EPT"Liquid Rising" Documentary - Page 24
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stew_
Canada239 Posts
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Cuce
Turkey1127 Posts
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Aim Here
Scotland672 Posts
I've just watched the film, and what's most interesting to me is the way the makers chose what material to put in the film. Teamliquid has just published a 90-minute video about 10 guys who spend almost their entire waking lives playing Starcraft, and this film has pretty much no actual Starcraft in it. If you haven't seen the film, it's essentially a series of talking-head interviews about each member of Team Liquid in turn, interspersed with occasional bits of event footage. The interviews are mostly about the kinds of things a 14-year old girl would want to know about her favourite pop group - who's the funniest Teamliquid member, which one sleepwalks, why Sheth calls himself Sheth, that sort of thing. At the end of the day, if you saw this film and you weren't already a Starcraft fan, you'd still know next to nothing about what these guys actually DO for a living. You could almost make this a film about a counterstrike team, or a basketball team, or a boyband, just by changing a few references here and there. There's very little footage of actual Starcraft games in action, and I don't recall any discussion of what these players playstyles are like. Sure, there's some footage of Dreamhack, and GSL and MLG, but mostly stage shots and crowd scenes. You wouldn't know, say, that Jinro's tear up the GSL was because he was almost the only real macro Terran in his day, or that Ret's known for making more drones than the other guy, or about NonY's onetime fondness for phoenix builds. When the film discusses tournament results, it's just a mention of the tournaments that HuK or Hero won, or the list of players that Haypro beat in MLG Providence, before he fell to MVP. There's almost no mention of HOW anyone got their tournament results. I think (I might be wrong here) that you can watch the entire film, without finding out even that Taeja plays Terran. Hell, if I was making a film about Teamliquid, I might have gone a different route, and having a look at the business of eSports, and start poking around finding out how Teamliquid manages to raise enough money to house and feed and pay 9 guys to play Starcraft all day, while flying them around the world; and perhaps what the sponsors expect to get out of this (for instance, Starcraft fans are very Apple-hostile in my experience, yet it's an iPhone app company that sponsors Teamliquid. Go figure). Anyways this is a film about celebrity Starcraft players, aimed squarely at people who are already fans of those players. You won't learn much about Starcraft the game by watching it, so it's not really a film for non-Starcraft players. You won't learn anything about how these players play the game from watching it, so people who aren't already Teamliquid fans would still need to do the catching up on how these guys play. You won't find out much about how Teamliquid operates as a team/business/organization other than Nazgul is the team manager and HotBid is involved somehow. The film does perhaps put a face and personality to the players though, but out of all the Starcraft teams out there, Teamliquid (along with perhaps Evil Geniuses), is probably the team whose players are already the most familiar to foreign Starcraft fans. Other than feeding a bunch of content, the gist of which is already out in public, to already loyal Teamliquid fans to keep them sated, it's hard to see what purpose this film serves, as a piece of film. (Of course, as a publishing exercise, it might bring some revenue to Team Liquid and/or the filmmakers, which is fair enough!) My biggest disappointment though is in the trailer for the film. The trailer was shot with some filter applied to the footage to make the film monochrome, apart from the blue Teamliquid team shirts. It's a pretty cool and effective technique (possibly nicked from the "clearing of the Warsaw ghetto" scene in Schindler's List!). I was kindof hoping this effect would be the style of the finished film, but instead, the filmmakers just made a normal talking-heads-with-crowd-footage documentary, which is their choice, I suppose. Oh well. Just my opinion. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28731 Posts
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projectChaos
154 Posts
On June 23 2012 06:53 TeslasPigeon wrote: I disagree, there have been many documentaries that make for amazing movies. A few examples are: Dear Zachary, Hearts of Darkness, or Bus 174. You have to remember that documentaries are suppose to tell a story, Liquid Rising had none. These are fluff pieces that could be intertwined into any SC2 media. Let's take a recent documentary, Exit Through the Gift Shop. The reason why this documentary is so critically acclaimed is that the story is very engrossing. The rise of an overnight street artist (Thierry Guetta) buying his way into fame and fortune from the misinterpreted advice that he received from his idol (Banksy). This is done through non traditional means of interview various street artists asking their opinions and experiences with Thierry while building upon the overall story, which the audience doesn't know of, until 2/3s of the way into the documentary. There is a high level of emotional attachment to the story and