EPT[MSL] SouL Survivor - Page 3
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lynx.oblige
Sierra Leone2268 Posts
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benjammin
United States2728 Posts
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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Patriot.dlk
Sweden5462 Posts
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mrgerry
United States1508 Posts
On September 08 2009 15:21 Velr wrote: But for some reason the STX Coach looked so damn happy as calm won, it was such a joy to look at him. I think it's just cause he looks so sad in all the PL matches. I think that was the first time I've seen him smile ^_^ | ||
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Alethios
New Zealand2765 Posts
Then i suppose there is the question of his victory over Jaedong... I think Calm played well versus Jaedong. He deserved to win those games. You can't however simply dismiss Jaedong incredible schedule by saying "Oh well.. people said that when Savior lost". Jaedong was focusing on the proleague first, and the quest for his golden mouse second and perhaps as a direct result lost a Bo5 against a good zerg. Regardless, the fact remains that Calm, unlike Bisu in GomS1 (who you're drawing comparisons with) has not been truly tested by the MSL! Calm is, as you said, at a crossroads. He won a MSL, albeit one that is widely regarded to be one of the worst in recent history. From here, he can go onto doing great things, or become another GGPlay. | ||
JWD
United States12607 Posts
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MutaDoom
Canada1163 Posts
On September 08 2009 16:06 JWD wrote: Congratulations on competing a season's worth of coverage HB! No kidding, very well done. | ||
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exeprime
United Kingdom643 Posts
On September 08 2009 15:50 Alethios wrote: Sorry Hot Bid, but I don't agree with your premise. Calm beat a bunch of past it terrans and a few shit zerg players? Big whoop. He played some games for a rather arbitrary amount of time, which ended up gaining him a title, but wasn't really ever truly tested. Then i suppose there is the question of his victory over Jaedong... I think Calm played well versus Jaedong. He deserved to win those games. You can't however simply dismiss Jaedong incredible schedule by saying "Oh well.. people said that when Savior lost". Jaedong was focusing on the proleague first, and the quest for his golden mouse second and perhaps as a direct result lost a Bo5 against a good zerg. Regardless, the fact remains that Calm, unlike Bisu in GomS1 (who you're drawing comparisons with) has not been truly tested by the MSL! Calm is, as you said, at a crossroads. He won a MSL, albeit one that is widely regarded to be one of the worst in recent history. From here, he can go onto doing great things, or become another GGPlay. A final that is regarded to be bad mostly by people that didn't watch the games. Both Effort and Jaedong were on top of their game when Calm met them, and claiming that somehow JD's schedule hindered his play... well, it seems rather silly to me. It's ZvZ, Jaedong's best matchup, and one that isn't very varied / strategically complex - it's lings, mutas and scourge, and that's it. Jaedong played his zerg the way he always does, and I doubt more practice would've changed anything. And claiming Calm's victory to be less relevant because he only beat zergs and a couple weaker terrans doesn't make sense either. MSL, OSL and Blizzcon all had ZvZ finals, because Zerg was so goddamn good this season / on these maps. So by facing the two strongest zergs (at the time) Calm actually had the toughest competition, in the matchup that was his worst before the MSL. Of course Calm has a lot more to prove. But he won this MSL fair and sqare, against good opponents and with convincing games. Diminishing that is just wrong. | ||
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wiesel
Germany727 Posts
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
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amorpheus
Bulgaria2144 Posts
On September 08 2009 10:45 Ideas wrote: Great write-up. This is probably the best MSL article I've ever read!  ) | ||
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Alethios
New Zealand2765 Posts
On September 08 2009 18:19 exeprime wrote: A final that is regarded to be bad mostly by people that didn't watch the games. Both Effort and Jaedong were on top of their game when Calm met them, and claiming that somehow JD's schedule hindered his play... well, it seems rather silly to me. It's ZvZ, Jaedong's best matchup, and one that isn't very varied / strategically complex - it's lings, mutas and scourge, and that's it. Jaedong played his zerg the way he always does, and I doubt more practice would've changed anything. And claiming Calm's victory to be less relevant because he only beat zergs and a couple weaker terrans doesn't make sense either. MSL, OSL and Blizzcon all had ZvZ finals, because Zerg was so goddamn good this season / on these maps. So by facing the two strongest zergs (at the time) Calm actually had the toughest competition, in the matchup that was his worst before the MSL. Of course Calm has a lot more to prove. But he won this MSL fair and sqare, against good opponents and with convincing games. Diminishing that is just wrong. In essence, you claim the following: -The MSL final wasn't bad. You didn't say however, that the MSL wasn't. -Effort and Jaedong were at the absolute peak