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On March 15 2011 03:53 robertdinh wrote:
Didn't idra have the same "nurture" for sc2 ever since beta, and still not get to the absolute top?
Different genetics have different pros and cons, it's "racist" to understand that apparently but the sooner people deal with that reality the better.
Just like average penis sizes, computational skills, sickle cell anemia etc.
Nothing is determined 100% by race alone though, obviously just cause you aren't korean doesn't mean you can't be good at sc2. But there are far more skilled koreans at it than foreigners. Yet the game seems to be much bigger outside of korea. That means the koreans are making more efficient use of their time and are just generally more efficient players. Even the non-hardcore koreans on avg are way better. So practice schedule isn't all of it.
Koreans seem to have a much bigger sample size within that nurture dynamic. Plus you have a much more serious gaming population there who has played starcraft for much longer than elsewhere in the world which would raise the general standard of play. Even though there may be racial genes that favor a group or another, there's too many other variables to be accounted for to simply conclude that Koreans own those genes.
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On March 15 2011 03:53 robertdinh wrote:
Didn't idra have the same "nurture" for sc2 ever since beta, and still not get to the absolute top?
Different genetics have different pros and cons, it's "racist" to understand that apparently but the sooner people deal with that reality the better.
Just like average penis sizes, computational skills, sickle cell anemia etc.
Nothing is determined 100% by race alone though, obviously just cause you aren't korean doesn't mean you can't be good at sc2. But there are far more skilled koreans at it than foreigners. Yet the game seems to be much bigger outside of korea. That means the koreans are making more efficient use of their time and are just generally more efficient players. Even the non-hardcore koreans on avg are way better. So practice schedule isn't all of it.
It's vaguely insane to me to suggest that because Idra(a ro8 Code S participant) and Jinro(ro4 twice, once in an Open and once in Code S) are not the best players in Korea, hands-down even with Korean training, you can conclude that Koreans have gaming genes or what the fuck ever. Seriously, are you crazy?
MakaPrime was good in the beta, sucks now. Do Koreans have slumping genes? Fruit Dealer has been playing since the beta, has Korean training, and is straight up worse than Idra. Is he a fake Korean?
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On March 15 2011 04:29 Turgid wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 03:53 robertdinh wrote:
Didn't idra have the same "nurture" for sc2 ever since beta, and still not get to the absolute top?
Different genetics have different pros and cons, it's "racist" to understand that apparently but the sooner people deal with that reality the better.
Just like average penis sizes, computational skills, sickle cell anemia etc.
Nothing is determined 100% by race alone though, obviously just cause you aren't korean doesn't mean you can't be good at sc2. But there are far more skilled koreans at it than foreigners. Yet the game seems to be much bigger outside of korea. That means the koreans are making more efficient use of their time and are just generally more efficient players. Even the non-hardcore koreans on avg are way better. So practice schedule isn't all of it. It's vaguely insane to me to suggest that because Idra(a ro8 Code S participant) and Jinro(ro4 twice, once in an Open and once in Code S) are not the best players in Korea, hands-down even with Korean training, you can conclude that Koreans have gaming genes or what the fuck ever. Seriously, are you crazy? MakaPrime was good in the beta, sucks now. Do Koreans have slumping genes? Fruit Dealer has been playing since the beta, has Korean training, and is straight up worse than Idra. Is he a fake Korean?
That's ok because higher concepts often seem insane to the average people.
Idra and jinro have not claimed dominance in korea, they've generally had easier routes, they have played SOME good players but not consistently.
Easy qualifier brackets and easy ro64-ro16 brackets skews their results quite a bit.
Btw fruitdealer won the gsl where zerg was in its weakest state.
The gap in skill between players like nestea and mvp are night and day with idra and jinro, because sc2 is rock paper scissors they may be able to take games off of them here and there, but in a bo9 or something they would get murdered.
