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"Liquid Rising" Documentary - Page 26

Forum Index > News
1314 CommentsPost a Reply
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MattSC2
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom27 Posts
June 22 2012 22:22 GMT
#501
Stunning. A great display of the family that TL really is - certainly gave me that warm and fuzzy feeling!

Congratulations to all involved... gg!
RageBot
Profile Joined November 2010
Israel1530 Posts
June 22 2012 22:22 GMT
#502
On June 23 2012 07:18 vanTuni wrote:
I have to agree with what some people wrote. While I enjoyed watching this, I expected more than a series of interviews. While watching it I was always kind of waiting for the moment when the movie would get past the point where it introduces player after player. But then the movie was over.

If this was imdb, I would rate is 4/10.


This.
I seriously don't even know what's the point of this movie to be introduced as a movie.
Full.tilt
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United Kingdom1709 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-22 22:30:30
June 22 2012 22:22 GMT
#503
Great way to spend an hour and a half.

My only criticisms are related to my expectations not being met (and audio compression issues affecting sound levels), no real timeline running through it and the history of TL being crammed into those funky subtitles in the first few minutes, but if the director is happy that this was how he wanted it than I guess it's a success and that's great!

Looking forward to EG's next!
Aim Here
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Scotland672 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-22 22:24:45
June 22 2012 22:24 GMT
#504
On June 23 2012 07:14 Za7oX wrote:
It's about TEAM LIQUID.

Wait until one of the doco's about SC2 comes out like Starnation or w/e.

Its not like when the Tastosis one comes out they will talk about how the meta game changed in zvt. It is about the people not the game.


Well yes, that's what I said.

This film is about people who play Starcraft all day long - it's why they're there, it's why they're a team, and it's why these people are interesting, and it's why thousands of people cheer for them and it's why you watched the documentary.

And this film as well as not being about Starcraft itself, is also not about how Jinro plays Starcraft, or about Haypro plays Starcraft or whatever. Or even about, as one example, the rise and fall of Jinro in the GSL, which is surely one very interesting narrative that could have been explored, rather than merely mentioned a couple of times.

You have to pretty much know all the material, interesting, facts about these guys before you even start to watch this documentary, so the appeal of it is necessarily very, very, limited.
dontPanic_
Profile Joined June 2012
Austria5 Posts
June 22 2012 22:24 GMT
#505
great, i really love it
interviews, general structure, motiongraphics, ...

all-in-all a great success
year of liquid!
Schelim
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Austria11528 Posts
June 22 2012 22:24 GMT
#506
yeah in the beginning i thought they were gonna do a short introduction of each player and then get into the REAL part of the movie, but that real part never came
TY <3 Cure <3 Inno <3 Special <3
JerKy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (South)3013 Posts
June 22 2012 22:25 GMT
#507
Just finished watching it
The ending... I lol'd
Jessica Alba <3
You can type "StarCraft" with just your left hand.
Jaeger
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1150 Posts
June 22 2012 22:25 GMT
#508
Krukar doing great work as always.
https://www.dotabuff.com/players/8137911
chambertin
Profile Joined August 2011
United States1704 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-22 22:30:04
June 22 2012 22:27 GMT
#509
To those above talking about the lack of reference to specific playstyle and more about the game, I have this to say: That is not the heart of Teamliquid, that is not the heart of reddit/r/starcraft, that is not at the heart of the team. This is not LG_IM, this is not EG, this is not TSL. What it is, is community, it is about the people. While I have many criticisms of the doc. (below), the idea that it does not focus enough on the players' specific gameplay is not one of them. It instead gives an insight into something much more important to myself and I imagine many other viewers; that of the players' personalities and characters that might not shine through so much in their gameplay. After all, if you wish to understand more about that, there are tons of reference materials out their. VODs form many tourneys and of course the hours and hours of streaming they have done.

How could one focus so heavily on the story of Jinro? This is a story of teamliquid not of one player. IMHO, the doc. was and should be more concerned with their personal interactions and team atmosphere than the players' themselves. The doc does have time restrictions, of course, and in its span it portrays a little of that magic that is teamliquid's tight knit and friendly atmosphere. It makes one wish that you could be part of it and share. This is an incredible and important thing to engender in this case, because of course you can. This team we have is not just part of the TL.net community, it is party to all of us, and we are family on here. It is not about the players in essence... it is not about Ret's crazy macro, HerO's micro or even Jinro's incredible results early on in Korea... it is about Jonathan Walsh modding on TL, it's about Song Hyeon Deok being cute, Shawn Simon being nice, and Victor Gossens understanding what it is that makes his shared brand of E-Sports as it is now, special, familial, wlecoming and magical. Despite what petty flaws I can pick out of this documentary, it manages to get at what is special about E-Sports as a whole right now. E-Sports is not the freakout that you have when you see Nestea make a godly move, it's when you hear Tastosis freaking out. It's seeing MC do some crazy ceremony to the chants of thousands. It's so much more... I can't even continue.

