On April 12 2013 01:11 Zygno wrote: To count Demuslim as a non NA-player is pretty dumb, because he's been living in the US for about one year or so
In that case they probably would have to count Polt and Violet NA players too... and perhaps JYP/Puma still have the same sort of visas Demuslim has or whatever paperwork the "NA-player" definiton has to be based upon.
Well, but he is actually really living there. Puma/JYP both live in Korea and were just a short amount of time in the US. Not sure about Violet and Polt. Also Demuslim has been playing purely one the NA-Server in the last few seasons and is constantly top 3, every season.
Unless teams have GPS trackers logging their movement, there is no solid basis to claim who has been where for how long. And imagine the outcry when the NA ladder was a significant factor of inviting people.
Demuslim just got screwed by the system that blizzard deemed "least bad" ( all invitation based systems are bad in my book). In addition of complaining about it emotionally people should at least add a rational alternative.
Im sad that he didnt make it, but i cannot think of any other invitation system that would not create even more drama.
It's pretty easy to determine residencies. Just show a copy of a lease/utility bill, etc. That's how it's done for every local legal entity in the U.S. I'm sure Polt has a lease for an apartment, and I'm guessing EG has some documentation showing that Demuslim's residency is at the EG lair.
We dont know that for sure, there might be similar documentation for lot of people who visit US often for the weekend tournaments.
A signed lease or utility bill is the standard documentation for residency in every single county/parish in the United States. If a Korean has a utility bill or a signed lease while staying in Korea, then they are wasting a whole bunch of money.
On April 12 2013 01:11 Zygno wrote: To count Demuslim as a non NA-player is pretty dumb, because he's been living in the US for about one year or so
In that case they probably would have to count Polt and Violet NA players too... and perhaps JYP/Puma still have the same sort of visas Demuslim has or whatever paperwork the "NA-player" definiton has to be based upon.
Well, but he is actually really living there. Puma/JYP both live in Korea and were just a short amount of time in the US. Not sure about Violet and Polt. Also Demuslim has been playing purely one the NA-Server in the last few seasons and is constantly top 3, every season.
Unless teams have GPS trackers logging their movement, there is no solid basis to claim who has been where for how long. And imagine the outcry when the NA ladder was a significant factor of inviting people.
Demuslim just got screwed by the system that blizzard deemed "least bad" ( all invitation based systems are bad in my book). In addition of complaining about it emotionally people should at least add a rational alternative.
Im sad that he didnt make it, but i cannot think of any other invitation system that would not create even more drama.
It's pretty easy to determine residencies. Just show a copy of a lease/utility bill, etc. That's how it's done for every local legal entity in the U.S. I'm sure Polt has a lease for an apartment, and I'm guessing EG has some documentation showing that Demuslim's residency is at the EG lair.
We dont know that for sure, there might be similar documentation for lot of people who visit US often for the weekend tournaments.
A signed lease or utility bill is the standard documentation for residency in every single county/parish in the United States. If a Korean has a utility bill or a signed lease while staying in Korea, then they are wasting a whole bunch of money.
Also, how do people get utility bills and leases when they visit the US for a weekend? Is there some weird gray market for these documents that I am not aware of? What is the going rate for a forged comcast bill?
WCS is really a clusterfuck. Too many deserving people passed over. It kinda sucks that koreans who switched over will automatically get an invite while ostojiy is passed over
On April 11 2013 09:03 Thrill wrote: Why are people ***SHOCKED!!!*** demuslim didn't get an invite? Guys, wtf... he's completely unaccomplished at LAN and the qualifier is actually online, if he's so good at online play, let him prove it and earn an invite.
There is this thing called Liquipedia, which is above you. If you click on it, you will see that he beat Neastea an MGL and placed highly WCS EU. He is also number 1 on the NA server right now. Now lets take like HELLOKITTY, who has won or qualified for NOTHING and is not number one of the NA ladder. Who would receive an invite?
Hellokitty places 5th at WCS USA thats why he probably get invited for that accomplishment. Also 5th place Illusion got a slot. daisuki out for known reasons and Insur must have turned it down?
Demuslim has one RO8 result in the last year as a top result and was 2nd in UK. Thats the best result and counting as a foreigner in NA, it makes absolute sense he gets no seed. Ziktomini UK #1 didnt get invite to EU even, so DeMuslim would not get it either to that area.
One questionable is TLO for me, he didnt place well in german WCS.. he has 3 consistent top8 finishes though in the past half a year. Or Dimaga who didnt make national finals at all last year. If any, should have been Happy for invite.
On April 12 2013 01:11 Zygno wrote: To count Demuslim as a non NA-player is pretty dumb, because he's been living in the US for about one year or so
In that case they probably would have to count Polt and Violet NA players too... and perhaps JYP/Puma still have the same sort of visas Demuslim has or whatever paperwork the "NA-player" definiton has to be based upon.
Well, but he is actually really living there. Puma/JYP both live in Korea and were just a short amount of time in the US. Not sure about Violet and Polt. Also Demuslim has been playing purely one the NA-Server in the last few seasons and is constantly top 3, every season.