I mean you can argue about sample sizes and such but sc2 has sold more copies outside of korea than in korea, and the best non korean players still play vs koreans and generally get stomped.
them placing 1-2-3 at a top foreign tourney with some of their players that aren't even considered upper echelon says it all.
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If you're arguing about genetics, where are all of the foreigners of Korean descent on various pro-gaming teams? Why don't we see European and American teams dominated by Koreans not living in Korea if they are superior genetically?
Unless you can show that there is a positive correlation regardless of location between being Korean and being good at Starcraft 2, it is easy enough to judge that their skill is more incidental to local environmental factors. The fact that more copies of Starcraft 2 were sold outside of Korea does not account for things like having a team house in the Starcraft "Mecca" of the world.
Also, how many foreigners have we had who have trained in Korea for a considerably long time? Definitely a lot more Koreans than foreigners which makes it much more likely for the absolute best to get acclaim under what can arguably be called ideal Starcraft conditions.
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On March 15 2011 04:35 robertdinh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 04:29 Turgid wrote:On March 15 2011 03:53 robertdinh wrote:
Didn't idra have the same "nurture" for sc2 ever since beta, and still not get to the absolute top?
Different genetics have different pros and cons, it's "racist" to understand that apparently but the sooner people deal with that reality the better.
Just like average penis sizes, computational skills, sickle cell anemia etc.
Nothing is determined 100% by race alone though, obviously just cause you aren't korean doesn't mean you can't be good at sc2. But there are far more skilled koreans at it than foreigners. Yet the game seems to be much bigger outside of korea. That means the koreans are making more efficient use of their time and are just generally more efficient players. Even the non-hardcore koreans on avg are way better. So practice schedule isn't all of it. It's vaguely insane to me to suggest that because Idra(a ro8 Code S participant) and Jinro(ro4 twice, once in an Open and once in Code S) are not the best players in Korea, hands-down even with Korean training, you can conclude that Koreans have gaming genes or what the fuck ever. Seriously, are you crazy? MakaPrime was good in the beta, sucks now. Do Koreans have slumping genes? Fruit Dealer has been playing since the beta, has Korean training, and is straight up worse than Idra. Is he a fake Korean? That's ok because higher concepts often seem insane to the average people. Idra and jinro have not claimed dominance in korea, they've generally had easier routes, they have played SOME good players but not consistently. Easy qualifier brackets and easy ro64-ro16 brackets skews their results quite a bit. Btw fruitdealer won the gsl where zerg was in its weakest state. The gap in skill between players like nestea and mvp are night and day with idra and jinro, because sc2 is rock paper scissors they may be able to take games off of them here and there, but in a bo9 or something they would get murdered. I mean you can argue about sample sizes and such but sc2 has sold more copies outside of korea than in korea, and the best non korean players still play vs koreans and generally get stomped. them placing 1-2-3 at a top foreign tourney with some of their players that aren't even considered upper echelon says it all.
Why make such inflammatory arguments backed up with bad logic and bad anecdotal examples? Just enjoy the write-up and the funny title.
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On March 15 2011 04:58 CuriousMoose wrote:
If you're arguing about genetics, where are all of the foreigners of Korean descent on various pro-gaming teams? Why don't we see European and American teams dominated by Koreans not living in Korea if they are superior genetically?
Unless you can show that there is a positive correlation regardless of location between being Korean and being good at Starcraft 2, it is easy enough to judge that their skill is more incidental to local environmental factors. The fact that more copies of Starcraft 2 were sold outside of Korea does not account for things like having a team house in the Starcraft "Mecca" of the world.
Also, how many foreigners have we had who have trained in Korea for a considerably long time? Definitely a lot more Koreans than foreigners which makes it much more likely for the absolute best to get acclaim under what can arguably be called ideal Starcraft conditions.
This argument is flawed because it is a combination to maximize potential.
You still have to train to maximize your potential, and you have to train the right way.
But everyone has their limits, I can do the exact same training routine as kobe bryant, i'll never be as good as him at basketball.
