EPT"Liquid Rising" Documentary - Page 25
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Ercster
United States603 Posts
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dudecrush
Canada418 Posts
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Parametric
Canada1261 Posts
That ending was perfect. Loved watching it. | ||
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Enki
United States2548 Posts
On June 23 2012 06:53 TeslasPigeon wrote: I disagree, there have been many documentaries that make for amazing movies. A few examples are: Dear Zachary, Hearts of Darkness, or Bus 174. You have to remember that documentaries are suppose to tell a story, Liquid Rising had none. These are fluff pieces that could be intertwined into any SC2 media. Let's take a recent documentary, Exit Through the Gift Shop. The reason why this documentary is so critically acclaimed is that the story is very engrossing. The rise of an overnight street artist (Thierry Guetta) buying his way into fame and fortune from the misinterpreted advice that he received from his idol (Banksy). This is done through non traditional means of interview various street artists asking their opinions and experiences with Thierry while building upon the overall story, which the audience doesn't know of, until 2/3s of the way into the documentary. There is a high level of emotional attachment to the story and the payoff is worth watching the film. Documentaries are not a series of interviews, that is a news segment. Documentaries are suppose to convey reality through the means of a story. Liquid Rising is just a series of very specific interviews dealing about a very distinct subject. While there is nothing wrong with this if it is done in small segments, this type of format fails to draw in the audience after a set amount of time. A good example of this is during the Huk segment where at 1:14:50 they talk about the EG-Liquid rivalry. As someone who has only been following the scene for a few months, I don't know anything of this. Why should I believe it? Or better, why should I care? There was nothing in the documentary that foreshadow this. Am I suppose to just accept it because some people say so? This medium is video, you're also suppose to show your audience what you want them to feel not explicitly state them through a series of basic interviews. It just wasn't done well. There could of been so much that could of been done if you want to introduce an emotional element. Like Liquids dominance through the beta and first year of the game, but as SC2 became more developed they slowly slipped out of the spotlight as their players fell from the pillars where they once stood. It could of ended with Liquid players going to Korea to recapture their past glory. Take Jinro, a player who has an amazing story line and the director/creator completely missed it. Here you have a player that WAS one of the best during the early years. He had the experience and results to prove it. He was the foreigner hope in the GSL. He had amazing games and captivated whole rooms of people. He has the dedication of a true Olympian athlete. Then he slowly started to not make top finishes as the new wave of professionals came. Yet he still practices, he still has the mind of a champion. I mean fuck, he is still in Korea giving everything he has at a game he loves. This is a classic story line of a past champion that is still trying to make it with the new wave of talent. You can go in many different directions. You can make it depressing and talk about how as a once accomplished professional, he should step down now before he further embarrasses himself. Or you could go in a different route and talk about a player who was at the top and still continues to strive for the top, despite of the current wave of the top contenders. At the end of the film they are talking about how they foresee their futures, as someone who is into the scene I care about these people. I want them to succeed. But as a viewer of the film, I feel like I know none of them and aren't interesting in their storylines because the film failed to provide any. Contrast this with a film like Fistful of Quarters where the documentary sets clears good versus bad between the characters There was just so much potential to make a great compelling story, but fails so hard. This is depressing to see, on Reddit the creator said he has 700 gigs of footage. That could either be 20-45 hours of footage depending on the quality. If this is the best attempt, a series of interviewers. Then most of the footage is b rolls at various tournaments failing to capture anything of interest. As someone who is trying to make it in new media production, I find it incredibly sad that someone was given the opportunity to do this and squandered it. To be fair, they expect the people watching it to have been following SC2 for awhile. I mean, this is on a starcraft site after all, i'm sure most people here have been playing SC2 since beta let alone 3 months or so. I feel like this wasn't meant to cater to the newcomers which argueably could have been a bad choice when making it. Anyways, it felt like just a bunch of interviews strung together. I did learn some new things about the players but I was hoping to find out more about the history, more than just a timeline at the beginning anyways. I also wanted to learn more about Jinro especially. This is a guy who pretty much dropped out of HS for starcraft (or so I presume, we don't know why really) and when SC2 came around, he dropped everything to go to Korea and was one of the first foreigner hopes we had. I really wish I could have found out more about his motivations and how that all came to be. | ||
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kinglemon
Germany199 Posts
