, the NA invite list makes no sense.
Because they're actually looking at the GM ladder like they said they would be? You actually have a fucking problem with somebody playing on America getting picked to play America and then complaining about there not being more Koreans in the WCS America? What the fuck is wrong with people? There should be more names from the top of the GM ladder on this list. This isn't a popularity contest. This is what this was meant to be for.
What probably happened was that their methodology was bad and grouped Demuslim with the non-Americans. So Hellokitty and Capoch were taken from the "Americans" list, and Ryung, Hero, etc were taken from the "non-Americans" list. Obviously Demuslim is going to not make it on a list that has 20 Koreans on it.
However, I disagree on how they made their lists. They made their lists by citizenship and not by residency. I don't think anyone would have a problem with Polt or Demuslim coming from the "Americans" list as they went through the pains of actually moving here. Both even practice on the NA ladder. It's not like they're going to be playing the online matches from their home countries.
All it takes to fix this is to re-run their numbers and just sort by current residency instead of current citizenship.
EDIT: You can also make an argument for Sen and Moonglade coming from an "Americans" list since they don't have a region to call their own. The point of reserving 8 spots for non-Americans is to avoid it being a Korean tournament that just happens to take place in New York.
On April 11 2013 11:06 Branman wrote: What probably happened was that their methodology was bad and grouped Demuslim with the non-Americans. So Hellokitty and Capoch were taken from the "Americans" list, and Ryung, Hero, etc were taken from the "non-Americans" list. Obviously Demuslim is going to not make it on a list that has 20 Koreans on it.
However, I disagree on how they made their lists. They made their lists by citizenship and not by residency. I don't think anyone would have a problem with Polt or Demuslim coming from the "Americans" list as they went through the pains of actually moving here. Both even practice on the NA ladder. It's not like they're going to be playing the online matches from their home countries.
All it takes to fix this is to re-run their numbers and just sort by current residency instead of current citizenship.
At this point the only way demuslim gets added to a list is they take away a qualifier spot. They won't take away someone elses invite at this point. Unless he was actually overlooked, it sounds like your idea of him being grouped with non-americans could be correct and he is basically gunna get shafted, have to try and qualify, which will be much harder.
I feel real bad for demuslim, but also the other pro players that everyones shitting on ( hellokitty). Its not them who didn't invite demuslim, they got invited and they accepted.
On April 11 2013 10:49 betaman wrote: From the Blizzard Q&A "...24 players in each region have been extended invitations to compete in WCS America and WCS Europe based on their performance in past StarCraft II tournaments."
Someone care to explain how someone like Hellykitty get picks ahead of say Taeja, aLive (who won IPL4) and Alicia (who got two 2nd place finishes in MLG tournaments in 2012)? Either players are free to play in whatever region they like or they aren't, the NA invite list makes no sense.
Because they're actually looking at the GM ladder like they said they would be? You actually have a fucking problem with somebody playing on America getting picked to play America and then complaining about there not being more Koreans in the WCS America? What the fuck is wrong with people? There should be more names from the top of the GM ladder on this list. This isn't a popularity contest. This is what this was meant to be for.
Demuslim is GM #1 in NA so they clearly arent using GM ladder very well...From the Q&A they said the invites would be base on their performance in past SC2 tournaments. I feel regions should be locked by residency but if you dont then you should pick the invites on merit.
On April 11 2013 10:28 Waxangel wrote: wait so do we give a fuck that tournaments are inviting 75%+ of their players without qualifiers now, or is that soooo last year?
I figure with how truncated their schedule is and with the lack of notice that it is understandable in this particular situation. They also obviously want a minimum number of players from NA in this league and that would be by no means guaranteed with a fair and open qualification stage!
On April 11 2013 10:49 betaman wrote: From the Blizzard Q&A "...24 players in each region have been extended invitations to compete in WCS America and WCS Europe based on their performance in past StarCraft II tournaments."
Someone care to explain how someone like Hellykitty get picks ahead of say Taeja, aLive (who won IPL4) and Alicia (who got two 2nd place finishes in MLG tournaments in 2012)? Either players are free to play in whatever region they like or they aren't, the NA invite list makes no sense.
Because they're actually looking at the GM ladder like they said they would be? You actually have a fucking problem with somebody playing on America getting picked to play America and then complaining about there not being more Koreans in the WCS America? What the fuck is wrong with people? There should be more names from the top of the GM ladder on this list. This isn't a popularity contest. This is what this was meant to be for.
Demuslim is GM #1 in NA so they clearly arent using GM ladder very well...From the Q&A they said the invites would be base on their performance in past SC2 tournaments. I feel regions should be locked by residency but if you dont then you should pick the invites on merit.
I agree with you there. I went through the list once more and now I'm wondering where the fuck ROOTPuck is. This entire thing is so silly.
On April 11 2013 10:49 betaman wrote: From the Blizzard Q&A "...24 players in each region have been extended invitations to compete in WCS America and WCS Europe based on their performance in past StarCraft II tournaments."
Someone care to explain how someone like Hellykitty get picks ahead of say Taeja, aLive (who won IPL4) and Alicia (who got two 2nd place finishes in MLG tournaments in 2012)? Either players are free to play in whatever region they like or they aren't, the NA invite list makes no sense.
Because they're actually looking at the GM ladder like they said they would be? You actually have a fucking problem with somebody playing on America getting picked to play America and then complaining about there not being more Koreans in the WCS America? What the fuck is wrong with people? There should be more names from the top of the GM ladder on this list. This isn't a popularity contest. This is what this was meant to be for.
Demuslim is GM #1 in NA so they clearly arent using GM ladder very well...From the Q&A they said the invites would be base on their performance in past SC2 tournaments. I feel regions should be locked by residency but if you dont then you should pick the invites on merit.
Doesn't explain why Theognis was picked over Demuslim then, as i can't recall him having any results.
The reaction of some people are pretty ridiculous and melodramatic, didn't say everyone was being a whiney bitch, just a select few that are acting like this is a devastating travesty. It's nowhere near perfect, I'm being optimistic about it and I still have concerns about it. The freaking out and negativity about this whole thing though seems crazy to me, I don't understand it.
They're setting up this worldwide complex new fangled system, it's a bit of a clusterfuck now trying to get this thing going and it'll at least take this year, maybe the next for everything to sort itself out naturally, but unless they completely drop the ball, it's got to be good for the game. Just think people should focus on the macro, not the micro, just my humble opinion.
Wish they slipped Jaedong in there somewhere even if it doesn't make much sense.
On April 11 2013 10:49 betaman wrote: From the Blizzard Q&A "...24 players in each region have been extended invitations to compete in WCS America and WCS Europe based on their performance in past StarCraft II tournaments."
Someone care to explain how someone like Hellykitty get picks ahead of say Taeja, aLive (who won IPL4) and Alicia (who got two 2nd place finishes in MLG tournaments in 2012)? Either players are free to play in whatever region they like or they aren't, the NA invite list makes no sense.
Because they're actually looking at the GM ladder like they said they would be? You actually have a fucking problem with somebody playing on America getting picked to play America and then complaining about there not being more Koreans in the WCS America? What the fuck is wrong with people? There should be more names from the top of the GM ladder on this list. This isn't a popularity contest. This is what this was meant to be for.
Demuslim is GM #1 in NA so they clearly arent using GM ladder very well...From the Q&A they said the invites would be base on their performance in past SC2 tournaments. I feel regions should be locked by residency but if you dont then you should pick the invites on merit.
Doesn't explain why Theognis was picked over Demuslim then, as i can't recall him having any results.
I guess because he is American? It would be nice if Blizzard had a modicum of transparency but I guess that is too much to ask for. It would have been far better if everyone had to qualify for the first season of EU/NA WCS.
hi guys, i am hellokitty, a bit of what I know of why i Might be invited. 1. I finished WCS USA #5 last year 2. I finished WCS NA top 24 last year losing to major(runner up WCS NA) and State (top 7 WCS NA) 3. I finished MLG raleigh top 32 Please stop the bandwagon of "INVITE DEMUSLIM QXC AND SASQUATCH" because 1. demuslim is EU, bad part by MLG for failing to notice that. 2. I shit on sasquatch during WCS USA qualifier and WCS USA itself. 3. QXC is a good player but I placed higher than him during WCS USA(might have something to do with it)
thank you very much Not trying to flame, just calm the fuck down with my name.
On April 11 2013 11:36 hellokittySC2 wrote: hi guys, i am hellokitty, a bit of what I know of why i Might be invited. 1. I finished WCS USA #5 last year 2. I finished WCS NA top 24 last year losing to major(runner up WCS NA) and State (top 7 WCS NA) 3. I finished MLG raleigh top 32 Please stop the bandwagon of "INVITE DEMUSLIM QXC AND SASQUATCH" because 1. demuslim is EU, bad part by MLG for failing to notice that. 2. I shit on sasquatch during WCS USA qualifier and WCS USA itself. 3. QXC is a good player but I placed higher than him during WCS USA(might have something to do with it)
thank you very much Not trying to flame, just calm the fuck down with my name.
I love you comming to defend yourself, And I wish you all the best in WCS, prove them all wrong.
That being said, Demuslim Lives in The US and went through the long process of getting a visa to live here, so classifying him as EU now would just be wrong as he has stated he enjoys where he is and wants to stay here.
NA is missing Demuslim(obviously said 9000x over) but Leiya and Kane are two that will be sorely missed, especially LeiYa. I guess with limited invites....hard to have everyone win.
On April 11 2013 11:36 hellokittySC2 wrote: hi guys, i am hellokitty, a bit of what I know of why i Might be invited. 1. I finished WCS USA #5 last year 2. I finished WCS NA top 24 last year losing to major(runner up WCS NA) and State (top 7 WCS NA) 3. I finished MLG raleigh top 32 Please stop the bandwagon of "INVITE DEMUSLIM QXC AND SASQUATCH" because 1. demuslim is EU, bad part by MLG for failing to notice that. 2. I shit on sasquatch during WCS USA qualifier and WCS USA itself. 3. QXC is a good player but I placed higher than him during WCS USA(might have something to do with it)
thank you very much Not trying to flame, just calm the fuck down with my name.
I love you comming to defend yourself, And I wish you all the best in WCS, prove them all wrong.
That being said, Demuslim Lives in The US and went through the long process of getting a visa to live here, so classifying him as EU now would just be wrong as he has stated he enjoys where he is and wants to stay here.
yes, i agree, so have him over someone from KOREA would be a better response since i think everyone who lives in the US or NA in general should have a higher priority over foreigners.
On April 11 2013 11:36 hellokittySC2 wrote: hi guys, i am hellokitty, a bit of what I know of why i Might be invited. 1. I finished WCS USA #5 last year 2. I finished WCS NA top 24 last year losing to major(runner up WCS NA) and State (top 7 WCS NA) 3. I finished MLG raleigh top 32 Please stop the bandwagon of "INVITE DEMUSLIM QXC AND SASQUATCH" because 1. demuslim is EU, bad part by MLG for failing to notice that. 2. I shit on sasquatch during WCS USA qualifier and WCS USA itself. 3. QXC is a good player but I placed higher than him during WCS USA(might have something to do with it)
thank you very much Not trying to flame, just calm the fuck down with my name.
I love you comming to defend yourself, And I wish you all the best in WCS, prove them all wrong.
That being said, Demuslim Lives in The US and went through the long process of getting a visa to live here, so classifying him as EU now would just be wrong as he has stated he enjoys where he is and wants to stay here.
yes, i agree, so have him over someone from KOREA would be a better response since i think everyone who lives in the US or NA in general should have a higher priority over foreigners.
looking forward for you to be matched against idra to beat him badly lol.(that comment few weeks ago on your rep thread) good luck!
I've been doing some research on the announced participants of WCS NA Premier as I plan to do in depth coverage of the WCS NA scene. For those of you who are curious or maybe didn't recognize some of the names that were listed (I know failed to recognize a few), I have compiled a quick list detailing each participant's history in WCS, such as it is.
KiLLeR: 1st Chile Nationals; 1st South American Finals; Top 8 Global Finals
Scarlett: 1st Canada Nationals; 1st North American Finals; Top 16 Global Finals
IdrA: 4th US Nationals; 3rd North American Finals; Top 16 Global Finals
Suppy: Top 16 US Nationals; 10th North American Finals; Top 8 Global Finals
Fenix: 1st Peru Nationals; 2nd South American Finals; Invited to Global Finals
ViBE: 1st US Nationals; 2nd North American Finals; Invited to Global Finals
HuK: 10th Canada Nationals; 9th North American Finals; Invited to Global Finals
Illusion: Top 8 US Nationals; Top 8 North American Finals; Top 16 Global Finals
Major: 1st Mexico Nationals; 4th North American Finals; Invited to Global Finals
State: Top 16 US Nationals; Top 6 North American Finals; Invited to Global Finals
Goswser: Top 16 US Nationals; Top 16 North American Finals
Hellokitty: Top 8 US Nationals; Top 24 North American Finals
Minigun: Invited to US Nationals.
Theognis: Top 16 US Nationals; Top 24 North American Finals
Capoch: 1st Argentina Nationals; Top 6 South American Finals
Maker: 2nd Mexico Nationals; Top 24 North American Finals
Ryung: Did not participate.
HerO: Top 8 Korean Nationals; 3rd Asian Finals; Top 8 Global Finals
Violet: Did not participate.
Polt: Top 12 Korean Nationals
mOOnGLaDe: 2nd Australian Nationals; 1st Oceania Finals; Invited to Global Finals
Sen: 1st Taiwan Nationals; Top 12 Asia Finals; 4th Global Finals
I've been doing some research on the announced participants of WCS NA Premier as I plan to do in depth coverage of the WCS NA scene. For those of you who are curious or maybe didn't recognize some of the names that were listed (I know failed to recognize a few), I have compiled a quick list detailing each participant's history in WCS, such as it is.
KiLLeR: 1st Chile Nationals; 1st South American Finals; Top 8 Global Finals
Scarlett: 1st Canada Nationals; 1st North American Finals; Top 16 Global Finals
IdrA: 4th US Nationals; 3rd North American Finals; Top 16 Global Finals
Suppy: Top 16 US Nationals; 10th North American Finals; Top 8 Global Finals
Fenix: 1st Peru Nationals; 2nd South American Finals; Invited to Global Finals
ViBE: 1st US Nationals; 2nd North American Finals; Invited to Global Finals
HuK: 10th Canada Nationals; 9th North American Finals; Invited to Global Finals
Illusion: Top 8 US Nationals; Top 8 North American Finals; Top 16 Global Finals
Major: 1st Mexico Nationals; 4th North American Finals; Invited to Global Finals
State: Top 16 US Nationals; Top 6 North American Finals; Invited to Global Finals
Goswser: Top 16 US Nationals; Top 16 North American Finals
Hellokitty: Top 8 US Nationals; Top 24 North American Finals
Minigun: Invited to US Nationals.
Theognis: Top 16 US Nationals; Top 24 North American Finals
Capoch: 1st Argentina Nationals; Top 6 South American Finals
Maker: 2nd Mexico Nationals; Top 24 North American Finals
Ryung: Did not participate.
HerO: Top 8 Korean Nationals; 3rd Asian Finals; Top 8 Global Finals
Violet: Did not participate.
Polt: Top 12 Korean Nationals
mOOnGLaDe: 2nd Australian Nationals; 1st Oceania Finals; Invited to Global Finals
Sen: 1st Taiwan Nationals; Top 12 Asia Finals; 4th Global Finals
NesTea: Did not qualify.
Snute: 4th Norway Nationals
This season doesnt matter. They should communicate next seasons selection proces so players can work on getting qualified
I've been doing some research on the announced participants of WCS NA Premier as I plan to do in depth coverage of the WCS NA scene. For those of you who are curious or maybe didn't recognize some of the names that were listed (I know failed to recognize a few), I have compiled a quick list detailing each participant's history in WCS, such as it is.
KiLLeR: 1st Chile Nationals; 1st South American Finals; Top 8 Global Finals
Scarlett: 1st Canada Nationals; 1st North American Finals; Top 16 Global Finals
IdrA: 4th US Nationals; 3rd North American Finals; Top 16 Global Finals
Suppy: Top 16 US Nationals; 10th North American Finals; Top 8 Global Finals
Fenix: 1st Peru Nationals; 2nd South American Finals; Invited to Global Finals
ViBE: 1st US Nationals; 2nd North American Finals; Invited to Global Finals
HuK: 10th Canada Nationals; 9th North American Finals; Invited to Global Finals
Illusion: Top 8 US Nationals; Top 8 North American Finals; Top 16 Global Finals
Major: 1st Mexico Nationals; 4th North American Finals; Invited to Global Finals
State: Top 16 US Nationals; Top 6 North American Finals; Invited to Global Finals
Goswser: Top 16 US Nationals; Top 16 North American Finals
Hellokitty: Top 8 US Nationals; Top 24 North American Finals
Minigun: Invited to US Nationals.
Theognis: Top 16 US Nationals; Top 24 North American Finals
Capoch: 1st Argentina Nationals; Top 6 South American Finals
Maker: 2nd Mexico Nationals; Top 24 North American Finals
Ryung: Did not participate.
HerO: Top 8 Korean Nationals; 3rd Asian Finals; Top 8 Global Finals
Violet: Did not participate.
Polt: Top 12 Korean Nationals
mOOnGLaDe: 2nd Australian Nationals; 1st Oceania Finals; Invited to Global Finals
Sen: 1st Taiwan Nationals; Top 12 Asia Finals; 4th Global Finals
NesTea: Did not qualify.
Snute: 4th Norway Nationals
Thats pretty cool, So maybe it is becasue demuslim didn't do aswell in WCS? And so the koreans were invited over him since they have more accomplishments outside of wcs? :S He made it to WCS EU finals didn't he?
I've been doing some research on the announced participants of WCS NA Premier as I plan to do in depth coverage of the WCS NA scene. For those of you who are curious or maybe didn't recognize some of the names that were listed (I know failed to recognize a few), I have compiled a quick list detailing each participant's history in WCS, such as it is.
KiLLeR: 1st Chile Nationals; 1st South American Finals; Top 8 Global Finals
Scarlett: 1st Canada Nationals; 1st North American Finals; Top 16 Global Finals
IdrA: 4th US Nationals; 3rd North American Finals; Top 16 Global Finals
Suppy: Top 16 US Nationals; 10th North American Finals; Top 8 Global Finals
Fenix: 1st Peru Nationals; 2nd South American Finals; Invited to Global Finals
ViBE: 1st US Nationals; 2nd North American Finals; Invited to Global Finals
HuK: 10th Canada Nationals; 9th North American Finals; Invited to Global Finals
Illusion: Top 8 US Nationals; Top 8 North American Finals; Top 16 Global Finals
Major: 1st Mexico Nationals; 4th North American Finals; Invited to Global Finals
State: Top 16 US Nationals; Top 6 North American Finals; Invited to Global Finals
Goswser: Top 16 US Nationals; Top 16 North American Finals
Hellokitty: Top 8 US Nationals; Top 24 North American Finals
Minigun: Invited to US Nationals.
Theognis: Top 16 US Nationals; Top 24 North American Finals
Capoch: 1st Argentina Nationals; Top 6 South American Finals
Maker: 2nd Mexico Nationals; Top 24 North American Finals
Ryung: Did not participate.
HerO: Top 8 Korean Nationals; 3rd Asian Finals; Top 8 Global Finals
Violet: Did not participate.
Polt: Top 12 Korean Nationals
mOOnGLaDe: 2nd Australian Nationals; 1st Oceania Finals; Invited to Global Finals
Sen: 1st Taiwan Nationals; Top 12 Asia Finals; 4th Global Finals
NesTea: Did not qualify.