If you took those koreans living elsewhere and put them in the right environment you would see dramatic improvement. Just like you've seen with the westerners that went to korea, but those westerners still haven't been able to reach the top level. In BW, or in SC2.
Some are very good, but they aren't good enough to dominate a GSL in the way that someone like nestea did.
On March 15 2011 05:14 Beef Noodles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 04:35 robertdinh wrote:On March 15 2011 04:29 Turgid wrote:On March 15 2011 03:53 robertdinh wrote:
Didn't idra have the same "nurture" for sc2 ever since beta, and still not get to the absolute top?
Different genetics have different pros and cons, it's "racist" to understand that apparently but the sooner people deal with that reality the better.
Just like average penis sizes, computational skills, sickle cell anemia etc.
Nothing is determined 100% by race alone though, obviously just cause you aren't korean doesn't mean you can't be good at sc2. But there are far more skilled koreans at it than foreigners. Yet the game seems to be much bigger outside of korea. That means the koreans are making more efficient use of their time and are just generally more efficient players. Even the non-hardcore koreans on avg are way better. So practice schedule isn't all of it. It's vaguely insane to me to suggest that because Idra(a ro8 Code S participant) and Jinro(ro4 twice, once in an Open and once in Code S) are not the best players in Korea, hands-down even with Korean training, you can conclude that Koreans have gaming genes or what the fuck ever. Seriously, are you crazy? MakaPrime was good in the beta, sucks now. Do Koreans have slumping genes? Fruit Dealer has been playing since the beta, has Korean training, and is straight up worse than Idra. Is he a fake Korean? That's ok because higher concepts often seem insane to the average people. Idra and jinro have not claimed dominance in korea, they've generally had easier routes, they have played SOME good players but not consistently. Easy qualifier brackets and easy ro64-ro16 brackets skews their results quite a bit. Btw fruitdealer won the gsl where zerg was in its weakest state. The gap in skill between players like nestea and mvp are night and day with idra and jinro, because sc2 is rock paper scissors they may be able to take games off of them here and there, but in a bo9 or something they would get murdered. I mean you can argue about sample sizes and such but sc2 has sold more copies outside of korea than in korea, and the best non korean players still play vs koreans and generally get stomped. them placing 1-2-3 at a top foreign tourney with some of their players that aren't even considered upper echelon says it all. Why make such inflammatory arguments backed up with bad logic and bad anecdotal examples? Just enjoy the write-up and the funny title.
No one here is trying to be inflammatory, but i'd just rather be realistic than concern myself with political correctness.
Different races are well different, whether it be skin tone, vulnerability to certain kinds of diseases, or various other attributes, we must acknowledge these differences do exist, and as these differences exist they give different races varying potential for good or bad things (a disease for example would be a bad thing, while better computational skills might be a good thing)
We are also looking at averages here and not stereotyping that ALL people of a certain race are better at something, we are just talking about on average.
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Ok, but "racially" Koreans are THE SAME as Chinese. They both shared a common ancestor, and they have not had enough time to generate ANY significant genetic differences. Why aren't progamers half koreans half chinese?
In fact, there are more western players at the "top" level than there are Chinese players. Please try to explain that. You can't say not enough Chinese play the game, because tons of them do.
It is clearly that Koreans take a different approach to "playing" a game. They are on teams that LIVE together, and they've been living together since the end of the beta. It has nothing to do with genetics. It's purely a cultural difference.
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On March 15 2011 05:57 Beef Noodles wrote:
Ok, but "racially" Koreans are THE SAME as Chinese. They both shared a common ancestor, and they have not had enough time to generate ANY significant genetic differences. Why aren't progamers half koreans half chinese? In fact, there are more western players at the "top" level than there are Chinese players. Please try to explain that. You can't say not enough Chinese play the game, because tons of them do. It is clearly that Koreans take a different approach to "playing" a game. They are on teams that LIVE together, and they've been living together since the end of the beta. It has nothing to do with genetics. It's purely a cultural difference.
