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[Code S] RO32 - Group F Preview/Group H Recap - Page 4

Forum Index > News
185 CommentsPost a Reply
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MrKn4rz
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany2153 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-11 17:40:32
April 11 2012 17:40 GMT
#61
This is going to be so sick. I say this every season(mostly to myself) but this is going to be the best GSL ever.
"We don't take kindly to folks who don't take kindly around here..."
vthree
Profile Joined November 2011
Hong Kong8039 Posts
April 11 2012 17:40 GMT
#62
PF vs Colossi?

Also, it is impossible to spread vs storms and kite effectively at the same time. Since Korean terrans are so good splitting vs banes, there is no reason not to spread vs storms if it was actually effective. Problem is once you spread, the chargelots will just kill all the bio 1 by 1. This is different from banelings since each banelings hit also kills a banelings. With chargelots, they just kill a marine and move onto the next.
Conreik
Profile Joined September 2011
France51 Posts
April 11 2012 17:41 GMT
#63
On April 12 2012 02:34 tdt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 12 2012 01:44 Olinim wrote:
On April 12 2012 01:35 S_SienZ wrote:
On April 12 2012 01:28 DayWalk3r wrote:
sad to see terrans whining about tvp lately ... i mean nothing much has changed in the matchup in the recent past, protoss just have terrans figuered out and push for late game, terrans need to feel the pain protoss had to endure for a majority of last year ...

Squirtle and Mma to advance, spot on wax

It's reasonings like this that make me convinced that certain Protoss players don't give a damn about balance but were merely upset that no Protoss won tournaments back in the sad zealot days.

They don't really win these days either. MC is the only protoss who won a tournament in 2012.



Every professional stat protoss is behind. Win rates, tounament wins, representation, so all terran is left to talk about is annecdotal single games and they go crazy when protoss win. In thier mind protoss is never supposed to win I think.


Annecdotal games and also the fact that you won't find a single Terran that states that late game TvP is totally balanced.
ooozer
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany231 Posts
April 11 2012 17:42 GMT
#64
OP's ist hella biased in my opinion.

Yes, as a protoss player I do admit,: Late Game PvT favors toss, even though it's not unbeatable (I fear blanket emp the most).
But, instead of only demanding stronger late game, terrans should start consider the overall matchup. Balancing the terran late game would mean, that they own protoss early game, have a slight edge in the mid and equal chances late game. That's not balanced aswell. Strenghten terrans late game also means that early and early to mid game has to be weakened. How are you going to accomplish that? Buffing mech? That would mean terrans get 2 possible late game paths (bio can still kill a protoss deathball) whereas protoss only has their 1-boring-deathball? that wouldn't be fair aswell. Making bio weaker makes protoss 2 base pushes stronger, also imbalanced.

So instead of complaining about toss, why not watch how the meta game evolves? Exactly the same thing terrans said to toss in the sad-zealot-period. 2 toss advances, protoss imba? What about the time we had almost no toss in GSL? Are the statistics favouring toss?Do toss win tournaments left an right? Squirtle was the only toss after pool play, think of that..
MrKn4rz
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany2153 Posts
April 11 2012 17:42 GMT
#65
Imo its still better to spread then to eat a storm tbh.
"We don't take kindly to folks who don't take kindly around here..."
SpiZz
Profile Joined February 2008
112 Posts
April 11 2012 17:49 GMT
#66
Two protoss player advance and a TL-frontpage article claims that PvT is imbalanced?
What has this site become ...
Conreik
Profile Joined September 2011
France51 Posts
April 11 2012 17:49 GMT
#67
On April 12 2012 02:42 ooozer wrote:
OP's ist hella biased in my opinion.

Yes, as a protoss player I do admit,: Late Game PvT favors toss, even though it's not unbeatable (I fear blanket emp the most).
But, instead of only demanding stronger late game, terrans should start consider the overall matchup. Balancing the terran late game would mean, that they own protoss early game, have a slight edge in the mid and equal chances late game. That's not balanced aswell. Strenghten terrans late game also means that early and early to mid game has to be weakened. How are you going to accomplish that? Buffing mech? That would mean terrans get 2 possible late game paths (bio can still kill a protoss deathball) whereas protoss only has their 1-boring-deathball? that wouldn't be fair aswell. Making bio weaker makes protoss 2 base pushes stronger, also imbalanced.

So instead of complaining about toss, why not watch how the meta game evolves? Exactly the same thing terrans said to toss in the sad-zealot-period. 2 toss advances, protoss imba? What about the time we had almost no toss in GSL? Are the statistics favouring toss?Do toss win tournaments left an right? Squirtle was the only toss after pool play, think of that..