Snute: 4th Norway Nationals
This season doesnt matter. They should communicate next seasons selection proces so players can work on getting qualified
But this season does matter, because to get into premier you have to go through challenger and beat somebody in premier, not to mention the money/potential lost by not being invite. And apparently people can switch regions next season, with lots of koreans choosing NA.... making the challenger division very difficult.
I've been doing some research on the announced participants of WCS NA Premier as I plan to do in depth coverage of the WCS NA scene. For those of you who are curious or maybe didn't recognize some of the names that were listed (I know failed to recognize a few), I have compiled a quick list detailing each participant's history in WCS, such as it is.
KiLLeR: 1st Chile Nationals; 1st South American Finals; Top 8 Global Finals
Scarlett: 1st Canada Nationals; 1st North American Finals; Top 16 Global Finals
IdrA: 4th US Nationals; 3rd North American Finals; Top 16 Global Finals
Suppy: Top 16 US Nationals; 10th North American Finals; Top 8 Global Finals
Fenix: 1st Peru Nationals; 2nd South American Finals; Invited to Global Finals
ViBE: 1st US Nationals; 2nd North American Finals; Invited to Global Finals
HuK: 10th Canada Nationals; 9th North American Finals; Invited to Global Finals
Illusion: Top 8 US Nationals; Top 8 North American Finals; Top 16 Global Finals
Major: 1st Mexico Nationals; 4th North American Finals; Invited to Global Finals
State: Top 16 US Nationals; Top 6 North American Finals; Invited to Global Finals
Goswser: Top 16 US Nationals; Top 16 North American Finals
Hellokitty: Top 8 US Nationals; Top 24 North American Finals
Minigun: Invited to US Nationals.
Theognis: Top 16 US Nationals; Top 24 North American Finals
Capoch: 1st Argentina Nationals; Top 6 South American Finals
Maker: 2nd Mexico Nationals; Top 24 North American Finals
Ryung: Did not participate.
HerO: Top 8 Korean Nationals; 3rd Asian Finals; Top 8 Global Finals
Violet: Did not participate.
Polt: Top 12 Korean Nationals
mOOnGLaDe: 2nd Australian Nationals; 1st Oceania Finals; Invited to Global Finals
Sen: 1st Taiwan Nationals; Top 12 Asia Finals; 4th Global Finals
NesTea: Did not qualify.
Snute: 4th Norway Nationals
Thats pretty cool, So maybe it is becasue demuslim didn't do aswell in WCS? And so the koreans were invited over him since they have more accomplishments outside of wcs? :S He made it to WCS EU finals didn't he?
2nd place UK WCS and top 16 EU WCS are pretty solid WCS results.
On April 11 2013 11:36 hellokittySC2 wrote: hi guys, i am hellokitty, a bit of what I know of why i Might be invited. 1. I finished WCS USA #5 last year 2. I finished WCS NA top 24 last year losing to major(runner up WCS NA) and State (top 7 WCS NA) 3. I finished MLG raleigh top 32 Please stop the bandwagon of "INVITE DEMUSLIM QXC AND SASQUATCH" because 1. demuslim is EU, bad part by MLG for failing to notice that. 2. I shit on sasquatch during WCS USA qualifier and WCS USA itself. 3. QXC is a good player but I placed higher than him during WCS USA(might have something to do with it)
thank you very much Not trying to flame, just calm the fuck down with my name.
I love you comming to defend yourself, And I wish you all the best in WCS, prove them all wrong.
That being said, Demuslim Lives in The US and went through the long process of getting a visa to live here, so classifying him as EU now would just be wrong as he has stated he enjoys where he is and wants to stay here.
yes, i agree, so have him over someone from KOREA would be a better response since i think everyone who lives in the US or NA in general should have a higher priority over foreigners.
lol. don't listen to these armchair ladder heroes kitty. I can say you're one of the few players in NA that can actually challenge koreans. I watched you tear through the Raleigh open bracket. Played you in some online tourny too. Legit player here. HotS fit his style well too. He wasn't some "every game 2-3 base all in" player.
This is 17 of the invites on the NA list, you can see how they finished in WCS last year. This doesn't include either the National events or the World Championship event, both of which would add weight to the decision.
The two people that don't seem to fit in are Minigun & Snute
As for the players that missed out, that's a harder question for me to work. IE. Ostojiy gave up his seed, Hawk retired, daisuki got caught cheating.
The korean invites i feel are fairly self explanatory, even if you don't agree with them being involved in the NA portion of WCS.
My opinion: I think the invites are mostly fair, without knowing why some people that placed higher aren't invited. Seems pretty fair overall *shrug*
On April 11 2013 10:28 Waxangel wrote: wait so do we give a fuck that tournaments are inviting 75%+ of their players without qualifiers now, or is that soooo last year?
Man caring about invites was always just an excuse to hate on the nasl because of incontrol.
I've been doing some research on the announced participants of WCS NA Premier as I plan to do in depth coverage of the WCS NA scene. For those of you who are curious or maybe didn't recognize some of the names that were listed (I know failed to recognize a few), I have compiled a quick list detailing each participant's history in WCS, such as it is.
KiLLeR: 1st Chile Nationals; 1st South American Finals; Top 8 Global Finals
Scarlett: 1st Canada Nationals; 1st North American Finals; Top 16 Global Finals
IdrA: 4th US Nationals; 3rd North American Finals; Top 16 Global Finals
Suppy: Top 16 US Nationals; 10th North American Finals; Top 8 Global Finals
Fenix: 1st Peru Nationals; 2nd South American Finals; Invited to Global Finals
ViBE: 1st US Nationals; 2nd North American Finals; Invited to Global Finals
HuK: 10th Canada Nationals; 9th North American Finals; Invited to Global Finals
Illusion: Top 8 US Nationals; Top 8 North American Finals; Top 16 Global Finals
Major: 1st Mexico Nationals; 4th North American Finals; Invited to Global Finals
State: Top 16 US Nationals; Top 6 North American Finals; Invited to Global Finals
Goswser: Top 16 US Nationals; Top 16 North American Finals
Hellokitty: Top 8 US Nationals; Top 24 North American Finals
Minigun: Invited to US Nationals.
Theognis: Top 16 US Nationals; Top 24 North American Finals
Capoch: 1st Argentina Nationals; Top 6 South American Finals
Maker: 2nd Mexico Nationals; Top 24 North American Finals
Ryung: Did not participate.
HerO: Top 8 Korean Nationals; 3rd Asian Finals; Top 8 Global Finals
Violet: Did not participate.
Polt: Top 12 Korean Nationals
mOOnGLaDe: 2nd Australian Nationals; 1st Oceania Finals; Invited to Global Finals
Sen: 1st Taiwan Nationals; Top 12 Asia Finals; 4th Global Finals
NesTea: Did not qualify.
Snute: 4th Norway Nationals
Thats pretty cool, So maybe it is becasue demuslim didn't do aswell in WCS? And so the koreans were invited over him since they have more accomplishments outside of wcs? :S He made it to WCS EU finals didn't he?
2nd place UK WCS and top 16 EU WCS are pretty solid WCS results.
Im just hoping demuslim doesn't get screwed and have to qualify. Though with the amount of backlash I think theyd be best just to give him an invite to make everyone happy and have 7 qualifier spots lol.
edit: The worst part is, It looks like maybe his WCS EU results aren't counting towards this becasue its NA, so If he had went to WCS EU he would be in, but since blizzard doesn't know its ass from a hole in the wall, nobody could communicate anything like that so EG and Demuslim could make the right decision. This is obvously all speculation...except for the blizzard part.
Its kind of funny that some people are invited based on tournements they where invited because of tournements they were invited.... This goes on for years now. And we all know, they would not make it throw a single qualifier. All to have some consistent names in the events. Wonder how long they can push them up.
HelloKitty's replay pack made him popular and therefore invite. He is good, but hopefully some of the other NA pros can make it through the qualifiers.
On April 11 2013 12:23 skeldark wrote: Its kind of funny that some people are invited based on tournements they where invited because of tournements they were invited.... This goes on for years now. And we all know, they would not make it throw a single qualifier. All to have some consistent names in the events. Wonder how long they can push them up.
This honestly can't be said enough. SC2(outside of Korea) has been the absolute worst "esport" that I've seen where popular players are protected to the degree they are. God forbid they actually have to qualify against people who aren't salaried and are playing part time. They might lose and be exposed as they frauds they are. Can't have that.
Korean scene has had the success it's had primarily because of the open nature of Code A qualifiers motivating players to at least try. Hell Bisu still hasn't been able to qualify yet. If this were taking place in NA he'd be getting invites to every tournament under the sun.
On April 11 2013 12:23 skeldark wrote: Its kind of funny that some people are invited based on tournements they where invited because of tournements they were invited.... This goes on for years now. And we all know, they would not make it throw a single qualifier. All to have some consistent names in the events. Wonder how long they can push them up.
This honestly can't be said enough. SC2(outside of Korea) has been the absolute worst "esport" that I've seen where popular players are protected to the degree they are. God forbid they actually have to qualify against people who aren't salaried and are playing part time. They might lose and be exposed as they frauds they are. Can't have that.
Korean scene has had the success it's had primarily because of the open nature of Code A qualifiers motivating players to at least try. Hell Bisu still hasn't been able to qualify yet. If this were taking place in NA he'd be getting invites to every tournament under the sun.
This will certainly change by the time next season comes around, though it might just be EG-TL-AX roflstomping the qualifiers.
I just don't understand why Koreans were invited to NA/EU at all, they are neither they are Korean, they should have to fight through qualifiers to play in a region they aren't even part of.
No demuslim, no white-ra are very odd, especially with some of the players announced. Not to say those players are bad...but especially demuslim who actually has real results in 2012? I don't see how he gets left off this list of invites in both NA and EU. Guess they had to make sure there was room for KR players in NA/EU har har >.>
On another note that makes some sense, no transparency to how people were selected leaves nothing but massive amounts of questions. All the impending why him and not him talk would of been quelled with that one simple move. Unless of course the selection process was not very statistic in nature which would explain why no transparency.
The worst thing that can possibly happen will be if it comes out that Demuslim would have been seeded into WCS EU, but lost out on a seed because he choose NA. I'm pretty sure if the information was made available to him of seeding based on region, he'd probably choose the region with the seed. That would be severe incompetence on Blizzard's behalf in not making information available and would cost Demuslim at least a 32nd place payout from a WCS regional.
On April 11 2013 08:13 Glurkenspurk wrote: Hellokitty over kane?
Yeah i really feel that kane deserved it.
Please stop saying Hellokitty > other notable players. Hellokitty does have results even if you don't know about them. It bothers me that players like Kane, Demuslim etc. aren't up there but you should be asking why they allowed so many Koreans (Ones that DO NOT live here and have no intention of living here) to be invited when there are so many foreigners that want this and now they have to go through a stacked qualifier. I confidently believe they'll make it through the qualifiers regardless, but it's disappointing nonetheless.
Happy to see it wasn't as bad as I tought its gonna be. I can understand the people that only want to watch the highest of competition, but dunno I guess Im dumb or something for wanting to see NA / EU level of play more.
Now I just have to crossmahfingers and hope demuslim does the impossible and destroys "few" (;p) Koreans in the qualifier .
On April 11 2013 14:06 stfouri wrote: Happy to see it wasn't as bad as I tought its gonna be. I can understand the people that only want to watch the highest of competition, but dunno I guess Im dumb or something for wanting to see NA / EU level of play more.
Now I just have to crossmahfingers and hope demuslim does the impossible and destroys "few" (;p) Koreans in the qualifier .
Saw him twice against polt today. Looked on par with polt (he even macrod better), just the engagements that went polts way. still took a couple of games of polt, thats pretty good. Polt said he should play proleague. He will do fine and advance.
On April 11 2013 12:23 skeldark wrote: Its kind of funny that some people are invited based on tournements they where invited because of tournements they were invited.... This goes on for years now. And we all know, they would not make it throw a single qualifier. All to have some consistent names in the events. Wonder how long they can push them up.
This honestly can't be said enough. SC2(outside of Korea) has been the absolute worst "esport" that I've seen where popular players are protected to the degree they are. God forbid they actually have to qualify against people who aren't salaried and are playing part time. They might lose and be exposed as they frauds they are. Can't have that.
Korean scene has had the success it's had primarily because of the open nature of Code A qualifiers motivating players to at least try. Hell Bisu still hasn't been able to qualify yet. If this were taking place in NA he'd be getting invites to every tournament under the sun.
You are delusional. First of all, they had to start somewhere. Second of all, if popularity would be of question, no doubt they would invite Demuslim. Or Incontrol. Heck, even Machine is more popular then Maker or whoever. Catz... Or White-Ra to EU.
Second part is bullshit again, they had success because they had 10 years of BW experience. Also, there is gonna be Code A for NA and EU starting this very season. Challenger league = Code A.
As for the guy you are replying to - seeding seems to be based on 2012 WCS which was completely open, so he also talks out of his ass.
So now that I get that most of the seeding for this was from WCS.. Why are they using year old pre expansion results? Even ladder would make more sense now.
On April 11 2013 12:23 skeldark wrote: Its kind of funny that some people are invited based on tournements they where invited because of tournements they were invited.... This goes on for years now. And we all know, they would not make it throw a single qualifier. All to have some consistent names in the events. Wonder how long they can push them up.
This honestly can't be said enough. SC2(outside of Korea) has been the absolute worst "esport" that I've seen where popular players are protected to the degree they are. God forbid they actually have to qualify against people who aren't salaried and are playing part time. They might lose and be exposed as they frauds they are. Can't have that.
Korean scene has had the success it's had primarily because of the open nature of Code A qualifiers motivating players to at least try. Hell Bisu still hasn't been able to qualify yet. If this were taking place in NA he'd be getting invites to every tournament under the sun.
Well the good news is...with this GSL style format, these players will drop down if they aren`t good enough. Sure it will be very questionable to start off because of the invites, but I think it will be better later on.
After watching Demuslim play Polt, there's no question he is one of the best foreigners right now. He would be an actual threat to get into the top eight of WCS NA if he was in the tournament. Was very impressive.
On April 11 2013 14:58 Fionn wrote: After watching Demuslim play Polt, there's no question he is one of the best foreigners right now. He would be an actual threat to get into the top eight of WCS NA if he was in the tournament. Was very impressive.
lol. I dont know why this post made me laugh so much.
But yea, I wonder if anyone from Blizzard will comment about why they omitted certain people, they sorta released the ways in which ppl were picked but it's still puzzling :S.
Thats pretty fucking meh.. I mean, I have no problems with allowing playing Koreans in other regions qualifiers, but they should focus the invites on local players to support foreign scene.
On April 11 2013 14:58 Fionn wrote: After watching Demuslim play Polt, there's no question he is one of the best foreigners right now. He would be an actual threat to get into the top eight of WCS NA if he was in the tournament. Was very impressive.
lol. I dont know why this post made me laugh so much.
But yea, I wonder if anyone from Blizzard will comment about why they omitted certain people, they sorta released the ways in which ppl were picked but it's still puzzling :S.
Agreed. Polt was better at mostly engagements and desicsionmaking, but not everyone is a "polt"!
On April 11 2013 14:58 Fionn wrote: After watching Demuslim play Polt, there's no question he is one of the best foreigners right now. He would be an actual threat to get into the top eight of WCS NA if he was in the tournament. Was very impressive.
lol. I dont know why this post made me laugh so much.
But yea, I wonder if anyone from Blizzard will comment about why they omitted certain people, they sorta released the ways in which ppl were picked but it's still puzzling :S.
Agreed. Polt was better at mostly engagements and desicsionmaking, but not everyone is a "polt"!
He's 83-8 in NA, and Demuslim probably has 3 of those wins.
On April 11 2013 14:58 Fionn wrote: After watching Demuslim play Polt, there's no question he is one of the best foreigners right now. He would be an actual threat to get into the top eight of WCS NA if he was in the tournament. Was very impressive.
lol. I dont know why this post made me laugh so much.
But yea, I wonder if anyone from Blizzard will comment about why they omitted certain people, they sorta released the ways in which ppl were picked but it's still puzzling :S.
Agreed. Polt was better at mostly engagements and desicsionmaking, but not everyone is a "polt"!
He's 83-8 in NA, and Demuslim probably has 3 of those wins.
I know, demu looking topnotch and getting better, hots fits his style. Funny moment when he discovered that gold base of polt in one of the games.
In my opinion... it's a total joke that so many people their got invites, and DeMuslim got left out. He's stuck to have to battle through the Korean qualifiers now, when he is for certain better than the majority of the players on the NA list. Really good job Blizzard!
On April 11 2013 15:27 grs wrote: As much as I would like Demuslim on that list, he does not have a huge success on anything lately according to TLPD.
Yeah that's totally a reason not to invite him, regardless if he's currently one of the top foreigners. Let's base all of the invites off of past results and not current skill. Wait, I have an idea. Incontrol did really good in that one tournament in 2010, right? Why isn't he on the list with past results?
On April 11 2013 15:27 grs wrote: As much as I would like Demuslim on that list, he does not have a huge success on anything lately according to TLPD.
Yeah that's totally a reason not to invite him, regardless if he's currently one of the top foreigners. Let's base all of the invites off of past results and not current skill. Wait, I have an idea. Incontrol did really good in that one tournament in 2010, right? Why isn't he on the list with past results?
What on earth does Incontrol have to do with this? Why is there a need to always throw some mud on him?
On April 11 2013 15:27 grs wrote: As much as I would like Demuslim on that list, he does not have a huge success on anything lately according to TLPD.
Yeah that's totally a reason not to invite him, regardless if he's currently one of the top foreigners. Let's base all of the invites off of past results and not current skill. Wait, I have an idea. Incontrol did really good in that one tournament in 2010, right? Why isn't he on the list with past results?
What on earth does Incontrol have to do with this? Why is there a need to always throw some mud on him?
Who says I'm throwing mud at Incontrol? He's one of my favorite fucking personalities. I'm making a comparison here, and there's nothing insulting about my post.
On April 11 2013 08:14 ThE_OsToJiY wrote: So I guess 2nd in WCS Canada, 7th in WCS NA and qualifying for World Finals isn't good enough these days : (
Hot damn, once again, why do they not explain who and when was selected.... Ostojiy deserved this really it seems, but we don't know the selection criteria
On April 11 2013 14:58 Fionn wrote: After watching Demuslim play Polt, there's no question he is one of the best foreigners right now. He would be an actual threat to get into the top eight of WCS NA if he was in the tournament. Was very impressive.
lol. I dont know why this post made me laugh so much.
But yea, I wonder if anyone from Blizzard will comment about why they omitted certain people, they sorta released the ways in which ppl were picked but it's still puzzling :S.
Agreed. Polt was better at mostly engagements and desicsionmaking, but not everyone is a "polt"!
He's 83-8 in NA, and Demuslim probably has 3 of those wins.
4 of Polt's 5 TvT losses on ladder are to Dumuslim.
On April 11 2013 15:04 Geneq wrote: Thats pretty fucking meh.. I mean, I have no problems with allowing playing Koreans in other regions qualifiers, but they should focus the invites on local players to support foreign scene.
They did. The vast majority of invites went to local players.
On April 11 2013 16:13 MateShade wrote: LOL at hello kitty invite.. No offense at all to him personally but seriously...???
Same was said about goswer, then at ironsquid he trashed leenock and went 2-3 against life. If he would have won that match... Hellokitty isnt a nice kitty when she doesnt get her wishkas on time, u be surprised what kittins can do
I don't get how you can say Demuslim hasn't had very good recent results. The scene has been fairly inactive from around November 2012 through March 2013, aside from GSL. He finished 2nd in the UK WCS just back in July 12, finished 2nd in the SEE in august. Then frankly he didn't have a great outing at the MLG championship in November but that's about the only tournament he didn't do well in...also he was seeded into the open bracket of that one which is always a bear to crawl out of.