This is simply incorrect... koreans are different than chinese people, this is why people who are accustomed to the orient can tell when someone looks korean as opposed to chinese (based on genetic features)
Hell china is such a large geographic region that even chinese are different from chinese in other parts of china.
It would be like saying japanese people are chinese, when their genetic line has been augmented drastically by lots of inbreeding for hundreds of years.
Keep in mind all males can be traced back to a common african ancestor 50k-60k years ago, yet males have varied drastically since then.
This type of naivete is dangerous because you want the world to operate on pure equality in some ways when in reality just look at where you are from. The united states does not treat all foreign people as equals.
So the sentiment that all people are equal and genetics do not factor into the potential for varying things is silly.
Genetics dictate a great deal of who we are as people. Whether it be tall, short, big boned, smart, dumb, etc.
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On March 14 2011 10:05 bokchoi wrote:
I wish they had the original video for reference, because some people may not understand the joke, haha
¨
What original video? ^^
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On March 15 2011 05:57 Beef Noodles wrote:
Ok, but "racially" Koreans are THE SAME as Chinese. They both shared a common ancestor, and they have not had enough time to generate ANY significant genetic differences. Why aren't progamers half koreans half chinese?
In fact, there are more western players at the "top" level than there are Chinese players. Please try to explain that. You can't say not enough Chinese play the game, because tons of them do.
It is clearly that Koreans take a different approach to "playing" a game. They are on teams that LIVE together, and they've been living together since the end of the beta. It has nothing to do with genetics. It's purely a cultural difference.
i loled at this. If you studied genetics at all, any human group who has been separated for more than 1000 years have huge genetic gab. The reason is simply humans adept quicker than other species because they look for companion that adept faster to a new environment, as to in case of most animals, those who cannot adept to the new environment fast enough dies fast and the adeptors reproduce. Separation time China:Korea 5000 years.
Just because there may not many different aspect in terms of looks (though arguable), does not make them not genetically different. Also considering most of China's population is 'Han' and most of korea is not, I do not see how your assumption could be even remotely close.
That being said, it is unlikely there is a genetic factor that specifically favours a Korean player over a non-korean. Although they did find the very top players' brain functions completely different from a average gamer when visualising units (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc0Pgm8lWRw at 14:30), I cannot possibily imagine only Koreans may be born with/aquire this 'ability'.
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On March 15 2011 05:59 robertdinh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 05:57 Beef Noodles wrote:
Ok, but "racially" Koreans are THE SAME as Chinese. They both shared a common ancestor, and they have not had enough time to generate ANY significant genetic differences. Why aren't progamers half koreans half chinese? In fact, there are more western players at the "top" level than there are Chinese players. Please try to explain that. You can't say not enough Chinese play the game, because tons of them do. It is clearly that Koreans take a different approach to "playing" a game. They are on teams that LIVE together, and they've been living together since the end of the beta. It has nothing to do with genetics. It's purely a cultural difference. This is simply incorrect... koreans are different than chinese people, this is why people who are accustomed to the orient can tell when someone looks korean as opposed to chinese (based on genetic features) It would be like saying japanese people are chinese, when their genetic line has been augmented drastically by lots of inbreeding for hundreds of years. Keep in mind all males can be traced back to a common african ancestor 50k-60k years ago, yet males have varied drastically since then. This type of naivete is dangerous because you want the world to operate on pure equality in some ways when in reality just look at where you are from. The united states does not treat all foreign people as equals. So the sentiment that all people are equal and genetics do not factor into the potential for varying things is silly. Genetics dictate a great deal of who we are as people. Whether it be tall, short, big boned, smart, dumb, etc.
Ok, so I agree that my post is incomplete, but I do not want to write an essay while I am studying for finals.
I have found NO evidence of a genetic dissimilarity between Chinese and Koreans (who DO share a common ancestor) that could POSSIBLY account for Koreans somehow "dominating" 2 specific video games. Even if you can prove significant genetic differences, you CANNOT find a link between those genes and Starcraft.
