The defending champions stumbled on the first step of their new campaign, suffering a shock upset against the GSTL first-timers Fnatic Raidcall. The upset alert has been raised, and StartaleQ will have to be at their very best as they take on New Star HoSeo tonight.
Prime began their title defense with nothing short of a nightmare performance, losing 4 - 5 to GSTL newcomers Fnatic Raidcall. Creator was the only player who lived up to the championship billing for Prime, netting his team three victories. The other members of the team were overwhelmed by the Warcraft III legend Moon and FnaticRC's ace in aLive. MarineKingPrime, the #2 Terran player in the world,* was particularly disappointing, unable to provide his team with a single win before getting taken down by Moon.
It was an upset, but at the same time not much of a surprise at all. Going into the season, FnaticRC and Prime could have not have had more different expectations on their shoulders. As the current title holders in three team competitions (IPL TAC, KSL, and GSTL), Prime were the consensus #1 team in the world. Meanwhile, Fnatic RC were an undermanned, under-experienced foreign team, who were happy enough to compete in the GSTL at all.
However, in the preliminary round of the season (from which the top four teams of the previous season received a bye), FnaticRC showed they had remarkable hidden depths. Fully devoted to Starcraft II, Moon showed glimpses of the sheer talent that allowed him to be called the "fifth race" in the four-race Warcraft III. ByuL, a pick up from the KeSPA teams also came out of nowhere to show some serious skills, culminating in a shock four-kill that allowed FnaticRC to triumph over LG-IM.
– aLive fulfills his end of the bargain as Moon shines
aLive hardly looked worthy of the title of 'Ace' in his first two matches of the season, where he lost to IM's YongHwa and TSL_Symbol. However, a solid clean-up performance against Prime from 3 - 4 down has done much to restore his reputation. First, aLive was able to take care of Creator's greedy double expansion build with a shrewd 6-rax only marine rush on Muspelheim. Then, in the ninth and final set, aLive got on a roll with the marine-marauder style that had cost him his last two TvZ's, and defeated Prime's final runner in BBoongBBoong.
Though it was a great ace performance from aLive, it was Moon who stole the show. A mysterious, almost reclusive player, the Warcraft III legend showed up for GSTL duty and put in another incredibly impressive performance. Coming out second after FnaticRC's Rain lost in the first set, Moon pulled off a string of three consecutive wins - most impressively triumphing over the dreaded MarineKingPrime. The map was Entombed Valley, MarineKing's choice of battlefield to avenge his friend GhostKingPrime who had lost the previous set.
With MarineKing clamping down on three bases and preparing to attack with endless marine-tank armies, Moon decided to show that he would not be outdone in brute force and prolonged his stay at lair to make huge muta-ling-bane armies to fight MKP head on. MarineKing got to show off his trademark marine splits and impressive micro in several battles scattered across the map, but Moon was able to swallow-up the Terran armies all the same. After a number of defeats, MarineKing saw the line of battle move from the Zerg expansions all the way back to his own base. Moon refused to let up the pressure and eventually broke through the last lines of defense, forcing the GG.
During his first stint as a Starcraft II player, Moon partially lived up to the hype that came along with being one of the greatest Warcraft III players of all time. However, he was forced to take a hiatus as he went back to focus on Warcraft III instead, and only became a full-time Starcraft II gamer a few months ago. While his initial comeback offerings at Assembly Winter were extremely shaky, his GSTL performances are showing that he has a shot at recapturing his former glory. He's been the best player for FnaticRC so far, scoring seven wins while averaging slightly over 2 wins per game. aLive might have the title of ace, but Moon definitely has the numbers.
Game of the night: Game Six - Creator vs ByuL - Cloud Kingdom
This was a game with a few twists and turns, all starting when ByuL decided to baneling bust a forge FE. It was a nice change of pace from the mutually agreed econ-fests we're seeing in recent days, and both players ended up in unusual but even mid-game positions after ByuL dealt a moderate amount of damage with his attack.
ByuL seemed to take a big lead when his multi-prong roach tactics allowed him to destroy Creator third base, but Creator showed patience and perseverance to retake his third, build up a death-ball, and crush ByuL before he could get up to hive.
*I apologize for absentmindedly stating MarineKingPrime was the #1 Terran player in the world in a previous version of this article. Mvp is the #1 player in the world, across all races.
New Star HoSeo
StartaleQ
by NrGmonk
b]Where They Stand[/b] The two teams playing in today's match are actually pretty similar. Both are very well-rounded teams containing players around the same level as their teammates. Of course, most people would rate StarTaleQ's players more highly. Parting recently caught everyone's attention with his impressive PvT play, Squirtle placed second in both IPL4 and GSL, and Bomber also place second at a major lan, the Red Bull Battlegrounds. All three players are at the cusp of the top top tier, and their teammates aren't far behind. Curious is a solidly Code S player, July is legendary, and Virus and Ace are both capable of showing glimmers of Code S brilliance. Not to mention StartaleQ has the option, should they choose, to use Naniwa, Sase, and theStc, all high level players by their own rights. So far though, Startale has not yet ever exercised this option.
NSH also has just as diverse a roster as StartaleQ, as they are able to field at least two decent players of each race. (They're also notable for being able to send an full lineup of players with names that start with the letter S.) The quality of these players leave a bit to be desired, however. NSH currently has no players in Code S and only three players in Code A. Even NSH's most valuable player, Jjakji could not hold onto his Code S mantle. But from experience, we all know GSL status matters little in determining GSTL prowess. DRG, for example, back when he was dominating GSTL, was not even in Code A. And NSH's players, while not necessarily in the GSL, have proven in team leagues that they can all consistently take multiple games off of top players. That being said, it might still surprise you that the lifetime record between these two teams is actually only 3-2 in favor of Startale, with both teams holding one all-kill against the other, from Bomber and Sage. Perhaps NSH shouldn't be counted out so soon.
Key Players StartaleQ: Bomber Bomber, as the only player for Startale who has all-killed NSH, will be an important player in today's war. Bomber is so scary for NSH that they often times rely on their ace, Jjajki to take him down with mixed results. Bomber, although he hit a rough patch a few months ago, seems to have caught his stride a bit again. With his second place finish at Red Bull Battlegrounds, where he placed higher than all of his StartaleQ teammates, and the 2GD Studio Arena, where he beat top foreigners in Huk and Stephano, he seemed to declare to the world that he was truly back and it was his time again in the spotlight.
Bomber also seems to be the perfect player to take on NSH. He has no real match-up weaknesses and his strong macro play should be more than capable of handling the unconventional play we have come to expect and love from NSH. Ask Bomber what he thinks of this match, and he'll certainly reply, "Are you ready for Bombing?"
