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I'm pretty sure it's a self serving role (playing to his own win condition and not ours), but would the town's best interest be in keeping or removing them? I can't decide, maybe I should sleep on it. Well, its obviously in the best interest of the town to keep methods of killing mafia. If there's a lack of information on mafia suspects he will be less useful, if there's far more he will be more useful.
Either way, determining how we should 'manage' the contract killer is 100% dependant on information we don't currently have.
And now, to read ten pages. Brb.
Alright, I just checked the rest of the thread.
New issues:
Without knowing the CK's win condition, we can't precisely determine WHY or HOW he will act. We can, however, look at a few conditions:
1) The CK's game ends when the standard townie/mafia game ends.
2) If the CK dies by drawing too much animosity, he will die because the town/mafia will know who he is.
3) The CK's mode of action provides him with superior information regarding the two sides.
It seems, in my mind, rather PREDICTABO that the CK would act fairly neutrally until he has enough information to precipitate a quick loss for one side by cutting out their most important roles/dropping their KP.
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We shouldn't try to be "managing" the Contract Killer
Here is a compelling argument for the Contract Killer to side with the town
Took you a grand total of 2 lines to start contradicting your own position. You make a case for getting medic protection, but that's pretty much exactly what I said the CK would do: take neutral, defensive actions at the start of the game. If his victory condition is survival, the CK will want to play defensively until he can end the game, because unlike the town or mafia, there is only one of him and he cannot afford to die.
We lose nothing by cooperating with the CK and only have potential gains Apart from giving him information on blue members of town; Don't assume the CK is going to ask for the services of a single blue member of town for the entire game.
Either way, the CK is going to want to side with the side that seems strongest at any period in time. If we're getting smashed, he'll side with mafia in order to assure he doesn't get picked off during night deaths. If mafia's getting smashed he has no incentive to do anything other than contract for medics and play the waiting game.
That's all, however, assuming his objectives are based on survival. IF that's the case, his utility is 100% based on our momentum, so lets focus on quality clue analysis.
Its quite possible his objectives are something like "kill 1 mafia member and kill 1 detective" or something off the wall like that, so 100% basing our strategy on an unknown is risky.
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Way to quote me out of context. let me state it differently. Other people are saying/planning on using the Contract Killer to the town's advantage. I am suggesting that the Contract Killer use the town to his advantage and trying to come up with scenarios where that might be possible. That would be managing his use, yes.
Any off the wall things like that where he has to find certain people/roles to kill, he is even more better off using the town because then he can eventually find a Detective and start doubling his efforts in his search for which roles he needs to kill. Assuming, again, that its roles. I just made up an example of a possible set of goals he might have to accomplish.
All I'm saying is that we can provide all the incentives in the world, but its ultimately how healthy we are as a town that determines just how much incentive we have to offer. A few inactive townies and 0 medics left can't really offer much to a CK. The focus right now with respect to CKs should be identifying mafia that we want killed and getting the ball rolling on cutting their KP. Once their KP drops and the value of mafia hits increase, medic protection will be worth more and CKs will have much less to worry about from stray mafia hits.
If CK demands more services from other blues, then something would seem a bit odd. Why would it seem odd? You have no idea what the CK's goals are. If the CK's goals are role based, getting more role information might be his prime desire. If its survival he can stay on medic.
This is EXACTLY what i was talking about; you can't assume to predict the CK's game perfectly because we don't even know what they're after.
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Targeting inactives is hit and miss. Well, that's kinda a given for the mayoral lynch, isn't it? The only hard piece of data we have which directly co-relates to town success is being used to direct our first move; somehow I don't see that as a terrible move. If people have exams, like I do, that's fine, but at least the vast majority that do have posted something about it.
Unless someone comes out and completely self incriminates them self(and I'm more of the opinion that Quickstriker is a rage filled retard rather than mafia), ALL our choices are hit and miss. The question is HOW hit and miss are our choices at this point?
Basically we've got a few options:
-Clue analysis: on the first day has never been a fantastic method of finding mafia.
