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[MSL] SouL Survivor - Page 4

Forum Index > News
74 CommentsPost a Reply
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exeprime
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United Kingdom643 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-08 15:49:07
September 08 2009 15:47 GMT
#61
On September 08 2009 20:11 Alethios wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 08 2009 18:19 exeprime wrote:
On September 08 2009 15:50 Alethios wrote:
Sorry Hot Bid, but I don't agree with your premise. Calm beat a bunch of past it terrans and a few shit zerg players? Big whoop. He played some games for a rather arbitrary amount of time, which ended up gaining him a title, but wasn't really ever truly tested.

Then i suppose there is the question of his victory over Jaedong... I think Calm played well versus Jaedong. He deserved to win those games. You can't however simply dismiss Jaedong incredible schedule by saying "Oh well.. people said that when Savior lost". Jaedong was focusing on the proleague first, and the quest for his golden mouse second and perhaps as a direct result lost a Bo5 against a good zerg. Regardless, the fact remains that Calm, unlike Bisu in GomS1 (who you're drawing comparisons with) has not been truly tested by the MSL!

Calm is, as you said, at a crossroads. He won a MSL, albeit one that is widely regarded to be one of the worst in recent history. From here, he can go onto doing great things, or become another GGPlay.



A final that is regarded to be bad mostly by people that didn't watch the games.

Both Effort and Jaedong were on top of their game when Calm met them, and claiming that somehow JD's schedule hindered his play... well, it seems rather silly to me. It's ZvZ, Jaedong's best matchup, and one that isn't very varied / strategically complex - it's lings, mutas and scourge, and that's it. Jaedong played his zerg the way he always does, and I doubt more practice would've changed anything.

And claiming Calm's victory to be less relevant because he only beat zergs and a couple weaker terrans doesn't make sense either. MSL, OSL and Blizzcon all had ZvZ finals, because Zerg was so goddamn good this season / on these maps. So by facing the two strongest zergs (at the time) Calm actually had the toughest competition, in the matchup that was his worst before the MSL.

Of course Calm has a lot more to prove. But he won this MSL fair and sqare, against good opponents and with convincing games. Diminishing that is just wrong.


In essence, you claim the following:

-The MSL final wasn't bad. You didn't say however, that the MSL wasn't.
-Effort and Jaedong were at the absolute peak of their games, and Calm beat them both.
-This is significant because ZvZ is the hardest matchup at the moment for Zergs because they stomp the other races.

Firstly, the final. Calm versus Kwanro, who you neglect to mention, entirely with good reason. Kwanro (love or hate him), has not won a ZvZ this season against anybody but Zero and great. Furthermore, he is completely absent from the power rank (or even the CBNC catergory), despite being in a MSL final. Hardly the record of a serious contender to the MSL crown.

Now look at this month's power rank. Effort, slipped down to 10 because "The CJ Zerg didn't really put much of himself into playing these few weeks, and it shows." Jaedong, whos best matchup has admittedly traditionally been ZvZ was instead losing to players like Hyuk, Orion and Effort. Hardly the performance of a ZvZ bonjwa who our valiant hero Calm beat, against the odds. Again, look at the power rank "For most players, a week like that would have meant only one thing, a beginning of a long, excruciatingly bad slump". I'm not trying to make excuses for Jaedong. but It's you trying to make excuses for Calm.

Now this idea of the ZvZ being damned tough. Full credit to Calm. He pulled off some great plays throughout the tournament. He turned his weakness into a relative strength and anybody deserves credit for that. Firstly, It further diminishes his wins against the Terrans early on, leaving only his ZvZ matches to speak well of him, but they don't. He won them, he often won them convincingly, but, in my opinion, he has yet to prove anything significant.

I admired Calm's games this season, I eagerly await to see where he goes from here, but I don't see any evidence to suggest that this MSL should be regarded as an amazing achievement on par with, for example, Bisu's win in Gom S1, or most other starleagues for that matter, as Hot Bid suggests.


aaand

On September 08 2009 23:24 Dagobert wrote:
"-Effort and Jaedong were at the absolute peak of their games, and Calm beat them both."

Well, I guess if you call a tremendous training schedule for proleague and two major individual leagues, personal problems / FA disaster 'absolute peak of his game'...