NSH: Sage Correspondingly, Captain Sage is only player from NSH who has ever all-killed Startale. Unfortunately for NSH, and even more unfortunately for Sage, he is nowhere near the level he once was in his prime, when he showcased both extremely creative and solid play in a large sample of games. In recent matches, NSH has not shown confidence in Sage, instead opting to send out Tassadar and San as their Protoss picks instead of their captain. In short, he is no longer "the next Protoss hope".
But this story sounds awfully familiar. SlayersAlicia, was also, at one time, dubbed "the next great Protoss hope", or even "the chosen one". Since his impressive run through the second ever Code A and first ever Super Tournament, Alicia seemed destined for greatness. But these predictions never seemed to manifest, as Alicia became more mediocre and mediocre with every season, eventually dropping out of the GSL entirely. Then, without warning, and seemingly out of nowhere, he placed third at an incredibly difficult tournament at MLG Anaheim. It may be a bit premature to say that Alicia has truly risen from the ashes again, but this does show that past greats have the potential to miraculously and spontaneous come back once again to surprise us. The spark of inspiration that we once saw from players like Alicia and Sage still exists buried deep within the players, and now is as good a time as any for Sage to make his return. Sage should go into this match with cautious confidence; he gained his fame with his all-kill of fOu(now FXO) and he's all-killed Startale before, so who says it's not about time for an encore?
Aces: Startale: Squirtle Even before Squirtle's rise to prominence with his back-to-back second place finishes in big name tournaments, Squirtle could have been considered an Ace for Startale. As Bomber was making the biggest splashes in the GSL from StartaleQ, Squirtle was staying more low-profile, quietly scoring solid numbers of wins for his team. Now that he has moved up to become Startale's most decorated player, we will begin expecting more from the water-type.
But every Pokemon, even a Pokemon legend such as Squirtle has his weaknesses. And as we learned recently in GSL, Squirtle's "vine whip" is the dreaded proxy 2 rax. After MVPKeen determine's that Squirtle's shell was too hard to break with his best macro play, he turned to proxy 2 rax in games 2 and 3, and won both despite the fact that Squirtle had a good idea it was coming in both games. It seems that Squirtle had been psychologically scarred by his GSL finals where he lost to a proxy 2 rax, even after he thought he held it off, in the deciding game. In his interview, Squirtle discusses the traumatic experience and even admits to never having even tried to watch game 7. But as long as the 2nd place curse isn't real, and as long as Squirtle finally practices his proxy 2 rax defense, he should do just dandy. Squirtle hasn't shown that he is the type of player to all-kill, but you can definitely expect a solid 1-2 wins.
NSH: Jjakji Because of Jjakji, NSH is able to claim that they have more GSL championships to their team than Startale. (And no, Fruitdealer doesn't count). But these days, Jjakji just doesn't seem to seem to make the noise he once did when he won his GSL. We thought he would come back to prominence after winning IPL's tournament of champions, but he once again fell back into the vast sea of "just" top 6-20 Korean Terrans, although he has an asterisk over his name denoting his GSL championship. And of all GSL champions (again, Fruitdealer excluded), Jjakji just seems unremarkable. MVP, Nestea, MC, DRG, and MMA are all still considered titans and at the absolute tip top of their races. And while performing well in GSTL is definitely not a defining characteristic of a GSL champion (looking at you, members of team LG-IM-SK), it certainly wouldn't hurt Jjakji's reputation. Come on, Jjakji. I really like your play, but you really gotta step it up.
Prediction: What we can definitely expect to see from this match is a clash of styles. StartaleQ is a team with more solid, more standardized play, backed up by results. NSH players, on the other hand, tend to favor more untested and unconventional styles. The results of today's match will directly reflect on StartaleQ's preparation against such stylistic and often wacky play.
Players like Seal, Freaky, and Jjakji should give StartaleQ some trouble, but it will take an amazing streak from at least one of them to really take down such a solid team. But as we learned from + Show Spoiler +
yesterday's upset of Moon and Alive over Prime, such streaks are not as uncommon as one might think.
All it really takes is one or two key players to have a good day and the best teams in the world will fall at your feet.
But more often than not, the favorites prove they are the favorites for a reason.
Startale 5 - 3 NSH
Writer: NrGmonk and Waxangel. Graphics: Pathy. Editor: Waxangel.
MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
Totally agreed. Marineking can only play well when the .tournament has no preparation time like mlg.but in gsl he just get outsmarted by other ppl strategies.
MMA may certainly be considered a titan still by some, but you'd be crazy to claim him to be at the tip top of his race. When was the last impressive performance he put up anyway? Blizzard Cup?
On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
Yeah, that was weird. I'm pretty sure most agree with MVP being the world's best player, how could anyone else be the number one Terran if that's the case?
Edit: Also, GSTL starts 05:10 GMT (+00:00) on Saturdays, not 09:10 GMT (+00:00).
On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
LOL MKP won 2 mlg's in a row, and has been dominating everyone. He was almost the consensus #1 player in the world until the zerg buff happened...
On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
Yeah, that was weird. I'm pretty sure most agree with MVP being the world's best player, how could anyone else be the number one Terran if that's the case?
Edit: Also, GSTL starts 05:10 GMT (+00:00) on Saturdays, not 09:10 GMT (+00:00).
MVP is the best Terran at preparation/strategy MKP is the best at MLG/IPL kind of things relying on fundamentals/mechanics
On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
Totally agreed. Marineking can only play well when the .tournament has no preparation time like mlg.but in gsl he just get outsmarted by other ppl strategies.
Let's suppose for the sake of argument that tournaments with preparation time differ enough from tournaments without preparation time that a player's style can make him or her transcendent at one and mediocre at the other, and suppose further that this is the case with Marineking.
Even granting this, how do you support the claim that skill at preparation-style tournaments is what determines the greatest player or is in any case more important than skill in non-preparation-style tournaments?
Both skills are extremely impressive, and there's at least as much a case for Mvp lacking the second type of skill as there is for Marineking lacking the first type (which is to say, not that much of a case for either).
ST is certainly the favourite, and while I root for NSHS it is hard not to admit that ST just has a deeper, better roster. I still dislike how these writeups disregard the simple matter of opportunities. Many players have several good&goodish results in international tournaments for the sheer fact that they have the chance to run in several of them. Jjakji, as far as I see, tends not to perform any worse than a few other "big name" terran players, particularly considering the current metagame. (e.g. recent TSL qualifier.)
P.S. By the way, if you want to cruelly hype Sage up, you could mention that he defeated DRG 2-1 in the KR TSL qualifier. =P
"MarineKingPrime, the #1 Terran player in the world"
#1 terran in the world but has never won a GSL title and dies a lot when getting back to the GSL from foreign tournies, while a terran that won 4 GSL titles is not #1 terran.