Unless teams have GPS trackers logging their movement, there is no solid basis to claim who has been where for how long. And imagine the outcry when the NA ladder was a significant factor of inviting people.
Demuslim just got screwed by the system that blizzard deemed "least bad" ( all invitation based systems are bad in my book). In addition of complaining about it emotionally people should at least add a rational alternative.
Im sad that he didnt make it, but i cannot think of any other invitation system that would not create even more drama.
It's pretty easy to determine residencies. Just show a copy of a lease/utility bill, etc. That's how it's done for every local legal entity in the U.S. I'm sure Polt has a lease for an apartment, and I'm guessing EG has some documentation showing that Demuslim's residency is at the EG lair.
We dont know that for sure, there might be similar documentation for lot of people who visit US often for the weekend tournaments.
A signed lease or utility bill is the standard documentation for residency in every single county/parish in the United States. If a Korean has a utility bill or a signed lease while staying in Korea, then they are wasting a whole bunch of money.
Also, how do people get utility bills and leases when they visit the US for a weekend? Is there some weird gray market for these documents that I am not aware of? What is the going rate for a forged comcast bill?
Well if we go by utility bills, then demuslim does not qualify for invitaiton i dont think he any of those.
But yes, after this discussion i somewhat agree - it could have been possible to make up a system where only demuslim, stephano, polt and violet and perhaps few more could have gotten into the "NA resident" invite list - without people getting too angry about seeing EU/KR flags in a list of players invited from NA...
On April 12 2013 01:11 Zygno wrote: To count Demuslim as a non NA-player is pretty dumb, because he's been living in the US for about one year or so
In that case they probably would have to count Polt and Violet NA players too... and perhaps JYP/Puma still have the same sort of visas Demuslim has or whatever paperwork the "NA-player" definiton has to be based upon.
Well, but he is actually really living there. Puma/JYP both live in Korea and were just a short amount of time in the US. Not sure about Violet and Polt. Also Demuslim has been playing purely one the NA-Server in the last few seasons and is constantly top 3, every season.
Unless teams have GPS trackers logging their movement, there is no solid basis to claim who has been where for how long. And imagine the outcry when the NA ladder was a significant factor of inviting people.
Demuslim just got screwed by the system that blizzard deemed "least bad" ( all invitation based systems are bad in my book). In addition of complaining about it emotionally people should at least add a rational alternative.
Im sad that he didnt make it, but i cannot think of any other invitation system that would not create even more drama.
It's pretty easy to determine residencies. Just show a copy of a lease/utility bill, etc. That's how it's done for every local legal entity in the U.S. I'm sure Polt has a lease for an apartment, and I'm guessing EG has some documentation showing that Demuslim's residency is at the EG lair.
We dont know that for sure, there might be similar documentation for lot of people who visit US often for the weekend tournaments.
A signed lease or utility bill is the standard documentation for residency in every single county/parish in the United States. If a Korean has a utility bill or a signed lease while staying in Korea, then they are wasting a whole bunch of money.
Also, how do people get utility bills and leases when they visit the US for a weekend? Is there some weird gray market for these documents that I am not aware of? What is the going rate for a forged comcast bill?
Well if we go by utility bills, then demuslim does not qualify for invitaiton i dont think he any of those.
But yes, after this discussion i somewhat agree - it could have been possible to make up a system where only demuslim, stephano, polt and violet and perhaps few more could have gotten into the "NA resident" invite list - without people getting too angry about seeing EU/KR flags in a list of players invited from NA...
If EG, Axiom, Quantic, and Liquid moved all of their Koreans to America and set up American teamhouses to qualify for NA residency, I don't think anyone should be angry. If anything that should be encouraged because you just increased the skill level of the continent and the NA ladder. People are upset because if Koreans live and train in Korea and just fly in for the "American" tournament, then actual people who live in NA don't have a chance to hit them on the ladder and get good practice.
On April 12 2013 03:04 Grettin wrote: Seems to me that even EGs CEO (Alex Garfield) doesn't know why DeMuslim didn't get an invite. Interesting to hear (hopefully) back from Sundance.
Good, our efforts continue. If they don't want to tell us the system that invites were give, I'm going to shamelessly shill for my favorite players. Plus my girlfriend was really bummed he didn't get an invite.
It's also funny how the NA scene *BEGS* for invites. And the EU guys sign up in huge numbers for their qualifiers instead; 430 with 2,5 days to go; that is already more than GSL qualifers.
Difference in gaming culture much?
3 americans spotted though on EU and only 1 korean. Damned they taking our spaces! :D
On April 12 2013 03:30 TumNarDok wrote: It's also funny how the NA scene *BEGS* for invites. And the EU guys sign up in huge numbers for their qualifiers instead; 430 with 2,5 days to go; that is already more than GSL qualifers.
Difference in gaming culture much?
3 americans spotted though on EU and only 1 korean. Damned they taking our spaces! :D
There are many different things going on here.
First, the NA qualifiers will have the entire Axiom, Korean EG, and Korean Liquid teams entering them. That's very different from the EU qualifiers. I'm sure if the EU had a proleague team and a GSTL team entering its qualifier, the EU players would also want invites into the EU regionals.
