[IEM] "Koreans own white dudes." - Page 10

HorstSchlemmer

Germany114 Posts

March 14 2011 22:20 GMT

#181

I don't think this has to do anything with genes.

Let's see who is considered "good" right now amongst foreigners. Most of them or even all have a broodwar or WC3 background. So, what did they do in the past 10 years?
They played at home, maybe 4-8 hours avg each day and their skill transfered to sc2.

Now you have the koreans playing 14h a day in a teamhouse for years and their skill transfered to sc2 as well.
I think it might come down to the superior mechanics, micro, reaction time etc. that transfers from one game to another.

xsevR

United States324 Posts

March 14 2011 22:41 GMT

#182

Wish I didn't skip to the end of this thread... seriously? No one actually thinks Koreans are better at Blizzard games because of biological differences inherent to their race, right? Kinda Hitlerish...

timtwins

United States49 Posts

March 14 2011 23:26 GMT

#183

wow, that's hilarious

SwEEt[TearS]

Canada1575 Posts

March 14 2011 23:27 GMT

#184

title reminded me of this

1:18
"the asians kick the crap out of everybody at this."

Aquafresh

United States824 Posts

March 14 2011 23:43 GMT

#185

On March 15 2011 07:20 HorstSchlemmer wrote:
I think it might come down to the superior mechanics, micro, reaction time etc. that transfers from one game to another.

Add general RTS knowledge to this and I think it's 100% correct. These guys have simply spent more time exploring the depths of this type of RTS than anyone else. It is to be expected that their approach to a similar game will be superior.

The gaming world has never seen the infrastructure that BW had. Teams with dedicated talent acquisition and development strategies focusing solely on beating out the other 9 (used to be 11) teams will take a game to a whole new level.

robertdinh

803 Posts

March 14 2011 23:43 GMT

#186

On March 15 2011 06:59 staxringold wrote:

Show nested quote +

On March 15 2011 04:35 robertdinh wrote:

On March 15 2011 04:29 Turgid wrote:

On March 15 2011 03:53 robertdinh wrote:
Didn't idra have the same "nurture" for sc2 ever since beta, and still not get to the absolute top?

Different genetics have different pros and cons, it's "racist" to understand that apparently but the sooner people deal with that reality the better.

Just like average penis sizes, computational skills, sickle cell anemia etc.

Nothing is determined 100% by race alone though, obviously just cause you aren't korean doesn't mean you can't be good at sc2. But there are far more skilled koreans at it than foreigners. Yet the game seems to be much bigger outside of korea. That means the koreans are making more efficient use of their time and are just generally more efficient players. Even the non-hardcore koreans on avg are way better. So practice schedule isn't all of it.

It's vaguely insane to me to suggest that because Idra(a ro8 Code S participant) and Jinro(ro4 twice, once in an Open and once in Code S) are not the best players in Korea, hands-down even with Korean training, you can conclude that Koreans have gaming genes or what the fuck ever. Seriously, are you crazy?

MakaPrime was good in the beta, sucks now. Do Koreans have slumping genes? Fruit Dealer has been playing since the beta, has Korean training, and is straight up worse than Idra. Is he a fake Korean?

That's ok because higher concepts often seem insane to the average people.

Idra and jinro have not claimed dominance in korea, they've generally had easier routes, they have played SOME good players but not consistently.

Easy qualifier brackets and easy ro64-ro16 brackets skews their results quite a bit.

Btw fruitdealer won the gsl where zerg was in its weakest state.

The gap in skill between players like nestea and mvp are night and day with idra and jinro, because sc2 is rock paper scissors they may be able to take games off of them here and there, but in a bo9 or something they would get murdered.

I mean you can argue about sample sizes and such but sc2 has sold more copies outside of korea than in korea, and the best non korean players still play vs koreans and generally get stomped.

them placing 1-2-3 at a top foreign tourney with some of their players that aren't even considered upper echelon says it all.

You're an idiot, plain and simple. And talk about burying the lead, yeah, there's a problem with sample sizes.

Not to mention entirely ignoring the point that skills from other games carry over. Yes some Korean pros are new gamers to SC2, but not nearly all of them.

The idea that Koreans are just racially better at games is laughable when you note that their dominance is exclusive to games they practice. If it was racial they could pick up Halo Reach and start winning titles in that if they felt like it.

