• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 04:15
CET 09:15
KST 17:15
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
2026 KongFu Cup Announcement4BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled12Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains15Weekly Cups (March 2-8): ByuN overcomes PvT block4GSL CK - New online series20
StarCraft 2
General
GSL CK - New online series https://www.facebook.com/Fatal.Blackout.Sale/ BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced
Tourneys
2026 KongFu Cup Announcement RSL Season 4 announced for March-April PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament [GSL CK] Team Maru vs. Team herO
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 517 Distant Threat The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 516 Specter of Death Mutation # 515 Together Forever
Brood War
General
ASL21 General Discussion BSL 22 Map Contest — Submissions OPEN to March 10 BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Are you ready for ASL 21? Hype VIDEO Gypsy to Korea
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL22] Open Qualifiers & Ladder Tours IPSL Spring 2026 is here! ASL Season 21 Qualifiers March 7-8
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Fighting Spirit mining rates Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
Dawn of War IV Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread U4GM Tips MLB The Show 26 RTTS High School First H Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Mexico's Drug War Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread General nutrition recommendations Cricket [SPORT] TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2202 users

[SC2B] Power Overwhelming - Page 2

Forum Index > News
275 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 12 13 14 Next All
Lighioana
Profile Joined March 2010
Norway466 Posts
April 20 2010 14:48 GMT
#21
I have the felling Blizzard is too afraid and tries to play it too safe which can potentialy make SC2 fail.
And forgive me nothing for I truly meant it all
Senx
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Sweden5901 Posts
April 20 2010 14:48 GMT
#22
The exact reason why we'll never see units like Lurkers and Defilers in SC2 - It requires way too much skill to counter/deal with it and it would scare away a big part of the casual players.

Issue with that is that we'll never see moments like "wow look at that amazing reaver micro" or "wow look at how well he dealt with that reaver harass" or "wow a perfect split with those m&m against those lurkers, that is soo hard to do" in SC2.

Which makes me a little bit sad
"trash micro but win - its marine" MC commentary during HSC 4
eLZyBee
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United Kingdom34 Posts
April 20 2010 14:49 GMT
#23
Great article, essentially we need lurkers and dark swarm to make a triumphant return!
gg
3nickma
Profile Joined November 2007
Denmark1510 Posts
April 20 2010 14:50 GMT
#24
This article is OP
L E E J A E D O N G ! <3
CCGaunt
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States417 Posts
April 20 2010 14:50 GMT
#25
It does make a lot of sense. While nerf's may be herald as good, they might just make the game boring.
Take me to Korea
Prise
Profile Joined April 2010
Denmark23 Posts
April 20 2010 14:51 GMT
#26
Very nice read. It's a difficult line to draw though - when does something need nerfing (1.02 reaver), and when will players adapting balance it out by itself?
wtf
michiko
Profile Joined April 2010
United States75 Posts
April 20 2010 14:51 GMT
#27
Good article. I would focus more on making points and less on; "See! I made a call that Blizzard made! Me so smart!"

4/5
Vhex
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada14 Posts
April 20 2010 14:52 GMT
#28
Great Article, well put.
Don't cross the STREAMS!!!
ScytheMan01
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States114 Posts
April 20 2010 14:52 GMT
#29
great stuff, love the force field idea
Arragoth
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada9 Posts
April 20 2010 14:52 GMT
#30
Great article. I couldn't agree more, all this nerfing only hurts the game.

I simply cannot beat a good Protoss player right now as Zerg but I haven't called out for a single nerf. I want to figure it out cause I know there has to be a way.
iounas
Profile Joined July 2008
409 Posts
April 20 2010 14:55 GMT
#31
Reminds me of mothership overnerfing.
IdrA: stalkers actually do negative damage. when you shoot a marine with a stalker it gains health.
LaughingTulkas
Profile Joined March 2008
United States1107 Posts
April 20 2010 14:56 GMT
#32
I do agree that these things hurt the game at the highest level, but I think this is actually intentionally part of blizzards plan because it makes the game more noob-friendly. The creative counters are sometimes pretty hard to pull off for beginning users, and blizz is aiming for a wider net in this game.

(interestingly, I disagree about the FF, I just think you shouldn't be able to move units as much with them, but have to cast in mostly open spaces instead)
"I love noobies, they're so happy." -Chill
Alegzandur
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Philippines52 Posts
April 20 2010 14:56 GMT
#33
They are actually aware of this aren't they? Dustin Browder said that the most important thing he learned from the previous developer is to not be too quick on nerfing things but I guess they just felt that stuff like the roach movement while burrowed wasn't the direction they wanted (though i do agree it should be changed back to the faster speed)
Soet
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden66 Posts
April 20 2010 14:58 GMT
#34
Good article
Not Good Just Better Than You
FarbrorAbavna
Profile Joined July 2009
Sweden4856 Posts
April 20 2010 14:58 GMT
#35
Very interesting article and a new prespective(well to most people anyways) on the whole balance issue. Agree on your thoughts as a whole but the article ends in a pretty funny note, like other have pointed out, that you first say how ff is imba and then talk about how things need to be imba and then how blizz should nerf ff
Do you really want chat rooms?
Sadistx
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
April 20 2010 14:58 GMT
#36
Meh, everything written in this article has already been said or proposed multiple times. A lot of new posters actually have great ideas, some of which were exactly for the nerfs that already made it into current patches.