Second, the EU invites make sense. There really aren't glaring omissions or snubs on that list. It's almost like someone did research into the 24 players who best represent the top of the skill level for the EU scene. However, we have no idea who came up with the NA invite list because it leaves off key members of the NA scene like Demuslim.
On April 12 2013 03:30 TumNarDok wrote: It's also funny how the NA scene *BEGS* for invites. And the EU guys sign up in huge numbers for their qualifiers instead; 430 with 2,5 days to go; that is already more than GSL qualifers.
Difference in gaming culture much?
3 americans spotted though on EU and only 1 korean. Damned they taking our spaces! :D
Can you please share link to qualifiers ? I cant find them.
On April 12 2013 03:30 TumNarDok wrote: It's also funny how the NA scene *BEGS* for invites. And the EU guys sign up in huge numbers for their qualifiers instead; 430 with 2,5 days to go; that is already more than GSL qualifers.
Difference in gaming culture much?
3 americans spotted though on EU and only 1 korean. Damned they taking our spaces! :D
In reference to how many people have signed up: Correct me if I'm wrong, but qualifiers for EU are also free, no?
On April 12 2013 03:30 TumNarDok wrote: It's also funny how the NA scene *BEGS* for invites. And the EU guys sign up in huge numbers for their qualifiers instead; 430 with 2,5 days to go; that is already more than GSL qualifers.
Difference in gaming culture much?
3 americans spotted though on EU and only 1 korean. Damned they taking our spaces! :D
But the players that were not invited aren't begging for anything and they are willing to compete in the qualifiers. However, there are a group of fans for some players that are annoyed with the invite process and the system used to invite the players. If you go to Sundance's twitter, he just admitted that Demuslim was considered to be EU for the invite process, but selected NA as his region. So basically, they considered for an invite he didn't even sign up for. That's not begging, that's the fan basing telling the organizer "Your staff can't do math, please check again"
You are right that the NA gaming culture does suck a little in NA. There are some people whining about stupid stuff like $20 fees, when Magic tournaments have a $15 by in. Through, I am sure having the same number of Korean players entering the EU scene would the wind out of some people's sails.
On April 12 2013 03:30 TumNarDok wrote: It's also funny how the NA scene *BEGS* for invites. And the EU guys sign up in huge numbers for their qualifiers instead; 430 with 2,5 days to go; that is already more than GSL qualifers.
Difference in gaming culture much?
3 americans spotted though on EU and only 1 korean. Damned they taking our spaces! :D
Can you please share link to qualifiers ? I cant find them.
On April 12 2013 03:30 TumNarDok wrote: It's also funny how the NA scene *BEGS* for invites. And the EU guys sign up in huge numbers for their qualifiers instead; 430 with 2,5 days to go; that is already more than GSL qualifers.
Difference in gaming culture much?
3 americans spotted though on EU and only 1 korean. Damned they taking our spaces! :D
That's why all the Koreans came to WCS-A. They realize the american scene is extremely weak, and they stand to gain the most by competing here. Plus, it's probably closer to come to the west coast, than to go to Europe.
On April 12 2013 03:30 TumNarDok wrote: It's also funny how the NA scene *BEGS* for invites. And the EU guys sign up in huge numbers for their qualifiers instead; 430 with 2,5 days to go; that is already more than GSL qualifers.
Difference in gaming culture much?
3 americans spotted though on EU and only 1 korean. Damned they taking our spaces! :D
If you go to Sundance's twitter, he just admitted that Demuslim was considered to be EU for the invite process, but selected NA as his region.
I don't have a problem with this. Demu is from the EU so was in consideration for the 8 non NA spots like polt/violet, etc. Under those conditions, demu's results don't stack up to the other 8. Good guy sundance investigates and gives reasonable explanation.
Sure it sucks for demu, but it's the correct call. Otherwise you have to give the same treatment to someone like Polt living in the US and have him take an NA seed too, instead of 1 of the 8 global seeds.
On April 12 2013 03:30 TumNarDok wrote: It's also funny how the NA scene *BEGS* for invites. And the EU guys sign up in huge numbers for their qualifiers instead; 430 with 2,5 days to go; that is already more than GSL qualifers.
Difference in gaming culture much?
3 americans spotted though on EU and only 1 korean. Damned they taking our spaces! :D
If you go to Sundance's twitter, he just admitted that Demuslim was considered to be EU for the invite process, but selected NA as his region.
I don't have a problem with this. Demu is from the EU so was in consideration for the 8 non NA spots like polt/violet, etc. Under those conditions, demu's results don't stack up to the other 8. Good guy sundance investigates and gives reasonable explanation.
Sure it sucks for demu, but it's the correct call. Otherwise you have to give the same treatment to someone like Polt living in the US and have him take an NA seed too, instead of 1 of the 8 global seeds.
They could have at least explained this to him so that he could make a useful decision before entering NA.
Also, Polt should get an NA spot. He lives and practices in NA, why shouldn't he get a spot reserved for someone who lives and practices in NA? If Stephano was still in Code S, would people be complaining that he took away a spot of a Korean?
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2Zo7gMo.jpg)
