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[SC2B] Power Overwhelming - Page 2

Forum Index > News
275 CommentsPost a Reply
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Lighioana
Profile Joined March 2010
Norway466 Posts
April 20 2010 14:48 GMT
#21
I have the felling Blizzard is too afraid and tries to play it too safe which can potentialy make SC2 fail.
And forgive me nothing for I truly meant it all
Senx
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Sweden5901 Posts
April 20 2010 14:48 GMT
#22
The exact reason why we'll never see units like Lurkers and Defilers in SC2 - It requires way too much skill to counter/deal with it and it would scare away a big part of the casual players.

Issue with that is that we'll never see moments like "wow look at that amazing reaver micro" or "wow look at how well he dealt with that reaver harass" or "wow a perfect split with those m&m against those lurkers, that is soo hard to do" in SC2.

Which makes me a little bit sad
"trash micro but win - its marine" MC commentary during HSC 4
eLZyBee
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United Kingdom34 Posts
April 20 2010 14:49 GMT
#23
Great article, essentially we need lurkers and dark swarm to make a triumphant return!
gg
3nickma
Profile Joined November 2007
Denmark1510 Posts
April 20 2010 14:50 GMT
#24
This article is OP
L E E J A E D O N G ! <3
CCGaunt
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States417 Posts
April 20 2010 14:50 GMT
#25
It does make a lot of sense. While nerf's may be herald as good, they might just make the game boring.
Take me to Korea
Prise
Profile Joined April 2010
Denmark23 Posts
April 20 2010 14:51 GMT
#26
Very nice read. It's a difficult line to draw though - when does something need nerfing (1.02 reaver), and when will players adapting balance it out by itself?
wtf
michiko
Profile Joined April 2010
United States75 Posts
April 20 2010 14:51 GMT
#27
Good article. I would focus more on making points and less on; "See! I made a call that Blizzard made! Me so smart!"

4/5
Vhex
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada14 Posts
April 20 2010 14:52 GMT
#28
Great Article, well put.
Don't cross the STREAMS!!!
ScytheMan01
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States114 Posts
April 20 2010 14:52 GMT
#29
great stuff, love the force field idea
Arragoth
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada9 Posts
April 20 2010 14:52 GMT
#30
Great article. I couldn't agree more, all this nerfing only hurts the game.

I simply cannot beat a good Protoss player right now as Zerg but I haven't called out for a single nerf. I want to figure it out cause I know there has to be a way.
iounas
Profile Joined July 2008
409 Posts
April 20 2010 14:55 GMT
#31
Reminds me of mothership overnerfing.
IdrA: stalkers actually do negative damage. when you shoot a marine with a stalker it gains health.
LaughingTulkas
Profile Joined March 2008
United States1107 Posts
April 20 2010 14:56 GMT
#32
I do agree that these things hurt the game at the highest level, but I think this is actually intentionally part of blizzards plan because it makes the game more noob-friendly. The creative counters are sometimes pretty hard to pull off for beginning users, and blizz is aiming for a wider net in this game.

(interestingly, I disagree about the FF, I just think you shouldn't be able to move units as much with them, but have to cast in mostly open spaces instead)
"I love noobies, they're so happy." -Chill
Alegzandur
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Philippines52 Posts
April 20 2010 14:56 GMT
#33
They are actually aware of this aren't they? Dustin Browder said that the most important thing he learned from the previous developer is to not be too quick on nerfing things but I guess they just felt that stuff like the roach movement while burrowed wasn't the direction they wanted (though i do agree it should be changed back to the faster speed)
Soet
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden66 Posts
April 20 2010 14:58 GMT
#34
Good article
Not Good Just Better Than You
FarbrorAbavna
Profile Joined July 2009
Sweden4856 Posts
April 20 2010 14:58 GMT
#35
Very interesting article and a new prespective(well to most people anyways) on the whole balance issue. Agree on your thoughts as a whole but the article ends in a pretty funny note, like other have pointed out, that you first say how ff is imba and then talk about how things need to be imba and then how blizz should nerf ff
Do you really want chat rooms?
Sadistx
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
April 20 2010 14:58 GMT
#36
Meh, everything written in this article has already been said or proposed multiple times. A lot of new posters actually have great ideas, some of which were exactly for the nerfs that already made it into current patches.

Making everything a little "too good" is Sirlin's method of approaching balance and also the right one.

The meta game currently suffers, because the way to scout opponent tech are expensive (sacrificing a mule for terran and getting expensive obs as P or suiciding multiple overlords). Scouting should be cheaper to allow people to switch up faster instead of massing up blinding, then losing one big fight and gg-ing.
Faster, dynamic switches to counter would benefit the current beta greatly imo.
Snowfield
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
1289 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-20 15:02:28
April 20 2010 14:59 GMT
#37
Would giving forcefields health be a good idea? essentially a field tank to soak up damage? it would have to be put on the lowest priority of possible targets atleast.

i think a better nerf would be that forcefields cannot be put ontop of eachother so making a wall midfight would be alot harder. it would be like a building, not blocked by units, but by other fore fields, so you couldnt do they instant wall that most players do now where they just drag the mouse and spam click.

on scouting: we wouldnt want scouting to be too easy either: (read: cnc)

so instead of making claims that it is too hard, maybe post some ideas you think would work well?
BadWithNames
Profile Joined April 2010
United States441 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-20 15:03:55
April 20 2010 14:59 GMT
#38
Nice article. Made me think that's for sure. I wonder if people spend more time talking about "how" certain things should be balanced than "why" certain things should be balanced.
One year in Seoul...yesh please
Rabiator
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany3948 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-20 15:12:08
April 20 2010 14:59 GMT
#39
Great writeup, but I think you forgot two things: Map size and "damage density".

Many of the current (or even pre-patch-X) problems with certain units are a direct consequence of the size of the maps. Marauder rushes pre Patch 8 would probably not have such huge success on a larger map, because the defender has more time to prepare and consequently more troops. The same might be true for Immortals if you walk them over to the opponents base.

Some mechanics will affect the gameplay severely on a larger map and the biggest "offender" here is probably Warp Gate. In itself it might not be such a problem, but because the cooldown can be Chrono boosted it seems "too flexible". Another thing is the Nydus network, which only needs sight to connect to its target location. You will not be able to cover all your base in the few seconds it needs to spawn and move troops over there to kill it. These two "distance does not matter for deployment" mechanics are extremely flexible and might make the whole game unstable on larger maps. We will have to wait and see what happens after the content patch this month though.

One comparison between SC2 and BW is obvious: Unit movement allows for "tight ball formations" and I dont think that is a good thing, because it means you cant defend a large open spaces. Psi Storm and EMP already had their radius reduced and this favors the tight ball even more; that was a mistake IMO. Due to this "high damage density" defensive structures and any building usually fall in a matter of seconds and hardly seem worth the effort. This is another big concern I have atm, which does not have anything to do with the actual units themselves.

On April 20 2010 23:30 mcneebs wrote:
I still don't know why so many new players feel that they know how to balance a game better than those who have been designing them for the past 15 years.

Sometimes "you've got to be one to know one" is true and sometimes the opposite works better. With constant immersion in the game designing the Blizzard employees arent really objective enough to judge things in a good light. They have already acknowledged that players came up with a lot more creative strategies than they themselves thought possible. So "trusting your government to do it right" is bad in this case and the people need to have a voice in the decision making.
If you cant say what you're meaning, you can never mean what you're saying.
colapro
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden12 Posts
April 20 2010 15:01 GMT
#40
Great article!
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