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Forum Index > News
185 CommentsPost a Reply
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Hiea
Profile Joined March 2012
Denmark1538 Posts
April 11 2012 17:04 GMT
#41
I believe Polt have commented on TvP balance in the Mr. Chae pre-game show

Mr. Chae : Who do you expect to meet in winners match?
Polt : Oz
Mr. Chae : Why?
Polt : Because his protoss.
Conreik
Profile Joined September 2011
France51 Posts
April 11 2012 17:07 GMT
#42
On April 12 2012 02:02 S_SienZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 12 2012 01:59 phyren wrote:
Terrans may be rightfully complaining about late game tvp, but early through mid game still tends to favor the terran. This doesn't mean the mu is balanced, but it does make it annoying to see all this terran whining.


Speaking as a T, I'd much rather the MU be more balanced throughout the various stages of the game rather than it's current one. It's quite sickening that most of the time you can correctly predict the winner of a TvP just by looking at the length of the replay.


Then if it's true, they should nerf terran early game and nerf protoss late game. Even if I would like to hear some arguments about early game terran strength when they get murdered by 6 gate all ins.

On April 12 2012 01:56 m0ck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 12 2012 01:46 Conreik wrote:
On April 12 2012 01:37 Laserist wrote:
It take nearly a whole year for protoss to figure out PvT, now the time has come for terran players.
Did you forget the crying zealot caps?


The thing is, there is nothing left to discover, all the counters have been found, you need perfect EMP's, split, kitting, viking to colossus ratio, etc.
It's not like they were a secret composition that we did not have tried already.
Let's use this argument for PvZ then, Zerg crushes protoss with 12 min max on roaches and a lot of protoss stated that every strat have already been tried against it and nothing works. Stephano, the best foreigner Zerg even says ZvP is imbalanced and should be fixed.
Every Terran I know complain about late game TvP. The only perfectly even match up at the moment is TvZ imo.

I know you're kidding, right?

*about TvZ being balanced, that is


TvZ seems balanced to me ! Late game is harder after the ghost patch but if you drop every-fucking-where, you can still kill the zerg.
jubil
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2602 Posts
April 11 2012 17:09 GMT
#43
Really sad for Polt, thought his once-legendary TvP could pull him through...

For tonight, I'm going out on a limb and predicting MMA won't make it out of the group. Squirtle will, and either Leenock or Nada can upset MMA.
Marineking-Polt-Maru-Fantasy-Solar-Xenocider-Suppy fighting!
hoivenmayven
Profile Joined April 2011
United States134 Posts
April 11 2012 17:10 GMT
#44
How in the world is TvZ coming up? There is already a/many dedicated balance threads.

Whole point of OP was that Parting played so freaking good that he made the matchup look imba.
SeaSwift
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Scotland4486 Posts
April 11 2012 17:14 GMT
#45
TvP - hard for Protoss midgame, hard for Terran lategame.

There was a thread not long ago about MU winrates at different periods of time in the game. Terran had 60-70% winrate in the midgame (around 10-15 minutes), and Protoss had the same lategame (20-30 minutes). The really interesting thing was that winrates converged to 50% each at 35 minutes plus, because then the underdeveloped super-lategame comes into play, with nukes and Ravens and the Protoss constantly switching between Colossus and HTs etc.
MilAgro
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Germany102 Posts
April 11 2012 17:17 GMT
#46
I think the games were closer than it is stated here. It was alot of back and forth with critical moments for the protoss.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Sc2MilAgro
SkaPunk
Profile Joined October 2010
United States471 Posts
April 11 2012 17:17 GMT
#47
I've been thinking about pvt for like the last 5 months, because one of my teammates cries about it constantly. I sort of think TvZ and the 1-1-1 is the reason terrans are bad at TvP. What I mean is in TvZ the game has become so standard and terrans are used to that, they aren't innovating a ton. In PvT we see new styles created QUITE frequently. Immo pressure, fast 3 base, fast storm, colo pressure into storm and storm into 3 base. Terrans on the other hand pretty much go gasless expand into 3 rax starport. In the midgame Terran attacks and protoss has to try to survive until the late game. Suddenly in the late game, T continues to try to kill the protoss, but the defensive adv + splash means protoss wins. I'd like to see a terran try to solve this problem by playing really aggressive like usual midgame, and then transition into extremely defensive planetary's everywhere type style and try to take the map slowly while the protoss has to be super aggressive. Or just anything, clearly Terrans are more content to complain and all in early than to innovate in the late game. Also the 1-1-1. They just stopped trying to do new stuff during the 3 or 4 months that it was dominate, other than the 2 rax reactor/tech lab. Terrans can keep banking on the EZ as hell early/mid game win and keep dying to the late game, or they can try to fix the late game problems.
Team Fallacy
HaXXspetten
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Sweden15718 Posts
April 11 2012 17:18 GMT
#48
On April 12 2012 02:04 Hiea wrote:
I believe Polt have commented on TvP balance in the Mr. Chae pre-game show

Mr. Chae : Who do you expect to meet in winners match?
Polt : Oz
Mr. Chae : Why?
Polt : Because his protoss.