On April 11 2013 16:13 MateShade wrote: LOL at hello kitty invite.. No offense at all to him personally but seriously...???
Maybe you should look up his accomplishments or look back to his post in this thread before judging only based on the fact that you personally don't know who he is.
On April 11 2013 16:20 Nerski wrote: I don't get how you can say Demuslim hasn't had very good recent results. The scene has been fairly inactive from around November 2012 through March 2013, aside from GSL. He finished 2nd in the UK WCS just back in July 12, finished 2nd in the SEE in august. Then frankly he didn't have a great outing at the MLG championship in November but that's about the only tournament he didn't do well in...also he was seeded into the open bracket of that one which is always a bear to crawl out of.
Can't forget NASL Season 4 Grand Finals, barely losing to Violet 2-3.
On April 11 2013 16:04 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: I readed eu list again and I realised that they invited most known players...nothing to do with skill...
Just out of curiosity, what change(s) would you do ? I find the eu list rather legit, at least when compared with the american one.
Yeah as a whole, the EU list seems really good to me. Europe is rather deep compared to NA so i'm sure some deserving players have missed out, but overall it's solid.
On April 11 2013 08:22 holy_war wrote: Oh my, the NA has some heavy hitters in Capoch and hellokitty
Also, no DeMusliM?
For all we know he turned it down. These are confirmed participates. They may have invited some people who said no.
He said on stream he didn't get invited
Today was quite chaotic and filled with controversies, but this is by far the most ridiculous thing yet. It must be a mistake...
:[ this is disgusting, if there is a non-american who deserves to play wcs-na it's definitely demuslim :[
I would argue this: they said invites were based on previous tournament performance, of whic Demuslim hasn't attended a whole lot. Then again we have people like Capoch on that list.. so I wouldn't think it's a good argument.
Indeed, this argument does not hold water. 1st NA gm player, resident in the US for a while, overall a great chap with a lot of fans and playing for a famous team. Can't understand.
He did nothing in 2012 and most of 2011 tournament wise. although I guess top NA GM should count for a bit. All the other points don't make you auto invite material unfortunately.
edit: guess there are others in the list with no tourney activity for 2 years? Haven't actually checked.
edit 2: My bad, just realised he got 2nd in WCS UK and some random EU tourney. Would have to see how he compared to the other lesser invites.
On April 11 2013 18:02 Jknighty wrote: No Demuslim because he's British in America?
only 8 invites from non north/south Americans so I guess they ranked him behind (T)Ryung (P)HerO (P)Violet (T)Polt (Z)mOOnGLaDe (Z)Sen (Z)NesTea (Z)Snute
On April 11 2013 16:04 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: I readed eu list again and I realised that they invited most known players...nothing to do with skill...
Fully agree with that comment.
It's tricky to invite players based on skill when you just have achievements from WoL. Who would you replace though?
XlorD, Heromarine, and Happy have all been doing well in HotS, as have players like MorroW, Dayshi, Feast etc. but that list is so stacked its hard to remove someone. Perhaps Dimaga, since he hasn't been playing as much I think. The one who should definitely be there is LoWeLy.
Moonglade and Sen were guaranteed invites because of the region thing so they've only really plumped for Snute over him. With the number of Koreans not being seeded but choosing NA these qualifiers for the final 8 spots are going to be brutal.
On April 11 2013 16:04 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: I readed eu list again and I realised that they invited most known players...nothing to do with skill...
Fully agree with that comment.
It's tricky to invite players based on skill when you just have achievements from WoL. Who would you replace though?
XlorD, Heromarine, and Happy have all been doing well in HotS, as have players like MorroW, Dayshi, Feast etc. but that list is so stacked its hard to remove someone. Perhaps Dimaga, since he hasn't been playing as much I think. The one who should definitely be there is LoWeLy.
Well, there are a lot of invited players who have less success than those three since the launch of HotS, but those players all did some sort of huge splash in the last year in some WoL tournament. In the end, it depends on how you weight HotS performance and WoL performance in your decision.
Is this a joke blizzard. LoWeLy got top 6 in the European championship not enough sorry the zerg with a 20% win ratio the last 6 months of WOL is going to take you place.
And Feast?? His performance at IEM outshines most of the people in that list.
Why does DeMuslim never get noticed in any of these ;_; F M L Guy is arguably the best player in NA at the moment (who isn't Korean anyway) and isn't on the NA list, and that is where he will be trying for i would think. FML
On April 11 2013 16:04 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: I readed eu list again and I realised that they invited most known players...nothing to do with skill...
Fully agree with that comment.
It's tricky to invite players based on skill when you just have achievements from WoL. Who would you replace though?
XlorD, Heromarine, and Happy have all been doing well in HotS, as have players like MorroW, Dayshi, Feast etc. but that list is so stacked its hard to remove someone. Perhaps Dimaga, since he hasn't been playing as much I think. The one who should definitely be there is LoWeLy.
Well, there are a lot of invited players who have less success than those three since the launch of HotS, but those players all did some sort of huge splash in the last year in some WoL tournament. In the end, it depends on how you weight HotS performance and WoL performance in your decision.
Morrow? Splash? Are we talking now about 2010? Then might add TLO. Oooh wait ...
I can see why DeMusliM wasn't invited, although he's one of my favourite players. If they were really set on 16 "Americans" and 8 "non Americans" then I'm not sure he should be in the list of non Americans based on results.
On the other hand, I tend to think that if you live in a region you should be counted as coming from that region, in the vein of SeleCt. DeMusliM and Polt both live in the US, and have done for some time, I believe?
On April 11 2013 16:04 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: I readed eu list again and I realised that they invited most known players...nothing to do with skill...
Fully agree with that comment.
It's tricky to invite players based on skill when you just have achievements from WoL. Who would you replace though?
XlorD, Heromarine, and Happy have all been doing well in HotS, as have players like MorroW, Dayshi, Feast etc. but that list is so stacked its hard to remove someone. Perhaps Dimaga, since he hasn't been playing as much I think. The one who should definitely be there is LoWeLy.
Simple. Solution is simple. Just scrap this unfair unclear invites and go with qualification for all 32 slots determined by true and actual skill level. To avoid abuse region lock with few resident-based exceptions. Here you go, WCS worth of it's name.
On April 11 2013 16:04 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: I readed eu list again and I realised that they invited most known players...nothing to do with skill...
Fully agree with that comment.
It's tricky to invite players based on skill when you just have achievements from WoL. Who would you replace though?
XlorD, Heromarine, and Happy have all been doing well in HotS, as have players like MorroW, Dayshi, Feast etc. but that list is so stacked its hard to remove someone. Perhaps Dimaga, since he hasn't been playing as much I think. The one who should definitely be there is LoWeLy.
Simple. Solution is simple. Just scrap this unfair unclear invites and go with qualification for all 32 slots determined by true and actual skill level. To avoid abuse region lock with few resident-based exceptions. Here you go, WCS worth of it's name.
The "problem" with qualifiers is that koreans would take all the spots and forums/twitter would be a full "they took our job!" shitfest.
A few invites in EU might be different, though all invited players can make good case for themselves, but really this is the advantage of the seasonal system. Players proving to be better will end up where they deserve, though it might take a season or two. Koreans on foreign teams are screwing over the US system, but is it really necessary to rag on WCS EU? Doesn't it pretty much look amazingly fantastic?
On April 11 2013 18:19 Benjamin99 wrote: Ret, TLO over Feast, LoWeLy, Morrow, Happy?
Is this a joke blizzard. LoWeLy got top 6 in the European championship not enough sorry the zerg with a 20% win ratio the last 6 months of WOL is going to take you place.
And Feast?? His performance at IEM outshines most of the people in that list.
Its a joke
TLO has been one of the best players in Europe since HotS though he's only had the ESET Masters run to prove it - LoWeLy is definitely more qualified, and Ret's recent IEM World Championship run was way more impressive than Feast's, having defeated MC, First and Sting in HotS, rather than almost a year ago in a different game. I like Feast, but I don't think he has done enough to warrant an invite.
On April 11 2013 16:04 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: I readed eu list again and I realised that they invited most known players...nothing to do with skill...
Fully agree with that comment.
It's tricky to invite players based on skill when you just have achievements from WoL. Who would you replace though?
XlorD, Heromarine, and Happy have all been doing well in HotS, as have players like MorroW, Dayshi, Feast etc. but that list is so stacked its hard to remove someone. Perhaps Dimaga, since he hasn't been playing as much I think. The one who should definitely be there is LoWeLy.
Simple. Solution is simple. Just scrap this unfair unclear invites and go with qualification for all 32 slots determined by true and actual skill level. To avoid abuse region lock with few resident-based exceptions. Here you go, WCS worth of it's name.
The "problem" with qualifiers is that koreans would take all the spots and forums/twitter would be a full "they took our job!" shitfest.
Thats exactly why i suggest region lock in previous message. No Koreans in EU/NA except for the ones who live there for some time.
On April 11 2013 16:04 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: I readed eu list again and I realised that they invited most known players...nothing to do with skill...
Fully agree with that comment.
It's tricky to invite players based on skill when you just have achievements from WoL. Who would you replace though?
XlorD, Heromarine, and Happy have all been doing well in HotS, as have players like MorroW, Dayshi, Feast etc. but that list is so stacked its hard to remove someone. Perhaps Dimaga, since he hasn't been playing as much I think. The one who should definitely be there is LoWeLy.
Simple. Solution is simple. Just scrap this unfair unclear invites and go with qualification for all 32 slots determined by true and actual skill level. To avoid abuse region lock with few resident-based exceptions. Here you go, WCS worth of it's name.
The "problem" with qualifiers is that koreans would take all the spots and forums/twitter would be a full "they took our job!" shitfest.
Thats exactly why i suggest region lock in previous message. No Koreans in EU/NA except for the ones who live there for some time.
To my mind WCS Europe is better of with a few Koreans flying in. It will be a more exciting tournament for it.
On April 11 2013 18:19 Benjamin99 wrote: Ret, TLO over Feast, LoWeLy, Morrow, Happy?
Is this a joke blizzard. LoWeLy got top 6 in the European championship not enough sorry the zerg with a 20% win ratio the last 6 months of WOL is going to take you place.
And Feast?? His performance at IEM outshines most of the people in that list.
Its a joke
Feast wasn't even qualified for the Global IEM finals, he had a grand total of 17,5 points last IEM season putting him at rank 51.
Ret was together with Mana one of the 2 foreigners in top8 at IEM Global Finals. TLO was top 8 in katowice and last HSC. He also was top 12 at the last Dreamhack finals (same as Feast). Neither Lowely nor Happy did well at IEM or Dreamhack either.
Feast is very strong right now in hots, I give you that but he didn't show that in tournaments yet.
part of this is so unfair to the code S players. They went to a lot of trouble qualifying for code S, some even severely delaying their HotS practice by being forced to play up&down just before HotS launched. And now what? Code B players get to play in the premier league of Europe/NA without any trouble. It's easier and it doesn't matter at all how you did the last month or two, just how big your name is.
On the other hand HotS sort of equalizes the field a bit I guess so it isn't too bad but it still feels damn unfair.
On April 11 2013 19:11 derpface wrote: I would say scrap that invite to Nestea and give Demuslim that spot instead, he can do alot more with that spot than what old Nestea can.
On April 11 2013 19:11 derpface wrote: I would say scrap that invite to Nestea and give Demuslim that spot instead, he can do alot more with that spot than what old Nestea can.
Not bad invites, though it seems they left out quite many good players and picked some inferior options. Why aren't Ostojiy and DeMuslim in the list? Looks like Blizzard might've rushed it and forgot some players...
On April 11 2013 19:35 Grovbolle wrote: I feel like state, Capoch, Hellokitty and Maker could have been replaced. For instance with Demuslim, Ostojiy or someone like those.
The EU list is pretty good, I feel like maybe fraer and Lowely should have had an invite, but you can always find those small adjustments.
On April 11 2013 18:29 Pandemona wrote: Why does DeMuslim never get noticed in any of these ;_; F M L Guy is arguably the best player in NA at the moment (who isn't Korean anyway) and isn't on the NA list, and that is where he will be trying for i would think. FML
I don't understand why Demuslim isn't invited either, but I don't think his problem is not getting noticed.
Seriously, if you think that Demuslim or whoever else is so good but wasn't invited... then you should have confidence and he will just qualify. There are still 8 players who will join the first list, so surely if he is that good enough, it will be easy for him, right?
On April 11 2013 19:40 Yhamm wrote: Seriously, if you think that Demuslim or whoever else is so good but wasn't invited... then you should have confidence and he will just qualify. There are still 8 players who will join the first list, so surely if he is that good enough, it will be easy for him, right?
Wrong. There are still a lot of top koreans left that will try to qualify for these spots. Its highly unlikely that any non-Korean will get one of those NA qualifier spots.
Although I kind of understand why Demuslim was not invited. He is not American, thus he probably had to compete against Koreans to get an invite spot. So it was not Capoch or whatever who was invited over him, but people like Polt.
On April 11 2013 19:11 derpface wrote: I would say scrap that invite to Nestea and give Demuslim that spot instead, he can do alot more with that spot than what old Nestea can.
Agree. Nestea is just money grabbing now. Demuslim defiantly deserve the spot
Well, qualifications gonna be realy hard. Just think how much players are missing? (EU) Fraer, Elfi, Feast, Naama, Happy, LiveZerg, Protosser, Fuzer, NightEnd, Bling, Bischu, Welmu, Tod, Pomi, DieStar, LoWely, Strelok, Bratok etc... They should have given only 12 invites, 24 IS WAY TOO MUCH. How you can choose who is better than someone else?
On April 11 2013 19:11 derpface wrote: I would say scrap that invite to Nestea and give Demuslim that spot instead, he can do alot more with that spot than what old Nestea can.
Agree. Nestea is just money grabbing now. Demuslim defiantly deserve the spot
Nestea can still compete, he took third in iron squid quite recently. don't write him off as non competitive.
Well, the key mistake is that they should have defined a criterion for invites and made it publicly known. That is, which tournament results are taken into consideration and how. Even if this is difficult to define and they would have gotten a lot of shit about it anyway ("wow, why is X worth more than Y", "wow, why isn't tournament Z on the list"), it would have been a better way to do things, IMO.
There's also obviously a problem with opportunity. Some of these players probably participated in very few tournaments because they're on a financially weaker team or not full-time etc. However, this is actually the reason you'd let them have to qualify because they haven't shown they "deserve" an invite. The problem is unfortunately that the qualifier will probably be extremely difficult, so very few NA players will get through it.
As for Demuslim, I think his NASL results alone qualify him for an invite above some of these players. Lowely also should have been invited based on results I think.
On April 11 2013 19:47 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: Well, qualifications gonna be realy hard. Just think how much players are missing? (EU) Fraer, Elfi, Feast, Naama, Happy, LiveZerg, Protosser, Fuzer, NightEnd, Bling, Bischu, Welmu, Tod, Pomi, DieStar, LoWely, Strelok, Bratok etc... They should have given only 12 invites, 24 IS WAY TOO MUCH. How you can choose who is better than someone else?
A lot of Fins there. Your compatriots got owned pretty hard by the invite thing I have to say.
On April 11 2013 19:40 Yhamm wrote: Seriously, if you think that Demuslim or whoever else is so good but wasn't invited... then you should have confidence and he will just qualify. There are still 8 players who will join the first list, so surely if he is that good enough, it will be easy for him, right?
Wrong. There are still a lot of top koreans left that will try to qualify for these spots. Its highly unlikely that any non-Korean will get one of those NA qualifier spots.
Especially if you consider that every failed Code A qualificant from today and yesterday is allowed to play (if I interpret the Blizzard Q&A correctly).
It is very obvious that blizzard and especially the guys who are responsible for these "invites" are a group of amateurs who don´t seem to follow the scene close enough.
The most ridiculous point is certainly the missing invite of (arguably) THE best Terran outside of Korea - DEMUSLIM
There can´t be any logical explanation for this fault. If they have been looking for the most popular guys he would be in and if they have been looking for the best performing guys he would be in as well.
On April 11 2013 19:47 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: Well, qualifications gonna be realy hard. Just think how much players are missing? (EU) Fraer, Elfi, Feast, Naama, Happy, LiveZerg, Protosser, Fuzer, NightEnd, Bling, Bischu, Welmu, Tod, Pomi, DieStar, LoWely, Strelok, Bratok etc... They should have given only 12 invites, 24 IS WAY TOO MUCH. How you can choose who is better than someone else?
..then there would have been 12 more Koreans going to EU/NA.
On April 11 2013 19:40 Yhamm wrote: Seriously, if you think that Demuslim or whoever else is so good but wasn't invited... then you should have confidence and he will just qualify. There are still 8 players who will join the first list, so surely if he is that good enough, it will be easy for him, right?
Wrong. There are still a lot of top koreans left that will try to qualify for these spots. Its highly unlikely that any non-Korean will get one of those NA qualifier spots.
Although I kind of understand why Demuslim was not invited. He is not American, thus he probably had to compete against Koreans to get an invite spot. So it was not Capoch or whatever who was invited over him, but people like Polt.
if you can't qualify you won't do well either. Ie you had no right to be there in the first place. I wouldn't be surprised if after two seasons the NA/EU premier leagues will be 75% korean showing how silly the entire idea is in the first place..
EU looks ok. Not perfect but nice enough. America on the other hand seems strange... but I have nearly 0 knowledge when it comes to South America.
I wish they'd get rid of any invite whatsoever and held everything offline, or at least have the invite reduce to a strict minimum based on previous WCS only.
On April 11 2013 19:40 Yhamm wrote: Seriously, if you think that Demuslim or whoever else is so good but wasn't invited... then you should have confidence and he will just qualify. There are still 8 players who will join the first list, so surely if he is that good enough, it will be easy for him, right?
Wrong. There are still a lot of top koreans left that will try to qualify for these spots. Its highly unlikely that any non-Korean will get one of those NA qualifier spots.
Although I kind of understand why Demuslim was not invited. He is not American, thus he probably had to compete against Koreans to get an invite spot. So it was not Capoch or whatever who was invited over him, but people like Polt.
if you can't qualify you won't do well either. Ie you had no right to be there in the first place. I wouldn't be surprised if after two seasons the NA/EU premier leagues will be 75% korean showing how silly the entire idea is in the first place..
You just said that any non-Korean has no right to be there. Thats not what Blizzard was going for though, and is inconsistent with the rest of the invites.
On April 11 2013 19:40 Yhamm wrote: Seriously, if you think that Demuslim or whoever else is so good but wasn't invited... then you should have confidence and he will just qualify. There are still 8 players who will join the first list, so surely if he is that good enough, it will be easy for him, right?
I have. The games against polt and sage convinced he is the european yoda a.t.m. Demu has nothing to fear, he will ace the qualifier easily.
Nestea deserves the invite more than some others because of squid. Let him ling/bling/muta once again.
I'm a bit disappointed Feast isn't invited in EU league...But its ok he'll qualify i guess. The rest looks ok although there can be some questionable choices.
some weird invites, would not invite a lot of those people to a tournament but its like gsl in the beginning, u need time to get rid of all the bad players and if the tournament is here to stay thats what is gonna happen, dont expect the bad players to remain
On April 11 2013 19:55 Ohjay wrote: It is very obvious that blizzard and especially the guys who are responsible for these "invites" are a group of amateurs who don´t seem to follow the scene close enough.