On June 16 2012 08:21 SteveWoods wrote: MMA may certainly be considered a titan still by some, but you'd be crazy to claim him to be at the tip top of his race. When was the last impressive performance he put up anyway? Blizzard Cup?
Iron Squid actually that was only a few months and he is in the Starswar Tourney and prob gonna win. IF you did not see his game vs MKP then you clearly dont know he still a titan.
On June 16 2012 08:21 SteveWoods wrote: MMA may certainly be considered a titan still by some, but you'd be crazy to claim him to be at the tip top of his race. When was the last impressive performance he put up anyway? Blizzard Cup?
Won IEM Kiev, didn't drop a single game through IEM World Championship until he lost to Puma and got 3rd place. Got 1st place at Iron Squid taking down aLive and Symbol on the way, the guy who reverse all-killed IM. Finally, MMA beat MKP 4-3 in the finals for the online Star Wars Final in an epic series only weeks after MKP barely lost to DRG in MLG Spring Arena 2. I'd say those are pretty consistent results
On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
LOL MKP won 2 mlg's in a row, and has been dominating everyone. He was almost the consensus #1 player in the world until the zerg buff happened...
Winning a GSL is more impressive than winning 10 MLGs.
On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
Totally agreed. Marineking can only play well when the .tournament has no preparation time like mlg.but in gsl he just get outsmarted by other ppl strategies.
Let's suppose for the sake of argument that tournaments with preparation time differ enough from tournaments without preparation time that a player's style can make him or her transcendent at one and mediocre at the other, and suppose further that this is the case with Marineking.
Even granting this, how do you support the claim that skill at preparation-style tournaments is what determines the greatest player or is in any case more important than skill in non-preparation-style tournaments?
Both skills are extremely impressive, and there's at least as much a case for Mvp lacking the second type of skill as there is for Marineking lacking the first type (which is to say, not that much of a case for either).
It's not just preparation vs none. At MLG every player is extremely tired/jetlagged. They are getting <8 hours of sleep every day. No one is playing at their peak. What MLG really measures is the player who can play closest to how good they actually are while tired and jetlagged. At GSL players are in prime condition. They always know exactly when their matches are going to be. They only play a few matches a day tops. They don't have to deal with dozens of fan surrounding them all the time. They are well rested and sleeping in their own beds. GSL is a far more accurate measure of how good players actually are.
Then there is also just the players in each. GSL has a significantly higher average skill level than MLG.
Here's where MMA took down 3 toss, including squirtle and then MKP to take the whole thing. Really get miffed when people say he's in a slump just because this result wasn't publicized as it should have been
On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
LOL MKP won 2 mlg's in a row, and has been dominating everyone. He was almost the consensus #1 player in the world until the zerg buff happened...
Winning a GSL is more impressive than winning 10 MLGs.
On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
Totally agreed. Marineking can only play well when the .tournament has no preparation time like mlg.but in gsl he just get outsmarted by other ppl strategies.
Let's suppose for the sake of argument that tournaments with preparation time differ enough from tournaments without preparation time that a player's style can make him or her transcendent at one and mediocre at the other, and suppose further that this is the case with Marineking.
Even granting this, how do you support the claim that skill at preparation-style tournaments is what determines the greatest player or is in any case more important than skill in non-preparation-style tournaments?
Both skills are extremely impressive, and there's at least as much a case for Mvp lacking the second type of skill as there is for Marineking lacking the first type (which is to say, not that much of a case for either).
It's not just preparation vs none. At MLG every player is extremely tired/jetlagged. They are getting <8 hours of sleep every day. No one is playing at their peak. What MLG really measures is the player who can play closest to how good they actually are while tired and jetlagged. At GSL players are in prime condition. They always know exactly when their matches are going to be. They only play a few matches a day tops. They don't have to deal with dozens of fan surrounding them all the time. They are well rested and sleeping in their own beds. GSL is a far more accurate measure of how good players actually are.
Then there is also just the players in each. GSL has a significantly higher average skill level than MLG.
Two points:
1) A player's endurance is an important skill and I think it deserves to be part of evaluating who the best player is.
2) Clearly MLGs don't only measure "who can play closest to how good they actually are while tired and jetlagged." They also must be very closely measuring the types of skills that allow players to win any tournament. Otherwise, why would you have so gigantic of an overlap in performances between MLGs and other types of tournaments?
Mvp and Marineking, contrary to popular belief, have done superbly in both, with Mvp winning an MLG and Marineking getting deep repeatedly in a ton of different GSLs (no, you don't have to win the whole thing to be impressive in a GSL). Squirtle, DRG, and MMA are also uncontroversially stupendous at both types. Bomber is inconsistently stupdendous at both. Nestea has participated in very few MLG-style events, but has made great runs when he has. Naniwa is currently in the process of demonstrating that his MLG-style skills translate to GSL, and Hero went a long way towards doing the same thing last season.
The above overlap would be inexplicable if MLGs didn't to an extremely large degree measure the same types of talent that the GSLs measure. It makes no sense to say otherwise.
Please shut up about whose the best terran none of you know what you are talking about. And when someone says arguably the #1 terran that doesnt mean hes #1 100%. thats just saying hes 1 of the best. Jeez people will argue about anything.
On June 16 2012 09:20 CFCryptos wrote: Please shut up about whose the best terran none of you know what you are talking about. And when someone says arguably the #1 terran that doesnt mean hes #1 100%. thats just saying hes 1 of the best. Jeez people will argue about anything.
"MarineKingPrime, the #1 Terran player in the world, was particularly disappointing". I don't see the word "arguably" in there do you?
On June 16 2012 09:20 CFCryptos wrote: Please shut up about whose the best terran none of you know what you are talking about. And when someone says arguably the #1 terran that doesnt mean hes #1 100%. thats just saying hes 1 of the best. Jeez people will argue about anything.
Yeah, a year ago Mvp would have been the go to guy for #1 terran, but even with his championship last season I can't say he's uncontested for that spot. Although more inconsistent than before, MKP is still a very, very, very good player. He all-killed Startale few weeks ago, as well as placing very high consecutively at MLGs. And then there are also players like Taeja, aLive, MMA, who have shown their extreme talent and their capabilities. In the end, it's really hard to tell who is the best. They're all "1 of the best".
If i remember right, MKP had to play just a day after he came back from MLG, when he dropped out in the round of 16 last season. He definetly was not well rested and could have taken that group. So I think, he can be called the best Terran in the world, I guess there are different opionions.And because of recent results in MLG´s , GSL´s and not to forget GSTL last season which Prime won with MKP as their Ace.
Because I didn't want to pointlessly annoy people who were writing these great articles out of their love for StarCraft, I've been holding in my pedantic instincts and not calling out the use of apostrophes in pluralisations like this one:
On June 16 2012 07:59 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote: his last two TvZ's
But what is this?