-Lynch someone in the three you randomly picked; I see no reason why this is a good course of action unless you know something the town doesn't. I mean, why focus on killing off good active players if we're using a random heuristic to select them?
-Lynch inactives: Personally I think this is kinda weak because of finals, but the list of suspicion is smaller than i'd have anticipated given most of us are doing finals atm, so that concern might be irrelevant. The benefit of keeping only active players, however, has been proven throughout a number of mafia games. If we hit a mafia laying low: awesome. If we hit a townie who wasn't going to be active anyways, the loss is substantially reduced.
So if i weigh up the costs and benefits, it seems like inactive lynching is the only one which does better than random selection at this point. If you've got some secret plan or something, I don't see how you're going to get people to agree to said secret plan unless you tell them what it is, at which point it isn't as secret. Either way, there's something off about your suggestion.
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the only possibility for a mafia kill stemming from a mafia hit is that there are two or more families. From the amount of kills (3) either the amount of mafia hits per family is either
1) not equal (which would be incredibly fucked up)
2) 2 or more.
Which means that:
1) Bockit was killed and reduced the killing power of one of the families to one
2) 1,3,5,etc hits were absorbed by vets or protected by medics.
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Edit via new post:
I assumed 2 families in the statement above but that could very well be wrong. Might be 3, might be more.
In the case of 3, total killing power must be a multiple of 3 given equal hits. This gives us 3/6/9/... base hits. Assuming the mafia kill reduced the killing power by one gives us 3/5/8 if we assume that a mafia family would not go to 0 hits because of a single lost mafia.
Now the dangerous part here is that regardless of the above conclusions:
either:
1) the mafia families are in contact with each other and distributed DT information (but bockit wouldn't have died in such a case)
2) there are multiple mafia infiltrators in whatever town PM circle is being built up.
Also, all these numbers were brought up when i thought three people died. Just realized Nemy died too. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF >: | CK
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Q: Are you notified about the number of hits prevented on you? Or just the fact that there was a hit which was blocked?
If no one else steps up to admit being hit we have a rather odd situation in our hands.
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While I understand that getting more town controlled lynches earlier is statistically positive in town's favor if we have an overall bias towards hitting mafia, I don't think the overall bias is large enough at this point because of a lack of clue information.
JeeJee's posting behavior in this thread has been around 100% consistent with his normally retarded behavior, so that's not an element of concern. Essentially we're running 100% off bockits information.
Lets recap motherfuckers:
1) No one knew about the existance of multiple mafia families, not even the mafia. .
2) Bockit was either trying to defend a fellow mafia or trying to associate himself with someone he thought was green in order to appear normal.
3) Bockit didn't know he was going to die that night, didn't think it was possible for him to die. Would he defend another mafia member so early, or was he just settling into his behind the scenes roll?
I dunno. These are super subjective questions. If someone can work at least 1 set of clues to JeeJee, that would be a start, but I haven't seen any proper analysis on it.
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All of the above is based on what we can currently determine. I assumed that mafia didn't know about each other because one of their numbers ended up dying and I assumed that bockit didn't know he was going to die.
It is possible that the above assumptions are false, but I think the gain for killing off a mafia on the first night provides far less confusion and benefits for the mafia to work with than is reasonable to assume they knew and acted anyways. Where Jee Jee is concerned, please view the following video, because we used to link it repeatedly to make fun of him.
+ Show Spoiler +
Haven't really seen anything else which directly incriminates him.
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JeeJee
PM me the site you use to generate those ridiculous blocks of text.
In other news my last exam is thursday :D.
if JeeJee gets lynched and flips Green/Blue Im probably gonna just stop playing. : (. This is an incredibly stupid move, and I suggest people listen to the general "this is retarded" sentiment regarding the bandwagon forming behind JeeJee. Please rethink your votes.
I personally think ver's activity is the most suspicious item we have to work with, and his name can be fit to pretty much half the clues. I'ma vote for him and I suggest that if you're going to bandwagon like a bunch of retards that you do so too. Otherwise, post reasoning and discuss options here.