On June 23 2012 06:53 TeslasPigeon wrote: I disagree, there have been many documentaries that make for amazing movies. A few examples are: Dear Zachary, Hearts of Darkness, or Bus 174. You have to remember that documentaries are suppose to tell a story, Liquid Rising had none. These are fluff pieces that could be intertwined into any SC2 media. Let's take a recent documentary, Exit Through the Gift Shop. The reason why this documentary is so critically acclaimed is that the story is very engrossing. The rise of an overnight street artist (Thierry Guetta) buying his way into fame and fortune from the misinterpreted advice that he received from his idol (Banksy). This is done through non traditional means of interview various street artists asking their opinions and experiences with Thierry while building upon the overall story, which the audience doesn't know of, until 2/3s of the way into the documentary. There is a high level of emotional attachment to the story and the payoff is worth watching the film. Documentaries are not a series of interviews, that is a news segment. Documentaries are suppose to convey reality through the means of a story. Liquid Rising is just a series of very specific interviews dealing about a very distinct subject. While there is nothing wrong with this if it is done in small segments, this type of format fails to draw in the audience after a set amount of time. A good example of this is during the Huk segment where at 1:14:50 they talk about the EG-Liquid rivalry. As someone who has only been following the scene for a few months, I don't know anything of this. Why should I believe it? Or better, why should I care? There was nothing in the documentary that foreshadow this. Am I suppose to just accept it because some people say so? This medium is video, you're also suppose to show your audience what you want them to feel not explicitly state them through a series of basic interviews. It just wasn't done well. There could of been so much that could of been done if you want to introduce an emotional element. Like Liquids dominance through the beta and first year of the game, but as SC2 became more developed they slowly slipped out of the spotlight as their players fell from the pillars where they once stood. It could of ended with Liquid players going to Korea to recapture their past glory. Take Jinro, a player who has an amazing story line and the director/creator completely missed it. Here you have a player that WAS one of the best during the early years. He had the experience and results to prove it. He was the foreigner hope in the GSL. He had amazing games and captivated whole rooms of people. He has the dedication of a true Olympian athlete. Then he slowly started to not make top finishes as the new wave of professionals came. Yet he still practices, he still has the mind of a champion. I mean fuck, he is still in Korea giving everything he has at a game he loves. This is a classic story line of a past champion that is still trying to make it with the new wave of talent. You can go in many different directions. You can make it depressing and talk about how as a once accomplished professional, he should step down now before he further embarrasses himself. Or you could go in a different route and talk about a player who was at the top and still continues to strive for the top, despite of the current wave of the top contenders. At the end of the film they are talking about how they foresee their futures, as someone who is into the scene I care about these people. I want them to succeed. But as a viewer of the film, I feel like I know none of them and aren't interesting in their storylines because the film failed to provide any. Contrast this with a film like Fistful of Quarters where the documentary sets clears good versus bad between the characters There was just so much potential to make a great compelling story, but fails so hard. This is depressing to see, on Reddit the creator said he has 700 gigs of footage. That could either be 20-45 hours of footage depending on the quality. If this is the best attempt, a series of interviewers. Then most of the footage is b rolls at various tournaments failing to capture anything of interest. As someone who is trying to make it in new media production, I find it incredibly sad that someone was given the opportunity to do this and squandered it. really good critique. the movie should be renamed in liquid interviewed. directly at the beginning i knew it was gonna be wrong. no tension at all, and then a intro which basically was just an fact stater ? this is something that comes after the intro. | ||
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dibban
Sweden1279 Posts
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Freak705
Canada231 Posts
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cavalier117
United States430 Posts
On June 23 2012 07:09 Gosi wrote: ![[image loading]](http://oi47.tinypic.com/5yaycz.jpg) omg.... mind fucked... theres a GG button on the right side of the screen | ||
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PresenceSc2
Australia4032 Posts
On June 23 2012 07:00 Aim Here wrote: Hmmm. Celebrity culture comes to the Starcraft community. I think I'll take the liberty of being more sceptical about this film than most of the people here. I've just watched the film, and what's most interesting to me is the way the makers chose what material to put in the film. Teamliquid has just published a 90-minute video about 10 guys who spend almost their entire waking lives playing Starcraft, and this film has pretty much no actual Starcraft in it. If you haven't seen the film, it's essentially a series of talking-head interviews about each member of Team Liquid in turn, interspersed with occasional bits of event footage. The interviews are mostly about the kinds of things a 14-year old girl would want to know about her favourite pop group - who's the funniest Teamliquid member, which one sleepwalks, why Sheth calls himself Sheth, that sort of thing. At the end of the day, if you saw this film and you weren't already a Starcraft fan, you'd still know next to