On June 16 2012 07:59 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote: After MVPKeen determine's
Thanks for the great article, this outburst notwithstanding.
Of all GSL champions (again, Fruitdealer excluded), Jjakji just seems unremarkable. MVP, Nestea, MC, DRG, and MMA are all still considered titans and at the absolute tip top of their races
Of all GSL champions (again, Fruitdealer excluded), Jjakji just seems unremarkable. MVP, Nestea, MC, DRG, and MMA are all still considered titans and at the absolute tip top of their races
On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
LOL MKP won 2 mlg's in a row, and has been dominating everyone. He was almost the consensus #1 player in the world until the zerg buff happened...
#1 over a player that has won 4 gsl championships? Not even close.
On June 16 2012 08:11 HolyArrow wrote: As the creator of the Alicia fanclub, I must express my dissatisfaction at how the article says Alicia placed third at MLG Anaheim >:[
If i remember right, MKP had to play just a day after he came back from MLG, when he dropped out in the round of 16 last season. He definetly was not well rested and could have taken that group.
There was also him picking Taeja for his group rather than forcing a ST all-kill, an olive branch after the previous season's GSTL finals.
On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
LOL MKP won 2 mlg's in a row, and has been dominating everyone. He was almost the consensus #1 player in the world until the zerg buff happened...
Winning a GSL is more impressive than winning 10 MLGs.
If this were true, then Jjakji is considered a better player than MKP?
On June 16 2012 09:28 Fanatic-Templar wrote: Because I didn't want to pointlessly annoy people who were writing these great articles out of their love for StarCraft, I've been holding in my pedantic instincts and not calling out the use of apostrophes in pluralisations like this one:
MVP stopped being good at MLGS ever since his wrists became a problem since he can't play many games over a short period of time.
Personally, I believe MVP will be back at top of MLGS again once he recovers from surgery. Also, if it weren't for MVP, MKP would've won 2 GSLs by now.
On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
LOL MKP won 2 mlg's in a row, and has been dominating everyone. He was almost the consensus #1 player in the world until the zerg buff happened...
Winning a GSL is more impressive than winning 10 MLGs.
If this were true, then Jjakji is considered a better player than MKP?
not " better " because " better " is not defined by achievements but by gameplay, he is more accomplished though.
then again you can make an argument for 3 gsl silvers and 2 mlgs > one gsl win, which I would probably agree with.
MKP should never have been considered the best player in the world. I said it then and I'll say it now. MLG is a great tournament, but it does not feature anywhere near the depth of competition that GSL does. The fact that players cannot be near their peak condition at an MLG isn't my primary issue, but it does compound the its issues.
MKP was never the best player in the world, due to his consistant failure to make a deep run in the most important tournament during the time period at hand. I would say that right now, no player has the results to be considered #1.
Creator vs Byul was the worst game of the series, never have I been so frustrated with a game before. Byul had a mega lead and then showed he was nothing but an SC2 newbie, not having a transition/plan from the Semi bling all-inn.
There where better games; Moon vs MKP comes to mind. Long time since I've seen MKP had that mutch trouble with TvZ, Moon going old school using Muta and burrowed banes to great effect.
:EDIT: DRG vs MKP in MLG don't count, as it was a much closer fight, here he got rolled.
On June 16 2012 10:46 TheQuixotic wrote: MKP should never have been considered the best player in the world. I said it then and I'll say it now. MLG is a great tournament, but it does not feature anywhere near the depth of competition that GSL does. The fact that players cannot be near their peak condition at an MLG isn't my primary issue, but it does compound the its issues.
MKP was never the best player in the world, due to his consistant failure to make a deep run in the most important tournament during the time period at hand. I would say that right now, no player has the results to be considered #1.
Wouldn't it be tied DRG/MVP for best player if you include GSL performances this year as the only measurement?
On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
LOL MKP won 2 mlg's in a row, and has been dominating everyone. He was almost the consensus #1 player in the world until the zerg buff happened...
Winning a GSL is more impressive than winning 10 MLGs.
If this were true, then Jjakji is considered a better player than MKP?
not " better " because " better " is not defined by achievements but by gameplay, he is more accomplished though.
then again you can make an argument for 3 gsl silvers and 2 mlgs > one gsl win, which I would probably agree with.
I think more important than any titles is taking into account consistent quality of play and success vs top level opponents over a period of time, which MarineKing has shown more than anyone as of late IMO. Sure Jjakji did great, and yes Mvp's GSLs are obviously a massive achievement, but I think MKP seems like the scarier player right now. Of course this is subjective, but I don't think you can look at it as simply as comparing medals.
On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
Code S really isnt the best indicator of skill. Anything can happen and its like a shit fest basically. I dont really think you can dispute MKP as the best Terran (DRG fan here)
[QUOTE]On June 16 2012 10:51 TommyP wrote: [QUOTE]On June 16 2012 10:49 Dodgin wrote: [QUOTE]On June 16 2012 10:46 TheQuixotic wrote: MKP should never have been considered the best player in the world. I said it then and I'll say it now. MLG is a great tournament, but it does not feature anywhere near the depth of competition that GSL does. The fact that players cannot be near their peak condition at an MLG isn't my primary issue, but it does compound the its issues.
MKP was never the best player in the world, due to his consistant failure to make a deep run in the most important tournament during the time period at hand. I would say that right now, no player has the results to be considered #1.[/QUOTE]
Youre right MLG isnt near the GSL depth of competition. MLG blows GSL out of the water. You basically play a Code S in a weekend and dont have the luxury of preparing for an opponent. Its all the Code S players plus Code A and foreigners. [/QUOTE]
On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
LOL MKP won 2 mlg's in a row, and has been dominating everyone. He was almost the consensus #1 player in the world until the zerg buff happened...
Winning a GSL is more impressive than winning 10 MLGs.
If this were true, then Jjakji is considered a better player than MKP?
not " better " because " better " is not defined by achievements but by gameplay, he is more accomplished though.
then again you can make an argument for 3 gsl silvers and 2 mlgs > one gsl win, which I would probably agree with.
I think more important than any titles is taking into account consistent quality of play and success vs top level opponents over a period of time, which MarineKing has shown more than anyone as of late IMO. Sure Jjakji did great, and yes Mvp's GSLs are obviously a massive achievement, but I think MKP seems like the scarier player right now. Of course this is subjective, but I don't think you can look at it as simply as comparing medals.
I agree you can't just look at medals when looking for " the best player " that's why It's so hard to really say who the best is, right now I think DRG is currently playing the best out of anyone but that can change very quickly if he for example fails to advance from his ro32 group. It's hard to please everyone with the criteria of what makes the best player.
On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
LOL MKP won 2 mlg's in a row, and has been dominating everyone. He was almost the consensus #1 player in the world until the zerg buff happened...
Winning a GSL is more impressive than winning 10 MLGs.