You can't just pick up something and be godly at it, that would be like saying all koreans are gaming savants, no, just on average they are better at rts games. Specifically ones that require macro and micro and repetition.

I am sorry this doesn't fit into your IU - marshmallow world, but genetics are not politically correct, they are nature at play, and nature doesn't care about you or how you feel.

jinorazi

Korea (South)4948 Posts

March 14 2011 23:57 GMT

#187

On March 15 2011 06:30 MusiK wrote:
Honestly guys, genes really don't have much to do with this.

I honestly think that it's more culture than genetics and here's why:
Korean training ethics are insane. They are also like that with other aspects of study too. When I lived in Korea, EVERY kid went to school from 8am to 3-4pm then to afterschool (a kind of mass tutoring) until 12-4 am. That's just with school work, and mind you this kind of thing starts in elementary. In america, it's mostly happy fun time until maybe junior year in highschool when parents freak out about college apps. Now think about this ethic transfered over to SC. That's all it really is. I'm sure if you brought in a bunch of kids in America, trained them with that kind of ethic, then they'll SOME of them will end up as amazing pro gamers.

this is true. when i was 9 years old in korea, i to school 8am to 2pm, then i had 3pm to 6pm for hakwon (tutoring).

my sister(+6yrs) and brother(+9yrs) had same but their hakwon ended at 9pm.

so our time studying from elementary is about 10 to 12 hours a day, increasing with grade.
and it was 6 days a week.

when i came to the states...it sure was a new experience.

Waxangel

United States33502 Posts

March 15 2011 00:19 GMT

#188

hey guys, this title was hard fought for, don't make someone change it again

shire

United States405 Posts

March 15 2011 00:37 GMT

#189

i wonder how much viewing NASL will get. i think NASL viewer number will depend on how well non-Koreans do in TSL and Gom's world championship in seoul. i honestly can say if non-Koreans get totally pwn'd to the point of getting demolish'd, i doubt i will watch NASL too often.

tensionz

United States130 Posts

March 15 2011 01:04 GMT

#190

Haha it's true though when it comes to SC. :D

jyLee

United States350 Posts

March 15 2011 02:18 GMT

#191

On March 15 2011 06:22 Beef Noodles wrote:

Show nested quote +

How can you possibly claim that China and Korea have been seperated for 5000 years? Genetics do not operate on political borders. You are right, I am not a genetics major. I am a Chinese history major. Northern Chinese, Manchurians, and Koreans have been constantly intermingling in a significant way until the end of the Qing Dynasty (1900).

Obviously, Chinese is a misleading term. Historically China is one of the most ethnically diverse countries in the world.

Stop talking about genetics bro. Its obvious you're ignorant and it just looks bad. Genetically speaking Koreans are closer to Mongols and Japanese people than Chinese and this is proven by looking at DNA, not maps or time lines....

Genetics have nothing to do with gaming superiority unless someone proves Koreans have superior mental processing or hand/eye coordination. Training has something to do with it but I also feel like the Korean gaming culture is more condusive to producing pro gamers. There are pc cafes on every corner with blazing (and i mean blazing) high speed internet access and fast computers at dirt cheap prices. It costs like $5 to spend the entire day playing in a cafe and you can have food ordered right to your computer so you dont even have to move. Not to mention you have easy access to pro teams if you are good enough. Lets not forget you have to be good enough to even make it onto a team dorm for practicing to begin with so you have get real good on your own.

Terranosaurus Rex

United States1 Post

March 15 2011 02:29 GMT

#192

FRACK MY RAGE CANNOT BE CONTAINED ANY LONGER!!!! I am so sick of this. I give props to Jinro for making headway into the GSL, but enough is enough. When are Team Liquid, Idra, White-Ra, Sjow, Moonglade, and Morrow and everybody else gonna finally beast all over these slack jawed faggots! BW/SC2 are white mens games developed by the most uber of uber Californian programmers!!! Koreans couldn't make a good game even if it was called "KimchiCraft". So why should the be the best at playing it? FROM HERE ON OUT NOT ONE STEP BACKWARD UNTIL THE WAR IS WON MEN!!!!! ONWARDS AND UPWARDS UNTIL YOU ARE DEAD OR THE JOB IS DONE!!!!!