Because Polt sounded sooo serious in that interview >.>
Gladiator6
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden7024 Posts
April 11 2012 17:18 GMT
#49
On April 12 2012 01:29 Waxangel wrote:
MKP alone makes TvP look stupidly imba -_-

buuuut he does lose to PartinG when the games go late ^_^;


That depends on how you see it, regarding some people I've heard 3 marauders and 6 vikings can beat 18 zealots and 6 stalkers along with 8 HT's I believe. Haha!
Flying, sOs, free, Light, Soulkey & ZerO
Hiea
Profile Joined March 2012
Denmark1538 Posts
April 11 2012 17:19 GMT
#50
On April 12 2012 02:18 HaXXspetten wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 12 2012 02:04 Hiea wrote:
I believe Polt have commented on TvP balance in the Mr. Chae pre-game show

Mr. Chae : Who do you expect to meet in winners match?
Polt : Oz
Mr. Chae : Why?
Polt : Because his protoss.

Because Polt sounded sooo serious in that interview >.>


He did, and i'm also really serious about that post.
tdt
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3179 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-11 17:23:10
April 11 2012 17:19 GMT
#51
Mod balance whining? Good example to set. Crying about late game when Terran lumps everything together to get stormed, fails thier 100 HP EMPs or spread cloakable ghosts is just sour grapes. PartinG did spread, did attack from multiple angles, landed perfect storms, just played better nothing to do with balance.
MC for president
Gorlin
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2753 Posts
April 11 2012 17:23 GMT
#52
On April 12 2012 01:21 Waxangel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 12 2012 01:19 Conreik wrote:
P vs. T_T

I could'nt have made a better title. Even with godly micro, TvP seems unwinnable these days. The Protoss excuse "Yeah but if you play like a code S player, the MU is balanced" can no longer be used and I hope modifications will be made considering this MU.


eh, Oz was a surprise, but PartinG is one of those single handedly makes a matchup look imba guy :O

Agreed, there are possible hints of imbalance, but that's like saying TvZ is imbalanced because MMA always wins it. He's just really good at it, just like Parting is just really good at PvT.
Conreik
Profile Joined September 2011
France51 Posts
April 11 2012 17:23 GMT
#53
On April 12 2012 02:17 SkaPunk wrote:
I've been thinking about pvt for like the last 5 months, because one of my teammates cries about it constantly. I sort of think TvZ and the 1-1-1 is the reason terrans are bad at TvP. What I mean is in TvZ the game has become so standard and terrans are used to that, they aren't innovating a ton. In PvT we see new styles created QUITE frequently. Immo pressure, fast 3 base, fast storm, colo pressure into storm and storm into 3 base. Terrans on the other hand pretty much go gasless expand into 3 rax starport. In the midgame Terran attacks and protoss has to try to survive until the late game. Suddenly in the late game, T continues to try to kill the protoss, but the defensive adv + splash means protoss wins. I'd like to see a terran try to solve this problem by playing really aggressive like usual midgame, and then transition into extremely defensive planetary's everywhere type style and try to take the map slowly while the protoss has to be super aggressive. Or just anything, clearly Terrans are more content to complain and all in early than to innovate in the late game. Also the 1-1-1. They just stopped trying to do new stuff during the 3 or 4 months that it was dominate, other than the 2 rax reactor/tech lab. Terrans can keep banking on the EZ as hell early/mid game win and keep dying to the late game, or they can try to fix the late game problems.


If you go hyper defensive when the toss got his deathball, you allow him to add countless number of gates and take countless amount of expansions and you just loose. Terrans learn in platinum that if they want to get in higher leagues, they need to put pressure at all costs. If you don't, the opponent remakes an army 10 times faster than you with larvaes/warp ins and you die.
SeaSwift
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Scotland4486 Posts
April 11 2012 17:24 GMT
#54
Mods are allowed to comment on balance, remember the tree.hugger post after MC's 0-3 loss to Puma at IEM Cologne?
Laplaces_imp
Profile Joined January 2012
368 Posts
April 11 2012 17:27 GMT
#55
Really want to see MMA and Leenock, but squirtle terrified me with his IPL run. getting out of the open bracket alone was an amazing accomplishment, but the line of people he went through afterwards to get to the finals was simply unbelievable. hard to see him not going RO8 at least this GSL
SkaPunk
Profile Joined October 2010
United States471 Posts
April 11 2012 17:28 GMT
#56
On April 12 2012 02:23 Conreik wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 12 2012 02:17 SkaPunk wrote:
I've been thinking about pvt for like the last 5 months, because one of my teammates cries about it constantly. I sort of think TvZ and the 1-1-1 is the reason terrans are bad at TvP. What I mean is in TvZ the game has become so standard and terrans are used to that, they aren't innovating a ton. In PvT we see new styles created QUITE frequently. Immo pressure, fast 3 base, fast storm, colo pressure into storm and storm into 3 base. Terrans on the other hand pretty much go gasless expand into 3 rax starport. In the midgame Terran attacks and protoss has to try to survive until the late game. Suddenly in the late game, T continues to try to kill the protoss, but the defensive adv + splash means protoss wins. I'd like to see a terran try to solve this problem by playing really aggressive like usual midgame, and then transition into extremely defensive planetary's everywhere type style and try to take the map slowly while the protoss has to be super aggressive. Or just anything, clearly Terrans are more content to complain and all in early than to innovate in the late game. Also the 1-1-1. They just stopped trying to do new stuff during the 3 or 4 months that it was dominate, other than the 2 rax reactor/tech lab. Terrans can keep banking on the EZ as hell early/mid game win and keep dying to the late game, or they can try to fix the late game problems.