And back to studying.
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I'm guessing mafia would have known that there could have been two mafia families when they figured out they had a small group (5-6 mafia?) and low KP (2-3 probably). That's probably true, but I guess they might have thought that there are like 8 contract killers or something. Either way, if they shared name lists before the first night hits, then bockit's death is incredibly unlikely. Regardless of what each family knew, I find it incredibly hard to believe that bockit knew he was going to die and set himself up accordingly.
Man, studying is not as fun as mafia.
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The only reason to play it cool when someone's trying to lynch you is because you hope that you have people in the list that can switch off at the last moment, or because you're hoping you'll get pitied and detectives will check you during the night. The other option, dying to give the town information, isn't one you'll accept a DEATH for, since if you knew you were innocent prior to being killed you'd be able to provide stronger clue links elsewhere or role-call at the last minute.
So either ver's mafia or a mafia godfather trying to get a circle of trust started.
Either way, if ver pops up red tomorrow and I'm right, we're going to have a LOT of leads to go after because of how people are reacting to this.
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Oh, there's also the possibility that this is somehow linked to CK activity too, but I have no idea if that's plausible or likely.
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What kinda idiot says "oh woe is me, thanks for the game, learn from your mistakes!" and expects to be saved?
You. Right now. Unless you want to die, in which case you're hurting whatever side you're on.
Thanks for making this analysis jokishly easy.
1. Any smart DT wouldn't bother to waste a check on someone who so obviously going to die and who's role will be revealed in a matter of posts. Please do pray that the DT(s) left in this game are not bubbling buffoons. If you DONT get killed. Durr, you're a good player, yet you magically forgot how to read? Interesting.
2. I don't expect any one to change their votes. Firstly, because when I have indeed defended myself, no one even bothered to respond. This tells me mafia, along with townies, have decided to ignore me. Cool beans. Secondly, I don't know many of you. This is my third game and the most attention I've received, period. Outside of ace, ver, and caller in past games, I haven't spoken to 90% of you all--- and you expect me to be capable of some grand coalition building escapade? I mean, I think highly of myself....but damn. So you expect to die? Your defense has been, for the large part, a joke. Multiple people have acknowledged this.
Lastly, why would I role call, period, even if I wasn't going to be lynched? There are multiple players with the same role-- how is there any way to verify I am telling the truth short of a DT check (which I already said is not going to happen) or my death? That's just stupid and unnecessary. Because the town has a limited amount of blue roles and even if you out yourself to the mafia by claiming DT or some shit, you will have saved the town a wasted lynch if you are innocent. If you were the godfather and did get checked, the DT now believes in you and you can act as his mouthpiece or form a circle of townie trust.
This is REALLY obvious, REALLY basic stuff. You aren't a bad player. Stop playing the dumb card because its obvious that it shouldn't even be in your fucking deck.
I mean seriously, after that last post i'm 100% certain you're mafia and you're going to try to get a pal to switch off to Quickstriker and get yourself rolechecked. Or were, until i made it lethal for someone to try.
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Its pretty simple. Until I noted that you were a better target than JeeJee, you weren't going to be lynched. Afterwards you were a grand total of ONE VOTE ahead of the other lynch target, and largely remain to be. If you had someone on your list switch to QS, everything i described would have happened. Now that doing so would reveal quite obviously that you're mafia and that your list-switcher are mafia, you won't do it to minimize the damage.
You don't expect to survive NOW because I've pinned you to the wall. At this point you're a butterfly in a pin box, and when night rolls around and your red bleeds out this won't matter. But prior to said pinning, you were obviously dancing around trying to tell the other bees where the honey was at.
I don't expect you to survive this lynch now either, and its pretty ridiculous that your longest and most content filled posts are only now that I've essentially assured that you die. Your prior defenses were obviously on the level of jokes which IS WHY NO ONE BOTHERED TEARING THEM DOWN. You knew this too. You admitted that you're a joke and just spamming around now, yet here you are replying seriously to me.
All I can say is that when you turn out to be red, I'm going to have myself a good strut for the day.
