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SQ Leaderboard by Region - Page 12

Forum Index > News
393 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 10 11 12 13 14 20 Next All
shammythefox
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom286 Posts
October 29 2011 14:02 GMT
#221
I'd like to see some analysis on the argument that SQ is less useful or even sometimes not beneficial to protoss, owing to their gas dependancy, the tendency to stockpile unspent minerals is often unavoidable or indeed beneficial (allows the instant production of the required amount of wall+cannons for an expansion or the huge reinforcement warpins, although this factor also applies to zerg play.) It'd be nice to see if you could find any mathematical way of analysing this, as it seems your data on the protoss race shows a discrepancy that goes far beyond variance.
CBenni
Profile Joined May 2011
12 Posts
October 29 2011 14:07 GMT
#222
Sadly, SQ isnt anything at all.
I have an avg sq of 78 and im gold. My max was 94, and about 30% of my games are in grandmaster level SQs. The problem is, I dont get the right units and i get them too slow, eventhough in a lot of games my income is almost equivalent to a masters player.

Another thing is that i loose a ton of games vs harassment, dts, mutas etc. Thats what really is important in SC2, the SQ is almost nothing; I wish it were different

In top notch pro levels, the SQ doesnt tell alot either. Obviously you cant win mlg w/ a spending quotient of 30, but it does not matter if you have 90 or 100, as the scale is nonlinear, especially for high SQs and Avg Incomes.
Random is OP!
Erandorr
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
2283 Posts
October 29 2011 14:08 GMT
#223
Amazing read, but goody on a list for GOOD macro? something is not right here..
Tal0n
Profile Joined April 2010
United States175 Posts
October 29 2011 14:14 GMT
#224
i'm glad this made it it on the front page of TL. i read the original post too, and this one just stunned me again :D
rpgalon
Profile Joined April 2011
Brazil1069 Posts
October 29 2011 14:15 GMT
#225
if you want to warp in 5 stalkers, you need to pile up 625/250, for every warp gate cycle you need another 625/250, all game long.

you can't use SQ to compare players from diferent races. that is obvious.
badog
Euronyme
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden3804 Posts
October 29 2011 14:15 GMT
#226
On October 29 2011 22:59 nucLeaRTV wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2011 22:38 Euronyme wrote:
Bitbybit.Prime would have the lowest highest SQ in the world. By far.


Oh really?


Well obviously? He doesn't have any minerals, so it'll be through the roof!
I bet i can maı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ke you wipe your screen.
Erasme
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Bahamas15899 Posts
October 29 2011 14:22 GMT
#227
Can I ask how do you calculate it ? I don't have much time atm, so I took a quick look at the thread and couldn't find it ^^
From what I saw, great post !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lxwFEB6FI “‘Drain the swamp’? Stupid saying, means nothing, but you guys loved it so I kept saying it.”
Math.random();
Profile Joined July 2011
433 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-29 14:32:32
October 29 2011 14:31 GMT
#228
In: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=266019

http://beijers.eu/share/sq.html
with this formula
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
mrlie3
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada350 Posts
October 29 2011 14:44 GMT
#229
Great work man!

Btw, in AM server, EGDeMusLiM is actually EGPuma (or shared account with Puma from what I heard), and BcuzofuProS is FnaticRain. Shared account between progamers might be the reason some players have different SQ between two servers or between ladder and tournament.
Crimson @ Clan CORE | ESFI World Translator
Cosmology
Profile Joined September 2011
Canada360 Posts
October 29 2011 14:46 GMT
#230
How can SQbe accurate for Zerg? Zerg is based around pooling minerals in the mid game to make 15+ units at a time. And In late game you must pool enough minerals to insta remax.

I think if idra was Terran or toss his sq would be highest.
Somewhere, something amazing is waiting to be known.
Lewan72
Profile Joined April 2011
United States381 Posts
October 29 2011 14:48 GMT
#231
Bomber has the highest SQ....of course. and Idra is pretty far up there too, hes a macro/mechanics beast
MC / Hero / MMA / Bomber / Coca / Suppy
Legatus
Profile Joined August 2010
65 Posts
October 29 2011 15:05 GMT
#232
On October 29 2011 23:46 Cosmology wrote:
How can SQbe accurate for Zerg? Zerg is based around pooling minerals in the mid game to make 15+ units at a time. And In late game you must pool enough minerals to insta remax.