the payoff is worth watching the film. Documentaries are not a series of interviews, that is a news segment. Documentaries are suppose to convey reality through the means of a story. Liquid Rising is just a series of very specific interviews dealing about a very distinct subject. While there is nothing wrong with this if it is done in small segments, this type of format fails to draw in the audience after a set amount of time. A good example of this is during the Huk segment where at 1:14:50 they talk about the EG-Liquid rivalry. As someone who has only been following the scene for a few months, I don't know anything of this. Why should I believe it? Or better, why should I care? There was nothing in the documentary that foreshadow this. Am I suppose to just accept it because some people say so? This medium is video, you're also suppose to show your audience what you want them to feel not explicitly state them through a series of basic interviews. It just wasn't done well. There could of been so much that could of been done if you want to introduce an emotional element. Like Liquids dominance through the beta and first year of the game, but as SC2 became more developed they slowly slipped out of the spotlight as their players fell from the pillars where they once stood. It could of ended with Liquid players going to Korea to recapture their past glory. Take Jinro, a player who has an amazing story line and the director/creator completely missed it. Here you have a player that WAS one of the best during the early years. He had the experience and results to prove it. He was the foreigner hope in the GSL. He had amazing games and captivated whole rooms of people. He has the dedication of a true Olympian athlete. Then he slowly started to not make top finishes as the new wave of professionals came. Yet he still practices, he still has the mind of a champion. I mean fuck, he is still in Korea giving everything he has at a game he loves. This is a classic story line of a past champion that is still trying to make it with the new wave of talent. You can go in many different directions. You can make it depressing and talk about how as a once accomplished professional, he should step down now before he further embarrasses himself. Or you could go in a different route and talk about a player who was at the top and still continues to strive for the top, despite of the current wave of the top contenders. At the end of the film they are talking about how they foresee their futures, as someone who is into the scene I care about these people. I want them to succeed. But as a viewer of the film, I feel like I know none of them and aren't interesting in their storylines because the film failed to provide any. Contrast this with a film like Fistful of Quarters where the documentary sets clears good versus bad between the characters There was just so much potential to make a great compelling story, but fails so hard. This is depressing to see, on Reddit the creator said he has 700 gigs of footage. That could either be 20-45 hours of footage depending on the quality. If this is the best attempt, a series of interviewers. Then most of the footage is b rolls at various tournaments failing to capture anything of interest. As someone who is trying to make it in new media production, I find it incredibly sad that someone was given the opportunity to do this and squandered it. totally agreed. I was thinking similiarly while watching. This isn`t a documentary. If it`s meant to be, then - sad to say- it failed. Nevertheless it`s a positiv present for the community, but they missed a opportunity for more. | ||
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88fingers
United States3 Posts
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TheDougler
Canada8306 Posts
On June 23 2012 06:53 TeslasPigeon wrote: I disagree, there have been many documentaries that make for amazing movies. A few examples are: Dear Zachary, Hearts of Darkness, or Bus 174. You have to remember that documentaries are suppose to tell a story, Liquid Rising had none. These are fluff pieces that could be intertwined into any SC2 media. Let's take a recent documentary, Exit Through the Gift Shop. The reason why this documentary is so critically acclaimed is that the story is very engrossing. The rise of an overnight street artist (Thierry Guetta) buying his way into fame and fortune from the misinterpreted advice that he received from his idol (Banksy). This is done through non traditional means of interview various street artists asking their opinions and experiences with Thierry while building upon the overall story, which the audience doesn't know of, until 2/3s of the way into the documentary. There is a high level of emotional attachment to the story and the payoff is worth watching the film. Documentaries are not a series of interviews, that is a news segment. Documentaries are suppose to convey reality through the means of a story. Liquid Rising is just a series of very specific interviews dealing about a very distinct subject. While there is nothing wrong with this if it is done in small segments, this type of format fails to draw in the audience after a set amount of time. A good example of this is during the Huk segment where at 1:14:50 they talk about the EG-Liquid rivalry. As someone who has only been following the scene for a few months, I don't know anything of this. Why should I believe it? Or better, why should I care? There was nothing