nothing about what these guys actually DO for a living. You could almost make this a film about a counterstrike team, or a basketball team, or a boyband, just by changing a few references here and there. There's very little footage of actual Starcraft games in action, and I don't recall any discussion of what these players playstyles are like. Sure, there's some footage of Dreamhack, and GSL and MLG, but mostly stage shots and crowd scenes. You wouldn't know, say, that Jinro's tear up the GSL was because he was almost the only real macro Terran in his day, or that Ret's known for making more drones than the other guy, or about NonY's onetime fondness for phoenix builds. When the film discusses tournament results, it's just a mention of the tournaments that HuK or Hero won, or the list of players that Haypro beat in MLG Providence, before he fell to MVP. There's almost no mention of HOW anyone got their tournament results. I think (I might be wrong here) that you can watch the entire film, without finding out even that Taeja plays Terran. Hell, if I was making a film about Teamliquid, I might have gone a different route, and having a look at the business of eSports, and start poking around finding out how Teamliquid manages to raise enough money to house and feed and pay 9 guys to play Starcraft all day, while flying them around the world; and perhaps what the sponsors expect to get out of this (for instance, Starcraft fans are very Apple-hostile in my experience, yet it's an iPhone app company that sponsors Teamliquid. Go figure). Anyways this is a film about celebrity Starcraft players, aimed squarely at people who are already fans of those players. You won't learn much about Starcraft the game by watching it, so it's not really a film for non-Starcraft players. You won't learn anything about how these players play the game from watching it, so people who aren't already Teamliquid fans would still need to do the catching up on how these guys play. You won't find out much about how Teamliquid operates as a team/business/organization other than Nazgul is the team manager and HotBid is involved somehow. The film does perhaps put a face and personality to the players though, but out of all the Starcraft teams out there, Teamliquid (along with perhaps Evil Geniuses), is probably the team whose players are already the most familiar to foreign Starcraft fans. Other than feeding a bunch of content, the gist of which is already out in public, to already loyal Teamliquid fans to keep them sated, it's hard to see what purpose this film serves, as a piece of film. (Of course, as a publishing exercise, it might bring some revenue to Team Liquid and/or the filmmakers, which is fair enough!) My biggest disappointment though is in the trailer for the film. The trailer was shot with some filter applied to the footage to make the film monochrome, apart from the blue Teamliquid team shirts. It's a pretty cool and effective technique (possibly nicked from the "clearing of the Warsaw ghetto" scene in Schindler's List!). I was kindof hoping this effect would be the style of the finished film, but instead, the filmmakers just made a normal talking-heads-with-crowd-footage documentary, which is their choice, I suppose. Oh well. Just my opinion. It's about TEAM LIQUID. Wait until one of the doco's about SC2 comes out like Starnation or w/e. Its not like when the Tastosis one comes out they will talk about how the meta game changed in zvt. It is about the people not the game. | ||
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urashimakt
United States1591 Posts
On June 23 2012 04:35 Wakamex wrote: Any way to get a download link? Just paid 10 bucks but I can't watch it cus I'm about to board a plane so I can't stream. Keepvid also doesn't work. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Well, I can tell you that there's a Firefox addon called "Flash Video Downloader (Youtube Downloader) 3.6.2" that allows you to pull embedded flash content as one of several different media formats. But given the nature of the video and the delivery method (and your love for TeamLiquid, obviously), I wouldn't use it unless someone explicitly said that it was ok. There might be a reason that there's no readily available download link. I'm also really looking forward to watching this when I get a couple hours free. Thanks TL, Liquid, and Mr. Krukar! | ||
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Vaalyr
Canada16 Posts
mad love for TL <3 | ||
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Pimpmuckl
Germany528 Posts
I am pretty sure though that most of them will do really well in some period  | ||
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sureup
Norway28 Posts
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vanTuni
389 Posts
If this was imdb, I would rate is 4/10. | ||
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Render
United States249 Posts
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Krukar
Canada66 Posts
On June 23 2012 06:53 TeslasPigeon wrote: I disagree, there have been many documentaries that make for amazing movies. A few examples are: Dear Zachary, Hearts of Darkness, or Bus 174. You have to remember that documentaries are suppose to tell a story, Liquid Rising had none. These are fluff pieces that could be intertwined into any SC2 media. Let's take a recent documentary, Exit Through the Gift Shop. The reason why this documentary is so critically acclaimed is that the story is very engrossing. The rise of an overnight street artist (Thierry Guetta) buying his way into fame and fortune from the misinterpreted advice that he received from his idol (Banksy). This is done through non traditional means of interview various street artists asking their opinions and experiences with Thierry while building upon the overall story, which the audience doesn't know of, until 2/3s of the way into the documentary. There is a high level of emotional attachment to the