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L lol.... Is it really worth 2-3 mafia changing votes to save her if it would expose them all? If the flip was performed successfully:
1) Versatile does not die. Gets DT checked.
2) DTs get whatever fake role she picked, trust her.
3) Via a circle of trust, she can avoid future lynches.
This really isn't hard to see, and yet the fact that you two are playing at retard so well and so hard means that you're going to look REALLY bad when she flips red.
And as long as you promise to take a few dicks in the ass when I come up green/blue you cuntastical piece of shyt, I'm happy with that. Angry godfathers on day 2. Such a pity.
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And yeah, with the amount of people who have yet to vote, a group of mafia could easily have switched the result of this lynch, and when ver turns godfather blue they look like saints that saved the down from a costly dt/medic/whatever death.
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Well, fuck.
I was pretty sure that would not happen.
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No, but seriously, why would you play vet like that when there are 2 mafia families and you had been marked as suspicious because of activity. Makes no fucking sense.
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I've mentioned briefly that his arguments just don't really fit right, and this was before Ver was lynched. I don't see how calling out the shadiest defense I've ever seen is 'not fitting right'. But feel free to PM me why you think it was forced.
In retrospect with the blue popping up it looks different, but without that knowledge the way versatile was playing compared to previous games and compared to other players was obviously off to the point of making her the number 1 candidate by far.
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Showtime, what exactly did we have to go on besides a snide remark between her and ace and JeeJee being mentioned in a PM? I mean, I'd have been fine if someone else put a solid case together against someone else, but no one really did. All I really saw was a very weak case against JeeJee and a better target in versatile and even in retrospect I think it was fair to call her out like i did.
Also: Exams are done for me :D
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I am going to bold and enumerate the odd phrasings in the day post for easier reference in the future:
The town dispersed once more, fleeing for the safety. 1. Some went to their homes, others to places they believed to be safe. Everyone thought they were safe, the clock had struck 2, and no sounds were yet to be heard, all was clear this night.
Repetition of safe, potentially 2 o'clock are non clues
With that in mind, Rage and truthbringer left the bar they had been hiding in. Rage walked down the street, gun in hand, with truthbringer following closely behind. As rage turned onto the block in which he lived, he heard a 2. grunt from behind him, he turned and leveling his gun, saw 3. a garrote wire around Truthbringers neck, and a figure standing closely behind him. He darted to the side to get a better shot, only 4. to feel something slam into the back of his left leg, dropping him to the ground, as he turned his head to the side, he caught a quick glimpse of a man swinging a long object, caving rage head in. 5. Quickly thereafter truthbringer head rolled across the sidewalk. 2. Grunt: Manly type man? Rugged? Warcraft 3 grunt? Orc? Can't speak? 3. Garrote wire: Fairly brutal, choking -> leads to 5. Decapitation 4. Long object kneecaps, then crushes rage's skull.
2 mafia here. Choking Grunt and Head Caver
Across town, Fakesteve[tpr], amber[light], and infundibulum were staked out inside fakesteve’s house. The three had each taken up guard at different points in the house to prevent being hit. Fakesteve was in the living room, behind a couch, gun pointed at the largest window, waiting for mafia to attempt to enter. Amber[light] was at the top of the stairs with a rifle aimed at the front door, and Infundibulum had a shotgun aimed at the backdoor. The three waited in silence, for any sound of an attack. Amber[light] was the first to hear a sound, and slowly turning, he heard a creaking sound from a room down the hall. Cautiously he investigated, and slid into the room. He saw Fakesteve’s computer on, which he knew had been turned off hours earlier, so he moved around the room, looking for signs of entry. 6. As he passed the desk he noticed a weird phrase on the screen. As amber[light] looked down from the computer, he noticed a figure under the desk, and a metal glint in his hand. Two silent shots later, amber[light] collapsed to the ground, and the man fired another shot into the body’s head for good measure.
6. Incomprehensible strikes again with 3 shots. They were silent and he takes precautions by shooting the head. Professional? Safe?