in the documentary that foreshadow this. Am I suppose to just accept it because some people say so? This medium is video, you're also suppose to show your audience what you want them to feel not explicitly state them through a series of basic interviews. It just wasn't done well. There could of been so much that could of been done if you want to introduce an emotional element. Like Liquids dominance through the beta and first year of the game, but as SC2 became more developed they slowly slipped out of the spotlight as their players fell from the pillars where they once stood. It could of ended with Liquid players going to Korea to recapture their past glory. Take Jinro, a player who has an amazing story line and the director/creator completely missed it. Here you have a player that WAS one of the best during the early years. He had the experience and results to prove it. He was the foreigner hope in the GSL. He had amazing games and captivated whole rooms of people. He has the dedication of a true Olympian athlete. Then he slowly started to not make top finishes as the new wave of professionals came. Yet he still practices, he still has the mind of a champion. I mean fuck, he is still in Korea giving everything he has at a game he loves. This is a classic story line of a past champion that is still trying to make it with the new wave of talent. You can go in many different directions. You can make it depressing and talk about how as a once accomplished professional, he should step down now before he further embarrasses himself. Or you could go in a different route and talk about a player who was at the top and still continues to strive for the top, despite of the current wave of the top contenders. At the end of the film they are talking about how they foresee their futures, as someone who is into the scene I care about these people. I want them to succeed. But as a viewer of the film, I feel like I know none of them and aren't interesting in their storylines because the film failed to provide any. Contrast this with a film like Fistful of Quarters where the documentary sets clears good versus bad between the characters There was just so much potential to make a great compelling story, but fails so hard. This is depressing to see, on Reddit the creator said he has 700 gigs of footage. That could either be 20-45 hours of footage depending on the quality. If this is the best attempt, a series of interviewers. Then most of the footage is b rolls at various tournaments failing to capture anything of interest. As someone who is trying to make it in new media production, I find it incredibly sad that someone was given the opportunity to do this and squandered it. Well said. Post this on Reddit and you will get all the upvotes. I haven't seen it yet, but it's disheartening to hear that it's just interviews. | ||
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RoninShogun
United States315 Posts
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Hakker
United States1360 Posts
On June 23 2012 06:53 TeslasPigeon wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 23 2012 05:58 [17]Purple wrote: It is supposed to be a documentary about the players not a movie with a climax. I disagree, there have been many documentaries that make for amazing movies. A few examples are: Dear Zachary, Hearts of Darkness, or Bus 174. You have to remember that documentaries are suppose to tell a story, Liquid Rising had none. These are fluff pieces that could be intertwined into any SC2 media. Let's take a recent documentary, Exit Through the Gift Shop. The reason why this documentary is so critically acclaimed is that the story is very engrossing. The rise of an overnight street artist (Thierry Guetta) buying his way into fame and fortune from the misinterpreted advice that he received from his idol (Banksy). This is done through non traditional means of interview various street artists asking their opinions and experiences with Thierry while building upon the overall story, which the audience doesn't know of, until 2/3s of the way into the documentary. There is a high level of emotional attachment to the story and the payoff is worth watching the film. Documentaries are not a series of interviews, that is a news segment. Documentaries are suppose to convey reality through the means of a story. Liquid Rising is just a series of very specific interviews dealing about a very distinct subject. While there is nothing wrong with this if it is done in small segments, this type of format fails to draw in the audience after a set amount of time. A good example of this is during the Huk segment where at 1:14:50 they talk about the EG-Liquid rivalry. As someone who has only been following the scene for a few months, I don't know anything of this. Why should I believe it? Or better, why should I care? There was nothing in the documentary that foreshadow this. Am I suppose to just accept it because some people say so? This medium is video, you're also suppose to show your audience what you want them to feel not explicitly state them through a series of basic interviews. It just wasn't done well. There could of been so much that could of been done if you want to introduce an emotional element. Like Liquids dominance through the beta and first year of the game, but as SC2 became more developed they slowly slipped out of the spotlight as their players fell from the pillars where they once stood. It could of ended with Liquid players