It's a beautiful game, but the game is... just a game. As with everything else in this world, it's the people that make things beautiful. This film helps to capture some of that.

edit: typos ^^
"I know one thing, that I know nothing" - Socrates?
KadaverBB
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany25657 Posts
June 22 2012 22:27 GMT
#510
Really really liked it

I actually feel kinda bad for donating only 5 dollars
I wish i had more money to spare right now, but i have to keep some of it back so i can buy the hoodie when it comes out^^
AdministratorLaws change depending on who's making them, but justice is justice
GreyKnight
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4720 Posts
June 22 2012 22:27 GMT
#511
i also want to see alot of the unused footage, that would make everyone happy....
Kaitokid
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Germany1327 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-22 22:46:44
June 22 2012 22:27 GMT
#512
I was kind of disappointed after watching it. Everything just felt too "predictable". It was basically something like "get to know the players" but at the same time pretty much 95% of what they said was nothing new because of the exposure and attention the Liquid members get in general. When they were talking about the player currently in the spotlight pretty much everyone said kind of the same just with different words, it got boring after a while. I think HuK and maybe Nazgul were the only ones who described the players in a more than just extremely general way. What I remembered from the first couple of interivews was yea Sheth is a super nice guy and the most mannered player in the Starcraft community, HayprO is really funny.. TLO is a creative player but his injury holds him back.. it was just well... too superficial for me. Also the lack of actual StarCraft content was disappointing aswell as someone else already pointed out.

I think the TL image is kinda going in a too extreme way and this documentary proved it imo. This idea of TL being a super nice family and stuff was mainly created by TL itself and not the StarCraft community I feel. I am not sure if I want to hear more often that they are all friends with each other in TL and that Sheth is a very nice guy... I am sure that players in other teams are good friends or even best friends aswell but they don't show it that openly. After a while it just feels like a marketing move more so than anything else. Especially considering a good chunk of the players on Liquid are mainly progamers because of their personality and popularity.

That all being said I have to say Ret is even more awesome than I thought he was
sperY
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Serbia444 Posts
June 22 2012 22:27 GMT
#513
I think this came out exactly as it should have (imo at least).
Its about TeamLiquid and TeamLiquid is about players, every single one of them.

Really enjoyed watching and getting to know every player a bit better
Hakker
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1360 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-22 22:30:17
June 22 2012 22:29 GMT
#514
On June 23 2012 07:19 Krukar wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 23 2012 06:53 TeslasPigeon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 23 2012 05:58 [17]Purple wrote:

It is supposed to be a documentary about the players not a movie with a climax.


I disagree, there have been many documentaries that make for amazing movies. A few examples are: Dear Zachary, Hearts of Darkness, or Bus 174. You have to remember that documentaries are suppose to tell a story, Liquid Rising had none. These are fluff pieces that could be intertwined into any SC2 media.

Let's take a recent documentary, Exit Through the Gift Shop. The reason why this documentary is so critically acclaimed is that the story is very engrossing. The rise of an overnight street artist (Thierry Guetta) buying his way into fame and fortune from the misinterpreted advice that he received from his idol (Banksy). This is done through non traditional means of interview various street artists asking their opinions and experiences with Thierry while building upon the overall story, which the audience doesn't know of, until 2/3s of the way into the documentary. There is a high level of emotional attachment to the story and the payoff is worth watching the film.

Documentaries are not a series of interviews, that is a news segment. Documentaries are suppose to convey reality through the means of a story.

Liquid Rising is just a series of very specific interviews dealing about a very distinct subject. While there is nothing wrong with this if it is done in small segments, this type of format fails to draw in the audience after a set amount of time.

A good example of this is during the Huk segment where at 1:14:50 they talk about the EG-Liquid rivalry. As someone who has only been following the scene for a few months, I don't know anything of this. Why should I believe it? Or better, why should I care? There was nothing in the documentary that foreshadow this. Am I suppose to just accept it because some people say so? This medium is video, you're also suppose to show your audience what you want them to feel not explicitly state them through a series of basic interviews. It just wasn't done well.

There could of been so much that could of been done if you want to introduce an emotional element. Like Liquids dominance through the beta and first year of the game, but as SC2 became more developed they slowly slipped out of the spotlight as their players fell from the pillars where they once stood. It could of ended with Liquid players going to Korea to recapture their past glory.