This is probably the candidate we have the most information on, and I think we can pull something out of incomprehensible phrase since its likely to be directly related to someone's name, profile or signature.
Infundibulum heard a thud from upstairs, and slowly started to back up, moving for the staircase to check on his friend. As he turned to the staircase, he noticed a man 7. staring at him from the kitchen, he moved forward weapon in hand, and charged, and let a shot fire. The cupboards splintered open, and the man ducked to the side, and 8 .flew his arm out to the side waving an object at Infundibulum, with a wicked smile on his face. As the man hit the floor, infundibulum reloaded, then moving forward again, 9. slipped on the debris on the ground, and dropped his gun, which hit the ground and fired, shredding Infundibulum’s chest.
7. Alright, so the guy is patient, or is a stalker of some sort. Maybe a link to a picture in which the person is staring or an emoticon with large eyes.
8. Man waves some fucking object?
9. Trips and falls.
8. & 9. Lead me to believe that Stalker's weapon is something which can trip people, and that it can be waved. I was thinking it was ball bearings or something originally but that can't really be waved. I'd like to hear other opinions on this one because I think there's a lot of potential here.
Fakesteve[tpr] never had a chance to retaliate; he turned towards the kitchen at the sound of 10. shotgun fire, only to be enveloped in a black shroud. He felt an object glide through his shoulder and down to his heart, and something probe his jacket pockets before the void took him.
10. Alright, we have a: -shotgun -shroud-> potentially linked to the fact that he just got shotgunned, or maybe his face was bagged -something that can cut through a shoulderblade straight to the heart (which would be fucking difficult with a conventional weapon) -and the guy fucking robs him. Seems like a highway robber type.
Three blocks away, Ace was gathering his things, and then lifting a hood over his head, he left his house, in search of clues towards the mafia hidden in the town. As he left his house, he saw [b 11. ]a man, eyes wide open, shakily level a machine gun. Moment’s later ace was dead.
11. Wide eyes. shaky hands. An addict? A sugar high? Excitable? Sick?
Showtime! and laxercannon headed for the gunshots, hoping to be able to save whomever they could. As they ran, they saw a man 12. hiccupping and swaying moving towards them. Showtime moved to see if he was ok, and moved his hands to steady him, the next thing Showtime! knew, he had a knife stuck in his chest. Laxercannon turned, and drawing a knife of his own 13. he moved to attack the man, only to stop dead, as an arrow pierced his neck. As laxercannon fell, he saw a man stepping out of a nearby alley. 12. Drunk with a knife. Hobo? Someone drinking in their profile picture? Reference to alcohol? 13. Archer from the dark. Arrows and colour juxtaposed. Seems accurate, hides in alleys: maybe someone down on his luck?
[/b]
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Gotta say that the shaking hands and fear DO match up pretty well.
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I find it hilarious that the majority of people who have voted are incredibly inactive in this thread.
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Why the fuck do we have a blog entry in the middle of our game of mafia?
Why the fuck is that blog entry the majority of the activity in the past ... like 3 hours?
Goddamit.
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We can't just decide to continue to be disorganized and hope for chance to win this game; we're already behind. I think this is really important.
ITS FUCKING DAYTIME, AND WE HAVE A BUNCH OF CLUES STARING US IN THE FACE AND NO ONE'S PRESENTING ANALYSIS. I'm pretty goddam terrible at it, so I decided to highlight clues and brainstorm around them, yet besides for me and one other player there's ZERO clue discussion going on and activity is near zero.
Like, I'm ANGRY about this. We asked for people to only sign up if they'd have time. I CHECKED THIS FUCKING THREAD WHILE I WAS IN THE EXAM ROOM WRITING A FINAL (lol laptops) and other people have the balls to vote and never post here? I mean shit, either there are some AWESOME underground PM rings going down or the town is fucked.
Can we get inactive players booted out? Can we replace them with people who actually want to play?
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Oh wow. Rage's killer was Fakesteve.
Its so simple, and yet fits so well. His location is valhalla, so he's a 'viking' which explains the brutality. His weapon is his fucking guitar.