So we come to your issue:
1) you are speculating on 2 HUGE levels.
2) When no one has proven what you are saying, and what you are saying is highly skeptical (I admit this is begging the question), you can't just say "Oh I'm right. Prove me wrong. Foreigners are inferior (we have examples to the contrary)." Science doesn't work like that.
3) Why with no evidence would you choose stand on the side of racism?
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On March 15 2011 06:16 ooni wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 05:57 Beef Noodles wrote:
Ok, but "racially" Koreans are THE SAME as Chinese. They both shared a common ancestor, and they have not had enough time to generate ANY significant genetic differences. Why aren't progamers half koreans half chinese?
In fact, there are more western players at the "top" level than there are Chinese players. Please try to explain that. You can't say not enough Chinese play the game, because tons of them do.
It is clearly that Koreans take a different approach to "playing" a game. They are on teams that LIVE together, and they've been living together since the end of the beta. It has nothing to do with genetics. It's purely a cultural difference. i loled at this. If you studied genetics at all, any human group who has been separated for more than 1000 years have huge genetic gab. The reason is simply humans adept quicker than other species because they look for companion that adept faster to a new environment, as to in case of most animals, those who cannot adept to the new environment fast enough dies fast and the adeptors reproduce. Separation time China:Korea 5000 years. Just because there may not many different aspect in terms of looks (though arguable), does not make them not genetically different. Also considering most of China's population is 'Han' and most of korea is not, I do not see how your assumption could be even remotely close. That being said, it is unlikely there is a genetic factor that specifically favours a Korean player over a non-korean. Although they did find the very top players' brain functions completely different from a average gamer when visualising units (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc0Pgm8lWRw at 14:30), I cannot possibily imagine only Koreans may be born with/aquire this 'ability'.
How can you possibly claim that China and Korea have been seperated for 5000 years? Genetics do not operate on political borders. You are right, I am not a genetics major. I am a Chinese history major. Northern Chinese, Manchurians, and Koreans have been constantly intermingling in a significant way until the end of the Qing Dynasty (1900).
Obviously, Chinese is a misleading term. Historically China is one of the most ethnically diverse countries in the world.
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Honestly guys, genes really don't have much to do with this.
I honestly think that it's more culture than genetics and here's why:
Korean training ethics are insane. They are also like that with other aspects of study too. When I lived in Korea, EVERY kid went to school from 8am to 3-4pm then to afterschool (a kind of mass tutoring) until 12-4 am. That's just with school work, and mind you this kind of thing starts in elementary. In america, it's mostly happy fun time until maybe junior year in highschool when parents freak out about college apps. Now think about this ethic transfered over to SC. That's all it really is. I'm sure if you brought in a bunch of kids in America, trained them with that kind of ethic, then they'll SOME of them will end up as amazing pro gamers.
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On March 15 2011 03:53 robertdinh wrote:
Didn't idra have the same "nurture" for sc2 ever since beta, and still not get to the absolute top?
Different genetics have different pros and cons, it's "racist" to understand that apparently but the sooner people deal with that reality the better.
Just like average penis sizes, computational skills, sickle cell anemia etc.
Nothing is determined 100% by race alone though, obviously just cause you aren't korean doesn't mean you can't be good at sc2. But there are far more skilled koreans at it than foreigners. Yet the game seems to be much bigger outside of korea. That means the koreans are making more efficient use of their time and are just generally more efficient players. Even the non-hardcore koreans on avg are way better. So practice schedule isn't all of it.
Didn't the majority of Korean pros have the same "nurture" for SC2 and not get to the absolute top either?
What you're saying is "So, there have been like 5 non-Koreans training in optimal conditions and a handful of the hundreds of Koreans in that environment are still better than them, obviously Koreans must be genetically designed to play Starcraft!"
How do you even type that shit without your brain saying "Hey Robert, you're going to look like an idiot if you press the "post" button, quick, close the browser!"?