If this were true, then Jjakji is considered a better player than MKP?
not " better " because " better " is not defined by achievements but by gameplay, he is more accomplished though.
then again you can make an argument for 3 gsl silvers and 2 mlgs > one gsl win, which I would probably agree with.
I think more important than any titles is taking into account consistent quality of play and success vs top level opponents over a period of time, which MarineKing has shown more than anyone as of late IMO. Sure Jjakji did great, and yes Mvp's GSLs are obviously a massive achievement, but I think MKP seems like the scarier player right now. Of course this is subjective, but I don't think you can look at it as simply as comparing medals.
I agree you can't just look at medals when looking for " the best player " that's why It's so hard to really say who the best is, right now I think DRG is currently playing the best out of anyone but that can change very quickly if he for example fails to advance from his ro32 group. It's hard to please everyone with the criteria of what makes the best player.
Very true, but he has an incredibly hard group and in SC2 any Code S korean can beat any Code S Korean.
On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
Code S really isnt the best indicator of skill. Anything can happen and its like a shit fest basically. I dont really think you can dispute MKP as the best Terran (DRG fan here)
MLG is basically a shit fest and anything can happen, what do you call rushing out an entire premier tournament in a weekend? GSL is where you can see who the most consistent players are, not just who is having a good weekend.
Keeping up your form for months and winning Code S is the single hardest thing to accomplish in sc2 by far. It's the best way to see who the real champions are.
On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
Code S really isnt the best indicator of skill. Anything can happen and its like a shit fest basically. I dont really think you can dispute MKP as the best Terran (DRG fan here)
GSL is basically a shit fest and anything can happen, what do you call rushing out an entire premier tournament in a weekend? GSL is where you can see who the most consistent players are, not just who is having a good weekend.
I assume you mean MLG or something like it in you first sentence?
Glad Fnatic managed to upset Prime, and I hope NSH can pull out a win tonight. :D
On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
Code S really isnt the best indicator of skill. Anything can happen and its like a shit fest basically. I dont really think you can dispute MKP as the best Terran (DRG fan here)
GSL is basically a shit fest and anything can happen, what do you call rushing out an entire premier tournament in a weekend? GSL is where you can see who the most consistent players are, not just who is having a good weekend.
True, but it shows who can be the best in the world without preparing for a single opponent and what i meant by "shit fest" was there is just too much talent and you never have an easy game, where as in MLG you can play a foreigner, but yes pretty much all tournaments are shit fests.
On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
Code S really isnt the best indicator of skill. Anything can happen and its like a shit fest basically. I dont really think you can dispute MKP as the best Terran (DRG fan here)
GSL is basically a shit fest and anything can happen, what do you call rushing out an entire premier tournament in a weekend? GSL is where you can see who the most consistent players are, not just who is having a good weekend.
I assume you mean MLG or something like it in you first sentence?
Glad Fnatic managed to upset Prime, and I hope NSH can pull out a win tonight. :D
On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
Code S really isnt the best indicator of skill. Anything can happen and its like a shit fest basically. I dont really think you can dispute MKP as the best Terran (DRG fan here)
GSL is basically a shit fest and anything can happen, what do you call rushing out an entire premier tournament in a weekend? GSL is where you can see who the most consistent players are, not just who is having a good weekend.
True, but it shows who can be the best in the world without preparing for a single opponent and what i meant by "shit fest" was there is just too much talent and you never have an easy game, where as in MLG you can play a foreigner, but yes pretty much all tournaments are shit fests.
I can agree with that, I still think winning a GSL with the current length of the season is by far the most impressive thing any player can accomplish though. Last year's GSL seasons were a lot shorter but now it really takes a champion to play well enough to win a 2-3 month long tournament.
I'll give an example, Slayers_Alicia.
Alicia was playing amazing at MLG and came home with second, beating MKP.
But Alicia will never win GSL ( feel free to quote me months/years down the road and laugh if I'm wrong ) because he is not a true champion. Marineking is also, not yet, a true champion. When Marineking wins the GSL he will be. This of course has nothing to do with player skill and we're getting a bit off topic here but I want people to understand just how hard it is to win GSL compared to a weekend tournament. This is why It's the most prestigious tournament in the world and lots of people will agree 1 gsl > multiple MLG wins.
Alternatively, if Marineking the " best player/terran in the world " can win MLG's but has not passed the ro16 in GSL in a long time doesn't this prove how hard the tournament is to win?
On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
Yeah, that was weird. I'm pretty sure most agree with MVP being the world's best player, how could anyone else be the number one Terran if that's the case?
Edit: Also, GSTL starts 05:10 GMT (+00:00) on Saturdays, not 09:10 GMT (+00:00).
MVP is the best Terran at preparation/strategy MKP is the best at MLG/IPL kind of things relying on fundamentals/mechanics
Arguably the top 2 of the Terrans though.
This.
Also MKP 7(6?)-0 ST, crushing players like Parting and Squirtle.
On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
Code S really isnt the best indicator of skill. Anything can happen and its like a shit fest basically. I dont really think you can dispute MKP as the best Terran (DRG fan here)
GSL is basically a shit fest and anything can happen, what do you call rushing out an entire premier tournament in a weekend? GSL is where you can see who the most consistent players are, not just who is having a good weekend.
I assume you mean MLG or something like it in you first sentence?
Glad Fnatic managed to upset Prime, and I hope NSH can pull out a win tonight. :D
On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
Code S really isnt the best indicator of skill. Anything can happen and its like a shit fest basically. I dont really think you can dispute MKP as the best Terran (DRG fan here)
GSL is basically a shit fest and anything can happen, what do you call rushing out an entire premier tournament in a weekend? GSL is where you can see who the most consistent players are, not just who is having a good weekend.
True, but it shows who can be the best in the world without preparing for a single opponent and what i meant by "shit fest" was there is just too much talent and you never have an easy game, where as in MLG you can play a foreigner, but yes pretty much all tournaments are shit fests.
I can agree with that, I still think winning a GSL with the current length of the season is by far the most impressive thing any player can accomplish though. Last year's GSL seasons were a lot shorter but now it really takes a champion to play well enough to win a 2-3 month long tournament.
I'll give an example, Slayers_Alicia.
Alicia was playing amazing at MLG and came home with second, beating MKP.
But Alicia will never win GSL ( feel free to quote me months/years down the road and laugh if I'm wrong ) because he is not a true champion. Marineking is also, not yet, a true champion. When Marineking wins the GSL he will be. This of course has nothing to do with player skill and we're getting a bit off topic here but I want people to understand just how hard it is to win GSL compared to a weekend tournament. This is why It's the most prestigious tournament in the world and lots of people will agree 1 gsl > multiple MLG wins.
And lots of people will agree multiple MLG wins is more impressive than 1 GSL win.
