• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:55
CEST 06:55
KST 13:55
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors7Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists22
Community News
Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event11Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results12026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25Maestros of the Game 2 announced9
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) 2026 GSL Season 2 Qualifiers Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $1,400 SEL Season 3 Ladder Invitational
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors ASL21 General Discussion Why there arent any 256x256 pro maps? BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro8 Day 3 [ASL21] Ro8 Day 4 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro8 Day 2
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Dawn of War IV Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread OutLive 25 (RTS Game) Daigo vs Menard Best of 10 Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread 3D technology/software discussion Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Movie Stars In Video Games: …
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1421 users

[SC2B] Power Overwhelming - Page 2

Forum Index > News
275 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 12 13 14 Next All
Lighioana
Profile Joined March 2010
Norway466 Posts
April 20 2010 14:48 GMT
#21
I have the felling Blizzard is too afraid and tries to play it too safe which can potentialy make SC2 fail.
And forgive me nothing for I truly meant it all
Senx
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Sweden5901 Posts
April 20 2010 14:48 GMT
#22
The exact reason why we'll never see units like Lurkers and Defilers in SC2 - It requires way too much skill to counter/deal with it and it would scare away a big part of the casual players.

Issue with that is that we'll never see moments like "wow look at that amazing reaver micro" or "wow look at how well he dealt with that reaver harass" or "wow a perfect split with those m&m against those lurkers, that is soo hard to do" in SC2.

Which makes me a little bit sad
"trash micro but win - its marine" MC commentary during HSC 4
eLZyBee
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United Kingdom34 Posts
April 20 2010 14:49 GMT
#23
Great article, essentially we need lurkers and dark swarm to make a triumphant return!
gg
3nickma
Profile Joined November 2007
Denmark1510 Posts
April 20 2010 14:50 GMT
#24
This article is OP
L E E J A E D O N G ! <3
CCGaunt
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States417 Posts
April 20 2010 14:50 GMT
#25
It does make a lot of sense. While nerf's may be herald as good, they might just make the game boring.
Take me to Korea
Prise
Profile Joined April 2010
Denmark23 Posts
April 20 2010 14:51 GMT
#26
Very nice read. It's a difficult line to draw though - when does something need nerfing (1.02 reaver), and when will players adapting balance it out by itself?
wtf
michiko
Profile Joined April 2010
United States75 Posts
April 20 2010 14:51 GMT
#27
Good article. I would focus more on making points and less on; "See! I made a call that Blizzard made! Me so smart!"

4/5
Vhex
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada14 Posts
April 20 2010 14:52 GMT
#28
Great Article, well put.
Don't cross the STREAMS!!!
ScytheMan01
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States114 Posts
April 20 2010 14:52 GMT
#29
great stuff, love the force field idea
Arragoth
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada9 Posts
April 20 2010 14:52 GMT
#30
Great article. I couldn't agree more, all this nerfing only hurts the game.

I simply cannot beat a good Protoss player right now as Zerg but I haven't called out for a single nerf. I want to figure it out cause I know there has to be a way.
iounas
Profile Joined July 2008
409 Posts
April 20 2010 14:55 GMT
#31
Reminds me of mothership overnerfing.
IdrA: stalkers actually do negative damage. when you shoot a marine with a stalker it gains health.
LaughingTulkas
Profile Joined March 2008
United States1107 Posts
April 20 2010 14:56 GMT
#32
I do agree that these things hurt the game at the highest level, but I think this is actually intentionally part of blizzards plan because it makes the game more noob-friendly. The creative counters are sometimes pretty hard to pull off for beginning users, and blizz is aiming for a wider net in this game.

(interestingly, I disagree about the FF, I just think you shouldn't be able to move units as much with them, but have to cast in mostly open spaces instead)
"I love noobies, they're so happy." -Chill
Alegzandur
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Philippines52 Posts
April 20 2010 14:56 GMT
#33
They are actually aware of this aren't they? Dustin Browder said that the most important thing he learned from the previous developer is to not be too quick on nerfing things but I guess they just felt that stuff like the roach movement while burrowed wasn't the direction they wanted (though i do agree it should be changed back to the faster speed)
Soet
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden66 Posts
April 20 2010 14:58 GMT
#34
Good article
Not Good Just Better Than You
FarbrorAbavna
Profile Joined July 2009
Sweden4856 Posts
April 20 2010 14:58 GMT
#35
Very interesting article and a new prespective(well to most people anyways) on the whole balance issue. Agree on your thoughts as a whole but the article ends in a pretty funny note, like other have pointed out, that you first say how ff is imba and then talk about how things need to be imba and then how blizz should nerf ff
Do you really want chat rooms?
Sadistx
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
April 20 2010 14:58 GMT
#36
Meh, everything written in this article has already been said or proposed multiple times. A lot of new posters actually have great ideas, some of which were exactly for the nerfs that already made it into current patches.