The most ridiculous point is certainly the missing invite of (arguably) THE best Terran outside of Korea - DEMUSLIM
There can´t be any logical explanation for this fault. If they have been looking for the most popular guys he would be in and if they have been looking for the best performing guys he would be in as well.
Such a shame!!!
Demuslim is just ladder hero. If he doesn't enter more tournaments he doesn't deserve to be invited to tournaments. No results, no invites...simples.
I'm not anti-demuslim and as a fellow Brit I do wish him well, but he is stuck in an EG mentality where all you need to do is stream and be GM in ladder and then you're entitled to xyz. Doesn't work like that, tournament result matter for seedings and his don't deserve seeding. He will get through the qualifer so he doesn't need a charity seed anyway tbh, but I do hope no invite encourages him to reconsider the ladder hero approach and actually enter more tournaments.
On April 11 2013 19:55 Ohjay wrote: It is very obvious that blizzard and especially the guys who are responsible for these "invites" are a group of amateurs who don´t seem to follow the scene close enough.
The most ridiculous point is certainly the missing invite of (arguably) THE best Terran outside of Korea - DEMUSLIM
There can´t be any logical explanation for this fault. If they have been looking for the most popular guys he would be in and if they have been looking for the best performing guys he would be in as well.
Such a shame!!!
Demuslim is just ladder hero. If he doesn't enter more tournaments he doesn't deserve to be invited to tournaments. No results, no invites...simples.
I'm not anti-demuslim and as a fellow Brit I do wish him well, but he is stuck in an EG mentality where all you need to do is stream and be GM in ladder and then you're entitled to xyz. Doesn't work like that, tournament result matter for seedings and his don't deserve seeding. He will get through the qualifer so he doesn't need a charity seed anyway tbh, but I do hope no invite encourages him to reconsider the ladder hero approach and actually enter more tournaments.
Demu did really well in NASL, and do you really think this Capoch, Hellokitty or Maker have better tournament results than Demu?
On April 11 2013 19:55 Ohjay wrote: It is very obvious that blizzard and especially the guys who are responsible for these "invites" are a group of amateurs who don´t seem to follow the scene close enough.
The most ridiculous point is certainly the missing invite of (arguably) THE best Terran outside of Korea - DEMUSLIM
There can´t be any logical explanation for this fault. If they have been looking for the most popular guys he would be in and if they have been looking for the best performing guys he would be in as well.
Such a shame!!!
Demuslim is just ladder hero. If he doesn't enter more tournaments he doesn't deserve to be invited to tournaments. No results, no invites...simples.
I'm not anti-demuslim and as a fellow Brit I do wish him well, but he is stuck in an EG mentality where all you need to do is stream and be GM in ladder and then you're entitled to xyz. Doesn't work like that, tournament result matter for seedings and his don't deserve seeding. He will get through the qualifer so he doesn't need a charity seed anyway tbh, but I do hope no invite encourages him to reconsider the ladder hero approach and actually enter more tournaments.
Demu did really well in NASL, and do you really think this Capoch, Hellokitty or Maker have better tournament results than Demu?
I don't think they have to prove themselves on the same level as a cross-region foreigner. Like others in the thread said, demu is competing with players like violet/polt for his invite. Not with players from the Americas. His NASL results are good, but that doesn't detract from the point that he is a ladder/streaming based pro rather than a tournament champ.
I dont think we can judge anything yet based on season 1, as this is a transitional scrappy season. 2nd I think every team and there sponsors will be delighted to have players of there team participating finally in a code S structure. No one can deny that.
Dont forget that esports thrives on fans. Fans want there favorites to compete against the best of the best. Lucifron against Life etcetc. This is what alot of fans want and therefore sponsors want u to participate in it. Koreans on NA and EU ladder makes this happen.
Blizzard should does just give us next seasons playbook with a descent selectionproces for the seeds (if they have it finished by now)? I truly believe that code s EU and code s NA is good for the teams, the players and the fans. The fans want life against lucifron and gosuuser against leenock etc. Not a copy of ESET UK Masters (no topplayers = less people = less viewers). We absolutely need the best of the best divided over the three regions, without regarding which the nationality the players have.
This shows how terrible the american server is if you have to invite no-names like Capoch, Maker or Hellokitty (WTF?). There should be like no invites at all and everyone should have to qualify. Its ridiculous to give really bad players like IdrA or HuK a spot they did not deserver. And why the FUCK is Snute an American Invite? He should play Europe like all the good Europeans.
If they really have to allow people from other regions in they should be required to qualify. As much as I think that inviting known players regardless of actual skill is bad, ditching players like qxc in favour of 6 Koreans is dumb (yes, I don’t mind beating a dead horse, Blizzard should notice how much people disagree with the format).
I was actually pretty happy with the NA list seeing playes like Major, Maker, Capoch, Sen, and Moonglade making the list showed that they cared about more than just the top US players. And people saying how this player or that player was passed over i guess they had no choice adding in the players from SEA to skip some guys.
I am a little confused that InSur from iS didn't get picked seeing as he got 3rd at the US Nationals and got 5/6th at the NA Nationals to qualify for the World championship placing 17-24th...
On April 11 2013 22:57 m0ck wrote: I'm guessing it's an age thing
what about life then?
Germany has pretty draconian laws regarding video-games and age-restrictions, hopefully it will be contained to that area.
It hasnt anything to do with "laws" regarding video-games or age-restrictions. It has more to do with working laws etc. and the fact that a tournament could easily go beyond 10 PM which isnt allowed for juveniles under the age of 16 to "work" that long.
On April 11 2013 22:57 m0ck wrote: I'm guessing it's an age thing
what about life then?
Germany has pretty draconian laws regarding video-games and age-restrictions, hopefully it will be contained to that area.
It hasnt anything to do with "laws" regarding video-games or age-restrictions. It has more to do with working laws etc. and the fact that a tournament could easily go beyond 10 PM which isnt allowed for juveniles under the age of 16 to "work" that long.
Question: what happens if a young Korean gamer attends the final in Germany?
On April 11 2013 22:57 m0ck wrote: I'm guessing it's an age thing
what about life then?
Germany has pretty draconian laws regarding video-games and age-restrictions, hopefully it will be contained to that area.
It hasnt anything to do with "laws" regarding video-games or age-restrictions. It has more to do with working laws etc. and the fact that a tournament could easily go beyond 10 PM which isnt allowed for juveniles under the age of 16 to "work" that long.
Question: what happens if a young Korean gamer attends the final in Germany?
On April 11 2013 22:57 m0ck wrote: I'm guessing it's an age thing
what about life then?
Germany has pretty draconian laws regarding video-games and age-restrictions, hopefully it will be contained to that area.
It hasnt anything to do with "laws" regarding video-games or age-restrictions. It has more to do with working laws etc. and the fact that a tournament could easily go beyond 10 PM which isnt allowed for juveniles under the age of 16 to "work" that long.
Question: what happens if a young Korean gamer attends the final in Germany?
You can get exceptions.
Wasn't Maru replaced with some else last Gamescom?
For all the relentless Demuslim fans: this is why he didn't get a seed. He's not from America and he's not in the top 8 of non Americans in WCS America.
Also Lowely missing from EU is a travesty. He has every possible qualification to get in. Feast probably should be in there but most of his recent success has come from tournaments that Blizzard probably didn't look at (ATC, etc.).
On April 11 2013 22:57 m0ck wrote: I'm guessing it's an age thing
what about life then?
Germany has pretty draconian laws regarding video-games and age-restrictions, hopefully it will be contained to that area.
It hasnt anything to do with "laws" regarding video-games or age-restrictions. It has more to do with working laws etc. and the fact that a tournament could easily go beyond 10 PM which isnt allowed for juveniles under the age of 16 to "work" that long.
Question: what happens if a young Korean gamer attends the final in Germany?
You can get exceptions.
Wasn't Maru replaced with some else last Gamescom?
Yes, Maru won a qualifier for IEM Katowice(?), but since he was 15, he got replaced by the next player which was Dream.
On April 11 2013 22:57 m0ck wrote: I'm guessing it's an age thing
what about life then?
Germany has pretty draconian laws regarding video-games and age-restrictions, hopefully it will be contained to that area.
It hasnt anything to do with "laws" regarding video-games or age-restrictions. It has more to do with working laws etc. and the fact that a tournament could easily go beyond 10 PM which isnt allowed for juveniles under the age of 16 to "work" that long.
Fair enough, but isn't the absence of gaming cafes in Germany due to age restriction? I would call that pretty heavy handed..
Anyways, another thing that keeps boggling me - and I hope I am not the only one - is the prize pool distribution.
No, I am not talking about the top-heavy distribution, that has been talked to death and clearly I am not the only one having objections against that. It's that players who start in Code S, lose three series in the row and drop straight out of the league get more money (300€) than a player who starts in Code A and advances to Code S (0€). That just doesn't sound very fair to me.
In an environment where some players start ahead of others and players advance or fall back due to their performance, the only natural way for me to distribute the money would be according to when a player was eliminated. This way, if we keep the current prize pool distribution, not the players who start at Code A won't à priori go out empty-handed, but the players who are eliminated in the first round of Code A (some of them possibly from Code S).
On April 11 2013 23:38 smashlloyd20 wrote: For all the relentless Demuslim fans: this is why he didn't get a seed. He's not from America and he's not in the top 8 of non Americans in WCS America.
Also Lowely missing from EU is a travesty. He has every possible qualification to get in. Feast probably should be in there but most of his recent success has come from tournaments that Blizzard probably didn't look at (ATC, etc.).
Agreed on Lowely, but completely disagree on the point with DeMuslim. If you watched his stream recently, you would be able to see that he very, very clearly is in the top 8 in America. He's been almost even with Polt in TvT, destroying gowswer and stephano very consistently in TvZ and seeing that his micro is what he self-assesses to be his best aspect of his play, his TvP is obviously very good as this is heavily micro-based.
There is absolutely no justification for the majority of the players on that list being selected over DeMuslim.
Fortunately, I think he will be good enough to come through the 'Korean' qualifiers - but the fact that he has to in the first place is just a joke.
On April 11 2013 23:38 smashlloyd20 wrote: For all the relentless Demuslim fans: this is why he didn't get a seed. He's not from America and he's not in the top 8 of non Americans in WCS America.
Also Lowely missing from EU is a travesty. He has every possible qualification to get in. Feast probably should be in there but most of his recent success has come from tournaments that Blizzard probably didn't look at (ATC, etc.).
Agreed on Lowely, but completely disagree on the point with DeMuslim. If you watched his stream recently, you would be able to see that he very, very clearly is in the top 8 in America. He's been almost even with Polt in TvT, destroying gowswer and stephano very consistently in TvZ and seeing that his micro is what he self-assesses to be his best aspect of his play, his TvP is obviously very good as this is heavily micro-based.
There is absolutely no justification for the majority of the players on that list being selected over DeMuslim.
Fortunately, I think he will be good enough to come through the 'Korean' qualifiers - but the fact that he has to in the first place is just a joke.
I think it is correct not to do the invites by "watching streams".
On April 11 2013 23:38 smashlloyd20 wrote: For all the relentless Demuslim fans: this is why he didn't get a seed. He's not from America and he's not in the top 8 of non Americans in WCS America.
Also Lowely missing from EU is a travesty. He has every possible qualification to get in. Feast probably should be in there but most of his recent success has come from tournaments that Blizzard probably didn't look at (ATC, etc.).
Agreed on Lowely, but completely disagree on the point with DeMuslim. If you watched his stream recently, you would be able to see that he very, very clearly is in the top 8 in America. He's been almost even with Polt in TvT, destroying gowswer and stephano very consistently in TvZ and seeing that his micro is what he self-assesses to be his best aspect of his play, his TvP is obviously very good as this is heavily micro-based.
There is absolutely no justification for the majority of the players on that list being selected over DeMuslim.
Fortunately, I think he will be good enough to come through the 'Korean' qualifiers - but the fact that he has to in the first place is just a joke.
I think it is correct not to do the invites by "watching streams".
Instead of not watching streams then, how about you also look at the NA ladder leaderboard where he is the clear cut #1 player? .....
If hes so good then dont worry he will beat all those koreans no problem, because you know ladder does matter. The problem is not why X got invited instead of Y, its do they actually deserve it or should they have played qualifier ?
I needed a bit of a break because of my wrist and I could give up Code S for that. That's why I chose America.
What did you think of the invite list for America?
Even unknown players received seeds. So I'm planning on making Blizzard regret it with my games. I already hated Blizzard but now I hate them even more.
Why did you come to dislike Blizzard?
I think they don't care about the players as much as Riot Games.
On April 11 2013 23:38 smashlloyd20 wrote: For all the relentless Demuslim fans: this is why he didn't get a seed. He's not from America and he's not in the top 8 of non Americans in WCS America.
Also Lowely missing from EU is a travesty. He has every possible qualification to get in. Feast probably should be in there but most of his recent success has come from tournaments that Blizzard probably didn't look at (ATC, etc.).
Agreed on Lowely, but completely disagree on the point with DeMuslim. If you watched his stream recently, you would be able to see that he very, very clearly is in the top 8 in America. He's been almost even with Polt in TvT, destroying gowswer and stephano very consistently in TvZ and seeing that his micro is what he self-assesses to be his best aspect of his play, his TvP is obviously very good as this is heavily micro-based.
There is absolutely no justification for the majority of the players on that list being selected over DeMuslim.
Fortunately, I think he will be good enough to come through the 'Korean' qualifiers - but the fact that he has to in the first place is just a joke.
16 invites are probably based on results of WCS NA. The extra 8 are: Ryung,HerO,Violet,Polt,mOOnGLaDe,Sen,NesTea,Snute Which of these players has been beforming worse than DeMuslim in recent tourneys?
On April 11 2013 23:38 smashlloyd20 wrote: For all the relentless Demuslim fans: this is why he didn't get a seed. He's not from America and he's not in the top 8 of non Americans in WCS America.
Also Lowely missing from EU is a travesty. He has every possible qualification to get in. Feast probably should be in there but most of his recent success has come from tournaments that Blizzard probably didn't look at (ATC, etc.).
Agreed on Lowely, but completely disagree on the point with DeMuslim. If you watched his stream recently, you would be able to see that he very, very clearly is in the top 8 in America. He's been almost even with Polt in TvT, destroying gowswer and stephano very consistently in TvZ and seeing that his micro is what he self-assesses to be his best aspect of his play, his TvP is obviously very good as this is heavily micro-based.
There is absolutely no justification for the majority of the players on that list being selected over DeMuslim.
Fortunately, I think he will be good enough to come through the 'Korean' qualifiers - but the fact that he has to in the first place is just a joke.
16 invites are probably based on results of WCS NA. The extra 8 are: Ryung,HerO,Violet,Polt,mOOnGLaDe,Sen,NesTea,Snute Which of these players has been beforming worse than DeMuslim in recent tourneys?
The first 16 are definitely not based on WCS NA, otherwise Ostojiy(who got 7th at WCS NA) would have been invited. I see no reason why Demuslim is excluded from the 16 NA invites, he's different from the last 8 in that he already lives in America. And he is significantly better than some of the NA players who got invites.
Demuslim should definitely have gotten a seed over guys like IdrA, Suppy, and others like Hellokitty, Minigun, theognis Capoch, Maker.
poor demu... absolutely shunned by whomever decided the invite list :/ probably the second best player in NA right now and that's by an absolute clear margin! Getting the impression that whoever decided on the invites doesn't actually watch a lot of sc2 ><
On April 11 2013 23:38 smashlloyd20 wrote: For all the relentless Demuslim fans: this is why he didn't get a seed. He's not from America and he's not in the top 8 of non Americans in WCS America.
Also Lowely missing from EU is a travesty. He has every possible qualification to get in. Feast probably should be in there but most of his recent success has come from tournaments that Blizzard probably didn't look at (ATC, etc.).
Agreed on Lowely, but completely disagree on the point with DeMuslim. If you watched his stream recently, you would be able to see that he very, very clearly is in the top 8 in America. He's been almost even with Polt in TvT, destroying gowswer and stephano very consistently in TvZ and seeing that his micro is what he self-assesses to be his best aspect of his play, his TvP is obviously very good as this is heavily micro-based.
There is absolutely no justification for the majority of the players on that list being selected over DeMuslim.
Fortunately, I think he will be good enough to come through the 'Korean' qualifiers - but the fact that he has to in the first place is just a joke.
16 invites are probably based on results of WCS NA. The extra 8 are: Ryung,HerO,Violet,Polt,mOOnGLaDe,Sen,NesTea,Snute Which of these players has been beforming worse than DeMuslim in recent tourneys?
moonglade? Though I love moonglade and don't wanna say anything bad about him haha, he's been amazing on sotg.
I think the issue is that eg wasn't told how people were picked, and i they were demuslim woulda choose EU and gotten in i think.
Edit: And as for people saying hes not NA he should be in EU etc. He's lived in the US for a while now, and has stated numourous times he plans to live in the us at the eg lair.
On April 11 2013 23:38 smashlloyd20 wrote: For all the relentless Demuslim fans: this is why he didn't get a seed. He's not from America and he's not in the top 8 of non Americans in WCS America.
Also Lowely missing from EU is a travesty. He has every possible qualification to get in. Feast probably should be in there but most of his recent success has come from tournaments that Blizzard probably didn't look at (ATC, etc.).
Agreed on Lowely, but completely disagree on the point with DeMuslim. If you watched his stream recently, you would be able to see that he very, very clearly is in the top 8 in America. He's been almost even with Polt in TvT, destroying gowswer and stephano very consistently in TvZ and seeing that his micro is what he self-assesses to be his best aspect of his play, his TvP is obviously very good as this is heavily micro-based.
There is absolutely no justification for the majority of the players on that list being selected over DeMuslim.
Fortunately, I think he will be good enough to come through the 'Korean' qualifiers - but the fact that he has to in the first place is just a joke.
16 invites are probably based on results of WCS NA. The extra 8 are: Ryung,HerO,Violet,Polt,mOOnGLaDe,Sen,NesTea,Snute Which of these players has been beforming worse than DeMuslim in recent tourneys?
The first 16 are definitely not based on WCS NA, otherwise Ostojiy(who got 7th at WCS NA) would have been invited. I see no reason why Demuslim is excluded from the 16 NA invites, he's different from the last 8 in that he already lives in America. And he is significantly better than some of the NA players who got invites.
Demuslim should definitely have gotten a seed over guys like IdrA, Suppy, and others like Hellokitty, Minigun, theognis Capoch, Maker.
Quote from http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=407158 : "16 of the 24 invites are going to North Americans, the remaining 8 invitations are going to people who are not North American. That could be both Europeans and Koreans. The last 8 spots are coming from online qualifiers. That's your 32 for this season."
The system seems reasonable, and a nice middleground between all-qualifiers and 32 NA people. Most of NA list is equivalent of WCS results - maybe Ostojiy turned his invite down or they checked his HoTS ladder results ( he is not even in top200 masters in NA ladder currently ).
Anyway since DeMuslim is from EU you should focus on his results compared to the other 8 non-NA invites.
On April 11 2013 23:38 smashlloyd20 wrote: For all the relentless Demuslim fans: this is why he didn't get a seed. He's not from America and he's not in the top 8 of non Americans in WCS America.
Also Lowely missing from EU is a travesty. He has every possible qualification to get in. Feast probably should be in there but most of his recent success has come from tournaments that Blizzard probably didn't look at (ATC, etc.).
Agreed on Lowely, but completely disagree on the point with DeMuslim. If you watched his stream recently, you would be able to see that he very, very clearly is in the top 8 in America. He's been almost even with Polt in TvT, destroying gowswer and stephano very consistently in TvZ and seeing that his micro is what he self-assesses to be his best aspect of his play, his TvP is obviously very good as this is heavily micro-based.