And the best part? He is probably a vigilante from the way the day 2 clues were set out.
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The long object: Guitar. The caving in of heads: Viking.
This is airtight. I haven't seen a single other profile point towards something even remotely as directly as this has.
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And this, folks, is why you need multiple clues to point to someone before pointing the finger:
Fakesteve is dead and Rage was the vigilante.
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Also: I am dumb
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what good is that when he can be a mafia himself, What good is the role in general? I was under the impression that we need him to double lynch, but according to the main page there's no such requirement. Mayor is basically a townie with 3 votes who picks the first day lynch. We don't really lose anything by killing him.
By lynching Qatol, we will have more information gained than from lynching any other suspects. Well, what exactly does it tell us. I keep hearing people saying "we'll know more when we kill XYZ", but then no one actually explains that information.
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There was NO logic in hitting Ace. I exchanged a couple PMs with Ace just before he died where I said I'm not really suspicious of him, but actually I was sure he's not Mafia (I know his style somewhat myself, and NO way did that warrant a hit). Lynching QS over Qatol was the icing on the cake. The only positive thing we can find from it, is to look at his hidden supporters (not OPEN supporters, but people who tried to sway the vote away from him WITHOUT directly supporting him in the process), but that's about it.
Well, I think you're smashing caller a bit too hard. His move was somewhat reasonable given the way ace was playing and the accusations from Versatile who flipped green. That said, caller could have been mafia and used the hit to conceal himself, but if no clues stick to him tomorrow, we can assume he is indeed blue. That said, the Uff Da clumsy killer clue is a pretty solid link to Qatol, but I'm not sure exactly what we gain by killing him immediately, given that we can force his 3 votes to pad a votelist for someone the town agrees upon, and if he disagrees we simply move to lynch him. I'm around 90% certain Qatol is mafia at this point, so only a 100% sure kill would dissuade me.
If the only person we can agree upon is Qatol, which is likely, we can just hang him, but tomorrow our DTs are going to come out or find a mouthpiece, and we might have a number of cluechecked 100% certain mafia to kill.
Either way, people who have been PMing Qatol role information need to stop, and the medics need to pick their own targets to protect.
Ver: you might have a point about the rivalry between families, especially with the town this weak, but I think there are too many assumptions in your analysis. For one, you assume that the opposing team recognizes Qatol as the head of a mafia family. Second you assume that the families are content with their situation regarding the town and aren't working together. Third you ignore the CKs in your mafia family size analysis. The CKs, from my analysis at the outset, are likely going to be allied with the mafia at this point because of their strength relative to ours, but which family? Would they have contacted Qatol? Would he have told them he was mafia? Unlikely given that we've seen a number of people obviously fishing in PMs.
Also: Can someone explain why people are balls out for LordWeird?
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Then it seems there's a piece of the puzzle missing. Do anyone know what pages those pieces of information were on? Would save me a lot of time :o.
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@L: Here are the posts I mentioned in response to your question Thanks, I was under the impression that the clue check was for how incomprehensible Uff Da was, but I wanted to be sure. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
The LordWeird connection seems a bit trivial, but that's just me.
@ L: Mafia wouldn't be working together if they knew each other/suspected each other. It doesn't work. Since they know they can be killed any time by the other opposing team, you'd pretty much have to kill them if you know them. I only like to assume things when the individual axiomic assumptions have merit. In the current instance, even if ver is right and we're dealing with 15 mafia players with a kp of 6 combined, if mafia cannibalize each other early, they will lose. There is no way of winning the game if mafia start hitting each other.
Your conclusion rests on an assumption which cannot be the case, so I can't agree with your argumentation.
Qatol and JeeJee are mafia I honestly don't think JeeJee is mafia and I think you've improperly rushed to conclusions about him. Qatol very well might be, however.
I could be wrong; I have been before.