Making everything a little "too good" is Sirlin's method of approaching balance and also the right one.

The meta game currently suffers, because the way to scout opponent tech are expensive (sacrificing a mule for terran and getting expensive obs as P or suiciding multiple overlords). Scouting should be cheaper to allow people to switch up faster instead of massing up blinding, then losing one big fight and gg-ing.
Faster, dynamic switches to counter would benefit the current beta greatly imo.
Snowfield
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
1289 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-20 15:02:28
April 20 2010 14:59 GMT
#37
Would giving forcefields health be a good idea? essentially a field tank to soak up damage? it would have to be put on the lowest priority of possible targets atleast.

i think a better nerf would be that forcefields cannot be put ontop of eachother so making a wall midfight would be alot harder. it would be like a building, not blocked by units, but by other fore fields, so you couldnt do they instant wall that most players do now where they just drag the mouse and spam click.

on scouting: we wouldnt want scouting to be too easy either: (read: cnc)

so instead of making claims that it is too hard, maybe post some ideas you think would work well?
BadWithNames
Profile Joined April 2010
United States441 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-20 15:03:55
April 20 2010 14:59 GMT
#38
Nice article. Made me think that's for sure. I wonder if people spend more time talking about "how" certain things should be balanced than "why" certain things should be balanced.
One year in Seoul...yesh please
Rabiator
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany3948 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-20 15:12:08
April 20 2010 14:59 GMT
#39
Great writeup, but I think you forgot two things: Map size and "damage density".

Many of the current (or even pre-patch-X) problems with certain units are a direct consequence of the size of the maps. Marauder rushes pre Patch 8 would probably not have such huge success on a larger map, because the defender has more time to prepare and consequently more troops. The same might be true for Immortals if you walk them over to the opponents base.

Some mechanics will affect the gameplay severely on a larger map and the biggest "offender" here is probably Warp Gate. In itself it might not be such a problem, but because the cooldown can be Chrono boosted it seems "too flexible". Another thing is the Nydus network, which only needs sight to connect to its target location. You will not be able to cover all your base in the few seconds it needs to spawn and move troops over there to kill it. These two "distance does not matter for deployment" mechanics are extremely flexible and might make the whole game unstable on larger maps. We will have to wait and see what happens after the content patch this month though.

One comparison between SC2 and BW is obvious: Unit movement allows for "tight ball formations" and I dont think that is a good thing, because it means you cant defend a large open spaces. Psi Storm and EMP already had their radius reduced and this favors the tight ball even more; that was a mistake IMO. Due to this "high damage density" defensive structures and any building usually fall in a matter of seconds and hardly seem worth the effort. This is another big concern I have atm, which does not have anything to do with the actual units themselves.

On April 20 2010 23:30 mcneebs wrote:
I still don't know why so many new players feel that they know how to balance a game better than those who have been designing them for the past 15 years.

Sometimes "you've got to be one to know one" is true and sometimes the opposite works better. With constant immersion in the game designing the Blizzard employees arent really objective enough to judge things in a good light. They have already acknowledged that players came up with a lot more creative strategies than they themselves thought possible. So "trusting your government to do it right" is bad in this case and the people need to have a voice in the decision making.
If you cant say what you're meaning, you can never mean what you're saying.
colapro
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden12 Posts
April 20 2010 15:01 GMT
#40
Great article!
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 12 13 14 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
GSL
08:00
GSL CK #2
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
herO (Afreeca) 88
Rex 21
StarCraft: Brood War
Hm[arnc] 1556
Sea 519
Killer 459
BeSt 223
Stork 219
Larva 181
Leta 115
NotJumperer 100
ToSsGirL 52
HiyA 44
[ Show more ]
Mind 35
Sacsri 25
soO 19
Aegong 16
Shinee 14
Bale 11
Britney 1
Dota 2
XaKoH 344
NeuroSwarm117
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1071
m0e_tv499
shoxiejesuss58
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King25
Other Games
ceh9431
Happy226
ViBE83
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP10
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt665
• HappyZerGling119
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
3h 45m
Monday Night Weeklies
8h 45m
WardiTV Team League
1d 3h
PiGosaur Cup
1d 15h
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
OSC
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
KCM Race Survival
3 days
WardiTV Team League
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
KCM Race Survival
4 days
WardiTV Team League
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
BSL
5 days
BSL
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-15
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
2026 Changsha Offline CUP
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
NationLESS Cup
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.