If you go hyper defensive when the toss got his deathball, you allow him to add countless number of gates and take countless amount of expansions and you just loose. Terrans learn in platinum that if they want to get in higher leagues, they need to put pressure at all costs. If you don't, the opponent remakes an army 10 times faster than you with larvaes/warp ins and you die.


I mean mid game early late game yeah, I agree. But when you hide around PFs warp ins dont matter. You learn in platinum as a protoss that if you attack into a PF you lose.
Team Fallacy
Conreik
Profile Joined September 2011
France51 Posts
April 11 2012 17:34 GMT
#57
On April 12 2012 02:28 SkaPunk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 12 2012 02:23 Conreik wrote:
On April 12 2012 02:17 SkaPunk wrote:
I've been thinking about pvt for like the last 5 months, because one of my teammates cries about it constantly. I sort of think TvZ and the 1-1-1 is the reason terrans are bad at TvP. What I mean is in TvZ the game has become so standard and terrans are used to that, they aren't innovating a ton. In PvT we see new styles created QUITE frequently. Immo pressure, fast 3 base, fast storm, colo pressure into storm and storm into 3 base. Terrans on the other hand pretty much go gasless expand into 3 rax starport. In the midgame Terran attacks and protoss has to try to survive until the late game. Suddenly in the late game, T continues to try to kill the protoss, but the defensive adv + splash means protoss wins. I'd like to see a terran try to solve this problem by playing really aggressive like usual midgame, and then transition into extremely defensive planetary's everywhere type style and try to take the map slowly while the protoss has to be super aggressive. Or just anything, clearly Terrans are more content to complain and all in early than to innovate in the late game. Also the 1-1-1. They just stopped trying to do new stuff during the 3 or 4 months that it was dominate, other than the 2 rax reactor/tech lab. Terrans can keep banking on the EZ as hell early/mid game win and keep dying to the late game, or they can try to fix the late game problems.


If you go hyper defensive when the toss got his deathball, you allow him to add countless number of gates and take countless amount of expansions and you just loose. Terrans learn in platinum that if they want to get in higher leagues, they need to put pressure at all costs. If you don't, the opponent remakes an army 10 times faster than you with larvaes/warp ins and you die.


I mean mid game early late game yeah, I agree. But when you hide around PFs warp ins dont matter. You learn in platinum as a protoss that if you attack into a PF you lose.


Chargelotes murder PF way too fast, I don't see this strat working.
tdt
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3179 Posts
April 11 2012 17:34 GMT
#58
On April 12 2012 01:44 Olinim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 12 2012 01:35 S_SienZ wrote:
On April 12 2012 01:28 DayWalk3r wrote:
sad to see terrans whining about tvp lately ... i mean nothing much has changed in the matchup in the recent past, protoss just have terrans figuered out and push for late game, terrans need to feel the pain protoss had to endure for a majority of last year ...

Squirtle and Mma to advance, spot on wax

It's reasonings like this that make me convinced that certain Protoss players don't give a damn about balance but were merely upset that no Protoss won tournaments back in the sad zealot days.

They don't really win these days either. MC is the only protoss who won a tournament in 2012.



Every professional stat protoss is behind. Win rates, tounament wins, representation, so all terran is left to talk about is annecdotal single games and they go crazy when protoss win. In thier mind protoss is never supposed to win I think.
MC for president
Flanq
Profile Joined July 2011
United Kingdom2694 Posts
April 11 2012 17:35 GMT
#59
Is there any information that someone can post about the forge fast expand build?
tdt
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3179 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-11 17:40:12
April 11 2012 17:39 GMT
#60
On April 12 2012 02:24 SeaSwift wrote:
Mods are allowed to comment on balance, remember the tree.hugger post after MC's 0-3 loss to Puma at IEM Cologne?

Not really, I applogize then. Just seems like bad example is all for a place that does not toterate it.
MC for president
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