They should weaken Protoss late game and Terran early game. Put a buff to the bunker so we can hold protosses all ins a bit better and I would be happy with it. Or remove Protoss and redesign it but I think that's out of the question ! :D
jlake02
Profile Joined January 2011
United States395 Posts
April 11 2012 17:50 GMT
#68
NaDa fighting!
compLexity Gaming - @coL_Lake
ratm
Profile Joined April 2012
8 Posts
April 11 2012 17:54 GMT
#69
Guys, Parting only wins the fight, because he has frikking much ht´s.le seemed to be at least more than 10. and only of ht´s he won. warping hts in requires no skill und pushing the t-button don´t do it too. ome on . it so freaking lame to see a toss army obliterating a terran ones, because of storm. And that in every lategame. And if terrans started playing allin games, because it has no sense for them to go to lategame, toss are whining and whining. Result: Blizzard nerfs terran units or Rax build time even more, that the toss is invited to 6gate or 1base colossi all-in us.
It makes no sense, it makes no sense.
HolyArrow
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7116 Posts
April 11 2012 17:56 GMT
#70
On April 12 2012 02:49 Conreik wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 12 2012 02:42 ooozer wrote:
OP's ist hella biased in my opinion.

Yes, as a protoss player I do admit,: Late Game PvT favors toss, even though it's not unbeatable (I fear blanket emp the most).
But, instead of only demanding stronger late game, terrans should start consider the overall matchup. Balancing the terran late game would mean, that they own protoss early game, have a slight edge in the mid and equal chances late game. That's not balanced aswell. Strenghten terrans late game also means that early and early to mid game has to be weakened. How are you going to accomplish that? Buffing mech? That would mean terrans get 2 possible late game paths (bio can still kill a protoss deathball) whereas protoss only has their 1-boring-deathball? that wouldn't be fair aswell. Making bio weaker makes protoss 2 base pushes stronger, also imbalanced.

So instead of complaining about toss, why not watch how the meta game evolves? Exactly the same thing terrans said to toss in the sad-zealot-period. 2 toss advances, protoss imba? What about the time we had almost no toss in GSL? Are the statistics favouring toss?Do toss win tournaments left an right? Squirtle was the only toss after pool play, think of that..


They should weaken Protoss late game and Terran early game. Put a buff to the bunker so we can hold protosses all ins a bit better and I would be happy with it. Or remove Protoss and redesign it but I think that's out of the question ! :D


If you buff the Bunker, I feel really sorry for Zerg players who have to deal with Bunker pressure constantly >_>

I say tweak the midgame a bit in P's favor and the lategame a bit in T's favor and you've got a better MU overall.
tdt
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3179 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-11 17:59:07
April 11 2012 17:56 GMT
#71
On April 12 2012 02:41 Conreik wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 12 2012 02:34 tdt wrote:
On April 12 2012 01:44 Olinim wrote:
On April 12 2012 01:35 S_SienZ wrote:
On April 12 2012 01:28 DayWalk3r wrote:
sad to see terrans whining about tvp lately ... i mean nothing much has changed in the matchup in the recent past, protoss just have terrans figuered out and push for late game, terrans need to feel the pain protoss had to endure for a majority of last year ...

Squirtle and Mma to advance, spot on wax

It's reasonings like this that make me convinced that certain Protoss players don't give a damn about balance but were merely upset that no Protoss won tournaments back in the sad zealot days.

They don't really win these days either. MC is the only protoss who won a tournament in 2012.



Every professional stat protoss is behind. Win rates, tounament wins, representation, so all terran is left to talk about is annecdotal single games and they go crazy when protoss win. In thier mind protoss is never supposed to win I think.


Annecdotal games and also the fact that you won't find a single Terran that states that late game TvP is totally balanced.

They might not but there are problems with that complaint when they don't spread and don't use ghosts well. When they do, I've seen Terran mow through a late game protoss amry with good EMPs just as much as the other way with storms. There is also late game unexplored issues like MMM has been mainstay for almost two years and needs to deveolp beyond that.

Annecdotal games from best TvPer in the world is like whining how imba terran is when MMA demolished Zerg. Doesnt wash.
MC for president
-Kira
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
352 Posts
April 11 2012 17:57 GMT
#72
The balance whine seems out of place. What is few weeks of P>T compared to few months of T>P right before current state?
ratm
Profile Joined April 2012
8 Posts
April 11 2012 18:02 GMT
#73
i dont know all the whines of the EMP: it reduces the life in a toss army to 33-50%. All shield are away. Storm kills if u stay more than 2 sec in there ur marine and reduce the half life of ur marauder. AND DODGING storms is a lot more stressful than get a emp, because of no observer in front of ur army
bluegarfield
Profile Joined December 2010
Singapore1128 Posts
April 11 2012 18:05 GMT
#74
I may not understand fully the TvP matchups, but to me, it seems like what happened late 2010 early 2011 when MC dominate all terran with his 1gate expo into 6gate burst, utilizing his imba FF usage. he looked unbeatable at times until terran figured out his timing and attack his weakness. i think the same is happening right now, what PartinG is doing does leave some holes in his defense, i believe mkp hit a nice timing a few times when playing vs parting.
this mu just needs some times to develop again. it has been forever since protoss last come up with new strats anyway.
ELqQQT_T
Psychobabas
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
2531 Posts
April 11 2012 18:08 GMT
#75
THANK YOU TL.net

For showing even in news report that TvP has got some serious problems.