Instead of this

we need THIS

User was banned for this post.

deerpark87

760 Posts

March 15 2011 02:48 GMT

#193

On March 15 2011 11:29 Terranosaurus Rex wrote:
FRACK MY RAGE CANNOT BE CONTAINED ANY LONGER!!!! I am so sick of this. I give props to Jinro for making headway into the GSL, but enough is enough. When are Team Liquid, Idra, White-Ra, Sjow, Moonglade, and Morrow and everybody else gonna finally beast all over these slack jawed faggots! BW/SC2 are white mens games developed by the most uber of uber Californian programmers!!! Koreans couldn't make a good game even if it was called "KimchiCraft". So why should the be the best at playing it? FROM HERE ON OUT NOT ONE STEP BACKWARD UNTIL THE WAR IS WON MEN!!!!! ONWARDS AND UPWARDS UNTIL YOU ARE DEAD OR THE JOB IS DONE!!!!!

Instead of this

we need THIS

User was banned for this post.

First of all, happy birthday. Are you sure you are old enough to be going on the interweb?

sPaM916

United States71 Posts

March 15 2011 03:11 GMT

#194

we need THIS

User was banned for this post.

lolzzzz i hope you were joking

shire

United States405 Posts

March 15 2011 03:17 GMT

#195

On March 15 2011 11:18 jyLee wrote:

Show nested quote +

On March 15 2011 06:22 Beef Noodles wrote:

On March 15 2011 06:16 ooni wrote:

On March 15 2011 05:57 Beef Noodles wrote:
Ok, but "racially" Koreans are THE SAME as Chinese. They both shared a common ancestor, and they have not had enough time to generate ANY significant genetic differences. Why aren't progamers half koreans half chinese?

In fact, there are more western players at the "top" level than there are Chinese players. Please try to explain that. You can't say not enough Chinese play the game, because tons of them do.

It is clearly that Koreans take a different approach to "playing" a game. They are on teams that LIVE together, and they've been living together since the end of the beta. It has nothing to do with genetics. It's purely a cultural difference.

i loled at this. If you studied genetics at all, any human group who has been separated for more than 1000 years have huge genetic gab. The reason is simply humans adept quicker than other species because they look for companion that adept faster to a new environment, as to in case of most animals, those who cannot adept to the new environment fast enough dies fast and the adeptors reproduce. Separation time China:Korea 5000 years.

Just because there may not many different aspect in terms of looks (though arguable), does not make them not genetically different. Also considering most of China's population is 'Han' and most of korea is not, I do not see how your assumption could be even remotely close.

That being said, it is unlikely there is a genetic factor that specifically favours a Korean player over a non-korean. Although they did find the very top players' brain functions completely different from a average gamer when visualising units (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc0Pgm8lWRw at 14:30), I cannot possibily imagine only Koreans may be born with/aquire this 'ability'.

this is true. if you take a look at actual asian history, and not just chinese history, Koreans are more closely related to Mongolians than Chinese. China wasn't always this big. Korea used to be bigger than North and South Korea put in together. Korean borders were stretched out to northern side from North Korea, which are now part of China. You cannot say, because part of past Korean lands are now part of China, that Chinese and Koreans are closely related either.

mvpAKAenvyME

Canada179 Posts

March 15 2011 03:21 GMT

#196

On March 14 2011 18:35 Silentness wrote:

Show nested quote +

I'm not white either, but I got to agree that Korea is dominating in SC2 and BW at the moment still.

Who's going to stop them? BLACK? WHITE? YELLOW?

i made this post better.

T-Rex Returns!!!

United States2 Posts

March 15 2011 03:24 GMT

#197

--- Nuked ---

l10f

United States3241 Posts

March 15 2011 03:26 GMT

#198

T-Rex Returns!!!

United States2 Posts

March 15 2011 03:27 GMT

#199

--- Nuked ---

Qaatar

1409 Posts

March 15 2011 05:34 GMT

#200

On March 14 2011 10:10 GoNZooo wrote:
The title/quote is a throwback to an article Carmac wrote a few years ago: http://www.sk-gaming.com/content/17621-Koreans_own_White_Dudes

For the few who might be confused; Carmac is the dude holding the mic.

Why isn't this article by Carmac linked in the original post of this thread? Seems like most people are raging and discussing xenophobic crap over nothing, as in reality, it was just an inside joke between Moon and Carmac. Seriously....wow.

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