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On March 15 2011 06:22 Beef Noodles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 06:16 ooni wrote:On March 15 2011 05:57 Beef Noodles wrote:
Ok, but "racially" Koreans are THE SAME as Chinese. They both shared a common ancestor, and they have not had enough time to generate ANY significant genetic differences. Why aren't progamers half koreans half chinese?
In fact, there are more western players at the "top" level than there are Chinese players. Please try to explain that. You can't say not enough Chinese play the game, because tons of them do.
It is clearly that Koreans take a different approach to "playing" a game. They are on teams that LIVE together, and they've been living together since the end of the beta. It has nothing to do with genetics. It's purely a cultural difference. i loled at this. If you studied genetics at all, any human group who has been separated for more than 1000 years have huge genetic gab. The reason is simply humans adept quicker than other species because they look for companion that adept faster to a new environment, as to in case of most animals, those who cannot adept to the new environment fast enough dies fast and the adeptors reproduce. Separation time China:Korea 5000 years. Just because there may not many different aspect in terms of looks (though arguable), does not make them not genetically different. Also considering most of China's population is 'Han' and most of korea is not, I do not see how your assumption could be even remotely close. That being said, it is unlikely there is a genetic factor that specifically favours a Korean player over a non-korean. Although they did find the very top players' brain functions completely different from a average gamer when visualising units (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc0Pgm8lWRw at 14:30), I cannot possibily imagine only Koreans may be born with/aquire this 'ability'. How can you possibly claim that China and Korea have been seperated for 5000 years? Genetics do not operate on political borders. You are right, I am not a genetics major. I am a Chinese history major. Northern Chinese, Manchurians, and Koreans have been constantly intermingling in a significant way until the end of the Qing Dynasty (1900). Obviously, Chinese is a misleading term. Historically China is one of the most ethnically diverse countries in the world.
China is most definitely an RTS superpower, dominating Warcraft 3 and hovering between Korea and foreigners in Brood War. China has also recently dominated DotA tournaments.
Once Starcraft 2 is officially released there, expect to see lots of up and coming Chinese players.
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On March 15 2011 06:22 Beef Noodles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 06:16 ooni wrote:On March 15 2011 05:57 Beef Noodles wrote:
Ok, but "racially" Koreans are THE SAME as Chinese. They both shared a common ancestor, and they have not had enough time to generate ANY significant genetic differences. Why aren't progamers half koreans half chinese?
In fact, there are more western players at the "top" level than there are Chinese players. Please try to explain that. You can't say not enough Chinese play the game, because tons of them do.
It is clearly that Koreans take a different approach to "playing" a game. They are on teams that LIVE together, and they've been living together since the end of the beta. It has nothing to do with genetics. It's purely a cultural difference. i loled at this. If you studied genetics at all, any human group who has been separated for more than 1000 years have huge genetic gab. The reason is simply humans adept quicker than other species because they look for companion that adept faster to a new environment, as to in case of most animals, those who cannot adept to the new environment fast enough dies fast and the adeptors reproduce. Separation time China:Korea 5000 years. Just because there may not many different aspect in terms of looks (though arguable), does not make them not genetically different. Also considering most of China's population is 'Han' and most of korea is not, I do not see how your assumption could be even remotely close. That being said, it is unlikely there is a genetic factor that specifically favours a Korean player over a non-korean. Although they did find the very top players' brain functions completely different from a average gamer when visualising units (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc0Pgm8lWRw at 14:30), I cannot possibily imagine only Koreans may be born with/aquire this 'ability'. How can you possibly claim that China and Korea have been seperated for 5000 years? Genetics do not operate on political borders. You are right, I am not a genetics major. I am a Chinese history major. Northern Chinese, Manchurians, and Koreans have been constantly intermingling in a significant way until the end of the Qing Dynasty (1900). Obviously, Chinese is a misleading term. Historically China is one of the most ethnically diverse countries in the world.
but did you read?