Take Jinro, a player who has an amazing story line and the director/creator completely missed it. Here you have a player that WAS one of the best during the early years. He had the experience and results to prove it. He was the foreigner hope in the GSL. He had amazing games and captivated whole rooms of people. He has the dedication of a true Olympian athlete. Then he slowly started to not make top finishes as the new wave of professionals came. Yet he still practices, he still has the mind of a champion. I mean fuck, he is still in Korea giving everything he has at a game he loves. This is a classic story line of a past champion that is still trying to make it with the new wave of talent. You can go in many different directions. You can make it depressing and talk about how as a once accomplished professional, he should step down now before he further embarrasses himself. Or you could go in a different route and talk about a player who was at the top and still continues to strive for the top, despite of the current wave of the top contenders.

At the end of the film they are talking about how they foresee their futures, as someone who is into the scene I care about these people. I want them to succeed. But as a viewer of the film, I feel like I know none of them and aren't interesting in their storylines because the film failed to provide any. Contrast this with a film like Fistful of Quarters where the documentary sets clears good versus bad between the characters

There was just so much potential to make a great compelling story, but fails so hard. This is depressing to see, on Reddit the creator said he has 700 gigs of footage. That could either be 20-45 hours of footage depending on the quality. If this is the best attempt, a series of interviewers. Then most of the footage is b rolls at various tournaments failing to capture anything of interest. As someone who is trying to make it in new media production, I find it incredibly sad that someone was given the opportunity to do this and squandered it.


You bring up several interesting points which are well thought out, so I'll do my best to defend the picture and my thought process.

Exit through the gift shop is a mockumentary. It hardly counts as a documentary, it's a well crafted story in the style of a documentary. There is debate whether it's real or not. You say documentaries are meant to convey reality, yet you bring up Exit through the gift shop, which does a great job of completely blurring reality.

At it's core documentaries are a series of interviews. That's what makes a documentary. Attempting to document an event. What you described, showing their dominance in beta now recapturing their glory is a huge exaggeration of the truth. Let's say I did decide to go that route, how would I tell that story? As I wasn't around then the only option I have is through talking head interviews, which you are against. And why speak of their time in beta, that's 2 years ago? I wanted to capture their personalities because finding about a player is a lot more interesting than a small achievement 2 years ago.

Your idea to focus on Jinro is a great idea for a Jinro themed documentary. It would hardly work in a documentary about a 9 man team.

You mention Fistful of Quarters (one of my favourite documentaries), that it painted a clear good vs evil story line. Well that movie has also been exaggerated, the relationship between Billy Mitchell and Stevie Wiebe was not that hostile. The film maker made it seem like that by distorting the truth, something I did not do.

If you were looking for some kind of epic give one for the gipper monologue followed by a shot of a Liquid player raising a trophy amongst a crowd of fans, that's now what happened. I didn't distort the story. I filmed what happened and put it together. From the start I said this is a piece for Team Liquid fans about a team. Something that the fans could enjoy and something that people who are following the scene can enjoy. Those people were the target audience and it looks like they are enjoying it.


Speaking as a member of the target audience, I thought it was a fun, entertaining documentary, but it left me wanting more. I really wish you had gone more in depth into the players, their personalites and their stories. All I can really take away from this as a fan is that 9 people that I knew were funny and talented at Starcaft are funny and talented at Starcraft.
onlinerobbe
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany547 Posts
June 22 2012 22:31 GMT
#515
On June 23 2012 07:09 Gosi wrote:
[image loading]

man you beat me to it :D
ohayo- on afk-op teamliquid | tuturuuuu! mayushi desu - 유인나, 이지은 사랑 (멍 지효 <3 )
Loddigesia
Profile Joined April 2010
247 Posts
June 22 2012 22:32 GMT
#516
This is pretty good. Made me laugh and cry.
<3 TL
aka gorfou
MagmaPunch
Profile Joined November 2011
Bulgaria536 Posts
June 22 2012 22:32 GMT
#517
Wow, that movie... It was simply incredible and inspirational. Pure perfection.

Btw, does anybody know what the name of the song played during Huk's intro is ?
Aut viam inveniam, aut faciam.
laoji
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom382 Posts
June 22 2012 22:32 GMT
#518
Learning about the origin of Sheth's name makes me love the guy even more.

Loved it, Good Job everyone involved!
Affection is responsible for nine-tenths of whatever solid and durable happiness there is in our lives.- C. S. Lewis
rave[wcr]
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1166 Posts
June 22 2012 22:33 GMT
#519
liked it. i hope the star nation documentary is gonna be better than this tho.
OPL3SA2
Profile Joined April 2011
United States378 Posts
June 22 2012 22:33 GMT
#520
Documentaries usually have some sort of narrative, either in the form of a narrarator or a more rigid storyline. This was a series of interviews, and while I enjoyed it, it doesn't tell much of a story.
Playoffs? You're talking about playoffs?
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