going to Korea to recapture their past glory. Take Jinro, a player who has an amazing story line and the director/creator completely missed it. Here you have a player that WAS one of the best during the early years. He had the experience and results to prove it. He was the foreigner hope in the GSL. He had amazing games and captivated whole rooms of people. He has the dedication of a true Olympian athlete. Then he slowly started to not make top finishes as the new wave of professionals came. Yet he still practices, he still has the mind of a champion. I mean fuck, he is still in Korea giving everything he has at a game he loves. This is a classic story line of a past champion that is still trying to make it with the new wave of talent. You can go in many different directions. You can make it depressing and talk about how as a once accomplished professional, he should step down now before he further embarrasses himself. Or you could go in a different route and talk about a player who was at the top and still continues to strive for the top, despite of the current wave of the top contenders. At the end of the film they are talking about how they foresee their futures, as someone who is into the scene I care about these people. I want them to succeed. But as a viewer of the film, I feel like I know none of them and aren't interesting in their storylines because the film failed to provide any. Contrast this with a film like Fistful of Quarters where the documentary sets clears good versus bad between the characters There was just so much potential to make a great compelling story, but fails so hard. This is depressing to see, on Reddit the creator said he has 700 gigs of footage. That could either be 20-45 hours of footage depending on the quality. If this is the best attempt, a series of interviewers. Then most of the footage is b rolls at various tournaments failing to capture anything of interest. As someone who is trying to make it in new media production, I find it incredibly sad that someone was given the opportunity to do this and squandered it. As someone thats only seen a few documentaries, you captured my sentiments exactly. | ||
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-stOpSKY-
Canada498 Posts
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Tal0n
United States175 Posts
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Daloze
8 Posts
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PinkBean
Norway38 Posts
 ? Possibly all | ||
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dolphen
63 Posts
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SmoKim
Denmark10305 Posts
Anyone know the playlist for the soundtrack? | ||
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ULuMuGuLu
190 Posts
This is no BM or stuff like that but i want to give an honest feedback on what i just seen. I like the idea but u can't call it documentary from the definition of what a doc means to be. It's more of an Imagefilm about TL but not a documentary. If you take a look from far away the plot is pretty flat and doesn't inform u about anything. The plot is like this: Introduce Player A, then B, then C. When u look at the stuff they say it's the same most of the time. Whoaaah, he is/or could be one of the best if there wasnt that one thing holding him back. And thats it, there are some sequences where u get to know a little bit more about the person himself but these are just too short. The part where it COULD develop into a documentary is the stuff Victor says about the management part of TL, the stuff he learned from the story with HuK and so on. That's what looks most like a documentary because it describes what that TL thing is about, how it developed and the consequences... but it's more like a sidekick to the player introductions. It's not the main focus of this thing and it looks more like it was generated randomly than on purpose. In general like i said before, if you rate it from the knowledge of what a documentary actually is, this is an imagefilm of TL introducing their players. It's not even close to the definition of what a documentary is, and again... it's no bias! I just want to make that clear and hope/think that others share this opinion. Overall i liked the imagefilm because as a fanboy i like the players (Her0, HuK, TLO) but that's it, it isn't a documentary that unveils all the bad things behind eSports for example or explains a thing to me i didn't know/understand before. Nevertheless i like the idea in general that somebody finally tried to make something like this AND i appreciate the guys on TL and their fans who support it financially. Documentarywise i'm a bit more hyped for "StarNation" because it makes the impression to me, that it's a real documentary. | ||
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dextrin303
Sweden320 Posts
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Kznn
Brazil9072 Posts
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Gosi
Sweden9072 Posts
![[image loading]](http://oi47.tinypic.com/5yaycz.jpg) | ||
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ShatterZer0
United States1843 Posts
I'm pretty happy it wasn't really a documentary... Too many disparate story lines for a documentary to work, in my opinion. Most documentaries feel too much like forgone conclusions to me, I'm pretty happy how hopeful the entire thing was in the first place.  EDIT: 15k... Whoa. | ||
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