There is absolutely no justification for the majority of the players on that list being selected over DeMuslim.
Fortunately, I think he will be good enough to come through the 'Korean' qualifiers - but the fact that he has to in the first place is just a joke.
16 invites are probably based on results of WCS NA. The extra 8 are: Ryung,HerO,Violet,Polt,mOOnGLaDe,Sen,NesTea,Snute Which of these players has been beforming worse than DeMuslim in recent tourneys?
moonglade? Though I love moonglade and don't wanna say anything bad about him haha, he's been amazing on sotg.
I think the issue is that eg wasn't told how people were picked, and i they were demuslim woulda choose EU and gotten in i think.
Edit: And as for people saying hes not NA he should be in EU etc. He's lived in the US for a while now, and has stated numourous times he plans to live in the us at the eg lair.
moonglade is picked because he is best SEA and so he gets an invite for sure ... easiest invite next to sen for usa 8 non us players, only question is gantzi i think over demuslim ...
On April 12 2013 00:20 Clefairy wrote: From TaeJa's interview lol:
Why did you choose America for your WCS region?
I needed a bit of a break because of my wrist and I could give up Code S for that. That's why I chose America.
What did you think of the invite list for America?
Even unknown players received seeds. So I'm planning on making Blizzard regret it with my games. I already hated Blizzard but now I hate them even more.
Why did you come to dislike Blizzard?
I think they don't care about the players as much as Riot Games.
On April 12 2013 01:11 Zygno wrote: To count Demuslim as a non NA-player is pretty dumb, because he's been living in the US for about one year or so
In that case they probably would have to count Polt and Violet NA players too... and perhaps JYP/Puma still have the same sort of visas Demuslim has or whatever paperwork the "NA-player" definiton has to be based upon.
On April 11 2013 23:38 smashlloyd20 wrote: For all the relentless Demuslim fans: this is why he didn't get a seed. He's not from America and he's not in the top 8 of non Americans in WCS America.
Also Lowely missing from EU is a travesty. He has every possible qualification to get in. Feast probably should be in there but most of his recent success has come from tournaments that Blizzard probably didn't look at (ATC, etc.).
Agreed on Lowely, but completely disagree on the point with DeMuslim. If you watched his stream recently, you would be able to see that he very, very clearly is in the top 8 in America. He's been almost even with Polt in TvT, destroying gowswer and stephano very consistently in TvZ and seeing that his micro is what he self-assesses to be his best aspect of his play, his TvP is obviously very good as this is heavily micro-based.
There is absolutely no justification for the majority of the players on that list being selected over DeMuslim.
Fortunately, I think he will be good enough to come through the 'Korean' qualifiers - but the fact that he has to in the first place is just a joke.
16 invites are probably based on results of WCS NA. The extra 8 are: Ryung,HerO,Violet,Polt,mOOnGLaDe,Sen,NesTea,Snute Which of these players has been beforming worse than DeMuslim in recent tourneys?
The first 16 are definitely not based on WCS NA, otherwise Ostojiy(who got 7th at WCS NA) would have been invited. I see no reason why Demuslim is excluded from the 16 NA invites, he's different from the last 8 in that he already lives in America. And he is significantly better than some of the NA players who got invites.
Demuslim should definitely have gotten a seed over guys like IdrA, Suppy, and others like Hellokitty, Minigun, theognis Capoch, Maker.
Quote from http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=407158 : "16 of the 24 invites are going to North Americans, the remaining 8 invitations are going to people who are not North American. That could be both Europeans and Koreans. The last 8 spots are coming from online qualifiers. That's your 32 for this season."
The system seems reasonable, and a nice middleground between all-qualifiers and 32 NA people. Most of NA list is equivalent of WCS results - maybe Ostojiy turned his invite down or they checked his HoTS ladder results ( he is not even in top200 masters in NA ladder currently ).
Anyway since DeMuslim is from EU you should focus on his results compared to the other 8 non-NA invites.
Except Demuslim isn't from EU, he's from NA? If he was from EU, he'd be living in Europe and going to European tournaments. I thought the whole point of WCS was to have a scene local to each continent.
As is discussed on every single thread about WCS, eventually we're going to have a GSL-style offline tournament for a full round of 32. When this happens, everyone will have to live in KR/NA/EU for their respective tournaments. If Demu entered the EU tournament, he would eventually have to leave that tournament and enter the challenger division in NA because his long term plans are to stay in the US.
It's really dumb to base these invites on citizenship instead of residency because the whole point of this system is to get a more robust NA-based scene. The nationalities of the players shouldn't matter, but their residence should. If you live in NA, play for an NA team, participate in NA tournaments, and practice on NA ladder, then you're a NA player. It's not that hard. (Note: for the purposes of this classification, I'd also call Polt an NA player)
On April 12 2013 01:11 Zygno wrote: To count Demuslim as a non NA-player is pretty dumb, because he's been living in the US for about one year or so
In that case they probably would have to count Polt and Violet NA players too... and perhaps JYP/Puma still have the same sort of visas Demuslim has or whatever paperwork the "NA-player" definiton has to be based upon.
Polt should count as an NA player for these purposes. All interviews with Blizzard staff have said that they want Koreans moving to NA and taking their team house structure with them. Based on this, shouldn't the tournaments encourage Koreans to move to NA?
On April 12 2013 00:20 Clefairy wrote: From TaeJa's interview lol:
Why did you choose America for your WCS region?
I needed a bit of a break because of my wrist and I could give up Code S for that. That's why I chose America.
What did you think of the invite list for America?
Even unknown players received seeds. So I'm planning on making Blizzard regret it with my games. I already hated Blizzard but now I hate them even more.
Why did you come to dislike Blizzard?
I think they don't care about the players as much as Riot Games.
On April 12 2013 01:11 Zygno wrote: To count Demuslim as a non NA-player is pretty dumb, because he's been living in the US for about one year or so
In that case they probably would have to count Polt and Violet NA players too... and perhaps JYP/Puma still have the same sort of visas Demuslim has or whatever paperwork the "NA-player" definiton has to be based upon.
Well, but he is actually really living there. Puma/JYP both live in Korea and were just a short amount of time in the US. Not sure about Violet and Polt. Also Demuslim has been playing purely one the NA-Server in the last few seasons and is constantly top 3, every season.
On April 12 2013 00:20 Clefairy wrote: From TaeJa's interview lol:
Why did you choose America for your WCS region?
I needed a bit of a break because of my wrist and I could give up Code S for that. That's why I chose America.
What did you think of the invite list for America?
Even unknown players received seeds. So I'm planning on making Blizzard regret it with my games. I already hated Blizzard but now I hate them even more.
Why did you come to dislike Blizzard?
I think they don't care about the players as much as Riot Games.
On April 10 2013 18:07 Fionn wrote: Players like HyuN, MC, and TaeJa* who are/were qualified for this season of Code S will be able to play the qualifiers for Season 1 of NA/EU, but will only be able to advance as far as the Challenger League. (ie. they will be able to secure qualification for the season 2 premier league of NA/EU, but won't be able to play in the season 1 premier league of NA/EU). [Players don't have to forfeit their Code S spots to do this.]
The now released player lists are for the Premier league.
On April 12 2013 01:11 Zygno wrote: To count Demuslim as a non NA-player is pretty dumb, because he's been living in the US for about one year or so
In that case they probably would have to count Polt and Violet NA players too... and perhaps JYP/Puma still have the same sort of visas Demuslim has or whatever paperwork the "NA-player" definiton has to be based upon.
Well, but he is actually really living there. Puma/JYP both live in Korea and were just a short amount of time in the US. Not sure about Violet and Polt. Also Demuslim has been playing purely one the NA-Server in the last few seasons and is constantly top 3, every season.
Yeah, Demuslim clearly got screwed over because he did not have all the information about how the invites were going to be chosen before he picked a region. It seems like everything is based on WCS 2012, MGL and GSL performance. I am not even sure if his standing in NASL was even factored into the decision.
This is to be expected in some way, but there are clearly players who have done less, had worse results and are less proven that were invited. There may have been no way for Demuslim to be invited in the current system, but we all would accept it better if we knew that before hand.
On April 12 2013 01:11 Zygno wrote: To count Demuslim as a non NA-player is pretty dumb, because he's been living in the US for about one year or so
In that case they probably would have to count Polt and Violet NA players too... and perhaps JYP/Puma still have the same sort of visas Demuslim has or whatever paperwork the "NA-player" definiton has to be based upon.
Well, but he is actually really living there. Puma/JYP both live in Korea and were just a short amount of time in the US. Not sure about Violet and Polt. Also Demuslim has been playing purely one the NA-Server in the last few seasons and is constantly top 3, every season.
Unless teams have GPS trackers logging their movement, there is no solid basis to claim who has been where for how long. And imagine the outcry when the NA ladder was a significant factor of inviting people.
Demuslim just got screwed by the system that blizzard deemed "least bad" ( all invitation based systems are bad in my book). In addition of complaining about it emotionally people should at least add a rational alternative.
Im sad that he didnt make it, but i cannot think of any other invitation system that would not create even more drama.
On April 12 2013 01:11 Zygno wrote: To count Demuslim as a non NA-player is pretty dumb, because he's been living in the US for about one year or so
In that case they probably would have to count Polt and Violet NA players too... and perhaps JYP/Puma still have the same sort of visas Demuslim has or whatever paperwork the "NA-player" definiton has to be based upon.
Well, but he is actually really living there. Puma/JYP both live in Korea and were just a short amount of time in the US. Not sure about Violet and Polt. Also Demuslim has been playing purely one the NA-Server in the last few seasons and is constantly top 3, every season.
Unless teams have GPS trackers logging their movement, there is no solid basis to claim who has been where for how long. And imagine the outcry when the NA ladder was a significant factor of inviting people.
Demuslim just got screwed by the system that blizzard deemed "least bad" ( all invitation based systems are bad in my book). In addition of complaining about it emotionally people should at least add a rational alternative.
Im sad that he didnt make it, but i cannot think of any other invitation system that would not create even more drama.
It's pretty easy to determine residencies. Just show a copy of a lease/utility bill, etc. That's how it's done for every local legal entity in the U.S. I'm sure Polt has a lease for an apartment, and I'm guessing EG has some documentation showing that Demuslim's residency is at the EG lair.
On April 12 2013 01:11 Zygno wrote: To count Demuslim as a non NA-player is pretty dumb, because he's been living in the US for about one year or so
In that case they probably would have to count Polt and Violet NA players too... and perhaps JYP/Puma still have the same sort of visas Demuslim has or whatever paperwork the "NA-player" definiton has to be based upon.
Well, but he is actually really living there. Puma/JYP both live in Korea and were just a short amount of time in the US. Not sure about Violet and Polt. Also Demuslim has been playing purely one the NA-Server in the last few seasons and is constantly top 3, every season.
Unless teams have GPS trackers logging their movement, there is no solid basis to claim who has been where for how long. And imagine the outcry when the NA ladder was a significant factor of inviting people.
Demuslim just got screwed by the system that blizzard deemed "least bad" ( all invitation based systems are bad in my book). In addition of complaining about it emotionally people should at least add a rational alternative.
Im sad that he didnt make it, but i cannot think of any other invitation system that would not create even more drama.
It's pretty easy to determine residencies. Just show a copy of a lease/utility bill, etc. That's how it's done for every local legal entity in the U.S. I'm sure Polt has a lease for an apartment, and I'm guessing EG has some documentation showing that Demuslim's residency is at the EG lair.
Or tax records, or his stream that is on several times a week. Or the work visa he paid lawyers to get to allow him to be employed by EG and stay in the US. That last one is really the silver bullet in this issue.
On April 12 2013 01:11 Zygno wrote: To count Demuslim as a non NA-player is pretty dumb, because he's been living in the US for about one year or so
In that case they probably would have to count Polt and Violet NA players too... and perhaps JYP/Puma still have the same sort of visas Demuslim has or whatever paperwork the "NA-player" definiton has to be based upon.
Well, but he is actually really living there. Puma/JYP both live in Korea and were just a short amount of time in the US. Not sure about Violet and Polt. Also Demuslim has been playing purely one the NA-Server in the last few seasons and is constantly top 3, every season.
Unless teams have GPS trackers logging their movement, there is no solid basis to claim who has been where for how long. And imagine the outcry when the NA ladder was a significant factor of inviting people.
Demuslim just got screwed by the system that blizzard deemed "least bad" ( all invitation based systems are bad in my book). In addition of complaining about it emotionally people should at least add a rational alternative.
Im sad that he didnt make it, but i cannot think of any other invitation system that would not create even more drama.
It's pretty easy to determine residencies. Just show a copy of a lease/utility bill, etc. That's how it's done for every local legal entity in the U.S. I'm sure Polt has a lease for an apartment, and I'm guessing EG has some documentation showing that Demuslim's residency is at the EG lair.
We dont know that for sure, there might be similar documentation for lot of people who visit US often for the weekend tournaments.
On April 12 2013 01:11 Zygno wrote: To count Demuslim as a non NA-player is pretty dumb, because he's been living in the US for about one year or so
In that case they probably would have to count Polt and Violet NA players too... and perhaps JYP/Puma still have the same sort of visas Demuslim has or whatever paperwork the "NA-player" definiton has to be based upon.
Well, but he is actually really living there. Puma/JYP both live in Korea and were just a short amount of time in the US. Not sure about Violet and Polt. Also Demuslim has been playing purely one the NA-Server in the last few seasons and is constantly top 3, every season.
Unless teams have GPS trackers logging their movement, there is no solid basis to claim who has been where for how long. And imagine the outcry when the NA ladder was a significant factor of inviting people.
Demuslim just got screwed by the system that blizzard deemed "least bad" ( all invitation based systems are bad in my book). In addition of complaining about it emotionally people should at least add a rational alternative.
Im sad that he didnt make it, but i cannot think of any other invitation system that would not create even more drama.
It's pretty easy to determine residencies. Just show a copy of a lease/utility bill, etc. That's how it's done for every local legal entity in the U.S. I'm sure Polt has a lease for an apartment, and I'm guessing EG has some documentation showing that Demuslim's residency is at the EG lair.
We dont know that for sure, there might be similar documentation for lot of people who visit US often for the weekend tournaments.
I think the government issued work visa pretty much does it. Or the tax records and the fact that he is on EG's pay role as an employee in the US. But all of this is over the top, because you can just ask the team owners and they will tell you where he lives. Unless they are willing to commit fraud just to get him into the NA league, which isn't really worth it IMO.
On April 12 2013 00:20 Clefairy wrote: From TaeJa's interview lol:
Why did you choose America for your WCS region?
I needed a bit of a break because of my wrist and I could give up Code S for that. That's why I chose America.
What did you think of the invite list for America?
Even unknown players received seeds. So I'm planning on making Blizzard regret it with my games. I already hated Blizzard but now I hate them even more.
Why did you come to dislike Blizzard?
I think they don't care about the players as much as Riot Games.
Can you link? I can't find this.
That made me laugh. Hard.
...? People are fucking confusing. Did you think he was kidding? He gave links above...
On April 12 2013 00:20 Clefairy wrote: From TaeJa's interview lol:
Why did you choose America for your WCS region?
I needed a bit of a break because of my wrist and I could give up Code S for that. That's why I chose America.
What did you think of the invite list for America?
Even unknown players received seeds. So I'm planning on making Blizzard regret it with my games. I already hated Blizzard but now I hate them even more.
Why did you come to dislike Blizzard?
I think they don't care about the players as much as Riot Games.
Gotta say, taeja's responses are hilarious: picking america because his wrists need a break, calling out unknown gm players on NA, planning to "get revenge" on a company he hates more than ever.
On April 12 2013 00:20 Clefairy wrote: From TaeJa's interview lol:
Why did you choose America for your WCS region?
I needed a bit of a break because of my wrist and I could give up Code S for that. That's why I chose America.
What did you think of the invite list for America?
Even unknown players received seeds. So I'm planning on making Blizzard regret it with my games. I already hated Blizzard but now I hate them even more.
Why did you come to dislike Blizzard?
I think they don't care about the players as much as Riot Games.
Gotta say, taeja's responses are hilarious: picking america because his wrists need a break, calling out unknown gm players on NA, planning to "get revenge" on a company he hates more than ever.
Taeja's main gripe about not being in premier league for WCS NA is unfounded. Taeja appears on WCS korea list for season 1. How could he also appear on WCS NA list for season 1 as well? That would mean he's on two lists at the same time and would be playing in 2 regions at the same time. If he advanced far in gsl then he would be playing both gsl and wcs NA at the same time. Of course this isn't allowed and people leaving code s after this season need to compete for spots in season 2 of other regions.
On April 12 2013 01:11 Zygno wrote: To count Demuslim as a non NA-player is pretty dumb, because he's been living in the US for about one year or so
In that case they probably would have to count Polt and Violet NA players too... and perhaps JYP/Puma still have the same sort of visas Demuslim has or whatever paperwork the "NA-player" definiton has to be based upon.
Well, but he is actually really living there. Puma/JYP both live in Korea and were just a short amount of time in the US. Not sure about Violet and Polt. Also Demuslim has been playing purely one the NA-Server in the last few seasons and is constantly top 3, every season.
Unless teams have GPS trackers logging their movement, there is no solid basis to claim who has been where for how long. And imagine the outcry when the NA ladder was a significant factor of inviting people.
Demuslim just got screwed by the system that blizzard deemed "least bad" ( all invitation based systems are bad in my book). In addition of complaining about it emotionally people should at least add a rational alternative.
Im sad that he didnt make it, but i cannot think of any other invitation system that would not create even more drama.
It's pretty easy to determine residencies. Just show a copy of a lease/utility bill, etc. That's how it's done for every local legal entity in the U.S. I'm sure Polt has a lease for an apartment, and I'm guessing EG has some documentation showing that Demuslim's residency is at the EG lair.
We dont know that for sure, there might be similar documentation for lot of people who visit US often for the weekend tournaments.
A signed lease or utility bill is the standard documentation for residency in every single county/parish in the United States. If a Korean has a utility bill or a signed lease while staying in Korea, then they are wasting a whole bunch of money.
On April 12 2013 01:11 Zygno wrote: To count Demuslim as a non NA-player is pretty dumb, because he's been living in the US for about one year or so
In that case they probably would have to count Polt and Violet NA players too... and perhaps JYP/Puma still have the same sort of visas Demuslim has or whatever paperwork the "NA-player" definiton has to be based upon.
Well, but he is actually really living there. Puma/JYP both live in Korea and were just a short amount of time in the US. Not sure about Violet and Polt. Also Demuslim has been playing purely one the NA-Server in the last few seasons and is constantly top 3, every season.
Unless teams have GPS trackers logging their movement, there is no solid basis to claim who has been where for how long. And imagine the outcry when the NA ladder was a significant factor of inviting people.
Demuslim just got screwed by the system that blizzard deemed "least bad" ( all invitation based systems are bad in my book). In addition of complaining about it emotionally people should at least add a rational alternative.
Im sad that he didnt make it, but i cannot think of any other invitation system that would not create even more drama.
It's pretty easy to determine residencies. Just show a copy of a lease/utility bill, etc. That's how it's done for every local legal entity in the U.S. I'm sure Polt has a lease for an apartment, and I'm guessing EG has some documentation showing that Demuslim's residency is at the EG lair.
We dont know that for sure, there might be similar documentation for lot of people who visit US often for the weekend tournaments.
A signed lease or utility bill is the standard documentation for residency in every single county/parish in the United States. If a Korean has a utility bill or a signed lease while staying in Korea, then they are wasting a whole bunch of money.