I think if idra was Terran or toss his sq would be highest.

How would IdrA's SQ be the highest as Protoss? You need to let resources accumulate until you warp in a whole production cycle. Did you miss the whole discussion in this thread of why Protoss players have lower SQs?
BluePanther
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2776 Posts
October 29 2011 15:09 GMT
#233
On October 29 2011 23:07 CBenni wrote:
Sadly, SQ isnt anything at all.
I have an avg sq of 78 and im gold. My max was 94, and about 30% of my games are in grandmaster level SQs. The problem is, I dont get the right units and i get them too slow, eventhough in a lot of games my income is almost equivalent to a masters player.

Another thing is that i loose a ton of games vs harassment, dts, mutas etc. Thats what really is important in SC2, the SQ is almost nothing; I wish it were different

In top notch pro levels, the SQ doesnt tell alot either. Obviously you cant win mlg w/ a spending quotient of 30, but it does not matter if you have 90 or 100, as the scale is nonlinear, especially for high SQs and Avg Incomes.



This likely has to do with a lower overall income, not poor unit selection. It's still poor macro. It's funny, since I first read this guys theory I've noticed it a lot in the score screens of my 4v4r games. The higher the league the player is, you'll see a higher income generated and lower floated mineral total at the end. And it's rather significant. The gap between gold -> masters (the range of players i play) is almost entirely macro oriented, not micro like most people at the gold level tend to think. Sure, micro comes into play at times, but in general terms, the better macro players get higher rankings in the end.
hypercube
Profile Joined April 2010
Hungary2735 Posts
October 29 2011 15:22 GMT
#234
Very impressive analysis. The next frontier seems to be distinguishing between deliberate pooling and macro slips.
"Sending people in rockets to other planets is a waste of money better spent on sending rockets into people on this planet."
DanSouthy
Profile Joined May 2011
United Kingdom5 Posts
October 29 2011 15:23 GMT
#235
I think the reason you don't see a huge difference between P and T is because even though it is possible for T to queue up as soon as they have the resources too do so, they don't. Players queue in waves, as units are almost complete. If you are producing marines out of 3 rax you will queue all the rax at the same time, not each marine as you get 50 minerals.
Usagi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Spain1647 Posts
October 29 2011 15:23 GMT
#236
The protoss bias is quite clear even without the other regional data, but would be nice to confirm it.

The different production cicles for each race mean we should analyze more data to find trends, and in the end it should result in finding a factor to weigh the results depending on each race. I for example find that the way terran can queue up units in their production buildings can be also an underlying factor to a higher SQ.

What to do? analyze more data, find trends, and then find a weighing factor for each race.
I like this article a lot! +1
Usagi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Spain1647 Posts
October 29 2011 15:25 GMT
#237
On October 30 2011 00:22 hypercube wrote:
Very impressive analysis. The next frontier seems to be distinguishing between deliberate pooling and macro slips.


That should be put into thought, and simply remove from the sample every game that goes above a certain parameters like, money piling when some player is 200/200
sirrobert5
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United Kingdom62 Posts
October 29 2011 15:30 GMT
#238
Great analysis man very impressed . Just a couple of points that maybe dont show up in the analysis:

1.SQ probably scewed in Terrans favour by their ability to queue units
2.SQ might disfavour the other two races slightly more, due to the 'rounds of units' mechanic used by Protoss and Zerg (Warpgate rounds and production rounds after lava injects)

Hard to say how to account for these problems though

Overall great stuff, nice to see how in-depth we can start to quantify a players ability to macro. Also good to see my fellow Brit DeMuslim topping the charts
durza
Profile Joined August 2009
United States667 Posts
October 29 2011 15:32 GMT
#239
Really amazing stuff, well obviously SQ isn't the end all be all, it is still a cool thing to look at. I think it would be really amazing if the research could be expanded to include not only the other ladders but other major tournaments including past mlgs, gsl ect.
Champi
Profile Joined March 2010
1422 Posts
October 29 2011 15:36 GMT
#240
so basically ur saying Ret is good?

Thanks, good to know :D

j/k this is an amazing piece of work and its clear uve spent some time and brainpower on it, i dont believe any of ur findings really prove anything or make any sort of ground breaking discovery in terms of how skill works and winning in sc2 works or anything like that, but it is deffinitely interesting information to play around with
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