story and the payoff is worth watching the film. Documentaries are not a series of interviews, that is a news segment. Documentaries are suppose to convey reality through the means of a story. Liquid Rising is just a series of very specific interviews dealing about a very distinct subject. While there is nothing wrong with this if it is done in small segments, this type of format fails to draw in the audience after a set amount of time. A good example of this is during the Huk segment where at 1:14:50 they talk about the EG-Liquid rivalry. As someone who has only been following the scene for a few months, I don't know anything of this. Why should I believe it? Or better, why should I care? There was nothing in the documentary that foreshadow this. Am I suppose to just accept it because some people say so? This medium is video, you're also suppose to show your audience what you want them to feel not explicitly state them through a series of basic interviews. It just wasn't done well. There could of been so much that could of been done if you want to introduce an emotional element. Like Liquids dominance through the beta and first year of the game, but as SC2 became more developed they slowly slipped out of the spotlight as their players fell from the pillars where they once stood. It could of ended with Liquid players going to Korea to recapture their past glory. Take Jinro, a player who has an amazing story line and the director/creator completely missed it. Here you have a player that WAS one of the best during the early years. He had the experience and results to prove it. He was the foreigner hope in the GSL. He had amazing games and captivated whole rooms of people. He has the dedication of a true Olympian athlete. Then he slowly started to not make top finishes as the new wave of professionals came. Yet he still practices, he still has the mind of a champion. I mean fuck, he is still in Korea giving everything he has at a game he loves. This is a classic story line of a past champion that is still trying to make it with the new wave of talent. You can go in many different directions. You can make it depressing and talk about how as a once accomplished professional, he should step down now before he further embarrasses himself. Or you could go in a different route and talk about a player who was at the top and still continues to strive for the top, despite of the current wave of the top contenders. At the end of the film they are talking about how they foresee their futures, as someone who is into the scene I care about these people. I want them to succeed. But as a viewer of the film, I feel like I know none of them and aren't interesting in their storylines because the film failed to provide any. Contrast this with a film like Fistful of Quarters where the documentary sets clears good versus bad between the characters There was just so much potential to make a great compelling story, but fails so hard. This is depressing to see, on Reddit the creator said he has 700 gigs of footage. That could either be 20-45 hours of footage depending on the quality. If this is the best attempt, a series of interviewers. Then most of the footage is b rolls at various tournaments failing to capture anything of interest. As someone who is trying to make it in new media production, I find it incredibly sad that someone was given the opportunity to do this and squandered it. You bring up several interesting points which are well thought out, so I'll do my best to defend the picture and my thought process. Exit through the gift shop is a mockumentary. It hardly counts as a documentary, it's a well crafted story in the style of a documentary. There is debate whether it's real or not. You say documentaries are meant to convey reality, yet you bring up Exit through the gift shop, which does a great job of completely blurring reality. At it's core documentaries are a series of interviews. That's what makes a documentary. Attempting to document an event. What you described, showing their dominance in beta now recapturing their glory is a huge exaggeration of the truth. Let's say I did decide to go that route, how would I tell that story? As I wasn't around then the only option I have is through talking head interviews, which you are against. And why speak of their time in beta, that's 2 years ago? I wanted to capture their personalities because finding about a player is a lot more interesting than a small achievement 2 years ago. Your idea to focus on Jinro is a great idea for a Jinro themed documentary. It would hardly work in a documentary about a 9 man team. You mention Fistful of Quarters (one of my favourite documentaries), that it painted a clear good vs evil story line. Well that movie has also been exaggerated, the relationship between Billy Mitchell and Stevie Wiebe was not that hostile. The film maker made it seem like that by distorting the truth, something I did not do. If you were looking for some kind of epic give one for the gipper monologue followed by a shot of a Liquid player raising a trophy amongst a crowd of fans, that's now what happened. I didn't distort the story. I filmed what happened and put it together. From the start I said this is a piece for Team Liquid fans about a team. Something that the fans could enjoy and something that people who are following the scene can enjoy. Those people were the target audience and it looks like they are enjoying it. | ||
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
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GreyKnight
United States4720 Posts
I think the goal of the movie was wrong to begin with. That's my opinion but that's what led the film to be so dry. They should have focused on a specific story | ||
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Vadrigar
Bulgaria2379 Posts
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DNA61289
United States665 Posts
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