of their games, and Calm beat them both. -This is significant because ZvZ is the hardest matchup at the moment for Zergs because they stomp the other races. Firstly, the final. Calm versus Kwanro, who you neglect to mention, entirely with good reason. Kwanro (love or hate him), has not won a ZvZ this season against anybody but Zero and great. Furthermore, he is completely absent from the power rank (or even the CBNC catergory), despite being in a MSL final. Hardly the record of a serious contender to the MSL crown. Now look at this month's power rank. Effort, slipped down to 10 because "The CJ Zerg didn't really put much of himself into playing these few weeks, and it shows." Jaedong, whos best matchup has admittedly traditionally been ZvZ was instead losing to players like Hyuk, Orion and Effort. Hardly the performance of a ZvZ bonjwa who our valiant hero Calm beat, against the odds. Again, look at the power rank "For most players, a week like that would have meant only one thing, a beginning of a long, excruciatingly bad slump". I'm not trying to make excuses for Jaedong. but It's you trying to make excuses for Calm. Now this idea of the ZvZ being damned tough. Full credit to Calm. He pulled off some great plays throughout the tournament. He turned his weakness into a relative strength and anybody deserves credit for that. Firstly, It further diminishes his wins against the Terrans early on, leaving only his ZvZ matches to speak well of him, but they don't. He won them, he often won them convincingly, but, in my opinion, he has yet to prove anything significant. I admired Calm's games this season, I eagerly await to see where he goes from here, but I don't see any evidence to suggest that this MSL should be regarded as an amazing achievement on par with, for example, Bisu's win in Gom S1, or most other starleagues for that matter, as Hot Bid suggests. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10991 Posts
If it would have been *all* PvP or *all* TvT... People would react pretty *diffrent*. Calm has not *that* much to proof. He was one of the top 3 Zergs during the PL season?... He was a legitimate candidate for a title, not a top favorite (only flash/jaedong/bisu and fantasy are favorite everytime they enter) but for sure not as big of an underdog as people say. | ||
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Zplut
Germany90 Posts
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Dagobert
Netherlands1858 Posts
Well, I guess if you call a tremendous training schedule for proleague and two major individual leagues, personal problems / FA disaster 'absolute peak of his game'... | ||
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qrs
United States3637 Posts
On September 08 2009 23:24 Dagobert wrote: "-Effort and Jaedong were at the absolute peak of their games, and Calm beat them both." Well, I guess if you call a tremendous training schedule for proleague and two major individual leagues, personal problems / FA disaster 'absolute peak of his game'... yes, being in the proleague finals and the semi-finals of two major individual leagues (not to mention quarter-finals of the third) does show that Jaedong is on peak form at the moment. Also, going 7 - 1 in his next 8 ZvZs after Calm beat him, to sweep the OSL finals and qualify for WCG, shows that Jaedong's ZvZ is as sharp as ever. | ||
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tedster
984 Posts
On September 08 2009 15:28 benjammin wrote: hmm, jd's gomtv msl wasn't more dominant? 13-3 versus much stronger opponents This makes absolutely no sense, Calm had to go through the strongest opponent ever in his prime and the hottest player in the game. How can you talk up Jaedong and then pretend beating Jaedong isn't harder than whatever JD did? It's physically impossible. If Jaedong is the best then beating JD is the most impressive thing you can do. That's pretty much the end of the line it's not like there's a special hidden boss afterwards. | ||
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WWJDD
India342 Posts
On September 08 2009 15:48 TwoToneTerran wrote: Not really, Jaedong didn't have to play Jaedong. That right there proves it. No matter how much of a run Jaedong has. Unless he plays Bisu and Flash back to back to win, he wouldn't have had a better run, because there's no way he's getting credit for defeating any zerg. | ||
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tedster
984 Posts
On September 09 2009 00:17 qrs wrote: yes, being in the proleague finals and the semi-finals of two major individual leagues (not to mention quarter-finals of the third) does show that Jaedong is on peak form at the moment. Also, going 7 - 1 in his next 8 ZvZs after Calm beat him, to sweep the OSL finals and qualify for WCG, shows that Jaedong's ZvZ is as sharp as ever. Exactly, JD just won an OSL in dominant fashion if you somehow missed it, and was playing well enough to make 2 finals and 1 semifinal. Apparently his practice schedule didn't hurt his ability to be the #1 ranked player in the world, win a title, and continue to dominate his best matchup (ZvZ) at the exact same time that Calm was beating the hell out of him for an MSL title. Blaming JD's practice schedule and nerves is stupid and completely ignores his actual gameplay. He won an OSL, is highly celebrated for this, and you still pretend he "wasn't in top form" despite rolling to a 3-0 victory and getting 3rd-1st in every major tourney? That's pretty dishonest. | ||
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