Our only confirmed mafia -> player behavioral connection was bockit deflecting attention from retardstriker, so mafia are obviously throwing up red herrings to keep us wasting time. I was one of the first people to say so, but no one really listened to that. Our only other connection was the proven innocent versatile calling out ace, and THAT was false as well. So our support/condemn information really hasn't payed off for us yet, so I'd caution against using it as a key piece of information in getting someone hung.
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What???? Are you trying to SOUND smart? Not really, but I get that a lot.
How is there no way of winning the game if mafia hit each other? Durr, the town wins instantly and the mafia die. From their perspective THEY CANNOT WIN if they start killing each other. That means they WON'T. You, however, have assumed that mafia will not trade information because that will automatically lead to such killing and I've said that's not the case because its not a smart move from either mafia team to start shit with the other.
Basically it works like this: If both mafia teams know each other on day 1 you've stated that they will hit each other immediately. If that's the case, the town wins almost instantly: 6 mafia die the first day, which represents up to half of the total mafia on the game. It isn't favorable for either mafia team to move against the other until the town is out of the way. Since that's the case, and you've assumed the opposite, I can't agree with your conclusion.
Both mafia families can't work together since they would be forced to kill each other if they ever got the feeling anyone was a member of the other mafia family. See, they're forced to kill each other regardless near the end of the game, but while the town represents a larger threat than the other team, they have more incentive to work together, because otherwise NEITHER OF THEM have the possibility of winning. If both families share information, both families are in the same position regarding information the other team has. Neither family gains a net advantage against the other. Since they won't be killing off opposing mafia, they maximize their anti-town kp and increase their collective chances against the town, so mafia makes a NET GAIN in their chances if they share information. Not only CAN the mafia work together, but its in their favor if they do. Assuming they aren't taking the best action they can is somewhat wishful thinking.
This is really simple logic. Take a three player free for all in your favorite RTS: its ALWAYS in the best interest of the two weaker players to team up to knock down the stronger player, because 1) if they attack each other instead, the stronger player's advantage over them increases and 2) if one allies with the stronger player, his position relative to the stronger player is unchanged after they wipe out the third party, putting him at a disadvantage.
I hope that clears up any misunderstanding you had regarding my logic.
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I'll be rather honest, you're rambling and I've already addressed all your points.
I'm going to sleep.
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I don't see how anyone can be voting for someone other than Qatol when he openly admits to being mafia.
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Wow, what the hell. A 4 hour day, the voting is about to close and I'm accused? That's a spicy meatball.
Gimme a bit to read over what's going on.
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save the cheerleader, save the world. No one likes heroes.
Get off the stage.
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Most of those were mafia going "lol where we setting up IRC"
"no we're using aim"
"lol nvm, we found the other team, now we use irc"
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Well, I think we need more pictures.
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You realize i spent the vast majority of the time referring to ver instead of versatile, and ver WAS their godfather right? That was intentional and the scene of quite a lot of hilariousness in our IRC chat between me and qatol.
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Actually yours seems quite a bit easier than LTTs had the game gone the distance.
The amount of spicy meatballs in this game made for a fun, tasty treat.
because I saved your ass Oh please. I started up a three page long mans train on versatile.
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That's because I didn't really follow up on it until I saw Ace and Her get into a spat.
Once i saw the binaries of her/ace + ace/you i figured we could set up at least 2 days worth of lynches off her poor play, and that's when I started 'forcing' it.
Edit: Oh, I see. Ver. You're a clever one.
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Hey, i'm glad so many people knew so many mafia on day 1-2 and did nothing about it.
Either the entire town side had collective aneurysms or a bunch of people are trying to get some unwarranted post game bragging in.
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I think the best possible suggestion for our games would be to remove the office of mayor and just add more interesting blue roles.
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mayor was only in this game to stimulate day one posting haha You're such a tricky one
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Malongo,
if the town had another 3 active people with their heads out of their asses, the votes on day 2, 3 and 4 would have been different and we wouldn't have been able to pull a 2 mafia lynch and plop it onto 2 townies AND cut the double lynch. If the town didn't have multiple members trying to incriminate themselves by posting like retards and refusing to explain their wild accusations, voting would have been different too. Both versatile and ace played very poorly during day 2 which gave us a huge opening which we capitalized on.