I don't get why yall are even arguing. Some people like the planning, mindgame skills in GSL and some people like the game sense needed for MLGs. As for which one's better - they are both opinions, there is not right or wrong answer.
For now the only objective reason GSL is considered better is because of the high level competition, but MLG keeps getting better and better players coming so ...
On June 16 2012 09:20 CFCryptos wrote: Please shut up about whose the best terran none of you know what you are talking about. And when someone says arguably the #1 terran that doesnt mean hes #1 100%. thats just saying hes 1 of the best. Jeez people will argue about anything.
"MarineKingPrime, the #1 Terran player in the world, was particularly disappointing". I don't see the word "arguably" in there do you?
On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
Code S really isnt the best indicator of skill. Anything can happen and its like a shit fest basically. I dont really think you can dispute MKP as the best Terran (DRG fan here)
GSL is basically a shit fest and anything can happen, what do you call rushing out an entire premier tournament in a weekend? GSL is where you can see who the most consistent players are, not just who is having a good weekend.
I assume you mean MLG or something like it in you first sentence?
Glad Fnatic managed to upset Prime, and I hope NSH can pull out a win tonight. :D
Yep typo, sorry.
On June 16 2012 10:57 TommyP wrote:
On June 16 2012 10:55 Dodgin wrote:
On June 16 2012 10:49 TommyP wrote:
On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
Code S really isnt the best indicator of skill. Anything can happen and its like a shit fest basically. I dont really think you can dispute MKP as the best Terran (DRG fan here)
GSL is basically a shit fest and anything can happen, what do you call rushing out an entire premier tournament in a weekend? GSL is where you can see who the most consistent players are, not just who is having a good weekend.
True, but it shows who can be the best in the world without preparing for a single opponent and what i meant by "shit fest" was there is just too much talent and you never have an easy game, where as in MLG you can play a foreigner, but yes pretty much all tournaments are shit fests.
I can agree with that, I still think winning a GSL with the current length of the season is by far the most impressive thing any player can accomplish though. Last year's GSL seasons were a lot shorter but now it really takes a champion to play well enough to win a 2-3 month long tournament.
I'll give an example, Slayers_Alicia.
Alicia was playing amazing at MLG and came home with second, beating MKP.
But Alicia will never win GSL ( feel free to quote me months/years down the road and laugh if I'm wrong ) because he is not a true champion. Marineking is also, not yet, a true champion. When Marineking wins the GSL he will be. This of course has nothing to do with player skill and we're getting a bit off topic here but I want people to understand just how hard it is to win GSL compared to a weekend tournament. This is why It's the most prestigious tournament in the world and lots of people will agree 1 gsl > multiple MLG wins.
And lots of people will agree multiple MLG wins is more impressive than 1 GSL win.
I don't get why yall are even arguing. Some people like the planning, mindgame skills in GSL and some people like the game sense needed for MLGs. As for which one's better - they are both opinions, there is not right or wrong answer.
For now the only objective reason GSL is considered better is because of the high level competition, but MLG keeps getting better and better players coming so ...
No the reason GSL is considered better is not only because the player pool is better, but also because the tournament is not finished in three days and there is no open bracket or pools difference which makes winning the tournament much much harder if you're not seeded. Players have an advantage before the tournament even begins. GSL also has bo5 for ro8 and semifinals and bo7 for finals, while MLG has bo3 all the way until the finals which is honestly ridiculous that the winners bracket finals is bo3.
On June 16 2012 10:31 FidoDido wrote: MVP stopped being good at MLGS ever since his wrists became a problem since he can't play many games over a short period of time.
Personally, I believe MVP will be back at top of MLGS again once he recovers from surgery. Also, if it weren't for MVP, MKP would've won 2 GSLs by now.
Didn't MVP win the GSL through open bracket not dropping a single match? (Or even perhaps a single MAP?!).
There is a reason why MVP is not just the #1 terran, he is the #1 God.
If MKP had never advanced out of the first round in GSL then I'd argue yes they would be more accomplished though not necessarily more skilled. Especially Fruitdealer since the skill level was so horrible back then. MKP has got 3 second places though along with a few other high finishes which is definitely more impressive than a single victory and then falling off. The problem is MKP's last high finish was I believe the Super Tournament which was almost a year ago. Since then he has not passed the ro16 and has frequently lost in the first round.
Fruitdealer is indeed > MKP when fruitdealer won the championship and MKP cant even get past prelim. You cant compare winners of tournaments at different time frame because people improves alot through the two years, cant believe how your brain's logic works. Winning 1 GSL may not be more impressive than winning 10 MLGs but 1 GSL is definitely more indicative of a player being able to consistently perform well rather than having a good weekend. That is why Mvp is the number 1 terran now, furthermore has MKP ever taken a single series off Mvp?
People always say that MKP is good at MLG format and MVP is good at GSL format but the fact is MVP has won the tournaments with all of the formats you can think of in this world. He went to MLG only 2 times and won the first and placed 4th at the second. That's impressive result.
On June 16 2012 12:22 Wildmoon wrote: People always say that MKP is good at MLG format and MVP is good at GSL format but the fact is MVP has won the tournaments with all of the formats you can think of in this world. He went to MLG only 2 times and won the first and placed 4th at the second. That's impressive result.
Yeah, idk why people are saying MVP is only good in GSL-style tournaments. He's showed time and time again he can beat the shit out of people with and without preparation; it is just that he doesn't go to as many foreign tournaments as MKP, which just makes people think he's not good at that style of tournament, but it's just flat-out false when you stop and think about it a little bit.
You can maybe make the case for NesTea (who seems more susceptible to jet-lag as well), but definitely not MVP. The only thing MVP's got going against him is that his wrists are basically shredded right now, and yet he's managed to win a GSL gold even in that condition.
Fruitdealer is indeed > MKP when fruitdealer won the championship and MKP cant even get past prelim. You cant compare winners of tournaments at different time frame because people improves alot through the two years, cant believe how your brain's logic works. Winning 1 GSL may not be more impressive than winning 10 MLGs but 1 GSL is definitely more indicative of a player being able to consistently perform well rather than having a good weekend. That is why Mvp is the number 1 terran now, furthermore has MKP ever taken a single series off Mvp?
3 GSL silvers>1 GSL gold. MKP is a hundred times the player Fruitdealer ever has been or could ever hope to be
On June 16 2012 12:22 Wildmoon wrote: People always say that MKP is good at MLG format and MVP is good at GSL format but the fact is MVP has won the tournaments with all of the formats you can think of in this world. He went to MLG only 2 times and won the first and placed 4th at the second. That's impressive result.
Yeah, idk why people are saying MVP is only good in GSL-style tournaments. He's showed time and time again he can beat the shit out of people with and without preparation; it is just that he doesn't go to as many foreign tournaments as MKP, which just makes people think he's not good at that style of tournament, but it's just flat-out false when you stop and think about it a little bit.