Han != Koreans, Japanese or other Asians
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koreans#Genetic_studies
Koreans are even closer to Japanese people than Han, and Japanese ppl have been seperated on an island for a long time.
"the Koreans had the lowest percentage of Austronesian DNA among the East Asians, while the Han Chinese had the most. The Japanese were found to have slightly more Austronesian DNA than the Koreans."
ofc the genetics are different, it doesn't matter if two countries have some access, they separate later and that mix is reduce or faded out eventually. =_=
Still stands, there is no genetic factor that favours 'koreans'.
Although looking back at the video, it makes ppl feel hopeless that some ppl are better at SC or gaming than others and there is not much a person can do about it. Very sad indeed.
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On March 15 2011 04:35 robertdinh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 04:29 Turgid wrote:On March 15 2011 03:53 robertdinh wrote:
Didn't idra have the same "nurture" for sc2 ever since beta, and still not get to the absolute top?
Different genetics have different pros and cons, it's "racist" to understand that apparently but the sooner people deal with that reality the better.
Just like average penis sizes, computational skills, sickle cell anemia etc.
Nothing is determined 100% by race alone though, obviously just cause you aren't korean doesn't mean you can't be good at sc2. But there are far more skilled koreans at it than foreigners. Yet the game seems to be much bigger outside of korea. That means the koreans are making more efficient use of their time and are just generally more efficient players. Even the non-hardcore koreans on avg are way better. So practice schedule isn't all of it. It's vaguely insane to me to suggest that because Idra(a ro8 Code S participant) and Jinro(ro4 twice, once in an Open and once in Code S) are not the best players in Korea, hands-down even with Korean training, you can conclude that Koreans have gaming genes or what the fuck ever. Seriously, are you crazy? MakaPrime was good in the beta, sucks now. Do Koreans have slumping genes? Fruit Dealer has been playing since the beta, has Korean training, and is straight up worse than Idra. Is he a fake Korean? That's ok because higher concepts often seem insane to the average people. Idra and jinro have not claimed dominance in korea, they've generally had easier routes, they have played SOME good players but not consistently. Easy qualifier brackets and easy ro64-ro16 brackets skews their results quite a bit. Btw fruitdealer won the gsl where zerg was in its weakest state. The gap in skill between players like nestea and mvp are night and day with idra and jinro, because sc2 is rock paper scissors they may be able to take games off of them here and there, but in a bo9 or something they would get murdered. I mean you can argue about sample sizes and such but sc2 has sold more copies outside of korea than in korea, and the best non korean players still play vs koreans and generally get stomped. them placing 1-2-3 at a top foreign tourney with some of their players that aren't even considered upper echelon says it all.
You're an idiot, plain and simple. And talk about burying the lead, yeah, there's a problem with sample sizes.
Not to mention entirely ignoring the point that skills from other games carry over. Yes some Korean pros are new gamers to SC2, but not nearly all of them.
The idea that Koreans are just racially better at games is laughable when you note that their dominance is exclusive to games they practice. If it was racial they could pick up Halo Reach and start winning titles in that if they felt like it.
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oh my, why do you bother arguing with people over the internet if genes of all things has something to do with games? It's hard goddamn practice, Flash himself said he doesn't believe in a thing called "prodigy"
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some people here are getting too technical for their own good. there's no way of proving that korean genes make you better at video games, since theres always external factors involved. Of course you can clone some starcraft-playing mice and test each gene that way....
I'm sure you're thinking "But but but..." Just stop.. anything is speculation/hypothetical.
From my experience, asians are in general better at video games, but that's where we should stop. If you are going to argue further and bring in science and genetics etc, you are just going to lose the debate like robertdinh did, because there's just no way to prove it.
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My prediction for this thread is that someone will bring up eugenics, and it will be closed.
Though I suppose the argument was always going to go in this direction with the thread name and focus on the Korean > Foreigner aspect of it all.
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EPT