Dustin Browder/ David Kim do something!
ooozer
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany231 Posts
April 11 2012 18:11 GMT
#76
On April 12 2012 02:49 Conreik wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 12 2012 02:42 ooozer wrote:
OP's ist hella biased in my opinion.

Yes, as a protoss player I do admit,: Late Game PvT favors toss, even though it's not unbeatable (I fear blanket emp the most).
But, instead of only demanding stronger late game, terrans should start consider the overall matchup. Balancing the terran late game would mean, that they own protoss early game, have a slight edge in the mid and equal chances late game. That's not balanced aswell. Strenghten terrans late game also means that early and early to mid game has to be weakened. How are you going to accomplish that? Buffing mech? That would mean terrans get 2 possible late game paths (bio can still kill a protoss deathball) whereas protoss only has their 1-boring-deathball? that wouldn't be fair aswell. Making bio weaker makes protoss 2 base pushes stronger, also imbalanced.

So instead of complaining about toss, why not watch how the meta game evolves? Exactly the same thing terrans said to toss in the sad-zealot-period. 2 toss advances, protoss imba? What about the time we had almost no toss in GSL? Are the statistics favouring toss?Do toss win tournaments left an right? Squirtle was the only toss after pool play, think of that..


They should weaken Protoss late game and Terran early game. Put a buff to the bunker so we can hold protosses all ins a bit better and I would be happy with it. Or remove Protoss and redesign it but I think that's out of the question ! :D



Yeah and forget about Zerg. Zerg has the strongest late game (as long as they don't get flushed down the archon toilet). Weaken the protoss death ball breaks PvZ aswell...

Note that Protoss are playing extremly greedy recently (1 Gate (double) expand, Nexus first) without getting punished. Economical cheese is extremly hard to deal with withouth pressure. 1 rax gas(less) FE or double expand is not what i call a pressure build
tdt
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3179 Posts
April 11 2012 18:12 GMT
#77
On April 12 2012 03:05 bluegarfield wrote:
I may not understand fully the TvP matchups, but to me, it seems like what happened late 2010 early 2011 when MC dominate all terran with his 1gate expo into 6gate burst, utilizing his imba FF usage. he looked unbeatable at times until terran figured out his timing and attack his weakness. i think the same is happening right now, what PartinG is doing does leave some holes in his defense, i believe mkp hit a nice timing a few times when playing vs parting.
this mu just needs some times to develop again. it has been forever since protoss last come up with new strats anyway.

That's the way I feel. It's new. Will get figuered out either by not letting PartinG get that far by finding holes in his game or a counter. It's not like they don't have the tools and do. MKP shows how to beat it often, you just have to be good, spread, use ghost/scans well.
MC for president
HaXXspetten
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Sweden15718 Posts
April 11 2012 18:14 GMT
#78
On April 12 2012 02:42 ooozer wrote:
OP's ist hella biased in my opinion.

Yes, as a protoss player I do admit,: Late Game PvT favors toss, even though it's not unbeatable (I fear blanket emp the most).
But, instead of only demanding stronger late game, terrans should start consider the overall matchup. Balancing the terran late game would mean, that they own protoss early game, have a slight edge in the mid and equal chances late game. That's not balanced aswell. Strenghten terrans late game also means that early and early to mid game has to be weakened. How are you going to accomplish that? Buffing mech? That would mean terrans get 2 possible late game paths (bio can still kill a protoss deathball) whereas protoss only has their 1-boring-deathball? that wouldn't be fair aswell. Making bio weaker makes protoss 2 base pushes stronger, also imbalanced.

So instead of complaining about toss, why not watch how the meta game evolves? Exactly the same thing terrans said to toss in the sad-zealot-period. 2 toss advances, protoss imba? What about the time we had almost no toss in GSL? Are the statistics favouring toss?Do toss win tournaments left an right? Squirtle was the only toss after pool play, think of that..

Well said
oxxo
Profile Joined February 2010
988 Posts
April 11 2012 18:16 GMT
#79
The stupidest part about the TvP matchup is that it's been known to be broken for ages, people (including pros) were pointing out the late game issues over a year ago. The bigger maps and more and more P 'learning to play' (go HT AND colossus, not just one of the above) have just made it more and more noticeable.
Chr15t
Profile Joined March 2011
Denmark1103 Posts
April 11 2012 18:30 GMT
#80
On April 12 2012 01:21 Waxangel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 12 2012 01:19 Conreik wrote:
P vs. T_T

I could'nt have made a better title. Even with godly micro, TvP seems unwinnable these days. The Protoss excuse "Yeah but if you play like a code S player, the MU is balanced" can no longer be used and I hope modifications will be made considering this MU.


eh, Oz was a surprise, but PartinG is one of those single handedly makes a matchup look imba guy :O


That , and every TvP i play on ladder. Its "keep protoss on 2 base or die trying" :D
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
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