You can maybe make the case for NesTea (who seems more susceptible to jet-lag as well), but definitely not MVP. The only thing MVP's got going against him is that his wrists are basically shredded right now, and yet he's managed to win a GSL gold even in that condition.
Even Nestea has pretty good results at the foreign tournaments he goes to, 2nd blizzcon, 3rd ipl4, 3rd iron squid.
"second place finish at Red Bull Battlegrounds, where he placed higher than all of his StartaleQ teammates, and the 2GD Studio Arena, where he beat top foreigners in Huk and Stephano, he seemed to remind the world that he's still a championship class player."
The wording make it sound like he got 2nd place at 2GD studio, but he got first there (Beat HuK in the finals) ^^
On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
LOL MKP won 2 mlg's in a row, and has been dominating everyone. He was almost the consensus #1 player in the world until the zerg buff happened...
lol u serious? MKP won 2 MLG in a row, he passed ro16 lost because of the freaking snipe nerf and i don't think you're actually an fou SCRUB
On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
Code S really isnt the best indicator of skill. Anything can happen and its like a shit fest basically. I dont really think you can dispute MKP as the best Terran (DRG fan here)
GSL is basically a shit fest and anything can happen, what do you call rushing out an entire premier tournament in a weekend? GSL is where you can see who the most consistent players are, not just who is having a good weekend.
I assume you mean MLG or something like it in you first sentence?
Glad Fnatic managed to upset Prime, and I hope NSH can pull out a win tonight. :D
Yep typo, sorry.
On June 16 2012 10:57 TommyP wrote:
On June 16 2012 10:55 Dodgin wrote:
On June 16 2012 10:49 TommyP wrote:
On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
Code S really isnt the best indicator of skill. Anything can happen and its like a shit fest basically. I dont really think you can dispute MKP as the best Terran (DRG fan here)
GSL is basically a shit fest and anything can happen, what do you call rushing out an entire premier tournament in a weekend? GSL is where you can see who the most consistent players are, not just who is having a good weekend.
True, but it shows who can be the best in the world without preparing for a single opponent and what i meant by "shit fest" was there is just too much talent and you never have an easy game, where as in MLG you can play a foreigner, but yes pretty much all tournaments are shit fests.
I can agree with that, I still think winning a GSL with the current length of the season is by far the most impressive thing any player can accomplish though. Last year's GSL seasons were a lot shorter but now it really takes a champion to play well enough to win a 2-3 month long tournament.
I'll give an example, Slayers_Alicia.
Alicia was playing amazing at MLG and came home with second, beating MKP.
But Alicia will never win GSL ( feel free to quote me months/years down the road and laugh if I'm wrong ) because he is not a true champion. Marineking is also, not yet, a true champion. When Marineking wins the GSL he will be. This of course has nothing to do with player skill and we're getting a bit off topic here but I want people to understand just how hard it is to win GSL compared to a weekend tournament. This is why It's the most prestigious tournament in the world and lots of people will agree 1 gsl > multiple MLG wins.
And lots of people will agree multiple MLG wins is more impressive than 1 GSL win.
I don't get why yall are even arguing. Some people like the planning, mindgame skills in GSL and some people like the game sense needed for MLGs. As for which one's better - they are both opinions, there is not right or wrong answer.
For now the only objective reason GSL is considered better is because of the high level competition, but MLG keeps getting better and better players coming so ...
No the reason GSL is considered better is not only because the player pool is better, but also because the tournament is not finished in three days and there is no open bracket or pools difference which makes winning the tournament much much harder if you're not seeded. Players have an advantage before the tournament even begins. GSL also has bo5 for ro8 and semifinals and bo7 for finals, while MLG has bo3 all the way until the finals which is honestly ridiculous that the winners bracket finals is bo3.
And don't get me started on extended series.
Lol I've never heard that. I have heard people have problems with the fact that a tourney takes a couple months to complete - especially considering games take an average of what 30 minutes? And its not like boxing where the training and actual competition is so physically demanding you need a break in between 'competitions.'
SC2 is a strategy game, there's no reason why you need a month in between matches. Do you know of any chess tournaments that take 3 months to complete? No? I wonder why...
[QUOTE]On June 16 2012 10:31 NrGmonk wrote: [QUOTE]On June 16 2012 09:03 JJH777 wrote: [QUOTE]On June 16 2012 08:36 Birdfood wrote: [QUOTE]On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.[/QUOTE] LOL MKP won 2 mlg's in a row, and has been dominating everyone. He was almost the consensus #1 player in the world until the zerg buff happened... [/QUOTE]
Winning a GSL is more impressive than winning 10 MLGs.[/quote] If this were true, then Jjakji is considered a better player than MKP?
[QUOTE]
When JJakji won the GSL, yes we he was considered a better player... by far
On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
LOL MKP won 2 mlg's in a row, and has been dominating everyone. He was almost the consensus #1 player in the world until the zerg buff happened...
Winning a GSL is more impressive than winning 10 MLGs.
If this were true, then Jjakji is considered a better player than MKP?
When JJakji won the GSL, yes we he was considered a better player... by far
[QUOTE]On June 17 2012 01:35 MasterKang wrote: [QUOTE]On June 16 2012 10:31 NrGmonk wrote: [QUOTE]On June 16 2012 09:03 JJH777 wrote: [QUOTE]On June 16 2012 08:36 Birdfood wrote: [QUOTE]On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.[/QUOTE] LOL MKP won 2 mlg's in a row, and has been dominating everyone. He was almost the consensus #1 player in the world until the zerg buff happened... [/QUOTE]
Winning a GSL is more impressive than winning 10 MLGs.[/quote] If this were true, then Jjakji is considered a better player than MKP?
[QUOTE]
When JJakji won the GSL, yes we he was considered a better player... by far [/QUOTE]
Maybe GSL isn't the best at showcasing who the best players in the world are then lol...
*I apologize for absentmindedly stating MarineKingPrime was the #1 Terran player in the world in a previous version of this article. Mvp is the #1 player in the world, across all races.
I'd say MKP might have the best micro/ macro, but his decision making/ tactics are pretty terribad.
"Hey, I'm going to make shit loads of stuff and throw it at my opponent and try to make the trade better by microing a bit. Hopefully he'll fuck up in one of the engagements and I can snowball to a win."
It's good if the other player is a good bit worse than him, but that shit don't fly with, say, DRG.
Anywho, Startale (in addition to being my favorite team) has more Protoss, so I say they'll win 5-3.
On June 17 2012 07:09 ticklishmusic wrote: I'd say MKP might have the best micro/ macro, but his decision making/ tactics are pretty terribad.
"Hey, I'm going to make shit loads of stuff and throw it at my opponent and try to make the trade better by microing a bit. Hopefully he'll fuck up in one of the engagements and I can snowball to a win."