Ok, I did exaggerate a bit, but still... the FA thing came much later, and it didn't seem to hinder him in the OSL. While he did lose a few games, he was on top of the Power Rank for a reason - overall Jaedong was doing better than anyone else. Yes he lost a few games. Still, in a short span of time, he went to the semifinals in the MSL, he won OSL (and his golden mouse) and was in the Proleague finals. With results like those it's hard to argue that Jaedong was in any way slumping.

Yes, Effort did produce less spectacular results lately, but at the moment of the game he was still seen as the 2nd best zerg, with a ZvZ that rivals JD's.

I guess the win would have been more spectacular (and memorable) if it didn't happen in a time of such obvious zerg domination - but the way I see it, it's no less of an achievement than say... Stork's OSL or Bisu's last MSL - both of which took place in a time of protoss dominance, when the six dragons were tearing things up.

He managed to beat two of the best players of the moment in the only matchup that couldn't invoke some map imbalance. Sure, it would have been nice if he had met the likes of Bisu, Fantasy or Flash along the way, but you can't meet all the aces in one tournament.

It wasn't a perfect MSL, but there is no such thing. While this win doesn't suddenly mean he's S-class, it is no less relevant than any other MSL title of any other player.
hyst.eric.al
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2332 Posts
September 08 2009 17:32 GMT
#62
yay calm! stx soul ftw next season!
Leta , BeSt, Calm fan forever! 김정우, I am sorry I ever lost faith in you.
BloodDrunK
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Bangladesh2767 Posts
September 08 2009 18:59 GMT
#63
congratz to calm.too bad for kwanro.oh well,better luck next time.
You have the power to create your own destiny.
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-09 07:22:42
September 09 2009 07:17 GMT
#64
On September 09 2009 00:42 WWJDD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 08 2009 15:48 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Not really, Jaedong didn't have to play Jaedong.


That right there proves it. No matter how much of a run Jaedong has. Unless he plays Bisu and Flash back to back to win, he wouldn't have had a better run, because there's no way he's getting credit for defeating any zerg.


I'm just saying, the MSL is the trash tourney of the two most of the time. Calm had the hardest MSL run up till the finals even if it was all in one match up, because Jaedong's ZvZ is second to no match and Effort's ZvZ is probably only second to Flash's TvT and Bisu's PvP (In current form at the time). Since he couldn't play against Flash's TvT and Bisu's PvP as a Zerg, those were the two toughest match ups he could face.

That said, it's far from the most impressive starleague run. Flash's OSL was more dominant (well I guess not as much if you consider group stages, but his BoX matches phase was definitely more dominant) and more impressive, and Savior's was definitely the most impressive ever. But, as always, it's the MSL, so the weight is a lot less.
Remember Violet.
thunk
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States6233 Posts
September 09 2009 08:56 GMT
#65
Geez. Forgg got the shaft. Mind and Lux were both remembered, and Mind was before ForGG.
Every time Jung Myung Hoon builds a vulture, two probes die. || My post count was a palindrome and I was never posting again.
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8182 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-09 16:19:23
September 09 2009 16:16 GMT
#66
On September 09 2009 17:56 thunk wrote:
Geez. Forgg got the shaft. Mind and Lux were both remembered, and Mind was before ForGG.


How calm does next season will determine if he is just another Mind/Lux/ForGG (will never do anything great again), the next fantasy/JangBi (not quite super S-class but huge starleague contender (even though now jangbi sucks he was fucking awesome earlier this year)) or a new S-class player on the ranks of bisu/flash/jaedong.

ForGG was in the same situation a year ago and I just dont know wtf happened. How does a player go from that good to that bad so quickly? But I didn't forget him his MSL run was so fucking awesome, Sea, Kal, flash, AND Jaedong? GODDAMN
Free Palestine
WWJDD
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
India342 Posts
September 09 2009 18:32 GMT
#67
On September 10 2009 01:16 Ideas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2009 17:56 thunk wrote:
Geez. Forgg got the shaft. Mind and Lux were both remembered, and Mind was before ForGG.


How calm does next season will determine if he is just another Mind/Lux/ForGG (will never do anything great again), the next fantasy/JangBi (not quite super S-class but huge starleague contender (even though now jangbi sucks he was fucking awesome earlier this year)) or a new S-class player on the ranks of bisu/flash/jaedong.