Making everything a little "too good" is Sirlin's method of approaching balance and also the right one.

The meta game currently suffers, because the way to scout opponent tech are expensive (sacrificing a mule for terran and getting expensive obs as P or suiciding multiple overlords). Scouting should be cheaper to allow people to switch up faster instead of massing up blinding, then losing one big fight and gg-ing.
Faster, dynamic switches to counter would benefit the current beta greatly imo.
Snowfield
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
1289 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-20 15:02:28
April 20 2010 14:59 GMT
#37
Would giving forcefields health be a good idea? essentially a field tank to soak up damage? it would have to be put on the lowest priority of possible targets atleast.

i think a better nerf would be that forcefields cannot be put ontop of eachother so making a wall midfight would be alot harder. it would be like a building, not blocked by units, but by other fore fields, so you couldnt do they instant wall that most players do now where they just drag the mouse and spam click.

on scouting: we wouldnt want scouting to be too easy either: (read: cnc)

so instead of making claims that it is too hard, maybe post some ideas you think would work well?
BadWithNames
Profile Joined April 2010
United States441 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-20 15:03:55
April 20 2010 14:59 GMT
#38
Nice article. Made me think that's for sure. I wonder if people spend more time talking about "how" certain things should be balanced than "why" certain things should be balanced.
One year in Seoul...yesh please
Rabiator
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany3948 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-20 15:12:08
April 20 2010 14:59 GMT
#39
Great writeup, but I think you forgot two things: Map size and "damage density".

Many of the current (or even pre-patch-X) problems with certain units are a direct consequence of the size of the maps. Marauder rushes pre Patch 8 would probably not have such huge success on a larger map, because the defender has more time to prepare and consequently more troops. The same might be true for Immortals if you walk them over to the opponents base.

Some mechanics will affect the gameplay severely on a larger map and the biggest "offender" here is probably Warp Gate. In itself it might not be such a problem, but because the cooldown can be Chrono boosted it seems "too flexible". Another thing is the Nydus network, which only needs sight to connect to its target location. You will not be able to cover all your base in the few seconds it needs to spawn and move troops over there to kill it. These two "distance does not matter for deployment" mechanics are extremely flexible and might make the whole game unstable on larger maps. We will have to wait and see what happens after the content patch this month though.

One comparison between SC2 and BW is obvious: Unit movement allows for "tight ball formations" and I dont think that is a good thing, because it means you cant defend a large open spaces. Psi Storm and EMP already had their radius reduced and this favors the tight ball even more; that was a mistake IMO. Due to this "high damage density" defensive structures and any building usually fall in a matter of seconds and hardly seem worth the effort. This is another big concern I have atm, which does not have anything to do with the actual units themselves.

On April 20 2010 23:30 mcneebs wrote:
I still don't know why so many new players feel that they know how to balance a game better than those who have been designing them for the past 15 years.

Sometimes "you've got to be one to know one" is true and sometimes the opposite works better. With constant immersion in the game designing the Blizzard employees arent really objective enough to judge things in a good light. They have already acknowledged that players came up with a lot more creative strategies than they themselves thought possible. So "trusting your government to do it right" is bad in this case and the people need to have a voice in the decision making.
If you cant say what you're meaning, you can never mean what you're saying.
colapro
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden12 Posts
April 20 2010 15:01 GMT
#40
Great article!
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 12 13 14 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
PiGosaur Cup #76
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 202
Nina 74
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 3620
JulyZerg 157
910 50
Shinee 29
Noble 19
Bale 12
Icarus 9
GoRush 4
ZergMaN 2
League of Legends
JimRising 841
Counter-Strike
Coldzera 1774
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox2292
Mew2King69
Other Games
summit1g7134
C9.Mang0514
WinterStarcraft460
monkeys_forever251
NeuroSwarm64
ViBE33
kaitlyn0
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick976
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream61
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• practicex 33
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki26
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1190
• Rush1097
• Stunt393
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5h 5m
Afreeca Starleague
5h 5m
Snow vs Flash
WardiTV Invitational
6h 5m
SHIN vs Nicoract
Solar vs Nice
PiGosaur Cup
19h 5m
GSL
1d 4h
Classic vs Cure
Maru vs Rogue
GSL
2 days
SHIN vs Zoun
ByuN vs herO
OSC
2 days
OSC
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Escore
3 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
Zoun vs Ryung
Lambo vs ShoWTimE
OSC
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
SHIN vs Bunny
ByuN vs Shameless
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
Krystianer vs TriGGeR
Cure vs Rogue
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
BSL
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Cure vs Zoun
Clem vs Lambo
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
BSL
5 days
GSL
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-05-02
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026

Upcoming

YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W6
KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
Escore Tournament S2: W7
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.