The reason why it seems like things were so lopsided is because the vast majority of blues stuck their necks out and got raped. There were ZERO vigi hits on mafia, ZERO CK hits on mafia, a late start to double lynching and incredibly poor accuracy from town. Mafia teams were 5 people each: if you double lynched us correctly on that day 5 post, we would have dropped to 4kp, and been largely fucked if you followed that up with another successful double lynch. Needed more time to smoke out mafia? Doesn't seem like it due to all of these "lol i knew 3 mafia on day 2" posts we're getting.
Additionally, Qatol and I talked about having to kill the other family the moment he told me he called out Ver. When I was arguing that mafia would work together despite having to kill each other at the end, I wasn't talking out of my ass. I was actually giving you the exact reason why it would happen regardless of the end rules. Mafia having to kill each other at the end is irrelevant if they recognize what mafia have in prior games: More days means more clues. More clues means you can't hide forever. You NEED the other mafia's killing power to chop the town down to size.
I mean, go ahead and look at what happened each day as you listed it. Each were good plays by us and terrible plays by the town. Should we lose for playing near perfectly? Should we lose because the vast majority of your players decided to play footsie in PMs and got raped for it? According to you, the town should have had an equal chance to win despite a grand total of 4 members of the entire town actually putting in meaningful work. Sorry but that's not balance.
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Get your fucking ego out if you want to discuss balance, should we lose? wtf? Rofl.
If this game was balanced, the team that performed better should win. Correct? Town played horribly. Mafia played near perfectly. Mafia should win under those circumstances, and they did.
I think you need to take a step back, drink a cold one and relax before making another post here.
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Thats exactly the point. You are still arguing who played better look at your arguments. Im arguing about balance. That we played better or not is not a matter of argument. Town played like complete shit, we did not.
Maybe you should learn how an argument is formed before telling me what my argument is. Feel free to separate a premise from a conclusion and read my posts again.
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seems like its part of this argument... :D. No shit. Its a premise. Its also a correct premise. However attacking a premise doesn't mean you've killed the conclusion, especially if your critique is horrendously poor. So no, i'm not arguing that we played better: that's fucking obvious. I'm making an argument about the balance of the game. Feel free to read what I responded to, because it seems like you don't even know what you're talking about at this point.
Hey sherlock! so the game is balanced because the side that played best won? oops you have a logic problem right there. If a team played better than the other and won doesnt imply that the game is balanced. Learn some logic its not Balanced<=>Better team win. Its obvious that the better team can win and the game still be imba. Just to make you think a bit.
I never claimed that the game is automatically balanced because the better team won. The game would be balanced if the better team won every time regardless of which side they were on. I said that the fact that the better team won is evidence pointing towards the fact that the game was balanced. I picked out the point in time that you were referencing, day 5, at which point the town was completely outplayed and noted that if the town should have been close to death if the better team should win the game. A number of other players made the same point.
But here's a better question for you: Do you believe town played better than us? Provide proof to dismantle that premise of mine. If you can't, then you need to do what I originally suggested and bring your frame of reference from the doomed day 5 perspective to the day 0 perspective and see how town could have done better. You need to do this because my statement about who should win from day 5 forward would stand pretty clear: at that point town was grossly outplayed.
Feel free to look at what town players of higher stature have been saying. Read Ace and Camilto's positions.
Again, go back to the start and pretend the town didn't shoot itself in the foot multiple times a day.
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L you guys didn't play it perfectly man. Near perfect =/= perfect. Every lynch, area of discussion and pretty much every pm ring was under our control. Some things could have been better, but very few.
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They were under your control because town sucked. Exactly. If the town wasn't so terrible the game would have been very different, which is exactly why I said that you can't judge the balance of the setup by the result. Don't get me wrong, when I say perfect play I mean that pretty much everything fell into place as we wanted, not that we're somehow magic mafia gods. Please examine my posts in the context of a disagreement about balance, thanks.
: )
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