EPT
[SC2B] Micro Revisited - Page 3
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torm3ntin
Brazil2534 Posts
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d_so
Korea (South)3262 Posts
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LuDwig-
Italy1143 Posts
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blipster8
United States71 Posts
On March 13 2010 17:00 madsweepslol wrote: It's interesting that you would call someone pointing to historical precedent a troll. Guess you're not a big fan of facts, are you? I'm not on either side here in terms of the point jodogohoo was trying to make (I don't have an opinion). But for the record, it is blatantly not the case that a post which contains no provably untrue statements cannot be a troll post. Concluding that "it's too early to tell" is going to annoy anyone who thinks the evidence he cited isn't sufficient. Whether he was trolling is then hard to tell, since it just comes down to whether he made the post to argue or to annoy people, which only he knows. If I go into some thread for Bisu fans and say that he's been losing a large percentage of his games lately and I think he's on the way out as a top progamer, I'm not saying anything specifically untrue, but I'd guess most people would think I was trolling anyway. | ||
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d_so
Korea (South)3262 Posts
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chobopeon
United States7342 Posts
On March 14 2010 02:27 d_so wrote: ^ your second sentence has a quadruple negative no no no no haha | ||
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Xage
Hungary4 Posts
How can I follow this stream? On which link? Pls help! | ||
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chobopeon
United States7342 Posts
On March 14 2010 02:30 Xage wrote: Hi! How can I follow this stream? On which link? Pls help! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=114931 the link will be posted there in an hour and a half | ||
snowdrift
France2061 Posts
On March 13 2010 16:08 madsweepslol wrote: When were many of the micro tricks that define today's quality StarCraft play discovered? When did we first see rine splitting around lurkers or muta micro? Not for years after BW was released. So I say to you: it's too early to tell. This is true, but only up to a point. It won't take years to see if SC2 delivers on the micro side of things -- players are coming into the game with a wealth of knowledge built up from years of SCBW, compounded by their experience with other RTS games. And they're actively looking for these bits and pieces of micro, as evinced by threads like "Tricks, Tips, Tactics", Queue-attacking: the new pro-level micro?", etc. Also, like it or not, people will judge the game as is when it's released. If someone has a complaint, simply responding "come back in ten years, it'll be great" is a pretty limited argument. | ||
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madsweepslol
161 Posts
On March 14 2010 02:24 blipster8 wrote: I'm not on either side here in terms of the point jodogohoo was trying to make (I don't have an opinion). But for the record, it is blatantly not the case that a post which contains no provably untrue statements cannot be a troll post. Concluding that "it's too early to tell" is going to annoy anyone who thinks the evidence he cited isn't sufficient. Whether he was trolling is then hard to tell, since it just comes down to whether he made the post to argue or to annoy people, which only he knows. If I go into some thread for Bisu fans and say that he's been losing a large percentage of his games lately and I think he's on the way out as a top progamer, I'm not saying anything specifically untrue, but I'd guess most people would think I was trolling anyway. True, "it is blatantly not the case that a post which contains no provably untrue statements cannot be a troll post," but if said post is an observation on precedent made from the stand point of common sense, it's hard to see how it could be considered trolling. By your logic, jodogohoo could be trolling because the sentiment that SC2 micro doesn't lend itself to competition isn't "provably untrue" as yet, and considering I don't think a couple weeks of beta is sufficient evidence to support his assertion he could be posting to annoy people. On March 14 2010 02:41 snowdrift86 wrote: This is true, but only up to a point. It won't take years to see if SC2 delivers on the micro side of things -- players are coming into the game with a wealth of knowledge built up from years of SCBW, compounded by their experience with other RTS games. And they're actively looking for these bits and pieces of micro, as evinced by threads like "Tricks, Tips, Tactics", Queue-attacking: the new pro-level micro?", etc. Also, like it or not, people will judge the game as is when it's released. If someone has a complaint, simply responding "come back in ten years, it'll be great," is a pretty limited argument. It may not take as long for competitive SC2 to reach the level that competitive BW has, in fact it probably won't, but it'll certainly take longer than a couple weeks of beta. And of course people are free to judge whatever they want whenever they want, but if it seems premature I'm going to tell them I think so, like it or not. Neither is my argument "come back in ten years," it's that BW competitive play as we know it took a decade to evolve and we're only two weeks into beta, so be patient. | ||
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RPGabe
United States192 Posts
I remember participating in War3 beta - the game was entirely different from early beta to release, and it changed even more in the first few months after release. Just relax - the game will come together with time. | ||
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Doc Daneeka
United States577 Posts
seriously, if the community can take a broken as hell game like sc1 at release and turn it into what it is today, you don't think they'll find a way to evolve this? blizzard doesn't fuck around. if you've got mad APM, use it to do something the other player can't. micro tactics aren't going to invent themselves. | ||
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Seku
United States313 Posts
On March 14 2010 05:31 Doc Daneeka wrote: seriously, if the community can take a broken as hell game like sc1 at release and turn it into what it is today, you don't think they'll find a way to evolve this? blizzard doesn't fuck around. if you've got mad APM, use it to do something the other player can't. micro tactics aren't going to invent themselves. Nobody is saying micro doesn't exist at all in SC2 or that we know how to control all of the units to be their most effective- only that the lowered necessity, difficulty, and effectiveness of micro compared to SC1 makes it so much less fun to execute and watch that "micro" as we knew it is dead. | ||
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Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
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hyst.eric.al
United States2332 Posts
wish i could experience this beta D: | ||
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
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TurboT
Germany33 Posts
You aren't really suggesting that hydras should die to one storm again, so uninformed observers can understand whats happening in the game, are you? Uninformed in this case is equal to uninterested. If you haven't played Starcraft, there is no point in watching starcraft. (except you are korean...but they will play it anyways!). Making the game "visually understandable" by strengthening interactions such as psystorm on hydras may help the observers but you will not change the motivation of non-players to look at a 20min game they don't understand. The adjustments may even damage the playexperience. Gameplay has to be king after all. Don't get me wrong, I'd love a bigger Esport community, Starcraft 2 Channels in television and a spread variety of huge tournaments throughout europe and america. But this discussion is a step in the wrong direction imo. If you feel unchallenged by Starcraft 2 and hate the way your units cluster up, start spreading them with the apm you doubtedly don't need right now. Instead of questioning the "observability" and micromanagement potential of a brand new game, we should start taking our own playstyle to the limits and define the "observability" ourselves! | ||
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Merlin
United States82 Posts
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Jayde
Marshall Islands104 Posts
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cerebralz
United States443 Posts
WhiteRa vs. Jinro PvT WhiteRa vs Jinro pt2 WhiteRa vs. Jinro pt3 WhiteRa vs Jinro pt4 | ||
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