ForGG was in the same situation a year ago and I just dont know wtf happened. How does a player go from that good to that bad so quickly? But I didn't forget him his MSL run was so fucking awesome, Sea, Kal, flash, AND Jaedong? GODDAMN


Umm..... Doesn't becoming S Class like Jaedong, Bisu or Flash require mechanics to keep up with people when your strategy deserts you as it inevitably will in such a highly competitive sport. Does Calm have that? I think Effort has that. Calm still has to get that extra little bit better.
WWJDD??
tedster
Profile Joined May 2009
984 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-09 22:12:03
September 09 2009 22:10 GMT
#68
^^^^ Savior did it without having unstoppable mechanics, though it's harder with every passing year


On September 10 2009 01:16 Ideas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2009 17:56 thunk wrote:
Geez. Forgg got the shaft. Mind and Lux were both remembered, and Mind was before ForGG.


How calm does next season will determine if he is just another Mind/Lux/ForGG (will never do anything great again), the next fantasy/JangBi (not quite super S-class but huge starleague contender (even though now jangbi sucks he was fucking awesome earlier this year)) or a new S-class player on the ranks of bisu/flash/jaedong.

ForGG was in the same situation a year ago and I just dont know wtf happened. How does a player go from that good to that bad so quickly? But I didn't forget him his MSL run was so fucking awesome, Sea, Kal, flash, AND Jaedong? GODDAMN


Fantasy is pretty clearly super S-class, he's actually been a far more consistent player than Flash in big games for a long time now and is easily the most feared T player in the game. Otherwise I agree with your post etc. etc.
the last wcs commissioner
Oj.Mike
Profile Joined September 2009
United States4 Posts
September 09 2009 22:15 GMT
#69
congrats calm, well-deserved

thanks for the news, hotbid
Here I sit brokenhearted... came to shit and only farted
Grobyc
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada18410 Posts
September 10 2009 00:13 GMT
#70
Great write-up, but one question:
+ Show Spoiler +
Is it really necessary to pour champagne(?) all over Calms head? Seriously, he has to walk around drenched in alcohol for a while until he gets back home. I'd have to knock someone out if it were me...
If you watch Godzilla backwards it's about a benevolent lizard who helps rebuild a city and then moonwalks into the ocean.
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8182 Posts
September 10 2009 00:22 GMT
#71
On September 10 2009 09:13 Grobyc wrote:
Great write-up, but one question:
+ Show Spoiler +
Is it really necessary to pour champagne(?) all over Calms head? Seriously, he has to walk around drenched in alcohol for a while until he gets back home. I'd have to knock someone out if it were me...


it happens in every final ever lol

also the winner's team always throws him up into the air a few times (excluding july I think LOL) and he always gets a bouquet of flowers. its so cheesy lol.
Free Palestine
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
September 11 2009 14:18 GMT
#72
On September 08 2009 09:47 Garnet wrote:
Kwanro cancelled his 5th drone to switch to 4-pool. Did he really prepare for this????

That was no 4pool no matter how you look at it.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
FakeKisser
Profile Joined September 2008
United States159 Posts
September 11 2009 15:02 GMT
#73
Great work on the article. Like you said, this wasn't the most hyped final, but you did a great job of showing why it still matters to Pro SC fans.

I was once a fan of Calm, became disillusioned when he failed to produce results last year, and am now excited to see him finally doing well!
"Every generation needs a revolution" - Thomas Jefferson
Elven_Star
Profile Joined September 2009
5 Posts
September 12 2009 02:39 GMT
#74
hey guys. I'm new here (a WC3 freak :x). I just wanted to say that I'm amazed by the quality of articles here (including this one). I'm honored to be a part of this community. Go easy on me, I'm noob
Elen síla lúmenn omentielmo
infinity2k9
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom2397 Posts
September 20 2009 12:26 GMT
#75
Calm had nothing to practice but ZvZ for ages (ignoring the WCG games against best his last non ZvZ game was like 24 days before) while Jaedong had fantasy in the OSL the very next day, and only a few days after his proleague final matches. He even said himself he wasn't prepared for the matches. Not to take away from Calm's victory but would the same result really have happened if Jaedong had a similar schedule to Calm? Personally i don't think so.
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