Also, how do people get utility bills and leases when they visit the US for a weekend? Is there some weird gray market for these documents that I am not aware of? What is the going rate for a forged comcast bill?
WCS is really a clusterfuck. Too many deserving people passed over. It kinda sucks that koreans who switched over will automatically get an invite while ostojiy is passed over
On April 11 2013 09:03 Thrill wrote: Why are people ***SHOCKED!!!*** demuslim didn't get an invite? Guys, wtf... he's completely unaccomplished at LAN and the qualifier is actually online, if he's so good at online play, let him prove it and earn an invite.
There is this thing called Liquipedia, which is above you. If you click on it, you will see that he beat Neastea an MGL and placed highly WCS EU. He is also number 1 on the NA server right now. Now lets take like HELLOKITTY, who has won or qualified for NOTHING and is not number one of the NA ladder. Who would receive an invite?
Hellokitty places 5th at WCS USA thats why he probably get invited for that accomplishment. Also 5th place Illusion got a slot. daisuki out for known reasons and Insur must have turned it down?
Demuslim has one RO8 result in the last year as a top result and was 2nd in UK. Thats the best result and counting as a foreigner in NA, it makes absolute sense he gets no seed. Ziktomini UK #1 didnt get invite to EU even, so DeMuslim would not get it either to that area.
One questionable is TLO for me, he didnt place well in german WCS.. he has 3 consistent top8 finishes though in the past half a year. Or Dimaga who didnt make national finals at all last year. If any, should have been Happy for invite.
On April 12 2013 01:11 Zygno wrote: To count Demuslim as a non NA-player is pretty dumb, because he's been living in the US for about one year or so
In that case they probably would have to count Polt and Violet NA players too... and perhaps JYP/Puma still have the same sort of visas Demuslim has or whatever paperwork the "NA-player" definiton has to be based upon.
Well, but he is actually really living there. Puma/JYP both live in Korea and were just a short amount of time in the US. Not sure about Violet and Polt. Also Demuslim has been playing purely one the NA-Server in the last few seasons and is constantly top 3, every season.
Unless teams have GPS trackers logging their movement, there is no solid basis to claim who has been where for how long. And imagine the outcry when the NA ladder was a significant factor of inviting people.
Demuslim just got screwed by the system that blizzard deemed "least bad" ( all invitation based systems are bad in my book). In addition of complaining about it emotionally people should at least add a rational alternative.
Im sad that he didnt make it, but i cannot think of any other invitation system that would not create even more drama.
It's pretty easy to determine residencies. Just show a copy of a lease/utility bill, etc. That's how it's done for every local legal entity in the U.S. I'm sure Polt has a lease for an apartment, and I'm guessing EG has some documentation showing that Demuslim's residency is at the EG lair.
We dont know that for sure, there might be similar documentation for lot of people who visit US often for the weekend tournaments.
A signed lease or utility bill is the standard documentation for residency in every single county/parish in the United States. If a Korean has a utility bill or a signed lease while staying in Korea, then they are wasting a whole bunch of money.
Also, how do people get utility bills and leases when they visit the US for a weekend? Is there some weird gray market for these documents that I am not aware of? What is the going rate for a forged comcast bill?
Well if we go by utility bills, then demuslim does not qualify for invitaiton i dont think he any of those.
But yes, after this discussion i somewhat agree - it could have been possible to make up a system where only demuslim, stephano, polt and violet and perhaps few more could have gotten into the "NA resident" invite list - without people getting too angry about seeing EU/KR flags in a list of players invited from NA...
On April 12 2013 01:11 Zygno wrote: To count Demuslim as a non NA-player is pretty dumb, because he's been living in the US for about one year or so
In that case they probably would have to count Polt and Violet NA players too... and perhaps JYP/Puma still have the same sort of visas Demuslim has or whatever paperwork the "NA-player" definiton has to be based upon.
Well, but he is actually really living there. Puma/JYP both live in Korea and were just a short amount of time in the US. Not sure about Violet and Polt. Also Demuslim has been playing purely one the NA-Server in the last few seasons and is constantly top 3, every season.
Unless teams have GPS trackers logging their movement, there is no solid basis to claim who has been where for how long. And imagine the outcry when the NA ladder was a significant factor of inviting people.
Demuslim just got screwed by the system that blizzard deemed "least bad" ( all invitation based systems are bad in my book). In addition of complaining about it emotionally people should at least add a rational alternative.
Im sad that he didnt make it, but i cannot think of any other invitation system that would not create even more drama.
It's pretty easy to determine residencies. Just show a copy of a lease/utility bill, etc. That's how it's done for every local legal entity in the U.S. I'm sure Polt has a lease for an apartment, and I'm guessing EG has some documentation showing that Demuslim's residency is at the EG lair.
We dont know that for sure, there might be similar documentation for lot of people who visit US often for the weekend tournaments.
A signed lease or utility bill is the standard documentation for residency in every single county/parish in the United States. If a Korean has a utility bill or a signed lease while staying in Korea, then they are wasting a whole bunch of money.
Also, how do people get utility bills and leases when they visit the US for a weekend? Is there some weird gray market for these documents that I am not aware of? What is the going rate for a forged comcast bill?
Well if we go by utility bills, then demuslim does not qualify for invitaiton i dont think he any of those.
But yes, after this discussion i somewhat agree - it could have been possible to make up a system where only demuslim, stephano, polt and violet and perhaps few more could have gotten into the "NA resident" invite list - without people getting too angry about seeing EU/KR flags in a list of players invited from NA...
If EG, Axiom, Quantic, and Liquid moved all of their Koreans to America and set up American teamhouses to qualify for NA residency, I don't think anyone should be angry. If anything that should be encouraged because you just increased the skill level of the continent and the NA ladder. People are upset because if Koreans live and train in Korea and just fly in for the "American" tournament, then actual people who live in NA don't have a chance to hit them on the ladder and get good practice.
On April 12 2013 03:04 Grettin wrote: Seems to me that even EGs CEO (Alex Garfield) doesn't know why DeMuslim didn't get an invite. Interesting to hear (hopefully) back from Sundance.
Good, our efforts continue. If they don't want to tell us the system that invites were give, I'm going to shamelessly shill for my favorite players. Plus my girlfriend was really bummed he didn't get an invite.
It's also funny how the NA scene *BEGS* for invites. And the EU guys sign up in huge numbers for their qualifiers instead; 430 with 2,5 days to go; that is already more than GSL qualifers.
Difference in gaming culture much?
3 americans spotted though on EU and only 1 korean. Damned they taking our spaces! :D
On April 12 2013 03:30 TumNarDok wrote: It's also funny how the NA scene *BEGS* for invites. And the EU guys sign up in huge numbers for their qualifiers instead; 430 with 2,5 days to go; that is already more than GSL qualifers.
Difference in gaming culture much?
3 americans spotted though on EU and only 1 korean. Damned they taking our spaces! :D
There are many different things going on here.
First, the NA qualifiers will have the entire Axiom, Korean EG, and Korean Liquid teams entering them. That's very different from the EU qualifiers. I'm sure if the EU had a proleague team and a GSTL team entering its qualifier, the EU players would also want invites into the EU regionals.
Second, the EU invites make sense. There really aren't glaring omissions or snubs on that list. It's almost like someone did research into the 24 players who best represent the top of the skill level for the EU scene. However, we have no idea who came up with the NA invite list because it leaves off key members of the NA scene like Demuslim.
On April 12 2013 03:30 TumNarDok wrote: It's also funny how the NA scene *BEGS* for invites. And the EU guys sign up in huge numbers for their qualifiers instead; 430 with 2,5 days to go; that is already more than GSL qualifers.
Difference in gaming culture much?
3 americans spotted though on EU and only 1 korean. Damned they taking our spaces! :D
Can you please share link to qualifiers ? I cant find them.
On April 12 2013 03:30 TumNarDok wrote: It's also funny how the NA scene *BEGS* for invites. And the EU guys sign up in huge numbers for their qualifiers instead; 430 with 2,5 days to go; that is already more than GSL qualifers.
Difference in gaming culture much?
3 americans spotted though on EU and only 1 korean. Damned they taking our spaces! :D
In reference to how many people have signed up: Correct me if I'm wrong, but qualifiers for EU are also free, no?
On April 12 2013 03:30 TumNarDok wrote: It's also funny how the NA scene *BEGS* for invites. And the EU guys sign up in huge numbers for their qualifiers instead; 430 with 2,5 days to go; that is already more than GSL qualifers.
Difference in gaming culture much?
3 americans spotted though on EU and only 1 korean. Damned they taking our spaces! :D
But the players that were not invited aren't begging for anything and they are willing to compete in the qualifiers. However, there are a group of fans for some players that are annoyed with the invite process and the system used to invite the players. If you go to Sundance's twitter, he just admitted that Demuslim was considered to be EU for the invite process, but selected NA as his region. So basically, they considered for an invite he didn't even sign up for. That's not begging, that's the fan basing telling the organizer "Your staff can't do math, please check again"
You are right that the NA gaming culture does suck a little in NA. There are some people whining about stupid stuff like $20 fees, when Magic tournaments have a $15 by in. Through, I am sure having the same number of Korean players entering the EU scene would the wind out of some people's sails.
On April 12 2013 03:30 TumNarDok wrote: It's also funny how the NA scene *BEGS* for invites. And the EU guys sign up in huge numbers for their qualifiers instead; 430 with 2,5 days to go; that is already more than GSL qualifers.
Difference in gaming culture much?
3 americans spotted though on EU and only 1 korean. Damned they taking our spaces! :D
Can you please share link to qualifiers ? I cant find them.
On April 12 2013 03:30 TumNarDok wrote: It's also funny how the NA scene *BEGS* for invites. And the EU guys sign up in huge numbers for their qualifiers instead; 430 with 2,5 days to go; that is already more than GSL qualifers.
Difference in gaming culture much?
3 americans spotted though on EU and only 1 korean. Damned they taking our spaces! :D
That's why all the Koreans came to WCS-A. They realize the american scene is extremely weak, and they stand to gain the most by competing here. Plus, it's probably closer to come to the west coast, than to go to Europe.
On April 12 2013 03:30 TumNarDok wrote: It's also funny how the NA scene *BEGS* for invites. And the EU guys sign up in huge numbers for their qualifiers instead; 430 with 2,5 days to go; that is already more than GSL qualifers.
Difference in gaming culture much?
3 americans spotted though on EU and only 1 korean. Damned they taking our spaces! :D
If you go to Sundance's twitter, he just admitted that Demuslim was considered to be EU for the invite process, but selected NA as his region.
I don't have a problem with this. Demu is from the EU so was in consideration for the 8 non NA spots like polt/violet, etc. Under those conditions, demu's results don't stack up to the other 8. Good guy sundance investigates and gives reasonable explanation.
Sure it sucks for demu, but it's the correct call. Otherwise you have to give the same treatment to someone like Polt living in the US and have him take an NA seed too, instead of 1 of the 8 global seeds.
On April 12 2013 03:30 TumNarDok wrote: It's also funny how the NA scene *BEGS* for invites. And the EU guys sign up in huge numbers for their qualifiers instead; 430 with 2,5 days to go; that is already more than GSL qualifers.
Difference in gaming culture much?
3 americans spotted though on EU and only 1 korean. Damned they taking our spaces! :D
If you go to Sundance's twitter, he just admitted that Demuslim was considered to be EU for the invite process, but selected NA as his region.
I don't have a problem with this. Demu is from the EU so was in consideration for the 8 non NA spots like polt/violet, etc. Under those conditions, demu's results don't stack up to the other 8. Good guy sundance investigates and gives reasonable explanation.
Sure it sucks for demu, but it's the correct call. Otherwise you have to give the same treatment to someone like Polt living in the US and have him take an NA seed too, instead of 1 of the 8 global seeds.
They could have at least explained this to him so that he could make a useful decision before entering NA.
Also, Polt should get an NA spot. He lives and practices in NA, why shouldn't he get a spot reserved for someone who lives and practices in NA? If Stephano was still in Code S, would people be complaining that he took away a spot of a Korean?
On April 12 2013 03:30 TumNarDok wrote: It's also funny how the NA scene *BEGS* for invites. And the EU guys sign up in huge numbers for their qualifiers instead; 430 with 2,5 days to go; that is already more than GSL qualifers.
Difference in gaming culture much?
3 americans spotted though on EU and only 1 korean. Damned they taking our spaces! :D
If you go to Sundance's twitter, he just admitted that Demuslim was considered to be EU for the invite process, but selected NA as his region.
I don't have a problem with this. Demu is from the EU so was in consideration for the 8 non NA spots like polt/violet, etc. Under those conditions, demu's results don't stack up to the other 8. Good guy sundance investigates and gives reasonable explanation.
I am calling BS on that though. If they are going to force people to pick regions, they need to tell people in advance how many slots are available and what events are being considered to qualify for those spots. You can't ask players to just roll the dice, hope it works out and they get in. If so, why event consider competing in a region when your efforts will be totally wasted because they don't consider you on equal foot for that region for reasons you can't predict.
On April 12 2013 03:30 TumNarDok wrote: It's also funny how the NA scene *BEGS* for invites. And the EU guys sign up in huge numbers for their qualifiers instead; 430 with 2,5 days to go; that is already more than GSL qualifers.
Difference in gaming culture much?
3 americans spotted though on EU and only 1 korean. Damned they taking our spaces! :D
If you go to Sundance's twitter, he just admitted that Demuslim was considered to be EU for the invite process, but selected NA as his region.
I don't have a problem with this. Demu is from the EU so was in consideration for the 8 non NA spots like polt/violet, etc. Under those conditions, demu's results don't stack up to the other 8. Good guy sundance investigates and gives reasonable explanation.
Sure it sucks for demu, but it's the correct call. Otherwise you have to give the same treatment to someone like Polt living in the US and have him take an NA seed too, instead of 1 of the 8 global seeds.
If Stephano was still in Code S, would people be complaining that he took away a spot of a Korean?
Yes. There have always been complaints about free foreigner seeds being given away in GSL.
On April 12 2013 03:30 TumNarDok wrote: It's also funny how the NA scene *BEGS* for invites. And the EU guys sign up in huge numbers for their qualifiers instead; 430 with 2,5 days to go; that is already more than GSL qualifers.
Difference in gaming culture much?
3 americans spotted though on EU and only 1 korean. Damned they taking our spaces! :D
If you go to Sundance's twitter, he just admitted that Demuslim was considered to be EU for the invite process, but selected NA as his region.
I don't have a problem with this. Demu is from the EU so was in consideration for the 8 non NA spots like polt/violet, etc. Under those conditions, demu's results don't stack up to the other 8. Good guy sundance investigates and gives reasonable explanation.
I am calling BS on that though. If they are going to force people to pick regions, they need to tell people in advance how many slots are available and what events are being considered to qualify for those spots. You can't ask players to just roll the dice, hope it works out and they get in. If so, why event consider competing in a region when your efforts will be totally wasted because they don't consider you on equal foot for that region for reasons you can't predict.
I agree the lack of information given is a problem. I just don't have a problem with the criteria used to choose those spots. Players should have been given more information from the start.
On April 12 2013 04:04 Elairec wrote: Hasn't Demuslim been in NA for, oh idk about two years now?
That doesn't matter. Its not region locked, but you are considered not from that region if you weren't born there and limited because of it. Unless you Korean, where you can swap regions after the first season if you don't qualify.
On April 12 2013 03:30 TumNarDok wrote: It's also funny how the NA scene *BEGS* for invites. And the EU guys sign up in huge numbers for their qualifiers instead; 430 with 2,5 days to go; that is already more than GSL qualifers.
Difference in gaming culture much?
3 americans spotted though on EU and only 1 korean. Damned they taking our spaces! :D
If you go to Sundance's twitter, he just admitted that Demuslim was considered to be EU for the invite process, but selected NA as his region.
I don't have a problem with this. Demu is from the EU so was in consideration for the 8 non NA spots like polt/violet, etc. Under those conditions, demu's results don't stack up to the other 8. Good guy sundance investigates and gives reasonable explanation.
Sure it sucks for demu, but it's the correct call. Otherwise you have to give the same treatment to someone like Polt living in the US and have him take an NA seed too, instead of 1 of the 8 global seeds.
If Stephano was still in Code S, would people be complaining that he took away a spot of a Korean?
Yes. There have always been complaints about free foreigner seeds being given away in GSL.
I always read those complaints were more along the lines of "these people are given a spot and don't fully commit to living and training in Korea." People were ok with Naniwa sticking around for a few seasons of GSL, but everyone gets upset with the people who go there for a few weeks, lose, and return to their home country.
On April 12 2013 03:30 TumNarDok wrote: It's also funny how the NA scene *BEGS* for invites. And the EU guys sign up in huge numbers for their qualifiers instead; 430 with 2,5 days to go; that is already more than GSL qualifers.
Difference in gaming culture much?
3 americans spotted though on EU and only 1 korean. Damned they taking our spaces! :D
If you go to Sundance's twitter, he just admitted that Demuslim was considered to be EU for the invite process, but selected NA as his region.
I don't have a problem with this. Demu is from the EU so was in consideration for the 8 non NA spots like polt/violet, etc. Under those conditions, demu's results don't stack up to the other 8. Good guy sundance investigates and gives reasonable explanation.
Sure it sucks for demu, but it's the correct call. Otherwise you have to give the same treatment to someone like Polt living in the US and have him take an NA seed too, instead of 1 of the 8 global seeds.
If Stephano was still in Code S, would people be complaining that he took away a spot of a Korean?
Yes. There have always been complaints about free foreigner seeds being given away in GSL.
On April 12 2013 03:30 TumNarDok wrote: It's also funny how the NA scene *BEGS* for invites. And the EU guys sign up in huge numbers for their qualifiers instead; 430 with 2,5 days to go; that is already more than GSL qualifers.
Difference in gaming culture much?
3 americans spotted though on EU and only 1 korean. Damned they taking our spaces! :D
If you go to Sundance's twitter, he just admitted that Demuslim was considered to be EU for the invite process, but selected NA as his region.
I don't have a problem with this. Demu is from the EU so was in consideration for the 8 non NA spots like polt/violet, etc. Under those conditions, demu's results don't stack up to the other 8. Good guy sundance investigates and gives reasonable explanation.
I am calling BS on that though. If they are going to force people to pick regions, they need to tell people in advance how many slots are available and what events are being considered to qualify for those spots. You can't ask players to just roll the dice, hope it works out and they get in. If so, why event consider competing in a region when your efforts will be totally wasted because they don't consider you on equal foot for that region for reasons you can't predict.
I agree the lack of information given is a problem. I just don't have a problem with the criteria used to choose those spots. Players should have been given more information from the start.
From someone who works in the legal field for large, sort of dumb businesses, not providing full information and then forcing people to make decisions that impact them financially is legally questionable. No one is going to sue, but it is a whole bunch of BS.
On April 12 2013 03:30 TumNarDok wrote: It's also funny how the NA scene *BEGS* for invites. And the EU guys sign up in huge numbers for their qualifiers instead; 430 with 2,5 days to go; that is already more than GSL qualifers.
Difference in gaming culture much?
3 americans spotted though on EU and only 1 korean. Damned they taking our spaces! :D
If you go to Sundance's twitter, he just admitted that Demuslim was considered to be EU for the invite process, but selected NA as his region.
I don't have a problem with this. Demu is from the EU so was in consideration for the 8 non NA spots like polt/violet, etc. Under those conditions, demu's results don't stack up to the other 8. Good guy sundance investigates and gives reasonable explanation.
Sure it sucks for demu, but it's the correct call. Otherwise you have to give the same treatment to someone like Polt living in the US and have him take an NA seed too, instead of 1 of the 8 global seeds.
