EPT[SC2B] Power Overwhelming - Page 12
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Rantech
Chile527 Posts
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Clownz
Finland53 Posts
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pred470r
Bulgaria3265 Posts
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locopuyo
United States144 Posts
So instead of nerfing Thors against zerg, give Infesters burrowed neural parasite. | ||
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zigrek
Bulgaria45 Posts
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mpark015
United States39 Posts
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pedduck
Thailand468 Posts
the same amount of mineral buying different unit from different race does not have to be equal in term of strength or mobility. That is why some people( including me) believe balancing SC2 just like SC1 will be very hard, it is 10 years of trial and error combine with some luck from blizzard that we have the game as it is today. | ||
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eXNewB
Canada291 Posts
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HollOwed
United States17 Posts
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zigrek
Bulgaria45 Posts
On April 21 2010 21:33 eXNewB wrote: Good job at pointing out the obvious :D Blizzard just got lucky, let's face the fact; it's not going to happen again. SC2 WILL flop Why the scepticism ? | ||
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JohnnySmash
United States14 Posts
On April 21 2010 06:25 milly9 wrote: I don't understand this post, his last thought about FF completely contradicts everything he has just said. I'm not even talking about balance here, I have no strong feelings one way or the other if FF is OP or just too good. Hah seriously "do as i say not as i do" | ||
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evilm0nkey
53 Posts
In BW there is a lot of "overpowered" stuff and still the game can be considered as extremely well balanced because everything can somehow be countered. The risk of having such overpowered units / unit combos is, that it may kill the strategical diversity of the game. Example: in BW TvP there is no point in building barracks units (except for one very small timing window), and the only reason for this is that storms are so incredibly strong against them. Even after 12 years nobody has figured out how to play bio in TvP mid / lategame and most likely nobody ever will. Thats half of Terrans units being almost completely useless in this MU as long as you dont want to all in. I think thats really bad balancing in some way! There are other matchups with similar problems, like ZvZ, which is very stiff, the players dont have many choices to do as soon as the initial build order was picked, all because of muta > everything else. Compare this to SC2s ZvZ wich is ridiculusly diverse for a mirror matchup. Kind of overpowered stuff IS needed to make the game interesting but you must find a balance so that it doesnt shut down completely a big part of the choices a player can take. I think SC2 will be a game where you can play in a more creative way, even when it gets mapped out more and more. | ||
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MiraMax
Germany532 Posts
It is true that lots of folks are too quick to judge sth OP or too good, just because it's extremely good in some situations. So one should be cautious with the nerf bat. But buffing everything else to extremes (which seems to be implied by making everything too good) is equally naive. It's also not a question between all-purpose unit vs. special purpose unit. Both unit types can be too good (in relation to everything else), it's just that special purpose units can usually be hard-countered more easily, which at least makes army composition become important. However, we can all agree that a game around hard counters could just as well end up as rock-paper-scissors in space. What impresses me the most in BW is that a lot of the "counters" don't come from simple unit stats, but rather involve good micro or positional play (which can also backfire if you screw up). This makes counters situational rather than global and results to a highly dynamic game where huge overturns due to awesome plays or seemingly slight mistakes become possible. All the examples given in the article (like mines, lurker play, dark swarm and irradiate) underline that imo. | ||
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PapaDragon
Germany57 Posts
In WoW it is habit to moan about every single change in every patch. Everybody is like: WOOOOT thats so OP !! NERF THIS!! NERF THAT!! | ||
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Felby
Norway81 Posts
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Ghardo
Germany1685 Posts
I still can't really set aside the issues I got with force field. It's exactly like you put it, for the protoss player it's the single most fun ability to use vs his opponent - for the opponent it's the single most annoying ability to play against. In another thread I made a comparison to the riot shield from CS 1.6 which has an equal reputation amongst the community (source). And similarly, it only depends on the player who is "lame enough" to equip the riot shield to make a mistake so you can deal damage to him. If he decided to dodge you forever he could do that as well. And this is what makes both these features not imbalanced, but an element of disrupting the natural flow and the intention of the game: fighting battles in the most skillfull and artistic way possible (which is not "haha i cut off half your army and now i just clear the trash - battle over"). That's what battles in SC2 should be about: On April 21 2010 03:51 Liquid`Drone wrote: [...], all the game-turning spells of brood war, were all possible for the opposing player to if not defend completely against, then at least reduce the effectiveness of. in fact, I think watching a zerg player instantly split out his one irradiated muta from the bunch, or a zerg player perfectly dodging storms with his 4 control groups of hydralisks is just as exciting (or quite possibly more) as watching the protoss player throw those storms. with force field, it's just not like that. You just don't have this "two-way-excitement" of the ability. | ||
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PapaDragon
Germany57 Posts
counters forcefields easy. Forcefields are useless against air. and btw. what about EMP ? Thats clearly OP too.... | ||
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xref
Norway1 Post
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Shiladie
Canada1631 Posts
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SichuanPanda
Canada1542 Posts
Lots of people keep talking about the 'rush happy' attitude of players, and I think that is really because no one is confident with running up the tech tree yet, simply because every SC2B player is inexperienced in the game (lets face it even 2500 games isn't enough to fully explore an RTS like SC). If one can recall, it is widely known that at the launch of SC, BW, War3, and War3 TFT, rushes were the staple play - they are easy to perform, effective, and don't rely on precariously teching while defending with a small force. I firmly believe that once this game has been out a year, two years, and after the first expansion, each point will show a shift in play dynamics. And perhaps once the full version comes along a pro like Flash or Jaedong will come along and show us how to play properly (I mean in terms of how the general play style changed because of these players, and not their skill per se). Edit: Just wanted to briefly touch on Immortals and Force Field since this seems to be what most people are having trouble with. Immortals should not have their bonus damage reduced - yeah I said it. Quite simply the only counters Protoss has to mass armored units are quite simple - an ungodly amount of 3/3/3 Zealots /w Charge, Carriers, Void Rays, and Immortals. Everything but Immortals is automatically off the list as all of those units serve another key role in the Protoss army, and also are not cost effective as a counter. The main reason I see people complaining about Immortals is how P can go from having none, to 6 in only a couple of minutes. I'd say that a 25% build time increase on Immortals would be the way to solve this if it really is an imbalance, not a stat nerf. Furthermore, it would seem that the counter to Immortals is not making a 100% armored army versus a Protoss. We all know they will get Immortals to counter our armor - so go something else, mass bio even, force them to go Archons to counter that, then switch to armored after they are taxed for gas. Force Field is definitely a powerful ability, but I'm inclined to say that it is not imbalanced, as the cost to mass enough sentries to effectively split an entire army, or even wall off part of an army is very very gas intensive to say the least. This will slow down P for the entire game if they commit to mass Sentries, and provided the player defending against the P sets up proper defense, it would seem to me that player will come out with an advantage, in the form of having 800-1200 more gas than the P. | ||
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