It's good if the other player is a good bit worse than him, but that shit don't fly with, say, DRG.
Anywho, Startale (in addition to being my favorite team) has more Protoss, so I say they'll win 5-3.
That's the same mentality that I hate from players like Gumiho and sC. If you actually watch Gumiho's TvZ, it's ridiculously sloppy. Half the time he forgets where he dropped his marines, and they afk idly or attack move into banelings without his notice. sC's style is similar to the Halby build where you just mass reactored marines in small clumps and cross your fingers that you will eventually overwhelm the zerg at some point. To me these styles are not strategic, they're boring and kind of brainless.
The best TvZ still comes from MMA who has some insane multitasking abilities, he pays attention to his drops and hits key buildings and expansions where the zerg cannot easily defend.
On June 17 2012 07:09 ticklishmusic wrote: I'd say MKP might have the best micro/ macro, but his decision making/ tactics are pretty terribad.
"Hey, I'm going to make shit loads of stuff and throw it at my opponent and try to make the trade better by microing a bit. Hopefully he'll fuck up in one of the engagements and I can snowball to a win."
It's good if the other player is a good bit worse than him, but that shit don't fly with, say, DRG.
Anywho, Startale (in addition to being my favorite team) has more Protoss, so I say they'll win 5-3.
That's the same mentality that I hate from players like Gumiho and sC. If you actually watch Gumiho's TvZ, it's ridiculously sloppy. Half the time he forgets where he dropped his marines, and they afk idly or attack move into banelings without his notice. sC's style is similar to the Halby build where you just mass reactored marines in small clumps and cross your fingers that you will eventually overwhelm the zerg at some point. To me these styles are not strategic, they're boring and kind of brainless.
The best TvZ still comes from MMA who has some insane multitasking abilities, he pays attention to his drops and hits key buildings and expansions where the zerg cannot easily defend.
I enjoyed MKP's monster macro/micro thing for about one tournament (MLG Spring Arena 1 I think) when it seemed that he would just overwhelm the other side (DRG mostly) with endless armies and amazing micro. It looked so cool. But then you realized, hey, this guy is just making the best of a bad engagement a lot of the time.
Now if only MMA could figure out how to beat Protoss...
On June 17 2012 07:09 ticklishmusic wrote: I'd say MKP might have the best micro/ macro, but his decision making/ tactics are pretty terribad.
"Hey, I'm going to make shit loads of stuff and throw it at my opponent and try to make the trade better by microing a bit. Hopefully he'll fuck up in one of the engagements and I can snowball to a win."
It's good if the other player is a good bit worse than him, but that shit don't fly with, say, DRG.
Anywho, Startale (in addition to being my favorite team) has more Protoss, so I say they'll win 5-3.
That's the same mentality that I hate from players like Gumiho and sC. If you actually watch Gumiho's TvZ, it's ridiculously sloppy. Half the time he forgets where he dropped his marines, and they afk idly or attack move into banelings without his notice. sC's style is similar to the Halby build where you just mass reactored marines in small clumps and cross your fingers that you will eventually overwhelm the zerg at some point. To me these styles are not strategic, they're boring and kind of brainless.
The best TvZ still comes from MMA who has some insane multitasking abilities, he pays attention to his drops and hits key buildings and expansions where the zerg cannot easily defend.
I enjoyed MKP's monster macro/micro thing for about one tournament (MLG Spring Arena 1 I think) when it seemed that he would just overwhelm the other side (DRG mostly) with endless armies and amazing micro. It looked so cool. But then you realized, hey, this guy is just making the best of a bad engagement a lot of the time.
Now if only MMA could figure out how to beat Protoss...
Game of the night was definitely Alive vs B4. Alive's TvZ is so impressive, that marine spitting was so insane that it is on par if not better than MKP's. I haven't been giving alive much credit so far, but he is slowly earning a place in my heart. <3
Maybe GSL isn't the best at showcasing who the best players in the world are then lol...
Not sure how long you've been following sc2 but when Jjakji won the gsl he was by FAR the better player, MMA and Mvp were the king of Terrans and MKP had no tournament wins and was failing to advance from the ro32/ro16 every season in the GSL.
On June 17 2012 07:09 ticklishmusic wrote: I'd say MKP might have the best micro/ macro, but his decision making/ tactics are pretty terribad.
"Hey, I'm going to make shit loads of stuff and throw it at my opponent and try to make the trade better by microing a bit. Hopefully he'll fuck up in one of the engagements and I can snowball to a win."
It's good if the other player is a good bit worse than him, but that shit don't fly with, say, DRG.
Anywho, Startale (in addition to being my favorite team) has more Protoss, so I say they'll win 5-3.
That's the same mentality that I hate from players like Gumiho and sC. If you actually watch Gumiho's TvZ, it's ridiculously sloppy. Half the time he forgets where he dropped his marines, and they afk idly or attack move into banelings without his notice. sC's style is similar to the Halby build where you just mass reactored marines in small clumps and cross your fingers that you will eventually overwhelm the zerg at some point. To me these styles are not strategic, they're boring and kind of brainless.
The best TvZ still comes from MMA who has some insane multitasking abilities, he pays attention to his drops and hits key buildings and expansions where the zerg cannot easily defend.
I enjoyed MKP's monster macro/micro thing for about one tournament (MLG Spring Arena 1 I think) when it seemed that he would just overwhelm the other side (DRG mostly) with endless armies and amazing micro. It looked so cool. But then you realized, hey, this guy is just making the best of a bad engagement a lot of the time.
Now if only MMA could figure out how to beat Protoss...
Game of the night was definitely Alive vs B4. Alive's TvZ is so impressive, that marine spitting was so insane that it is on par if not better than MKP's. I haven't been giving alive much credit so far, but he is slowly earning a place in my heart. <3
Its because he's MVP without 4 GSL championships, aka a faceless Korean macro terran.
There is a lot of variance in tourneys, so mkp never won a gsl MVP has 4, I think most progamers would agree mkp is the scarier player right now and has been for a couple months now. MVP is really smart, though, he figures out how to win matches.
Maybe GSL isn't the best at showcasing who the best players in the world are then lol...
Not sure how long you've been following sc2 but when Jjakji won the gsl he was by FAR the better player, MMA and Mvp were the king of Terrans and MKP had no tournament wins and was failing to advance from the ro32/ro16 every season in the GSL.
Put it this way. In a setting where your raw skills and physical/mental stamina matter more than mind game or build orders, I see MKP excel. The opposite is true for MVP.
I don't see MVP/Nestea winning MLG unless they are directly seeded into quarterfinals or so, but I definitely see them beating MKP/DRG in GSL.
EPT
FnaticRC Moon
FnaticRC aLive
Sage