If Stephano was still in Code S, would people be complaining that he took away a spot of a Korean?
Yes. There have always been complaints about free foreigner seeds being given away in GSL.
On April 12 2013 04:03 Plansix wrote:
On April 12 2013 03:56 Canucklehead wrote:
On April 12 2013 03:50 Plansix wrote:
On April 12 2013 03:30 TumNarDok wrote: It's also funny how the NA scene *BEGS* for invites. And the EU guys sign up in huge numbers for their qualifiers instead; 430 with 2,5 days to go; that is already more than GSL qualifers.
Difference in gaming culture much?
3 americans spotted though on EU and only 1 korean. Damned they taking our spaces! :D
If you go to Sundance's twitter, he just admitted that Demuslim was considered to be EU for the invite process, but selected NA as his region.
I don't have a problem with this. Demu is from the EU so was in consideration for the 8 non NA spots like polt/violet, etc. Under those conditions, demu's results don't stack up to the other 8. Good guy sundance investigates and gives reasonable explanation.
I am calling BS on that though. If they are going to force people to pick regions, they need to tell people in advance how many slots are available and what events are being considered to qualify for those spots. You can't ask players to just roll the dice, hope it works out and they get in. If so, why event consider competing in a region when your efforts will be totally wasted because they don't consider you on equal foot for that region for reasons you can't predict.
I agree the lack of information given is a problem. I just don't have a problem with the criteria used to choose those spots. Players should have been given more information from the start.
From someone who works in the legal field for large, sort of dumb businesses, not providing full information and then forcing people to make decisions that impact them financially is legally questionable. No one is going to sue, but it is a whole bunch of BS.
It's pretty obvious there was a lack of information otherwise Demuslim would have actually said "I chose to stay in NA over EU and forgo an invite to the EU regionals."
Heck, a breakdown of what the prize-pool is for 16th in EU would have been nice so that EG and Demuslim could have decided if it was worth it to register in the EU and fly him out for each round.
So I loaded up this topic this morning, read the first list (NA) and thought, "huh, that's really weird, I never expected DeMuslim to choose Europe as his region". Then scanned through the EU list, checked the NA list again and genuinely thought it was an omission. Then scanned all the thread pages searching the word "DeMuslim" and it quickly became obvious that everyone was just as saddened by this as I was.
If there is any silver lining to this very dark cloud it's that DeMuslim is currently in the one of the best forms of his SC2 career and actually could stand a good chance in the qualifiers. But my god, the odds are not in his favour, 8 slots availible and 20 Korean's competing for one, one of which is Violet, DeMuslim's kryptonite.
It's probably already been mentioned but I only skimmed the thread, why the hell is Snute in NA? All the other's I can at least find a reason as to why they received their seeds (regardless of whether there are those who are more deserving). Snute is the only one who stands as the odd one out to me.
On April 12 2013 05:04 Greendotz wrote: So I loaded up this topic this morning, read the first list (NA) and thought, "huh, that's really weird, I never expected DeMuslim to choose Europe as his region". Then scanned through the EU list, checked the NA list again and genuinely thought it was an omission. Then scanned all the thread pages searching the word "DeMuslim" and it quickly became obvious that everyone was just as saddened by this as I was.
If there is any silver lining to this very dark cloud it's that DeMuslim is currently in the one of the best forms of his SC2 career and actually could stand a good chance in the qualifiers. But my god, the odds are not in his favour, 8 slots availible and 20 Korean's competing for one, one of which is Violet, DeMuslim's kryptonite.
It's probably already been mentioned but I only skimmed the thread, why the hell is Snute in NA? All the other's I can at least find a reason as to why they received their seeds (regardless of whether there are those who are more deserving). Snute is the only one who stands as the odd one out to me.
It does seem kind of weird with TLO and ret playing EU so it's not like Liquid is all playing in NA. I guess he just felt like his chances were better in NA or something? who knows? I can see him getting his seed though because he recently won ESET UK Masters which had some Koreans there and he also won HSC 6 not too long ago at the end of 2012. I have nothing against DeMuslim but those results are still better than what he has had in the time frame.
On April 12 2013 05:04 Greendotz wrote: So I loaded up this topic this morning, read the first list (NA) and thought, "huh, that's really weird, I never expected DeMuslim to choose Europe as his region". Then scanned through the EU list, checked the NA list again and genuinely thought it was an omission. Then scanned all the thread pages searching the word "DeMuslim" and it quickly became obvious that everyone was just as saddened by this as I was.
If there is any silver lining to this very dark cloud it's that DeMuslim is currently in the one of the best forms of his SC2 career and actually could stand a good chance in the qualifiers. But my god, the odds are not in his favour, 8 slots availible and 20 Korean's competing for one, one of which is Violet, DeMuslim's kryptonite.
It's probably already been mentioned but I only skimmed the thread, why the hell is Snute in NA? All the other's I can at least find a reason as to why they received their seeds (regardless of whether there are those who are more deserving). Snute is the only one who stands as the odd one out to me.
It does seem kind of weird with TLO and ret playing EU so it's not like Liquid is all playing in NA. I guess he just felt like his chances were better in NA or something? who knows? I can see him getting his seed though because he recently won ESET UK Masters which had some Koreans there and he also won HSC 6 not too long ago at the end of 2012. I have nothing against DeMuslim but those results are still better than what he has had in the time frame.
It's been speculated snute is going to korea to play in pro league. Lag from kr to eu is terrible, so he chose to play in na region from korea.
On April 12 2013 05:04 Greendotz wrote: So I loaded up this topic this morning, read the first list (NA) and thought, "huh, that's really weird, I never expected DeMuslim to choose Europe as his region". Then scanned through the EU list, checked the NA list again and genuinely thought it was an omission. Then scanned all the thread pages searching the word "DeMuslim" and it quickly became obvious that everyone was just as saddened by this as I was.
If there is any silver lining to this very dark cloud it's that DeMuslim is currently in the one of the best forms of his SC2 career and actually could stand a good chance in the qualifiers. But my god, the odds are not in his favour, 8 slots availible and 20 Korean's competing for one, one of which is Violet, DeMuslim's kryptonite.
It's probably already been mentioned but I only skimmed the thread, why the hell is Snute in NA? All the other's I can at least find a reason as to why they received their seeds (regardless of whether there are those who are more deserving). Snute is the only one who stands as the odd one out to me.
It does seem kind of weird with TLO and ret playing EU so it's not like Liquid is all playing in NA. I guess he just felt like his chances were better in NA or something? who knows? I can see him getting his seed though because he recently won ESET UK Masters which had some Koreans there and he also won HSC 6 not too long ago at the end of 2012. I have nothing against DeMuslim but those results are still better than what he has had in the time frame.
It's been speculated snute is going to korea to play in pro league. Lag from kr to eu is terrible, so he chose to play in na region from korea.
On April 12 2013 05:04 Greendotz wrote: So I loaded up this topic this morning, read the first list (NA) and thought, "huh, that's really weird, I never expected DeMuslim to choose Europe as his region". Then scanned through the EU list, checked the NA list again and genuinely thought it was an omission. Then scanned all the thread pages searching the word "DeMuslim" and it quickly became obvious that everyone was just as saddened by this as I was.
If there is any silver lining to this very dark cloud it's that DeMuslim is currently in the one of the best forms of his SC2 career and actually could stand a good chance in the qualifiers. But my god, the odds are not in his favour, 8 slots availible and 20 Korean's competing for one, one of which is Violet, DeMuslim's kryptonite.
It's probably already been mentioned but I only skimmed the thread, why the hell is Snute in NA? All the other's I can at least find a reason as to why they received their seeds (regardless of whether there are those who are more deserving). Snute is the only one who stands as the odd one out to me.
It does seem kind of weird with TLO and ret playing EU so it's not like Liquid is all playing in NA. I guess he just felt like his chances were better in NA or something? who knows? I can see him getting his seed though because he recently won ESET UK Masters which had some Koreans there and he also won HSC 6 not too long ago at the end of 2012. I have nothing against DeMuslim but those results are still better than what he has had in the time frame.
On April 12 2013 05:04 Greendotz wrote: So I loaded up this topic this morning, read the first list (NA) and thought, "huh, that's really weird, I never expected DeMuslim to choose Europe as his region". Then scanned through the EU list, checked the NA list again and genuinely thought it was an omission. Then scanned all the thread pages searching the word "DeMuslim" and it quickly became obvious that everyone was just as saddened by this as I was.
If there is any silver lining to this very dark cloud it's that DeMuslim is currently in the one of the best forms of his SC2 career and actually could stand a good chance in the qualifiers. But my god, the odds are not in his favour, 8 slots availible and 20 Korean's competing for one, one of which is Violet, DeMuslim's kryptonite.
It's probably already been mentioned but I only skimmed the thread, why the hell is Snute in NA? All the other's I can at least find a reason as to why they received their seeds (regardless of whether there are those who are more deserving). Snute is the only one who stands as the odd one out to me.
It does seem kind of weird with TLO and ret playing EU so it's not like Liquid is all playing in NA. I guess he just felt like his chances were better in NA or something? who knows? I can see him getting his seed though because he recently won ESET UK Masters which had some Koreans there and he also won HSC 6 not too long ago at the end of 2012. I have nothing against DeMuslim but those results are still better than what he has had in the time frame.
It's been speculated snute is going to korea to play in pro league. Lag from kr to eu is terrible, so he chose to play in na region from korea.
That would make sense
I agree that the HSC 6 result was really good, but that's starting to get to the point where invitational wins beget more invitations. It's almost not fair to count the numerous European tournaments in the past few months when comparing Americans to Europeans. It's not like the NA scene had an equivalent of the ESET UK Masters for Demuslim (or any NA-based player) to compete in. NA just had an invitational MLG tournament.
On April 12 2013 05:50 Angel_ wrote: Maybe not the best place to ask, but, if you don't qualify for wcs...does it mean anything? Other than that you can't play in the actual WCS final?
If you don't qualify in the open qualifiers, you can only play in non-WCS events, MLG, IEM, Dreamhack and so on. But no weekly event and they can't try to play in the final unless they qualify for a season and earn enough points.
On April 12 2013 06:30 TritaN wrote: From Sundance's Twitter:
Updates to the NA WCS qual process inbound.
2 key changes.
People should be happy - except possibly the tourney admins...
Hmm...
prolly just all qualifiers or more qualfiers? Only thing to make tourney admins more upset
All qualifiers? Hmm, they can't possibly recall all the invites after they made them public, that would make the invitees probably pretty mad (and rightly so). But you know that better probably, considering you are an invitee
On April 12 2013 01:47 Hasuu wrote: It really dissapoints me to not see up and coming top NA players like Quanitc Glon on that list. Instead Korean pro gamers? In NA?
It befundles me that Hellokitty/Capoch got in.... overall the entire process disgusts me.
But it's OK - I now have to do a 256 open man bracket versus a horde of koreans. I'd rather have a chance with a slap in the face than not have one at all.
This invitation + qualifier combination is weird. After this first season, all spots will be determined by a clear and proven qualification process. It is a huge improvement for the NA and EU scenes that 9 new major events per year (7 in 2013) will have a clear and good qualification process. Despite this promising future, just for this first season, WCS is going to have 3/4 of the Premier players determined by invitation. It has to be somewhat open or people will (rightfully) be outraged so 1/4 of the players will be determined by a one-time qualification process. But the qualification process could just as easily determine all 32 players. So as long as there must be a qualifier, why not allow it to determine all players?
Invites are simply vague and shitty qualification processes. If you invite someone because they got some result at some random past tournament, then that tournament was essentially a qualifier for your invitational event and that's just absurd. It's a reasonable shortcut when it's not feasible to run qualifiers or when you're not trying to determine the players in your tournament by merit. But if you are doing a real qualification process anyway, then there's no reason to have any invites.
I personnaly think all foreigner from any region should get a seed and earn a spot. If youd put like top 32 ladder from each region with a close watch at abuse well that would make the ladder so fun !!!! :D
Alright, this is going to be on page 30 or something but I hope some people will really see it because there are so many weird things being thrown around in here...
The way the invites have worked for North America is like this:
There are 24 invitations total. 16 of those invites were supposed to be going to American players (this includes Mexico, South America, etc.) and those are the following:
These 2 categories people were done seperately and even if you're residing in North America you are not a North American player. A controversial one is that people are giving MLG a lot of flack for having invited Capoch, Maker and a few others instead of DeMusliM but it's completely irrelevant based on how the system works. DeMusliM does not belong in that category, but he belongs between the last 8 invitation spots.
The non-American invites are 5 Koreans, 2 SEA people (TW and Australia) and 1 European. It's very clear that regions have been a factor as well as skill. I don't think the invitation is supposed to be stating that mOOnGLaDe is better than all the other contenders there were, but they were trying to distribute it to all regions so they wouldn't just invite 8 Koreans. What you can discuss is whether or not there should have been a different distribution and this is where a player like DeMusliM comes to mind for me. I could see it making sense removing a Korean invite (which in this case probably would have been Ryung) and given one more to Europe (DeMusliM or Stephano, but I assume Stephano would have gotten it if he had wanted it but he chose WCS EU).
On April 12 2013 07:46 Bumblebee wrote: Alright, this is going to be on page 30 or something but I hope some people will really see it because there are so many weird things being thrown around in here...
The way the invites have worked for North America is like this:
There are 24 invitations total. 16 of those invites were supposed to be going to American players (this includes Mexico, South America, etc.) and those are the following:
These 2 categories people were done seperately and even if you're residing in North America you are not a North American player. A controversial one is that people are giving MLG a lot of flack for having invited Capoch, Maker and a few others instead of DeMusliM but it's completely irrelevant based on how the system works. DeMusliM does not belong in that category, but he belongs between the last 8 invitation spots.
The non-American invites are 5 Koreans, 2 SEA people (TW and Australia) and 1 European. It's very clear that regions have been a factor as well as skill. I don't think the invitation is supposed to be stating that mOOnGLaDe is better than all the other contenders there were, but they were trying to distribute it to all regions so they wouldn't just invite 8 Koreans. What you can discuss is whether or not there should have been a different distribution and this is where a player like DeMusliM comes to mind for me. I could see it making sense removing a Korean invite (which in this case probably would have been Ryung) and given one more to Europe (DeMusliM or Stephano, but I assume Stephano would have gotten it if he had wanted it but he chose WCS EU).
Did the players know about these caps when they made the decision on what region to play WCS in? People understand the need for invite systems for the first WCS. The question is if the players were given enough information from Blizzard before they made the decision.
On April 12 2013 07:46 Bumblebee wrote: Alright, this is going to be on page 30 or something but I hope some people will really see it because there are so many weird things being thrown around in here...
The way the invites have worked for North America is like this:
There are 24 invitations total. 16 of those invites were supposed to be going to American players (this includes Mexico, South America, etc.) and those are the following:
These 2 categories people were done seperately and even if you're residing in North America you are not a North American player. A controversial one is that people are giving MLG a lot of flack for having invited Capoch, Maker and a few others instead of DeMusliM but it's completely irrelevant based on how the system works. DeMusliM does not belong in that category, but he belongs between the last 8 invitation spots.
The non-American invites are 5 Koreans, 2 SEA people (TW and Australia) and 1 European. It's very clear that regions have been a factor as well as skill. I don't think the invitation is supposed to be stating that mOOnGLaDe is better than all the other contenders there were, but they were trying to distribute it to all regions so they wouldn't just invite 8 Koreans. What you can discuss is whether or not there should have been a different distribution and this is where a player like DeMusliM comes to mind for me. I could see it making sense removing a Korean invite (which in this case probably would have been Ryung) and given one more to Europe (DeMusliM or Stephano, but I assume Stephano would have gotten it if he had wanted it but he chose WCS EU).
What competition was the seeds given out on? If it's purely based on WCS then Demuslim should've gotten a seed in the EU division over either HasuObs or ThorZaIN and MaNa and TitaN who finished the same as Demuslim. Even if its based on all tournaments, some of the invitees are (excuse my language) fucking horrible and makes no sense at all.
On April 12 2013 07:46 Bumblebee wrote: Alright, this is going to be on page 30 or something but I hope some people will really see it because there are so many weird things being thrown around in here...
The way the invites have worked for North America is like this:
There are 24 invitations total. 16 of those invites were supposed to be going to American players (this includes Mexico, South America, etc.) and those are the following:
These 2 categories people were done seperately and even if you're residing in North America you are not a North American player. A controversial one is that people are giving MLG a lot of flack for having invited Capoch, Maker and a few others instead of DeMusliM but it's completely irrelevant based on how the system works. DeMusliM does not belong in that category, but he belongs between the last 8 invitation spots.
The non-American invites are 5 Koreans, 2 SEA people (TW and Australia) and 1 European. It's very clear that regions have been a factor as well as skill. I don't think the invitation is supposed to be stating that mOOnGLaDe is better than all the other contenders there were, but they were trying to distribute it to all regions so they wouldn't just invite 8 Koreans. What you can discuss is whether or not there should have been a different distribution and this is where a player like DeMusliM comes to mind for me. I could see it making sense removing a Korean invite (which in this case probably would have been Ryung) and given one more to Europe (DeMusliM or Stephano, but I assume Stephano would have gotten it if he had wanted it but he chose WCS EU).
Did the players know about these caps when they made the decision on what region to play WCS in? People understand the need for invite systems for the first WCS. The question is if the players were given enough information from Blizzard before they made the decision.
Nazgul and I were fully aware of the system when we made the decision to play Snute, Zenio and HerO in NA for season 1, yes.
On April 12 2013 07:46 Bumblebee wrote: Alright, this is going to be on page 30 or something but I hope some people will really see it because there are so many weird things being thrown around in here...
The way the invites have worked for North America is like this:
There are 24 invitations total. 16 of those invites were supposed to be going to American players (this includes Mexico, South America, etc.) and those are the following:
These 2 categories people were done seperately and even if you're residing in North America you are not a North American player. A controversial one is that people are giving MLG a lot of flack for having invited Capoch, Maker and a few others instead of DeMusliM but it's completely irrelevant based on how the system works. DeMusliM does not belong in that category, but he belongs between the last 8 invitation spots.
The non-American invites are 5 Koreans, 2 SEA people (TW and Australia) and 1 European. It's very clear that regions have been a factor as well as skill. I don't think the invitation is supposed to be stating that mOOnGLaDe is better than all the other contenders there were, but they were trying to distribute it to all regions so they wouldn't just invite 8 Koreans. What you can discuss is whether or not there should have been a different distribution and this is where a player like DeMusliM comes to mind for me. I could see it making sense removing a Korean invite (which in this case probably would have been Ryung) and given one more to Europe (DeMusliM or Stephano, but I assume Stephano would have gotten it if he had wanted it but he chose WCS EU).
What competition was the seeds given out on? If it's purely based on WCS then Demuslim should've gotten a seed in the EU division over either HasuObs or ThorZaIN and MaNa and TitaN who finished the same as Demuslim. Even if its based on all tournaments, some of the invitees are (excuse my language) fucking horrible and makes no sense at all.
I don't think you can say iti was based on a competition, but more so what made sense due to a lot of factors. Marketing, skill, region, etc. I don't think there was just 1 factor. But I don't know for sure nor did I have any influence.
On April 12 2013 09:36 njoe wrote: Demuslim should be on that list and Idra should not.
It was already explained that Demuslim had to be compared to the 8 non north/south american player spots so idra didnt "take his place" nor did any other players from the americas + Show Spoiler +
On April 12 2013 07:46 Bumblebee wrote: Alright, this is going to be on page 30 or something but I hope some people will really see it because there are so many weird things being thrown around in here...
The way the invites have worked for North America is like this:
There are 24 invitations total. 16 of those invites were supposed to be going to American players (this includes Mexico, South America, etc.) and those are the following:
These 2 categories people were done seperately and even if you're residing in North America you are not a North American player. A controversial one is that people are giving MLG a lot of flack for having invited Capoch, Maker and a few others instead of DeMusliM but it's completely irrelevant based on how the system works. DeMusliM does not belong in that category, but he belongs between the last 8 invitation spots.
The non-American invites are 5 Koreans, 2 SEA people (TW and Australia) and 1 European. It's very clear that regions have been a factor as well as skill. I don't think the invitation is supposed to be stating that mOOnGLaDe is better than all the other contenders there were, but they were trying to distribute it to all regions so they wouldn't just invite 8 Koreans. What you can discuss is whether or not there should have been a different distribution and this is where a player like DeMusliM comes to mind for me. I could see it making sense removing a Korean invite (which in this case probably would have been Ryung) and given one more to Europe (DeMusliM or Stephano, but I assume Stephano would have gotten it if he had wanted it but he chose WCS EU).
The NA seeds are still questionable, there are better people to invite (results and/or popularity), but a mood point since nothing will change
On April 12 2013 01:47 Hasuu wrote: It really dissapoints me to not see up and coming top NA players like Quanitc Glon on that list. Instead Korean pro gamers? In NA?
It befundles me that Hellokitty/Capoch got in.... overall the entire process disgusts me.
But it's OK - I now have to do a 256 open man bracket versus a horde of koreans. I'd rather have a chance with a slap in the face than not have one at all.
i remember shitting on your every game we played on ladder and custom games, please don't think you're actually better than me.
It is actually mind blowing how dumb some of the SC2 community is.
This will be the biggest tournament(s) of the year with the most viewers. Guess what? Pro korean players bring viewership. I wonder how many people watched WCS NA 2012 compared to the recent MLG which reached 130,000 live viewers. Why? Because it had Life, Innovation and Flash. Therefore, WCS KR, WCS NA and WCS EU 2013 will all be extremely highly viewed tournaments independently (and thus imagine the end of the year at Blizzcon). People keep saying 'wow WCS EU 2012 was so amazing and it had no Koreans', yes that's true but it was the ONLY foreigner tournament that even closely matched the viewership of other tournaments with Koreans. And this year, WCS EU is pretty much exactly the same with the ADDITION of MMA, MC and MVP... what's not to like? I'm so sick of these apologies to shit USA players who whine because they don't have the balls to have the same strict practice regime that KeSPa Koreans employ which obviously work.
In addition, Total Biscuit's soundcloud file which was posted previously was absolutely non sensical and self contradictory. I agree that Blizzard didn't give the teams enough notice, but he went on a rant about how last year's WCS was shit in regards to grassroot tournaments that had no viewers - then saying this one should be region locked. Subsequently he then tried to justify why he was sending his entire Korean team to the USA... lol.... This protocol of no region lock is going to get Axiom the exposure it needs. One of the most watched tournaments of the year with his roster most likely dominating the rest of the player pool, and you're complaining TB? This will get you more exposure than you've ever experienced. WCS 2013 is certainly flawed, but it is the beginning of a new era where eSPORTS (yes I say sport, because I believe the best should win, not some dumb system of affirmative action) will have a period of exponential growth. Take a business class.
On April 12 2013 16:13 XtreMe_au wrote: It is actually mind blowing how dumb some of the SC2 community is.
This will be the biggest tournament(s) of the year with the most viewers. Guess what? Pro korean players bring viewership. I wonder how many people watched WCS NA 2012 compared to the recent MLG which reached 130,000 live viewers. Why? Because it had Life, Innovation and Flash. Therefore, WCS KR, WCS NA and WCS EU 2013 will all be extremely highly viewed tournaments independently (and thus imagine the end of the year at Blizzcon). People keep saying 'wow WCS EU 2012 was so amazing and it had no Koreans', yes that's true but it was the ONLY foreigner tournament that even closely matched the viewership of other tournaments with Koreans. And this year, WCS EU is pretty much exactly the same with the ADDITION of MMA, MC and MVP... what's not to like? I'm so sick of these apologies to shit USA players who whine because they don't have the balls to have the same strict practice regime that KeSPa Koreans employ which obviously work.
In addition, Total Biscuit's soundcloud file which was posted previously was absolutely non sensical and self contradictory. I agree that Blizzard didn't give the teams enough notice, but he went on a rant about how last year's WCS was shit in regards to grassroot tournaments that had no viewers - then saying this one should be region locked. Subsequently he then tried to justify why he was sending his entire Korean team to the USA... lol.... This protocol of no region lock is going to get Axiom the exposure it needs. One of the most watched tournaments of the year with his roster most likely dominating the rest of the player pool, and you're complaining TB? This will get you more exposure than you've ever experienced. WCS 2013 is certainly flawed, but it is the beginning of a new era where eSPORTS (yes I say sport, because I believe the best should win, not some dumb system of affirmative action) will have a period of exponential growth. Take a business class.
100% agree with this.
The anti Korean whiners, who care so much about where players are from and "personality", should just be happy that Kespa teams don't sign up their players, who are not in GSL, to WCS NA and EU. Then after a few seasons there would be only the most skilled players left in the biggest tournament, which should be the case. That is if Blizzard's goal of "Crowning a true global world champion" should have any credit or meaning.
As it is now, winning the GSL/OSL is still much harder than winning the WCS global finals.
It is like winning the UEFA champions league is much harder than winning the FIFA world club cup.
The fact that the NA community is whining over some of the NA player invites, just shows how weak the competition is in NA. Giving a tournament with these players parity with the GSL is just down right wrong and unfair to the many hard working players in Korea.
On April 12 2013 16:13 XtreMe_au wrote: It is actually mind blowing how dumb some of the SC2 community is.
This will be the biggest tournament(s) of the year with the most viewers. Guess what? Pro korean players bring viewership. I wonder how many people watched WCS NA 2012 compared to the recent MLG which reached 130,000 live viewers. Why? Because it had Life, Innovation and Flash. Therefore, WCS KR, WCS NA and WCS EU 2013 will all be extremely highly viewed tournaments independently (and thus imagine the end of the year at Blizzcon). People keep saying 'wow WCS EU 2012 was so amazing and it had no Koreans', yes that's true but it was the ONLY foreigner tournament that even closely matched the viewership of other tournaments with Koreans. And this year, WCS EU is pretty much exactly the same with the ADDITION of MMA, MC and MVP... what's not to like? I'm so sick of these apologies to shit USA players who whine because they don't have the balls to have the same strict practice regime that KeSPa Koreans employ which obviously work.
In addition, Total Biscuit's soundcloud file which was posted previously was absolutely non sensical and self contradictory. I agree that Blizzard didn't give the teams enough notice, but he went on a rant about how last year's WCS was shit in regards to grassroot tournaments that had no viewers - then saying this one should be region locked. Subsequently he then tried to justify why he was sending his entire Korean team to the USA... lol.... This protocol of no region lock is going to get Axiom the exposure it needs. One of the most watched tournaments of the year with his roster most likely dominating the rest of the player pool, and you're complaining TB? This will get you more exposure than you've ever experienced. WCS 2013 is certainly flawed, but it is the beginning of a new era where eSPORTS (yes I say sport, because I believe the best should win, not some dumb system of affirmative action) will have a period of exponential growth. Take a business class.
GL watching a pure korean code s in all 3 regions in 2 years time. I for once wont support it. This makes it impossible for the foreign scene to get decent sponsors and decent teamhouses where they can practice in. Just look at the code a in korean, they do nothing but practice all day long without having to worry about living or food expenses. Its not just about the business model, its about building the scene. And with this business model, it will hurt the foreign scene in the long run.
On April 12 2013 16:13 XtreMe_au wrote: It is actually mind blowing how dumb some of the SC2 community is.
This will be the biggest tournament(s) of the year with the most viewers. Guess what? Pro korean players bring viewership. I wonder how many people watched WCS NA 2012 compared to the recent MLG which reached 130,000 live viewers. Why? Because it had Life, Innovation and Flash. Therefore, WCS KR, WCS NA and WCS EU 2013 will all be extremely highly viewed tournaments independently (and thus imagine the end of the year at Blizzcon). People keep saying 'wow WCS EU 2012 was so amazing and it had no Koreans', yes that's true but it was the ONLY foreigner tournament that even closely matched the viewership of other tournaments with Koreans. And this year, WCS EU is pretty much exactly the same with the ADDITION of MMA, MC and MVP... what's not to like? I'm so sick of these apologies to shit USA players who whine because they don't have the balls to have the same strict practice regime that KeSPa Koreans employ which obviously work.
In addition, Total Biscuit's soundcloud file which was posted previously was absolutely non sensical and self contradictory. I agree that Blizzard didn't give the teams enough notice, but he went on a rant about how last year's WCS was shit in regards to grassroot tournaments that had no viewers - then saying this one should be region locked. Subsequently he then tried to justify why he was sending his entire Korean team to the USA... lol.... This protocol of no region lock is going to get Axiom the exposure it needs. One of the most watched tournaments of the year with his roster most likely dominating the rest of the player pool, and you're complaining TB? This will get you more exposure than you've ever experienced. WCS 2013 is certainly flawed, but it is the beginning of a new era where eSPORTS (yes I say sport, because I believe the best should win, not some dumb system of affirmative action) will have a period of exponential growth. Take a business class.
Nah you're probably just not smart enough to understand the concepts. Quite frankly with terminology like "A NEW ERA OF ESPORTS" you just sound like a Blizzard fanboi.
Feel free to tell me how to run my business though, I'm clearly not successful at it at all.
On April 12 2013 16:13 XtreMe_au wrote: It is actually mind blowing how dumb some of the SC2 community is.
This will be the biggest tournament(s) of the year with the most viewers. Guess what? Pro korean players bring viewership. I wonder how many people watched WCS NA 2012 compared to the recent MLG which reached 130,000 live viewers. Why? Because it had Life, Innovation and Flash. Therefore, WCS KR, WCS NA and WCS EU 2013 will all be extremely highly viewed tournaments independently (and thus imagine the end of the year at Blizzcon). People keep saying 'wow WCS EU 2012 was so amazing and it had no Koreans', yes that's true but it was the ONLY foreigner tournament that even closely matched the viewership of other tournaments with Koreans. And this year, WCS EU is pretty much exactly the same with the ADDITION of MMA, MC and MVP... what's not to like? I'm so sick of these apologies to shit USA players who whine because they don't have the balls to have the same strict practice regime that KeSPa Koreans employ which obviously work.
Yeah. No.
Your entire argument can be countered by pointing at WCS EU, which was the first tournament to make >100.000 concurrent viewers on one stream. Without a single Korean.
Then again, what am I doing here responding to a 5 post user?
I understand their concept of only 8 seeds being given to non-NA players. I even think that this is a good way to initialize the GSL-look-alike system. It will eventually all sort itself out as soon as the offline part starts increasing, as suddenly all the Koreans will realize that it is not easy money when you have to dedicate to living in a foreign country to be able to participate.
However, I still think Demuslim should have gotten one of the 8 seeds. If their decison was to seed only one European, then yes, I'd say that Demuslim is more deserving than Snute (sorry TL, I'm a fan, but also a realist). While Snute may have had better tournament results than Demuslim, he has been living in NA for a long time now, contributing to the scene a lot (ItG, an awesome stream with commentary etc) and he has been #1 on NA ladder at the time this system was set up. And last year, this was almost all that counted, so it is a bit weird to not regard it at all this year.
Second off, WHAT THE #%*@ is with the Nazi moderation around here? I opened a thread asking this very question (Where is DeMuslim in the invite list), and within 60 seconds I swear some mod closed it, says "talk about it in one of the WCS threads"... as if something this big on people's minds can't have its own thread? Is that kind of moderation how stuff happens around here? Why the hell would I want to contribute to a community like that?
You totally missed TotalBiscuit's point, if I understood it correctly he LIKED the WCS NA what he did not like was the WCS Finals which was boring and had shitty production which I agreed with.
People love to bash NA but just have a reminder of the old WCS NA, you saying this wouldn't be a legit tourney today?
Top 4 was Scarlett, Vibe, Idra and Major and also featured Illusion, Ostojiy (who got snubbed) HelloKitty, TT1, Huk, Illusion, theognis, dde, Gosuuser and Suppy.
If the tournament was like this today well, I'm not saying it would get 100K viewers but it looks really competitive on paper to me. People may tune in for fan favorites. QXC is not in this year but he wasn't in last year so it kinda makes sense to me, I feel like he has an outside shot to get one of those 8 spots if lucks on his side.
(Luckily we appear to have most of the original cast but honestly though, Scarlett would likely win again with a lack of Koreans)
I must admit... I may have overreacted a tad. Since they only inviting maybe 16 at most non NA players it does seem reasonable to allow 16 to keep viewer numbers high. I was thinking it was going to be purely skill based and with hardly any NA players. Unfortunately though this is easily enough to take top 8 spots =/ The first few rounds will be fun though as a foreigner fan.
European league is incredibly Euro-centric its kinda funny actually. They totally made out like bandits, Koreans gunned for NA and there isn't even a foreigner contingent in WCS Korea at all. The open brackets are where things get really interesting IMO if EU gets flooded with Koreans in one way it could topple them. If EU floods NA we could see a EU winner and a KR winner of EU. Oh, Blizzard...
8 of the right Korean could make life hell for EU, life already kinda sucks for NA so it doesn't change it too much. I am crossing my fingers Korean gets scared of the look of NA and does not gun for NA and tries EU that was Scarlett has a great chance.
On April 12 2013 01:47 Hasuu wrote: It really dissapoints me to not see up and coming top NA players like Quanitc Glon on that list. Instead Korean pro gamers? In NA?
It befundles me that Hellokitty/Capoch got in.... overall the entire process disgusts me.
But it's OK - I now have to do a 256 open man bracket versus a horde of koreans. I'd rather have a chance with a slap in the face than not have one at all.
i remember shitting on your every game we played on ladder and custom games, please don't think you're actually better than me.
I realize this - you're by far better than me. I can't beat you - your strategies are fool proof and micro/macro/multitask completely outshine me in every game we play.
Getting back to reality, why you were chosen over Demuslim is still baffling... not even going to use self as an example since if you purely go by MLG results I only have a top 32 / 2 top 48s, so understandable. Ranking wise. Using results from a completely different game that are over a year old.
On April 12 2013 01:47 Hasuu wrote: It really dissapoints me to not see up and coming top NA players like Quanitc Glon on that list. Instead Korean pro gamers? In NA?
It befundles me that Hellokitty/Capoch got in.... overall the entire process disgusts me.
But it's OK - I now have to do a 256 open man bracket versus a horde of koreans. I'd rather have a chance with a slap in the face than not have one at all.
i remember shitting on your every game we played on ladder and custom games, please don't think you're actually better than me.
I realize this - you're by far better than me. I can't beat you - your strategies are fool proof and micro/macro/multitask completely outshine me in every game we play.
Getting back to reality, why you were chosen over Demuslim is still baffling... not even going to use self as an example since if you purely go by MLG results I only have a top 32 / 2 top 48s, so understandable. Ranking wise. Using results from a completely different game that are over a year old.
Well, maybe because Demuslim is British and should be compared with the 8 non NA invites and not the 16 NA invtes?
I think the main fault of MLG (and ESL) is that they didn't make the criteria of their ranking of players public. It makes you suspect that there might not have been an objective ranking at all. They could have avoided all the speculation by being more transparent about it all.
On April 12 2013 01:47 Hasuu wrote: It really dissapoints me to not see up and coming top NA players like Quanitc Glon on that list. Instead Korean pro gamers? In NA?
It befundles me that Hellokitty/Capoch got in.... overall the entire process disgusts me.
But it's OK - I now have to do a 256 open man bracket versus a horde of koreans. I'd rather have a chance with a slap in the face than not have one at all.
i remember shitting on your every game we played on ladder and custom games, please don't think you're actually better than me.
I realize this - you're by far better than me. I can't beat you - your strategies are fool proof and micro/macro/multitask completely outshine me in every game we play.
Getting back to reality, why you were chosen over Demuslim is still baffling... not even going to use self as an example since if you purely go by MLG results I only have a top 32 / 2 top 48s, so understandable. Ranking wise. Using results from a completely different game that are over a year old.
Well, maybe because Demuslim is British and should be compared with the 8 non NA invites and not the 16 NA invtes?
I think the main fault of MLG (and ESL) is that they didn't make the criteria of their ranking of players public. It makes you suspect that there might not have been an objective ranking at all. They could have avoided all the speculation by being more transparent about it all.
OR that they're using results that are from a COMPLETELY different game and that are over a year old... that's kind of important too...
On April 12 2013 01:47 Hasuu wrote: It really dissapoints me to not see up and coming top NA players like Quanitc Glon on that list. Instead Korean pro gamers? In NA?
It befundles me that Hellokitty/Capoch got in.... overall the entire process disgusts me.
But it's OK - I now have to do a 256 open man bracket versus a horde of koreans. I'd rather have a chance with a slap in the face than not have one at all.
i remember shitting on your every game we played on ladder and custom games, please don't think you're actually better than me.
I realize this - you're by far better than me. I can't beat you - your strategies are fool proof and micro/macro/multitask completely outshine me in every game we play.
Getting back to reality, why you were chosen over Demuslim is still baffling... not even going to use self as an example since if you purely go by MLG results I only have a top 32 / 2 top 48s, so understandable. Ranking wise. Using results from a completely different game that are over a year old.
Well, maybe because Demuslim is British and should be compared with the 8 non NA invites and not the 16 NA invtes?
I think the main fault of MLG (and ESL) is that they didn't make the criteria of their ranking of players public. It makes you suspect that there might not have been an objective ranking at all. They could have avoided all the speculation by being more transparent about it all.
OR that they're using results that are from a COMPLETELY different game and that are over a year old... that's kind of important too...
It is not and OR but an AND because it is probably a combination of the two, which still has nothing to do with why Demuslim was not chosen over Hellokitty, because they were evaluated in two different groups...
Had it only been the results from the COMPLETELY different game, then Demuslim would had been chosen over Hellokitty.
On April 12 2013 15:54 Radicalness wrote: No Demuslim and qxc in NA is an epic fail. Especially for Demu.
The lack of logic in not inviting Demu is astounding. Oh well
I think the logic here is that he is not American. So he had to compete against the Koreans for invite spots. And its pretty easy to argue that they are better than him. The strange thing though is that Targa was invited.
On April 12 2013 15:54 Radicalness wrote: No Demuslim and qxc in NA is an epic fail. Especially for Demu.
The lack of logic in not inviting Demu is astounding. Oh well
I think the logic here is that he is not American. So he had to compete against the Koreans for invite spots. And its pretty easy to argue that they are better than him. The strange thing though is that Targa was invited.
NA: Hopefully it's a temporary issue on who is/who isn't in the premier league, since like GSL the worst performers will be replaced over time. I realize it sucks to not be part of the 1st season if you get stuck on a korean in the open bracket, but fortunately there are more tournaments to enter while waiting for the next chance.
Why would they invite so many players in EU nad NA? Would be much more interesting to have more qualifiers. If the big names wants a spot they should earn it. Hopefully, with the GSL system, many of them will fall quickly to Challenger and then to Qualifier league again. That's better that those tournaments that invites the same players over and over again.
EPT
. Guys like idra will always get auto invited no matter how bad it seems..
![[image loading]](http://imageshack.us/a/img560/6681/wcspicks.jpg)
UK and 
Finland. Hope to see some in the final roster.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/cNL4Khp.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2Zo7gMo.jpg)
